AsstChiefMark
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Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:34 am

Amtrak uses Talgo trainsets on their Cascades service in Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia. Due to cracks found in the suspension towers, all trainsets have been bad ordered immediately and indefinitely.

http://www.railpictures.net/images/images2/a/AMTK466Delta1.jpg.71474.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/i/IMG_3796.JPG.95626.jpg

Amtrak is scrambling to send spare and reserve standard coaches and other cars to the northwest to fill the gap.

Source
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tz757300
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:36 am

Here's a vid of the grounded consist...

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falstaff
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:33 pm

Amtrak sure has had problems with its "modern" equipment. They should have just built new versions of 1940-50s equipment and they wouldn't have had any trouble.

I always liked a trip in "Heritage" car on Amtrak. Amfleet and Superliner equipment is ok too. I don't like the Horizon fleet or any of the newer stuff. It doesn't have the feel of the older equipment. I have taken several trips with the Union Pacific business car fleet (Kansas City to Chicago and St. Louis to Atlanta). Nothing like those kind of train cars for ride quality and comfort. I also once rode on a NS heavyweight business car. That was the best ride I ever experienced on a train.

I guess what I really should say is that they don't build them the way they used to.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:58 pm

I read about this in Saturday's paper. They're sending buses instead!
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seb146
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:50 am

Tuesday morning update: AMTRAK has brought in rail coaches to restore some service EUG-PDX-SEA. The Oregonian reports there will be 3 round trips a day SEA-PDX and one PDX-EUG, but there will be no business class and fewer other amenities. I hope they get them back soon. Business class on Cascades is great! I don't go on it often, but I would much rather go on the train than drive in SEA!
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PhilGil
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:23 am

Some service was actually restored yesterday (Monday). Amtrak did an uncharacteristically good job getting substitute equipment up and running. Here is yesterday’s 12:30 pm service Portland-Seattle.

http://www.pbase.com/pgilston/image/83488660.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/pgilston/image/83488662.jpg

I agree about the Talgo trains being a nice ride and an excellent way to travel between Seattle and Portland.
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Wed Aug 08, 2007 3:50 am

Talgo's are nice, but I hate the fake whistle sound from the loco's on those trainsets. If you've heard one in person you know what I mean.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:08 pm

From all the good things people are saying about The Cascades while they're out of service, I should take a trippie up to Seattle when they come back online. Twenty years ago I remember connecting to a train in France that was branded as "Talgo" to continue my trip from Nice to Switzerland, and it was the nearest thing to an oceanliner on rails in First.

Business class up to Seattle doesn't appear to be all that pricey at all.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:21 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 6):
Talgo's are nice, but I hate the fake whistle sound from the loco's on those trainsets. If you've heard one in person you know what I mean.

They sound fake?

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strasserb
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:42 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Thread starter):
Amtrak

I don't know anything about Amtrak but your pictures are the best I've ever seen.
Thank you for sharing them.
Still, even in the most arid desert is an airport somewhere ...
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting StrasserB (Reply 9):
I don't know anything about Amtrak but your pictures are the best I've ever seen.

They're not mine. They're from Coz's railroad pic site. www.railpictures.net
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MSYtristar
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:23 am

Maybe not all of them, but some of those engines have that "artificial" horn sound. You can tell on the P42's now as well. A clear difference from a couple of years ago. Perhaps the engines got a new horn when they were ugraded. I read something about it on trainorders not that long ago.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:13 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
I read about this in Saturday's paper. They're sending buses instead!

Good hear about a solution.

I know someone will pick these up and restore them. Mark or Coz, who does that type of stuff?

Hunter
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:25 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 11):
Perhaps the engines got a new horn when they were ugraded.



Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 12):
Mark or Coz, who does that type of stuff?

Coz can't come out and play right now. He's been grounded for being a bad little boy.

Amtrak sent a bunch of older Amfleet and Heritage units up there to take the place of the Talgos. See reply #5.
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LH459
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:01 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 13):
Amtrak sent a bunch of older Amfleet and Heritage units up there to take the place of the Talgos

Any news on when (if?) the Talgos will be back? I've always wanted to take that train...
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
mirrodie
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:24 am

Great looking trains. I finally saw a Talgo set up in SEA last month while on business.

