TheCol
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Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:37 pm

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/st...a6c95c-95ae-4840-b899-7271fdab65a0

Like we all didn't see this one coming.  Yeah sure

It was obvious that some team, along with their country, would be rubbed the wrong way at some point during this tournament.

In any case, I find this kinda hard to believe:

Players said they were going to greet a throng of supporters and sign autographs by their bus when they were "attacked" by police officers for no apparent reason.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
greasespot
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:59 pm

This is bullshit......kick the hooligans out of the country....

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
vaporlock
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:56 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 1):
This is bullshit......kick the hooligans out of the country....

I second that!!!

Phyllis  bouncy 
 
Derico
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:14 am

So the Chileans are lying.... where's the proof of that?

Why can't the Canadian police be lying? Maybe all the facts should come out first.

There are many things to be admired about Canada, but their police force does not seem to be one of them.
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MattRB
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
There are many things to be admired about Canada, but their police force does not seem to be one of them.

Because the Chilean soccer just has to be telling the complete and utter truth, right?

Sorry, I have a hard time believing their (Vidal et al) version of the story.

They let their tempers get the better of them after a humiliating defeat, got rowdy and just happened to run into the local constabulary.. and didn't know when to back down.

Charges should be laid, offenders prosecuted and sent packing after serving the appropriate jail time.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:20 am

“I personally saw that the police of Toronto did not act as our police (force) is used to acting with people that are just playing a football game,” Chilean soccer federation president Harold Mayne-Nicholls said.

No shit, dumb fuck. You were in Canada. Canadian cops aren't going to pretend to be wussy Chilean cops and let to trash the place and other people just because you're in town.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
greasespot
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
There are many things to be admired about Canada, but their police force does not seem to be one of them.

And you base that on what?

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
L-188
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
Why can't the Canadian police be lying?

I think you said the key word there, Canadian.

There Canadian's, there are certian things that go against their national ethos.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
greasespot
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:16 am

We have bad apples....we just make them Mounties  Smile

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
PPVRA
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:23 am

FIFA considers disciplinary action against Chile's under-20 soccer team:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/...A-SPT-SOC-U20-FIFA-Chile-Fight.php
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StarAC17
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:47 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
There are many things to be admired about Canada, but their police force does not seem to be one of them.

Look cops in Canada and the US don't take this kind of crap about rioting during sporting events, if you are going to try is nonsense and fight the other teams in public the cops are going to get involved to stop it and 20 year olds cause shit here all the time and are dealt with in the same way and people visiting have to honour those laws. This is one of the reason that riots don't happen in North America when it comes to our sports, you never see Maple leaf fans starting a Riot with Sens fans at a hockey game as the do not take it nearly as seriously as soccer loving nations and we love hockey here just as much. injured

Never has anyone been killed in North America regarding sports roits (I can't remember hearing about one ever and championship celebrations do not count) and people in Europe and South America get killed or injured all the time in roits and we simply make fun of you for it. Also you will never see a ref get killed over a bad call in any North American sport which can't be said about soccer because that happened in South Africa a few years ago.
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Derico
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting MattRB (Reply 4):
Because the Chilean soccer just has to be telling the complete and utter truth, right?

Exactly, that's why I said all the facts should come out. I made that statement to show how the thread could be perceived by third parties, as if before all the information was out it was certain it was all the Chilean delegation's fault.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 7):
I think you said the key word there, Canadian.

There Canadian's, there are certian things that go against their national ethos.

With all due respect, I'm not one to buy that. I'm sure the police could be 100% correct, but there's also a chance they took some wrong action. Again, we have to wait until all the facts come out.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 10):
Never has anyone been killed in North America regarding sports roits (I can't remember hearing about one ever and championship celebrations do not count) and people in Europe and South America get killed or injured all the time in roits and we simply make fun of you for it.

