JakeOrion
Topic Author
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70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:17 am

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1444771

What strikes me as the underlying issue is its against the law for you to not water your own lawn? You don't have the right to do whatever you want to your own property?

Seriously, WTF?
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
ltbewr
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:27 am

Many communities in the USA have laws requiring to keep your property reasonably maintained as to it's landscaping, property and building appearance and not for example operating a junkyard in your yard. Such laws exist to protect the quality of life and property values in the community or neighborhood. I would note that the police officer was excessive in his process and they have been put into the preliminary stages of the disciplinary process. Apparently this woman had a financial problem limiting her ability to pay for the water to keep her lawn in a reasonable level of maintenance and instead of arresting her, they should have arranged some help for her to afford the help she needed. Now we have a old woman frightened of the police.
 
desertjets
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering La

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:28 am

Quoting JakeOrion (Thread starter):
What strikes me as the underlying issue is its against the law for you to not water your own lawn? You don't have the right to do whatever you want to your own property?

In some communities there are standards that you need to maintain (in neighborhoods w/ homeowner's associations). Which usually means keeping your landscaping alive and such. But from the looks of her house I doubt she lives in one of those places.

So yeah, her yard looks like crap, and yes she could have put down some gravel or tear up the old turf.... either way it would look better than dead grass. But on the flipside isn't Utah in the midst of a drought.... (probably why her lawn is dead), so isn't she saving water by not putting it on her dead lawn???




Lastly... and on topic. Somehow I think the officer might have overreacted a tad, especially over a rather simple ticket. Perhaps waited for another officer to arrive to take the time to talk it out with the old lady.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
copaair737
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:30 am

Lawns have no place in Utah anyway. They should move to Xeroscaping, grow some of the native plants like cacti, ocotillos, etc.

I applaud the justice system on this one though. A great show of force.
Nice to see one law enforcement agency gets it right.
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AA787823
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:39 am

It could very well be, if there are city ordinaces for maintaining your property then it could be against the law. My guess is she got several warnings first before the arrest, so no sympathy. The city that I grew up in Saratoga, California my parents got a complaint from the neighbors (via city hall) after my dads "airport car" (a 1978 Ford Pinto) got a little tired looking. The neighbors complained that the car devalued the neighborhood and made it look cheap.
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:43 am

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 4):
The neighbors complained that the car devalued the neighborhood and made it look cheap.

Fcuk the neighbours!

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
diamond
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 4:56 am

" ... arrested for refusing to give a policeman her name when he tried writing her a ticket ... "

She wasn't arrested for failing to water the lawn, even though the article was incorrectly titled that way.

The lawn does look like a fire hazard!
Blank.
 
Halcyon
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:01 am

Quoting Diamond (Reply 6):

Correct.

However, police where I am from know how to handle situations involving older people, and this officer overreacted. The first step is to try to reason with the person. Attempting to handcuff the lady was over the line, and certainly not needed. I'm glad that the department saw this too, and acted accordingly.
 
starrion
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:05 am

The officer over-reacted, then scared and injured the woman. Dragging her to jail was not the action of a well trained officer. Hence his being sent home, and the disciplinary action being started. I'm glad the chief recognized that the officer was out of line.

Hopefully the legal settlement will be quick and reasonable. I would not want to put this case in front of a jury.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
diamond
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:11 am

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 7):
and this officer overreacted



Quoting Starrion (Reply 8):
The officer over-reacted, then scared and injured the woman

I totally agree. You'd think the policeman would have more confidence him himself, and less need to abuse his authority.
Blank.
 
Halcyon
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting Diamond (Reply 9):

Some people's kids, eh?  Wink And I also agree that the lawn would burn quite well. I doubt she lit firecrackers in it, that's for sure.
 
jafa39
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:33 am

Odd but in the Uk, when lawns look like that (due to weather) you'd get arrested if you DID water it....only in America eh?

