ConcordeBoy
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The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:37 pm

This one should certainly prove interesting for you Church of Global Warming types............

www.UltimateGlobalWarmingChallenge.com


$100,000 will be awarded to the first person to prove, in a scientific manner, that humans are causing harmful global warming. The winning entry will specifically reject both of the following two hypotheses:

UGWC Hypothesis 1:
Manmade emissions of greenhouse gases do not discernibly, significantly and predictably cause increases in global surface and tropospheric temperatures along with associated stratospheric cooling.

UGWC Hypothesis 2:
The benefits equal or exceed the costs of any increases in global temperature caused by manmade greenhouse gas emissions between the present time and the year 2100, when all global social, economic and environmental effects are considered.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
AC773
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:59 pm

The link leads to this thread!  Wow!

Incidentally, I wonder if these anti-global warming people could actually come up with the money if required.
Better to be nouveau than never to have been riche at all.
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:05 pm

I love ASO!
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 2:23 pm

Sounds pretty sketchy to me, specifically these rules:

2. Entrants acknowledge that the concepts and terms mentioned and referred to in the UGWC hypotheses are inherently and necessarily vague, and involve subjective judgment. JunkScience.com reserves the exclusive right to determine the meaning and application of such concepts and terms in order to facilitate the purpose of the contest.

8. A fee of $15 is required for each entry submitted. There will be no refunds of entry fees.

14. Entrants waive all rights and claims against JunkScience.com related to, or arising from the UGWC.

So you have to pay $15 to enter, no guarantees of a winner based God knows what standards, and you waive all claims against JunkScience. I dunno, sounds like a cool idea without the fees and vague rules I guess. But with them, it sounds like a witch hunt that you have to pay to enter.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 4:55 pm

Quoting AC773 (Reply 1):
anti-global warming people

...define please.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
dazbo5
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:55 pm

Just look at what's happened in Britain over the last 2 years: hottest summer on record in 2006 followed by the wettest summer on record in 2007. Something is seriously effecting our weather patterns and global warming is the likely culprit. Yes, the greenhouse effect is a perfectly natural phenomenon and is the very reason this planet is habitable and not a ball of ice. Global warming is also natural and tends go go through cycles over thousands of years. However, the key issue is the rate of change. It's happening over a few decades rather than thousands of years, that's the key issue. There is a perfect correlation between greenhouse gas emissions and global temperatures, eg atmospheric CO2 is double what it used to be and average temperatures are rising as CO2 and other gasses are. Would that suffice for the $100,000? I won't be paying $15 for the privilege though, sounds like a scam me.

Darren
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aloges
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 6:08 pm

Quoting Dazbo5 (Reply 5):
sounds like a scam me.

 checkmark  It's no more than a nice way to make x times $15.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Rara
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:40 pm

I offer anyone who can prove to me that the sky is blue a reward of 100 Euros.

The definition of "sky" and "blue" shall be up to me.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
futurecaptain
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:51 pm

It's the perfect challenge. Try to prove the existence of something that doesn't exist. Perhaps the website thinks they can make a few bucks off some people trying though.
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northstardc4m
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:10 pm

Quoting Dazbo5 (Reply 5):
Just look at what's happened in Britain over the last 2 years: hottest summer on record in 2006 followed by the wettest summer on record in 2007. Something is seriously effecting our weather patterns and global warming is the likely culprit.

This kind of mentality is part of the problem. Climate is NOT something you can look at over 2-3 years and say "OMG we caused it to change!". When we are talking about global warming, we are talking 1 degree rise in average temperature over 5-10 years or more. And these trends are not apparent in temperate climates just because they have so much variation. Europe will see a major cold snap in the next decade more than likely, and another drought at some point... Local weather varies greatly year to year. Just because this year is hotter or colder means diddly squat. Human action may well be affecting climate, however the world isn't going to end tomorrow because of it either.

Anyways, this challenge looks like a scam to me. $15 to enter, they are gonna make millions and then choose some 8 year olds "proof" of human induced global warming... steer well clear i say.
Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
 
Klaus
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:28 pm

It's a scam. And the presentation betrays fundamental misunderstandings about how science operates.
 
dl021
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
It's a scam. And the presentation betrays fundamental misunderstandings about how science operates.