I admire the civility of sporting events in North America, I've said that before (though I chuckled at your making exception of Championship situations... those are still sporting events). Many of those serious riots you cite also take place in finals or in games which decide if a team will lose a spot in the major league of that country. I have even made threads embarrasing my own country for the behavior of fanatics in stadiums, quite recently in fact (June). I don't pull any punches be it my country or another's.

But making fun of that is rather childish. But, at least they are adults engaging in such stupidity. "We" can't make fun of the fact that kids and teenagers in your country get blown away in schools on a calendar basis, simply because it is so sad and sickening.
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StarAC17
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:57 pm

Quoting Derico (Reply 11):
(though I chuckled at your making exception of Championship situations... those are still sporting events).

Yeah but these are celebrations that get out of hand and are not riots and mostly media overblown anyway. An example of this would be when the Leafs win a cup again if they ever do there will be stuff going on in Toronto getting out of hand but no one will be at each others throats.

Quoting Derico (Reply 11):
But making fun of that is rather childish. But, at least they are adults engaging in such stupidity. "We" can't make fun of the fact that kids and teenagers in your country get blown away in schools on a calendar basis, simply because it is so sad and sickening.

I never said it was funny myself but what sports are in the grand scheme of things is a trivial thing and are an escape from everyday life and most people in North America treat it this way and basically don't care that much when their team loses. Therefore we are a lot more civil and we find it funny that people in Soccer driven areas take this game so seriously that the riots it can cause injuries and cost lives. We don't make fun of the death (thats not cool) but we do wonder why a sport can cause so much emotion and we satirize the riots and it is probably one reason we don't like soccer.

As for the school shootings that you are referring to, it is a much more complex issue as the shooters are intending to kill people and the people killed in Soccer riots are usually collateral damage and not intended. If you think that the cause of shootings is funny an trivial then you can satirize it if you want to but they are completely different issues.
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MattRB
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:22 am

I was wondering how long this would go on before this happened:

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/238573

To compare our police force to that of Pinochet shows just how desperate some of the Chilean people are to blame Toronto cops for what happened on Thursday. Their argument has not a leg to stand on, but that doesn't stop them from trying to take the focus off the Chilean U-20 team and place it elsewhere.

Anyone who buys into this nonsensical crap should be ashamed of themselves.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
TheCol
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:36 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):

Do you honestly believe that the cops would just jump on that team for no reason? I know things can be a little different down there, but up here our cops don't beat people just because they feel like it.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:44 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 14):
but up here our cops don't beat people just because they feel like it.

Especially with hundreds of eye witnesses present. Citizens in general are the first people to run to the media when a police officer blatantly misuses force or uses excessive force. I haven't heard or seen any reports from such people...just whining Chilians who have no idea what they're talking about.

If I, as an American, get into a fight in England, should I expect their cops to act like American cops? Of course not. It's their country, their laws, their customs.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
ACDC8
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:48 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 14):
Do you honestly believe that the cops would just jump on that team for no reason? I know things can be a little different down there, but up here our cops don't beat people just because they feel like it.

I don't think they do it for no reason, but I do believe that the RCMP and other Canadian Police forces do tend to assume too much and jump the gun on alot of things. I'd be willing to bet that if the Police had done nothing, everything would have been fine.
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RussianJet
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:34 am

Sounds like rubbish to me. I for one do not believe that the police tazed them 'for no apparent reason'. Not going to happen.
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ACDC8
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:40 am

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 17):
Sounds like rubbish to me. I for one do not believe that the police tazed them 'for no apparent reason'. Not going to happen

The RCMP are quite well known for overreacting to normally harmless situations and turning them into bigger problems than they really are.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
NWA742
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 1):
This is bullshit......kick the hooligans out of the country....

Can I help?

What a bunch of whiners.



-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
canuckpaxguy
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:10 am

It takes A LOT to provoke Toronto cops. They are under HUGE scrutiny ALL the time.
I will blindly, and confidently, take the side of the Toronto cops in this situation.

Toronto cops will warn you once, warn you twice, and sometimes even warn you a third time before taking action. They are by no means wimps, but they NEVER act without good reason. Even in large gatherings or events where there is historically trouble (ie visitors misbehaving at Caribbana several years ago) T.O. cops are always on their best behaviour.