Bush will be invading New Zealand next to get our water to ensure property values don't fall in the land of the free....good grief Snoopy!
We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
 
learpilot
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 4):
The city that I grew up in Saratoga, California my parents got a complaint from the neighbors (via city hall) after my dads "airport car" (a 1978 Ford Pinto) got a little tired looking. The neighbors complained that the car devalued the neighborhood and made it look cheap.

That's becoming more and more of a problem in the U.S.; running to the authorities for the most insignificant crap instead of confronting the problems directly. Were they so afraid of your dad that they couldn't stop by and voice their concerns directly to him and not have to run to the city authorities?

Bunch of damn pu$$ies we're becoming.
Heed our warnings or your future will be underpant free!
 
JakeOrion
Topic Author
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting Diamond (Reply 6):

Bah, should have titled it differently, but was on the tail end of my lunch break when I found the article.

And about the communities ordinance, I do see the sense and logic in it, even though I don't find it appealing. Oh well, majority > minority (supposedly.)
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:15 am

Isn't the region where the woman lives a desert area anyway? So lawn would be totally out of place and a waste of water. IMO, the proper vegetation should be desert plants like cacti and other succulents.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
copaair737
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:17 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 14):


Isn't the region where the woman lives a desert area anyway? So lawn would be totally out of place and a waste of water. IMO, the proper vegetation should be desert plants like cacti and other succulents.

Bingo.
That's what I said in an earlier reply.
Lawns are an English thing. They look nice, but they are hardly worth putting the strain on the West's fragile water reserves.
Besides, a desert front yard thing is cool. My dad was big into that, so am I. It looks cool.
You'd be amazed what sorts of things could grow in that climate too. 6 ft. tall Chollas for example with stunning purple flowers.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
AA787823
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:19 am

Quoting Learpilot (Reply 12):
Were they so afraid of your dad that they couldn't stop by and voice their concerns directly to him and not have to run to the city authorities?

Because they knew he would tell them to go F**K themselves. After the complaint, he wound up buying a Toyota Celica, like 3 months later. The Pinto REALLY did die.
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
 
S12PPL
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:20 am

I agree that the police overreacted...But this statement from her leaves me shaking my head. To me, this is an attempt to play up the situation to make her sound like she was beaten. She wasn't beaten. It sounds like she lost her balance:

Quote:
"Don't ever say no when the police tell you do to something. You better do what they tell you no matter what, even if you don't have anybody to help you. You've got to do what they tell you or they will hurt you."

I'm sorry...But to me this is over the top on her part. This whole thing is dumb, from the police, to her overreaction after being released from jail. She has every right to be upset she was arrested...But to make statements like the above is just over the top.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:40 am

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 16):
Quoting Learpilot (Reply 12):
Were they so afraid of your dad that they couldn't stop by and voice their concerns directly to him and not have to run to the city authorities?

Because they knew he would tell them to go F**K themselves. After the complaint, he wound up buying a Toyota Celica, like 3 months later. The Pinto REALLY did die.

Why should the neighbours care how old my car is? It is not my job to increase my neighbour's property prices.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
AirCop
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:41 am

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 7):
However, police where I am from know how to handle situations involving older people, and this officer overreacted.

No doubt this officer over-reacted, nice to see the good folks of Orem, Utah has a police department that as the time and resources to respond to such a call. Isn't this the type of concern for the building code-enforcement people.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
Lawns have no place in Utah anyway. They should move to Xeroscaping, grow some of the native plants like cacti, ocotillos, etc.

Bingo..
 
AA787823
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:54 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
It is not my job to increase my neighbour's property prices.

Ahhh not true..If you live in a community with certain standards (especially if a Homeowners Association is present) you agree to maintain your property to a certain standard. If your house looks like crap, and I try and sell mine, it could scare off buyers who dont want to live next to an ugly dump.

In my parents current neighborhood a guy painted his house purple and black. He got a fine from the HOA, and when he refused to pay a lien was placed on his property. Still refuse to pay? Could eventually forclose on the property. Unless you are Grizzly Adams and live 300 miles away from anyone, you have certain standards to adhear to.
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:01 am

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 20):
In my parents current neighborhood a guy painted his house purple and black. He got a fine from the HOA, and when he refused to pay a lien was placed on his property. Still refuse to pay? Could eventually forclose on the property. Unless you are Grizzly Adams and live 300 miles away from anyone, you have certain standards to adhear to.