So...I'll pay your entry fee if you submit to me your rebuttal. I'd like to see it.

Global warming? Sure.....

Are we causing it? Maybe.....I do know that the city of Atlanta is on average three to five degrees warmer than Stone Mountain or Douglasville. How much does the heat retention properties of concrete and asphalt have to do with the increase in temperatures?

How much does the production of energy have to do with it?

What's the real answer going to be?


Hasn't the Earth been warming up since the Ice Age? What caused that before we industrialized?
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ConcordeBoy
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 9):
This kind of mentality is part of the problem. Climate is NOT something you can look at over 2-3 years and say "OMG we caused it to change!".

THANK YOU!

Quoting Klaus (Reply 10):
betrays fundamental misunderstandings about how science operates

...perhaps you mean "portrays", ya know, as do the vast majority of the Global Warming's gonna get us types?
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre c'est impossible sans Concorde!
 
Klaus
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:15 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 11):
So...I'll pay your entry fee if you submit to me your rebuttal. I'd like to see it.

Since they have no clue about scientific work anyway, there's nothing to actually rebut there.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 11):
Global warming? Sure.....

It's based on measurements and increasingly accurate models. And it is a reality, whether your eyes are open or not.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 11):
Hasn't the Earth been warming up since the Ice Age?

No, not at the rapidly accelerating pace we've seen since industrialization began.

Quoting ConcordeBoy (Reply 12):
...perhaps you mean "portrays", ya know, as do the vast majority of the Global Warming's gonna get us types?

Whether you realize it or not, the vast majority of climatologists doing actual scientific work are in agreement that it is a) an accelerating trend and b) beyond reasonable doubt a consequence of human activity to at least a significant degree.

For some people denial is a lifestyle - that still doesn't negate reality.
 
futurecaptain
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:58 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
No, not at the rapidly accelerating pace we've seen since industrialization began.

Hmm, so what your saying is this.

Burning fossil fuels raises CO2 concentrations in the air. This leads to higher temps. Warmer oceans lead to more frequent and devistating storms which will kill us all.

B, C, and D followed A, therefore A must have caused B, C, and D.
Sure, if you overlook the relatively quiet 2006 hurricane season and the weather people lowering storm estimates this year.

Or...

Higher CO2 levels leads to higher temps. Ice melts causing ocean levels to rise. Everyone dies.

Sure, if you skip over the studies that show more ice in Antarctica, not less. Or higher temps in Greenland before I ever owned an air-conditioner and a car.

Why does every prediction of global disaster rely on computer modelling? Don't these models rely on data on the front end with assumptions built in to yield a result? Not saying anyone has done this, but why can't people fudge the numbers a bit to yield a result they want?

In the 70's magazines were talking of a global cooling trend and another ice age. Have temperatures risen in the last 30 years? Probably. Is this man made? Prove it.

Is it really time to wreak the global economy on the off chance we might achieve a degree or two of global cooling by the end of the decade?
AirSO. ASpaceO. ASOnline. ASO.com ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO. ASO.
 
dazbo5
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Thu Aug 09, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 9):
This kind of mentality is part of the problem. Climate is NOT something you can look at over 2-3 years and say "OMG we caused it to change!".

If you read the rest of my post, you'll notice I refer to long term changes. That was just an example. As someone who works in the environment industry and partially deal with the impacts of climate change, I'm well aware of the science behind it all. I don't want to get in to a debate about it here since it's been covered many times.

Darren
Equipment: 2x Canon EOS 50D; Sigma 10-20 EX DC HSM, 50-500 EX APO DG, Canon 24-105 f/4 L, Speedlite 430EX
 
ConcordeBoy
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:34 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
the vast majority of climatologists doing actual scientific work are in agreement that it is a) an accelerating trend and b) beyond reasonable doubt a consequence of human activity to at least a significant degree.

...two words: show proof
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dl021
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:25 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
Whether you realize it or not, the vast majority of climatologists doing actual scientific work are in agreement that it is a) an accelerating trend and b) beyond reasonable doubt a consequence of human activity to at least a significant degree.

Along with the proof why don't you show your realistic solution. And answer the question "will we make a reverse impact if we cease using all internal combustion engines, and all coal fired power plants across the world?"
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
Klaus
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 6:11 am

Quoting Futurecaptain (Reply 14):
Hmm, so what your saying is this.

