Charles79
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For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:19 am

Interesting article in the LA Times today...yet another group that wasn't necessarily being protected by Saddam but at least did not have to fear death under the old regime before the invasion.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...headlines-world&ctrack=1&cset=true

I just wonder why this hasn't received more coverage in the media or by the politicians. Any thoughts?
 
jafa39
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting Charles79 (Thread starter):
Any thoughts?

Probably because EVERYONE in Iraq is living in fear and so the need to single out any particular group never came up...after all, you don't need to be doing anything other than shopping or waiting for a bus to get offed in Iraq.
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cfalk
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:11 am

Quoting Charles79 (Thread starter):
Interesting article in the LA Times today...yet another group that wasn't necessarily being protected by Saddam but at least did not have to fear death under the old regime before the invasion.

Don't trust the LA Times. They are pretty leftist.

From Amnesty International:

The death penalty continued to be applied extensively. In November the Revolutionary Command Council, the highest executive body in the country, issued a decree to provide the death penalty for the offences of prostitution, homosexuality, incest and rape.

http://web.amnesty.org/report2002/mde/iraq!Open
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Falcon84
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 2):
Don't trust the LA Times. They are pretty leftist.

From Amnesty International:

The death penalty continued to be applied extensively. In November the Revolutionary Command Council, the highest executive body in the country, issued a decree to provide the death penalty for the offences of prostitution, homosexuality, incest and rape.

So, do we not trust either, Charles?

Maybe Bush should tell Iraq to put in a Constitutional Amendment, banning gay marriage.  Yeah sure
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Aaron747
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 9:01 am

Quoting Charles79 (Thread starter):
I just wonder why this hasn't received more coverage in the media or by the politicians. Any thoughts?

It's obvious why. The Family Research Council and their behavior-controlling, "morality"-enforcing ilk don't want any more discussion on the subject than already exists. Stories like this from abroad only legitimize the global struggle against homophobia and like-minded persecution, and that's the last thing they want.
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AeroWesty
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:02 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 2):
Don't trust the LA Times. They are pretty leftist.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

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cfalk
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
It's obvious why.

Yes it is - it is not true. Under Saddam, homosexuals were executed.

Look, there are a million things in Iraq more important and more urgent to fix than gay rights.
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Falcon84
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:00 am

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6):
Look, there are a million things in Iraq more important and more urgent to fix than gay rights.

So, it's OK with you if some are excuted because there are more important things? Uh, OK.
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Charles79
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
So, do we not trust either, Charles?

Good point. Just because a press corp leans towards one side doesn't mean they are going to present inaccurate facts. Fox news is far right...should I not trust the facts they present then? A reporter can twist the facts, that I'll give you, but killing gays just for being gay is not an opinion or a bias, it's a fact.

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 4):
Stories like this from abroad only legitimize the global struggle against homophobia and like-minded persecution, and that's the last thing they want.

Thanks Aaron, that's probably the most eloquent explanation I've received here so far. I acknowledge that we have a government that is against gay rights, so gays getting executed in Iraq is probably not their biggest concern. On the other hand, I wonder why they are giving the same silence treatment to the millions of Christians that have had to flee Iraq in fear for their lives. Wouldn't this be on the Family Research Council's radar, or are the Iraqi Christians not valuable enough for the church?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6):
Look, there are a million things in Iraq more important and more urgent to fix than gay rights.

Er, this is not as simple as gay marriage, this is life and death we are talking about, and no matter what personal feelings you may have towards gays, killing innocent civilians should never be discarded this easily. At the very least, the US government should ask the Iraqi government to discipline those police officers that target gays and execute them, and to ask the religous sectarian leaders not to endorse executions of gays. You are right, there are a million things to fix in Iraq, so why add homophobia to the list?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 3):
Maybe Bush should tell Iraq to put in a Constitutional Amendment, banning gay marriage.

I think it's here in the US were he wished he could pass such legislation!

Cheers!

Charles
 
Mir
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:37 pm

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 8):
You are right, there are a million things to fix in Iraq, so why add homophobia to the list?

Homophobia is obviously already on the list.

People are being killed on a daily basis in Iraq. Not just gay people, not just Sunni people, not just Shiite people, people in general. Once that's under control, then Iraq can go about protecting it's homosexuals.

-Mir
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cfalk
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Quoting Cfalk (Reply 6):
Look, there are a million things in Iraq more important and more urgent to fix than gay rights.

So, it's OK with you if some are excuted because there are more important things? Uh, OK.

Falcon, you are usually brighter than that. Look at the date of Amnesty's report. Saddam was in power then.

AFAIK, they don't execute gays anymore. That's an improvement, isn't it? Be happy for small favors in a country where Islam is the majority religion. They still have honor killings - and I think that's a far worse problem.

If you want to hold a gay-pride parade in the middle east, you're gonna be waiting an awful long time.
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Klaus
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:59 pm

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 10):
AFAIK, they don't execute gays anymore.

The state maybe doesn't any more - but nowadays you have roving death squads of the religious fanatics who attack and kill people whose outfits or any other attributes they don't happen to like.

Big progress, really.

Small wonder that millions of iraqis are fleeing the country if they can.
 
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RE: For Gays In Iraq, A Life Of Constant Fear

Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:15 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 11):
The state maybe doesn't any more - but nowadays you have roving death squads of the religious fanatics who attack and kill people whose outfits or any other attributes they don't happen to like.

Then the "State" has failed its Nation, for failure to protect.

But you have to admit that it is not surprising, given the overall status of the Country. This is a piece of the mess. I disagree however with some folks in this thread who kind of dismiss the problem as of a lesser importance. Gay Rights are an excellent index for Liberty anywhere, to start with... right to Live.

Edit: 2 typos.

[Edited 2007-08-06 15:40:08]
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