I've often wondered, what was behind the design? I mean the 'low riding' coaches and the sweeping roof structures that contunie in contour to the engine. It looks stunning but I never really looked into whether or not it was functional.
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:01 am

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 15):
I've often wondered, what was behind the design?

Big version: Width: 576 Height: 364 File size: 45kb


The Talgo cars hang on four suspension towers that connect to the bogies (trucks). The body of the rail car essentially functions and moves like a glider-type porch swing:

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PhilGil
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:55 pm

Quoting Mirrodie (Reply 15):
I've often wondered, what was behind the design? I mean the 'low riding' coaches and the sweeping roof structures that contunie in contour to the engine. It looks stunning but I never really looked into whether or not it was functional.

Talgo technology was developed in Spain, with the first revenue trains entering service in the early 1950’s. Mark's porch swing analogy is a great way of visualizing the suspension system. The low, light, articulated trains can run faster than conventional stock on routes with lots of curves. They are also easier on the track at high speeds. Lots of info on this website.

The “sweeping roof structures” on the Cascades trainsets may contribute a bit to aerodynamic efficiency, but are there primarily for looks. Spanish Talgo trains often run with low-slung locomotives that more closely match the height of the cars.

[Edited 2007-08-09 06:03:53]
 
57AZ
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:47 pm

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 12):
I know someone will pick these up and restore them. Mark or Coz, who does that type of stuff?

From Amtrak's POV, the best alternative would be to make whatever repairs are needed on site. If that is not possible, they will probably deadhead the train sets to Beach Grove and do the work there. There aren't that many outfits that rebuild passenger cars, especially something like Talgo. My bet is that they go to Beach Grove for rebuilds as quickly as Amtrak can work it out

For those unfamiliar with Amtrak, Beach Grove, Indiana is their car and locomotive shops for the entire system.
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MCOflyer
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:56 pm

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 18):
Talgo.

Heard of them. I just wonder what will go next?

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
graphic
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 3:09 pm

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 10):
They're not mine. They're from Coz's railroad pic site.

Since when was Coz Chris Kilroy?
Demand Media fails at life
 
Rj111
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:29 pm

I always though they looked ridiculous those things. Big grin
 
mdodd
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:03 am

Nice looking trains, sad to see them go.
 
57AZ
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:06 am

Quoting Mdodd (Reply 22):
Nice looking trains, sad to see them go.

Well, they're not gone for good-just until the problems can be eliminated. Amtrak holds onto trainsets as long as they are viable-remember the Rohr Turboliners? Most likely, engineering will come up with a solution and the cars will either be fixed on site or sent via hospital train to Beech Grove for overhaul.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
mdodd
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:10 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 23):
Well, they're not gone for good-just until the problems can be eliminated. Amtrak holds onto trainsets as long as they are viable-remember the Rohr Turboliners? Most likely, engineering will come up with a solution and the cars will either be fixed on site or sent via hospital train to Beech Grove for overhaul.

True.
*thinking back*

Why is it that Amtrak rarely ever gets any good press?
 
OB1504
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 18):
For those unfamiliar with Amtrak, Beach Grove, Indiana is their car and locomotive shops for the entire system.

Don't they do some work at Hialeah, too? (how weird would it be to see three or more Talgo trainsets normally used in the Pacific Northwest in the heat and humidity of Florida, though)
 
57AZ
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting Mdodd (Reply 24):
Why is it that Amtrak rarely ever gets any good press?

Because the same press that bashes Amtrak as pork spending gets revenue from ads sold to the car manufacturers. Nevermind that trains are more efficient, cleaner and economical than any road or automobile will be. I often use the facts related to light rail vs. bus transportation.

Fact-people are more inclined to use light rail than a comparable bus.

Fact-light rail can carry more people the same distance in an equal or lesser amount of time than a bus.

Fact-once you get beyond the initial construction investment, light rail is a cheaper form of transportation than a bus-a light rail vehicle has an economical lifespan of about fifty years versus twelve for a bus.