Burning fossil fuels raises CO2 concentrations in the air. This leads to higher temps. Warmer oceans lead to more frequent and devistating storms which will kill us all.

Nonsense. I've said nothing like that. The actual scientific research is readly available on the internet, so I see little reason to spend my limited time on debunking the fallacies du jour all over again.
 
RJdxer
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 3):
But with them, it sounds like a witch hunt that you have to pay to enter.

Sort of like the inquistion the economy is supposed to be wrecked to pay for.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
It's based on measurements and increasingly accurate models. And it is a reality, whether your eyes are open or not.



Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
For some people denial is a lifestyle - that still doesn't negate reality.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmmmmm.....aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmm

The usual insult. If you dare question the "science" you are in a state of denial. Just like religions of old. But yet rather than take a paid for chance on 100 large, you pass. Now that shows conviction!
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
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falstaff
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:42 am

Quoting Dazbo5 (Reply 5):
Just look at what's happened in Britain over the last 2 years: hottest summer on record in 2006 followed by the wettest summer on record in 2007.

The hottest summer on record in the USA was in 1934. 1954 was also a hot one with some odd weather in many parts of the country.

I am not saying global warming isn't an issue, but we have had hot weather before. I just don't think global warming is something that happened in the last few years. I think it has been going on for a long time.

Quoting AC773 (Reply 1):
I wonder if these anti-global warming people could actually come up with the money if required.

A lot of anti global warming organizations (oil, coal, etc0 have plenty of money.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 11):
Are we causing it? Maybe.....I do know that the city of Atlanta is on average three to five degrees warmer than Stone Mountain or Douglasville. How much does the heat retention properties of concrete and asphalt have to do with the increase in temperatures?

I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know that most large cities hotter than the surrounding areas.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
dl021
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:47 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 20):
I don't know the answer to that question, but I do know that most large cities hotter than the surrounding areas.

I do wonder what the solution to that is.....that much heat retention has got to be a factor in some environmental record keeping.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
The actual scientific research is readly available on the internet,

Pictures of Bigfoot/Sasquatch are available on the interweb

along with a very interesting group of people who believe that the earth is flat. They have science, too. http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Wikipedia is also a web based research tool.......edited mostly by teenagers.

Now...how about your theories on how to stop the warming through human action.
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falstaff
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:52 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 21):
Pictures of Bigfoot/Sasquatch are available on the interweb

along with a very interesting group of people who believe that the earth is flat. They have science, too

I once wrote a paper in high school detailing how pollution control on cars led to the downfall of American society. I talked about how US unemployment and crime was all related the use of catalytic converters.

The goal of the assignment was to write a theory that was nonsense and support it with made up facts. What it was supposed to show that anything can sound good if it is written well.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
N231YE
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:56 am

Interesting, the whole entire site is devoted to anti-global warming. Therefore, no minds will change, and its one big scam. Besides, those that are educated would rather write a thesis than pay $15 to a anti-warming website.

If you understand science...it is clear that man-made global warming is a reality. However, I can see the other side of the debate, in that there are other things to consider (such as solar output), to how much are humans actually affecting the temperatures...there may be more outside factors, there may be more evidence to human influence...just like medical research, new things are constantly found, as other questions open up.
 
dl021
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:56 am

Quoting Falstaff (Reply 22):
The goal of the assignment was to write a theory that was nonsense and support it with made up facts. What it was supposed to show that anything can sound good if it is written well.

Hey!....You're qualified to write for the New York TImes AND the New Republic!!! Congrats!!!!
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:57 am

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 19):
Sort of like the inquistion the economy is supposed to be wrecked to pay for.

Okay? Not sure if you missed a word there, but can you clairify that for me? Thanks.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
dl021
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:03 am

Quoting N231YE (Reply 23):
.it is clear that man-made global warming is a reality. However, I can see the other side of the debate, in that there are other things to consider (such as solar output), to how much are humans actually affecting the temperatures...

Well put. I'm certain that we've had something to do with some of the temperature increase.....I wonder whether we can change it. I'd like less smog. I'd certainly like to figure out how we're going to feed ourselves in 50 or a 100 years (you organic food screamers answer that one)....and I'd like to see how we're going to solve our water problem.