G
 
Derico
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 12):
As for the school shootings that you are referring to, it is a much more complex issue as the shooters are intending to kill people and the people killed in Soccer riots are usually collateral damage and not intended. If you think that the cause of shootings is funny an trivial then you can satirize it if you want to but they are completely different issues.

I tend to agree, but the problem of violence for example in the ARG, is also rather complex and is not solely just childish 'I can't stand to lose' violence. It involves criminal elements that have infiltrated the clubs 'hooligan' groups, schemes involving big sums of money where these groups take cuts by extorting for players and trades and other things. Most people that go to games actually never do anything at all. There's serious problems in all societies no doubt.

Quoting TheCol (Reply 14):
Do you honestly believe that the cops would just jump on that team for no reason? I know things can be a little different down there, but up here our cops don't beat people just because they feel like it.

In Chile the police tends to be quite professional. Argentine police has many defects, but beating people isn't one of them, in fact I do not recall any such event in the last 5 years at least in the entire country.

In fact the opposite is true, we have one of the most permissive systems in the world where people can directly interefere in the daily life of others, without being arrested.
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RussianJet
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:18 am

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 18):
The RCMP are quite well known for overreacting to normally harmless situations and turning them into bigger problems than they really are.

I'll buy that, but I still don't believe you get tazed for 'nothing' in Canada.
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yooyoo
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:33 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
So the Chileans are lying.... where's the proof of that?

I was there, and no the police did not instigate this BS.

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
but their police force does not seem to be one of them.

THe cops are top notch.

This was all hot blooded actions by players and "fans" that simply cannot take a loss the way high end athletes should be able to take defeat.

The cops dealt with the situation while protecting theme selves from people who thought they were above the law.
I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
 
n710ps
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:00 am

What reason would the cops have to jump the Chilean team. The Chilean team got their ass skinned by Argentina and they were unhappy. This is totally common in this sport no matter where you go. And many sports. The bottom line is when you take something that is a passion to people things are bound to happen. Now ain my opinion and I have been to Toronto many times as it is in fact one of my three favorite cities on the planet and their cops are indeed top notch and FANTASTICLY professional in how they do it. I see it the way of the Canadian police.
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ACDC8
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:14 pm

Quoting RussianJet (Reply 22):
I'll buy that, but I still don't believe you get tazed for 'nothing' in Canada.

You don't, but there are many situations that the police provoke, which in turn, escalates the situation resulting in the police having to use more brute force. The RCMP are in constant criticism for this behaviour. Just as an example, there was a story in The Province today about how the RCMP pepper sprayed a bunch of native (youths, women and children) while riding in the back of a pick-up truck after one of the soccer games. They were being a bit rowdy, but not doing anything harmful to anyone. Instead of letting the group ride on, following them and perhaps giving the driver a ticket for letting people ride in the back, they chose to confront the group which escalated the situation.

Stuff like this happens on a day to day basis and has tarnished the reputation (especially in North Vancouver and West Vancouver) of the RCMP.
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greasespot
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting ACDC8 (Reply 25):
You don't, but there are many situations that the police provoke, which in turn, escalates the situation resulting in the police having to use more brute force. The RCMP are in constant criticism for this behaviour. Just as an example, there was a story in The Province today about how the RCMP pepper sprayed a bunch of native (youths, women and children) while riding in the back of a pick-up truck after one of the soccer games. They were being a bit rowdy, but not doing anything harmful to anyone. Instead of letting the group ride on, following them and perhaps giving the driver a ticket for letting people ride in the back, they chose to confront the group which escalated the situation

You were not there and have no Idea what you are talking about...You only have the media and the Subjects side....the police are not allowed to go running to the media Plead theri case like civilians can...Maybe when the public screams in my face "Fuck off" I can file a public complaint against them....like the bad guys do to us.....