Fact-light rail creates development around it's routes and increases land and property values more than any other form of transit.

The fact is that rail is cheaper and more efficient-look how many Budd Rail Diesel Cars are still around and working in revenue service. Then consider the fact that none of them is newer than 45 years old. Highway and air transportation will never approach the economy and efficiency of a well designed rail transportation network. The only form of transportation more efficient and economic than rail (where feasible) is water borne shipping.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
mdodd
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:37 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 26):
Because the same press that bashes Amtrak as pork spending gets revenue from ads sold to the car manufacturers. Nevermind that trains are more efficient, cleaner and economical than any road or automobile will be. I often use the facts related to light rail vs. bus transportation.

Fact-people are more inclined to use light rail than a comparable bus.

Fact-light rail can carry more people the same distance in an equal or lesser amount of time than a bus.

Fact-once you get beyond the initial construction investment, light rail is a cheaper form of transportation than a bus-a light rail vehicle has an economical lifespan of about fifty years versus twelve for a bus.

Fact-light rail creates development around it's routes and increases land and property values more than any other form of transit.

The fact is that rail is cheaper and more efficient-look how many Budd Rail Diesel Cars are still around and working in revenue service. Then consider the fact that none of them is newer than 45 years old. Highway and air transportation will never approach the economy and efficiency of a well designed rail transportation network. The only form of transportation more efficient and economic than rail (where feasible) is water borne shipping.

I couldn't agree more. I feel the same exact way.
 
57AZ
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:28 am

I am happy that Tucson is taking some steps in the right direction. We are now planning additions to the route of the Old Pueblo Trolley which will be operated as a regular transit system, using modern streetcars. Right now, the first part of the extension is being constructed. That will get the streetcar into downtown Tucson proper by the end of 2008. Completion of the modern streetcar would not be until 2010.

Also, our state representatives are in serious negotiations with the Union Pacific to establish commuter rail between Tucson and Phoenix. They understand that with the population growth along the I-10 corridore, they need alternatives to freeway expansion.

Hialeah is only a light repair station if I remember correctly. They can do locomotive and rolling stock inspections and minor repairs, though they probably store more heavily damaged items until they can be put into condition to go to Beech Grove or be disposed of.
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KaiGywer
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:45 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 20):
Since when was Coz Chris Kilroy?

That's what I'm wondering too
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AeroWesty
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:27 am

On Thursday afternoon I was crossing the Steel Bridge and caught a glimpse of what I think is one of the replacement trains sitting at Union Station. It looked quite odd to have a Cascades loco with standard carriages sitting behind it.

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 26):
Fact-people are more inclined to use light rail than a comparable bus.

I'm always surprised at how true this is. In an article about our new IKEA store opening a couple of weeks ago, the paper made mention about how the extension of our MAX light rail to the airport in 2001 has become one of the biggest transportation assets in the city of Portland.
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57AZ
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 30):

I'm always surprised at how true this is. In an article about our new IKEA store opening a couple of weeks ago, the paper made mention about how the extension of our MAX light rail to the airport in 2001 has become one of the biggest transportation assets in the city of Portland.

True. Look at how much the folks who own property along the MAX lines have profitted. Their land value has increased significantly. Also, look at how many major cities in the west have light rail lines operating, under construction or being planned.

Cities Without Light Rail:

Reno, NV,
Las Vegas, NV
Albuquerque, NM
El Paso, TX

Cities With Light Rail:

San Diego, CA
Los Angeles, CA (including smaller municipalities)
Sacramento, CA
San Francisco, CA (most diverse transit fleet in the world)
Portland, OR
Seattle, WA
Salt Lake City, UT
Denver, CO
Fort Collins, CO
Phoenix, AZ
Tucson, AZ

Back east the following cities have light rail:

Dallas, TX
Galveston, TX
Memphis, TN
Tampa, FL
New Orleans, LA
Little Rock, AR
Pittsburgh, PA
Philadelphia, PA
Kenosha, WI
Boston, MA

San Francisco always amazes me-San Francisco Municipal Railway maintains what is probably the most diverse public transportation fleet in the world. They operate five vastly different types of transit vehicles: diesel buses, bio-diesel buses, trolley busses, electric streetcars (several different classes from manufacturers around the world) and the famous cable cars.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 4:59 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 31):
San Francisco always amazes me-San Francisco Municipal Railway maintains what is probably the most diverse public transportation fleet in the world.