I'm thinking there's alot of environmental stuff to work on. I still want to hear what the solution to manmade global warming is, after it's proven that we're the primary culprit.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
RJdxer
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:37 pm

Quoting DavestanKSAN (Reply 25):
Okay? Not sure if you missed a word there, but can you clairify that for me? Thanks.

No, no words missed, you were equating the contest to a witch hunt and I equated the global warming crowd to the inquisition. If you dare utter a blasphemy they are on you like a pack of rabid wolves so important is it to protect their beliefs. No matter what the cost to society, even if the science they use is only backed up by conjecture given what hard facts they have (100-150 years of hard data), society must go through some sort of major upheaval to satisfy them. I find it ludicrous to hear people say there are "more" tropical storms now than in the past (insert number of years here) when up until the age of satellites there was not reliable way to know exactly what was brewing beyond the horizion.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
AA787823
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:46 pm

I personally do not believe Global Warning is real. I think it is a fallacy created by democrats to attack industry business.
It seems just as warm now as it did 20 years ago.
F.U.R.P.....Families Under Reduced Pay
 
davestanKSAN
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 12:54 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 27):

Ah okay, my bad, sorry about that. I know this may be shocking but I agree with you on some parts.

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 28):
I think it is a fallacy created by democrats to attack industry business.

 rotfl 

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
Klaus
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 5:44 pm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 21):
Pictures of Bigfoot/Sasquatch are available on the interweb  
along with a very interesting group of people who believe that the earth is flat. They have science, too. http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djubl...y.htm

I see. What about actual scientific research is it that you don't seem to understand? You don't seem to be able to distinguish between scientific research and junk science.

The former is subjected to strict rules of observation, testable hypotheses and incessant verification, the other just makes stuff up at will.

The difference is not in using similar-sounding words, the difference is in actual testing and independently repeatable verification.

In general, research projects which are peer-reviewed in reputable scientific publications have much higher weight than unverified hypotheses proposed by political pressure groups. And climate change does unfortunately stand up to the intense scrutiny it has been subjected to. Obfuscation in the US public notwithstanding.
 
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aloha73g
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 7:50 pm

Here is Aloha73g's opinion/logic regarding global warming:

1. What is the perfect "temperature" of the earth?

2. Who decided that?

3. Why?

4. Has the earth always been this "perfect temperature?"

The first 3 questions (for me) explain why any theories about global warming are meaningless.

The answer to #4 is: NO, the earth has always fluctuated in temperature....from very hot, to very cold. Thats life.

So then I ask....

5. Why are we trying to stop something that has been happening naturally for billions of years because of 150 years of "alarming" data?

The amount of time we have temperature data (we'll say 150 years) represents 0.000003% of the Earth's existence (4.5 billion years).

Statistically insignificant in the grand scheme of things??

I think so.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
oly720man
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:26 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...idUSN0837368420070809?pageNumber=1

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Global warming is forecast to set in with a vengeance after 2009, with at least half of the five following years expected to be hotter than 1998, the warmest year on record, scientists reported on Thursday.

"There is ... particular interest in the coming decade, which represents a key planning horizon for infrastructure upgrades, insurance, energy policy and business development," Smith and his co-authors noted.

The real heat will start after 2009, they said.

Until then, the natural forces will offset the expected warming caused by human activities, such as the burning of fossil fuels, which releases the greenhouse gas carbon dioxide.



We shall see what comes to pass.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
HowSwedeitis
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:26 pm

Eh, global warming or not, we're all going on December 21st 2012 anyway... the Mayan calender ends... and we all perish.
Heja Sverige!!
 
oly720man
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting HowSwedeitis (Reply 33):
Eh, global warming or not, we're all going on December 21st 2012 anyway... the Mayan calender ends... and we all perish.

Or not....

"For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla. To render Dec. 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
HowSwedeitis
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RE: The $100,000 Global Warming Challenge

Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:45 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 34):
as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."

She is clearly bi-passing the ancient stone piece that was preserved from the Spanish takeover that depicts 2012 with a woman pouring water over the drowning mortals in the village... Sounds like a big celebration to me...
 sarcastic 
Heja Sverige!!

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