Not here. As long as I don't own a property shared with others (e.g. an apartment in a building of apartments owned by other people) and I don't break e.g. enviromental laws (like stacking old cars leaking oil) or directly affect my neighbours (e.g. through noise, smells, building too close to the border of my property and this way cutting e.g. the neighbours off the sunlight), I can do whatever I want on my own land.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
AirCop
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 20):
If you live in a community with certain standards (especially if a Homeowners Association is present) you agree to maintain your property to a certain standard.

True; but show me in any CCR from a Homeowners Association, where it states in black and white that the duty of the HOA to to increase property values. Unfortunately some board members and management companies take their duties much too seriously.
 
AA787823
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:54 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 22):
True; but show me in any CCR from a Homeowners Association, where it states in black and white that the duty of the HOA to to increase property values. Unfortunately some board members and management companies take their duties much too seriously.

It may not state it in black and white print. But with the rules and regulations stated within for "maintaining your property to certain standards", will in turn help maintain/increase property values by keeping the overall community to be in a well kept appealing overall condition.

I saw the pictures of that ladies (the one who got arrested). Her house is an eyesore and if I lived next to it I would complain too.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 23):
Her house is an eyesore and if I lived next to it I would complain too.

If you don't like it, move away.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering La

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 20):
Ahhh not true..If you live in a community with certain standards (especially if a Homeowners Association is present) you agree to maintain your property to a certain standard.

Property, yes...car, no. As long as the car is in running order and properly registered, it doesn't matter whether or not it's ugly. (If it's up on blocks, has flat or missing tires, broken windows, etc, then that's a different story.) There was a town in CT where the local government tried to tell people they couldn't park pickup trucks in their driveway, because they presented the wrong image for the upscale town. I believe a judge tossed it.

Homeowner's Associations are fine in their place, but they can go overboard. There was a case a few years ago in Tampa where a homeowner had neglected a few hundred dollars worth of repairs needed to a chimney....because his daughter was in the hospital with a severe illness. The HA had the repairs done and slapped a lien on the house, and then tried to have it auctioned to pay the lien. Fortunately a judge quashed the auction just hours before he would have lost the house. The directors of the HA were voted out in the next election, but I believe he had already sold the house and moved. I know I would have if I lived in that area - some neighbors.
 
AA787823
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:50 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 24):
If you don't like it, move away.

Jan

Wrong, The HOA will fix the problem, bill her. If she refuses to pay a lien will be placed on the house, and she will ultimately be thrown out on her arse.
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
 
exFATboy
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 9:59 am

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 26):
Wrong, The HOA will fix the problem, bill her. If she refuses to pay a lien will be placed on the house, and she will ultimately be thrown out on her arse.

Not necessarily - many places, particularly in the West, don't have HOAs, and even if they do, in many parts of the US HOAs don't have liening powers.

Besides, do you really want to see a 70 year old woman thrown out of her home because there's a drought and she can't afford to water the lawn? I'd think a better solution would be for the neighbors to pitch in a few bucks a month each to help out with the water bill, or help her xeriscape the front yard, if the zoning laws and HOA (if there is one) permit.
 
alfa75
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:59 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 3):
Lawns have no place in Utah anyway. They should move to Xeroscaping, grow some of the native plants like cacti, ocotillos, etc.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bigthumbsup 

That is the real issue. Utah is a desert, her yard should be dirt with no grass. That part of the country has water shoutage problems and they have laws on the books to make people water their lawn. What has this country come to?  banghead 

I have got to move to another country.
The best things in life aren't things!
 
greasespot
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:12 am

HOA and community standards are why I do not live in the suburbs nor will I ever....I lover thechracter of the inner core of the city....no two housed on my street re thesame and it is great....

There is no chance that I would arrest this lady...I would exercise my police discretion powers and not arrest....I am not a by-law officer andwill not enforce bullshit ordinances. I do not work for any HOA...If they want something done they can do it through the civil court..