When you consider that SF is also connected by BART, Cal-Train, and the ferry system, it's amazing that there's still a long backup at the Toll Plaza every morning.
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da man
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:07 am

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 31):
Back east the following cities have light rail:

You forgot Houston, TX:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/METRORail
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walter747
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:09 am

Excuse my ignorance but what is a Talgo train? What makes it different form any other train?

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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:12 am

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 34):
Excuse my ignorance but what is a Talgo train? What makes it different form any other train?

Please see the original post and replies 1, 8, and 16.
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walter747
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:34 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 35):
Please see the original post and replies 1, 8, and 16.

Oh, is it the same design as the Acela Express?
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AsstChiefMark
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:11 pm

Quoting Walter747 (Reply 36):
Oh, is it the same design as the Acela Express?

No. Talgo uses hanging suspension towers that extend well into the carbody. Inertia essentially tilts the carbody as it goes around curves.



Acela uses traditional trucks (bogies) with computer-controlled tilting mechanism placed between the trucks and carbodies.

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SKY1
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:27 pm

I dunno know how is TALGO performing at the States, but in Spain is a legendary train from the 50's.

Nowadays we have the oldest one TALGO III to serve Madrid with other minors Spanish cities and the most modern TALGO Pendular (sleeper Madrid-Lisbon, Madrid-Paris, Barcelona-Milan/Paris/Zurich) ; TALGO 200 on the High Speed way between Madrid and Málaga, and Madrid-Cádiz/Huelva.

And the newest TALGO High Speed trains S-102, Madrid-Zaragoza-Tarragona (coming soon to Barcelona)

TALGO is a great train. More info in English here: http://www.talgo.com/htm/English/English.htm
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KaiGywer
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:25 pm

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 31):
Back east the following cities have light rail:

You forgot Mpls  Sad I rode it the other day actually, great way to go spotting at MSP. Park for free at the MoA, then pay $3 for a six hour pass  Smile
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halls120
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
Quoting 57AZ (Reply 31):
San Francisco always amazes me-San Francisco Municipal Railway maintains what is probably the most diverse public transportation fleet in the world.

When you consider that SF is also connected by BART, Cal-Train, and the ferry system, it's amazing that there's still a long backup at the Toll Plaza every morning.

One reason there is a backup at the Bay Bridge every morning is the same reason there are massive backups on the highways leading into downtown DC - most of our transit systems are built on the idea that everyone works within walking distance of a few rail stops downtown. And that isn't the case.

And of course, the fact that we stupidly tore up the tracks of most of the existing rail systems in the 40's and 50's for more highways hasn't helped.

I wish I could take the train to work, but it simply isn't feasible - and I work two blocks from a metro stop in downtown DC. Thanks to VRE having to share the existing CSX trackage into DC, the commuter line closest to my house follows a meandering route into DC. Since VRE is limited in the number of trains they can run, there is no local/express distinction as in Europe, so the train stops at every station.

Sadly, car pooling or taking the bus is much quicker.
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seb146
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:26 pm

Quoting 57AZ (Reply 31):
Seattle, WA

They are still building it. I drove through to YVR for Canada Day and they had the poles up for the Southcenter section, but they are still working on their light rail. I believe the main web site is www.soundtransit.org.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
57AZ
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RE: Amtrak Talgo Trains Removed From Service

Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:00 am

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 39):
You forgot Mpls



Quoting Da man (Reply 33):
You forgot Houston, TX

Sorry guys, my mistake. Anyways, I think the point is made clear. Light rail is on the rebound nationwide-pretty amazing that it has spread so quickly in a short amount of time-only about 25 years since San Diego brought the modern streetcar back in the 1980s.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."

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