The RCMP has over 30000 employees....a couple of them do not represent the whole group....Just like one bad bus driver does not represent all bus drivers.......

Before you start judging perhaps you should get the whole story.....BOTH SIDES.....

Here is a thought...lets say the police let them carry on.....and what if they got into an accident.......and what if the people in the back were killed.....You would now be blaming the police for NOT doing anything....

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
yooyoo
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:52 pm

Quoting Greasespot (Reply 26):
Here is a thought...lets say the police let them carry on.....and what if they got into an accident.......and what if the people in the back were killed.....You would now be blaming the police for NOT doing anything....

In most cases, the cops can't win, either way.

Did anybody see the game? and if so did they show the Chilean fan storm the filed? Did they show the Chilean players push and shove security (not cops) away from the guy, did they show the Chilean players push one security official to the field?.

Even during the game they showed not regard towards authority. To me they thought they were above the law and this carried over after the game.
I am so smart, i am so smart... S-M-R-T... i mean S-M-A-R-T
 
MattRB
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:32 am

And now that they're out of the country, the story told by the Chilean soccer team has changed.

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/Soccer/article/241192
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yowza
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:47 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 3):
So the Chileans are lying.... where's the proof of that?

Why can't the Canadian police be lying? Maybe all the facts should come out first.

There are many things to be admired about Canada, but their police force does not seem to be one of them.

If your country's players had just played the game and not spent 90 minutes hitting the deck clutching a body part as if they had just be shot point blank by a shotgun every time time somebody got close to them this situation would not have happened in the first place. That said FIFA failed the Chileans by appointing such and incompetent referee. (Who appoints a non-Spanish speaker to referee Chile vs Argentina for god's sake?)

As for what started this mess, a Chilean player - Isaias Peralta - has admitted to a Chilean paper (El Mercuro) that one of his teammates punched a FEMALE police officer in the face.

Lastly, your "point" about Canada not being admired for its police force is subjective.

YOWza
 
Derico
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting YOWza (Reply 29):
If your country's players had just played the game and not spent 90 minutes hitting the deck clutching a body part as if they had just be shot point blank by a shotgun every time time somebody got close to them this situation would not have happened in the first place

So now the Chilean scuffle with Canadian cops is Argentina's fault.



Good Goddess... so I guess your recent untimely shower created a ripple your town's water system, generating a wave across a river which ended up hitting a warm ocean current deflecting it to a glacier in the pole causing it's collapse and raising sea levels 2 meters flooding all of Bangladesh...

Quoting YOWza (Reply 29):
Lastly, your "point" about Canada not being admired for its police force is subjective.

Of course it is, I thought I didn't have to clarify that it was my opinion, even though of course I don't have a complete picture of how Canadian police forces act.
My internet was not shut down, the internet has shut me down
 
lnglive1011yyz
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Tue Jul 31, 2007 2:56 am

Just another reason why I don't like Soccer HAHAHAHA

Over-dramatic fans like this drive me nuts.. in ANY sport.. but there appears to be more soccer nuts who are insane.

perhaps its because it's a game for 'all'.. you don't have to really pay anything to play it.

LOL

1011yyz
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yowza
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RE: Toronto Cops Involved In A Diplomatic Incident

Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:00 am

Quoting Derico (Reply 30):
So now the Chilean scuffle with Canadian cops is Argentina's fault.

I'm going to assume you chose to deliberately misinterpret my statement to start a shit throwing match as I know from your previous posts that you have a good enough command of the English language. I'm not blaming Argentina, I'm simply saying they exacerbated the problem. If you can't see that then I guess there is no point even continuing this discussion with you.

Incidentally, I love how you chose to flatly ignore the fact that one of the Chileans came clean about what actually happened...really lends strength to your contribution to this thread  Yeah sure and doesn't smack at all for looking for an argument

Quoting Derico (Reply 30):
Of course it is, I thought I didn't have to clarify that it was my opinion, even though of course I don't have a complete picture of how Canadian police forces act.

Well you know what they say, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. I just wanted to remind you of that.

YOWza

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