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:52 pm

Interesting thread, this is why many people live in apartments  Wink
 
Mir
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:17 pm

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 20):
If you live in a community with certain standards (especially if a Homeowners Association is present) you agree to maintain your property to a certain standard.

You're assuming that that was the case here. There is no mention of a Homeowners Association, or community standards apart from the city ordinance (which is idiotic to being with - as has been stated, you're going to force people to water their lawns in the desert, where water is a scarce resource).

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
skidmarks
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:33 pm

Ah, such a life in the land of the free. A place to grow old in security and safety, a place where your home is your place of refuge and comfort.

Such a fine example of community policing you'll see anywhere in the world.

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
zak
Posts: 1926
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:37 pm

it always strikes me and suprises me as to which extend certain regulations are enforced in the u.s..
to me, its logical that, as long as i adhere to environmental laws etc, i can do whatever i want on MY PROPERTY. yet in the u.s., where many people argue that a public healthcare system is like living in communism, people seem to have laws and community rules that fiddle with your daily life more than what i know about say, eastern europes past.
the land of the free, where you will have to water your own lawn or pay fines, way to go, hypocrisy!
10=2
 
Pyrex
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 6:57 pm

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 4):
The neighbors complained that the car devalued the neighborhood and made it look cheap.

Sounds like the kind of place where you neighbours start bitching if you don't decorate your house over Christmas.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
Banco
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 7:23 pm

Explain something to me:

How can a Homeowner Association impose standards on someone who already owns the property? If you own the freehold, how can they legally have any sway over the property beyond health and hygiene minimums? I don't understand, either you own it or you don't.  confused 
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:47 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 29):
HOA and community standards are why I do not live in the suburbs nor will I ever....I lover thechracter of the inner core of the city....no two housed on my street re thesame and it is great....

There is no chance that I would arrest this lady...I would exercise my police discretion powers and not arrest....I am not a by-law officer andwill not enforce bullshit ordinances. I do not work for any HOA...If they want something done they can do it through the civil court..

GS

Greasespot,

I'm originally a city boy, living in a inner city, but I live now in a small village in the countryside. My neighbours are mostly farmers. The only restrctions I have seen here so far is not to do noisy work outside on sundays or higher religious holidays (the people here are quite catholic), after 8 pm or between 1pm and 3 pm (due to the village getting part of it's income through a few hotels catering to elderly people). For anything else it is live and let live, ansd mind your own business. I'm doing a lot of DIY and nobody has been complaining about it.

Quoting Skidmarks (Reply 32):
Ah, such a life in the land of the free. A place to grow old in security and safety, a place where your home is your place of refuge and comfort.

Such a fine example of community policing you'll see anywhere in the world.

Andy old



Quoting Zak (Reply 33):
it always strikes me and suprises me as to which extend certain regulations are enforced in the u.s..
to me, its logical that, as long as i adhere to environmental laws etc, i can do whatever i want on MY PROPERTY. yet in the u.s., where many people argue that a public healthcare system is like living in communism, people seem to have laws and community rules that fiddle with your daily life more than what i know about say, eastern europes past.
the land of the free, where you will have to water your own lawn or pay fines, way to go, hypocrisy!



Quoting Banco (Reply 35):
Explain something to me:

How can a Homeowner Association impose standards on someone who already owns the property? If you own the freehold, how can they legally have any sway over the property beyond health and hygiene minimums? I don't understand, either you own it or you don't. confused

Exactly. On another forum I'm a member of, there was a discussion a while ago about some forum member, I think from CT, who was a builder. The house and land he owned, he inherited from his grandfather, who found a building company, which the grandson now runs. Back then the grandfather bought the land (outside town then) not just to live there, but to use it at the same time as a yard to store his construction materials, building machinery and to work on it (like prefabricating steel parts for buildings). Now, 50 years later, the town has encroached on it and the local HOA demands of him to move all his contruction equipment away, since the place, out in the fields 50 years ago, is now an upscale neighbourhood and having a factory like establishment in the middle would destroy it's character.

Another topic are amateur radio antennas (but this problem seems to be worldwide). As soon as you set one up (preferably a visible one, like a big, directional HF antenna), neighbours will start to complain about radio and TV interference, EVEN if the antenna has not even BEEN CONNECTED TO ANY TRANCEIVER!


Jan


Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
KaiGywer
Crew
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:01 pm

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 16):
Because they knew he would tell them to go F**K themselves.

And rightly so. As long as the car runs and legal by state standards, they can't do anything about it.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
Farcry
Posts: 152
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:30 pm

Pity the old biddy (meant in the nicest possible way) couldn't get indoors and play a certain record by Tom Jones. You know the one. Brown, brown grass of home. Stupid law enforcement officer. In the UK you'd be penalised for watering your lawn in certain areas. Maybe this could be turned into a rap song in the US.

Cuff the biddy
Cos of her lousy grass
Cuff the Biddy
On her wizened ass

Cuff the biddy
The rules do apply
Cuff the biddy
Slap her on the sly

Cuff the biddy
Who gives a fig
Cuff the biddy
You uniformed pig

Please feel free to add or, remonstrate.
Exactly how long is a drastic measure?
 
exFATboy
Posts: 1887
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:32 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 35):
How can a Homeowner Association impose standards on someone who already owns the property? If you own the freehold, how can they legally have any sway over the property beyond health and hygiene minimums? I don't understand, either you own it or you don't.

In some parts of the United States, it's common for a developer to insert covenants in the land deed which bind the homeowner to a homeowner's association and its rules. These are particularly common in Florida - you'll seed "A Deed Restricted Community" posted prominently at the entry to many subdivisions. In these areas, the HOA functions pretty much as a quasi-government.

The advantage is that these HOAs can move faster to protect property values because they don't have the layers of bureaucracy that slow down a government agency when they try to enforce local ordinances requiring upkeep. The disadvantage is that, while this sort of HOA has the effective powers of government, they frequently don't have the safeguards an actual government agency would have (hearing requirements, appeal processes, etc.) and can run roughshod over residents the board of directors doesn't like...homeowners either have to have the money to sue, or have to wait until the next election to try to do something about it.

In non deed-restricted communities, HOAs usually don't have any special powers, and they're limited to acting through the usual government channels (or just complaining so much a homeowner gives in to their demands.)

When I was in college, many years ago just after the Earth cooled, many of my friends were active in the local Newman Center (Catholic youth group), and the Center was having a running argument with the local HOA about some plastic flamingos they'd put in the front yard to break the monotony of the neighborhood. The original intent was to just leave them there for a few days, but when the elderly biddies of the HOA started whining, they called the city to make sure they were legal (they were), and then left them up just to make the point, and - admittedly - to be a little annoying. They came down a few weeks later, when the next-door neighbors asked nicely if they wouldn't mind taking them down as they were about to put their house on the market.
 
Banco
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Tue Jul 10, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 39):

OK, so in some areas there's a covenant, I get that, though I do find it a bit strange that such a covenant can be worded that way. Here, covenants tend to govern what the land can be used for, not something as nebulous as keeping it in good order. Even then, they can be over-ruled, and if you own the freehold, then you own the freehold.

No matter, your rules are your own! But what I do find confusing in your answer is that if I understand you correctly, you still have Homeowners Associations even where they don't have such powers. How come? Who are they, who elected them and does everywhere have them?

(Basic classes on US real estate rules here now  Wink )
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exFATboy
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:04 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 40):
But what I do find confusing in your answer is that if I understand you correctly, you still have Homeowners Associations even where they don't have such powers. How come? Who are they, who elected them and does everywhere have them?

In areas where they're not mandated by deed covenants, they're just voluntary organizations, and a lot of communities don't have them. The non-mandated ones are sometimes called "resident's associations", "neigborhood associations", etc., and some of these are open to renters.

They serve as voluntary groups that try to uphold neighbohood standards (mainly by nagging, but also in extreme cases by going to and working with the appropriate government agencies), and frequently send representatives to local government meetings to speak for the neighborhood's interests. And, as you might guess as an aviation enthusiast, sometimes mutate into NIMBY groups! In many plaes they're also just a convenient vehicle for neighborhoods to organize fun stuff like block parties, barbecues, and other organized excuses to drink beer.  Smile
 
Banco
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:10 am

Ah, OK. They're just the local pressure group for the area, then. Gotcha.

Quoting ExFATboy (Reply 41):
and frequently send representatives to local government meetings to speak for the neighborhood's interests

Why do I get a feeling of low dread when I read things like this? These are going to be the self-appointed moral guardian types, aren't they? Those appalling "community leaders" who will talk about how standards are slipping, a dose of good old fashioned discipline is needed, and young people today don't show any respect etc etc.
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KaiGywer
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:58 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 42):
Why do I get a feeling of low dread when I read things like this? These are going to be the self-appointed moral guardian types, aren't they? Those appalling "community leaders" who will talk about how standards are slipping, a dose of good old fashioned discipline is needed, and young people today don't show any respect etc etc.

That sounds pretty accurate
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skidmarks
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Wed Jul 11, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 42):
Why do I get a feeling of low dread when I read things like this? These are going to be the self-appointed moral guardian types, aren't they? Those appalling "community leaders" who will talk about how standards are slipping, a dose of good old fashioned discipline is needed, and young people today don't show any respect etc etc.

A bit like some of the youth on here, damn them! No respect for order and their elders! Big grin

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DrDeke
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:36 am

Quoting Learpilot (Reply 12):
Were they so afraid of your dad that they couldn't stop by and voice their concerns directly to him and not have to run to the city authorities?

Probably because they knew their request was ridiculous and would have been embarrassed to present it to him in person.



Quoting Banco (Reply 40):
OK, so in some areas there's a covenant, I get that, though I do find it a bit strange that such a covenant can be worded that way. Here, covenants tend to govern what the land can be used for, not something as nebulous as keeping it in good order

The system you describe makes sense to me. I get the impression that for many people here, at least those who support HOAs, money is the overriding priority, and they don't particularly care what other interests get stepped on for the sake of keeping their property value high.


DrDeke
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KBOS
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RE: 70 Year Old Woman Arrested For Not Watering Lawn

Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 34):
Sounds like the kind of place where you neighbours start bitching if you don't decorate your house over Christmas.

Actually, they would probably bitch if you did decorate your house. They would'nt even let this vet fly a flag....

http://www.ccfj.net/20-20priv.gov.htm

"In Richmond, Va., Richard Oulton, a Vietnam veteran, is fighting his homeowners association for the right to fly an American flag on a 25-foot pole. The association ordered him to take the flagpole down, calling it a "visual nuisance."

Oulton, who has been raising the flag ever since he was a medic in Vietnam and flew the Stars and Stripes over his bunker, has refused. "To take it down now would be a total dishonor and an insult to everyone that has ever stood for the flag," he says.

Oulton says he checked the association's rules before he moved in, specifically to see whether there were any restrictions on flying the flag. He found no reference to flags or flagpoles, so he put up a large flagpole next to the huge home he built on three lots.

He says his neighbors didn't object, and three neighbors 20/20 talked to agreed. One of them, Frank Taylor, called Oulton's flag "an asset to the community."

But the homeowner's association board said the flagpole was too big. "We had no idea someone would erect a flagpole that large when the guidelines were written," says board member Birdie Nichols. Since their guidelines did not mention flagpoles, the board instead relied on a rule that says "no structure shall be erected? without approval."

The board later adopted rules allowing flagpoles --- but restricting them to 6 feet in length and requiring that they be mounted on the house, not standing in the yard.

"All we are asking Mr. Oulton to do is to show his patriotism within the guidelines that everyone else in the community is willing to live by," says Nichols.

Oulton admits he could easily hang his flag from a pole mounted on his house, but says, "It wouldn't be the right thing to do."

Oulton says the board is trampling on his basic freedoms. "I don't understand what the problem is. It's a property right that I have to fly this flag. It's a free speech right that I have to fly this flag."
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