BCAInfoSys
Topic Author
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Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:19 am

Disclaimer: This thread is for the discussion of home defense and related subjects. This is not to discuss whether owning a weapon is immoral, Hillary or Obama is the better candidate, how GWB is the devil incarnate, or any other topic of conversation. Unless you have some constructive/practical infornation to contribute to the discussion, please refrain from joining in. Thank you.


OK gents.. I've got another responsible gun owner question for you. What factors should I consider when placing a home defense weapon? What things should I consider? (Lines of sight, ease of access, limiting access to those that shouldn't have it, etc?)

The story behind this is that I have been informed that my right to carry is now severely diminished. As a CWP holder in good standing, I can no longer carry about 90% of the time that I am out-and-about. (If you want the full story, let me know and I'll share.) SO, the weapon which was located in my truck now needs to come into the house. I have an XD .40 which I keep near the bed (on the 2nd level), and now I'm looking to place the Ruger P345 .45 on the main level. What recommendations would you have? What kind of locations are central, easy to access, while not inviting the attention of those who shouldn't be in possession of my weapon?

Thanks for your (constructive) feedback.  

Edit: I live in a 2-story house on a cul-de-sac corner with my girlfriend. We have no children in the home and no young visitors; only occassional guests (usually co-workers).

[Edited 2007-08-12 22:27:09]
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:33 am

Suggestion: Why don't you get yourself a few of these small, not too expensive safes with a key code lock? Maybe one in the bedroom, one in the sitting room and one close to the entry door? You could leave your gun in one of these, they would be quickly reachable in case of need and locked away from people who are not supposed to get access to them. Maybe put one gun in each, so that there'll always be a gun in your reach.
It should be safe for children and if your hozse got burgled, you wouldn't accidentally arm a burglar.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
L-188
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:39 am

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Thread starter):
(Lines of sight, ease of access, limiting access to those that shouldn't have it, etc?)

I don't think the first item on that list is that important, the last two however are.

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Thread starter):
What kind of locations are central, easy to access, while not inviting the attention of those who shouldn't be in possession of my weapon?

I would have to be in your house to know that. I would looks for spots that are easy to get to but not obvious. A cabinent rather then on a shelf for example (I am assuming you will invest in a safe).

Quoting BCAInfoSys (Thread starter):
We have no children in the home and no young visitors

Be very careful where you select, it is amazing where kids can end up, and you might not be prepared to outsmart them since you don't have any.

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
Why don't you get yourself a few of these small, not too expensive safes with a key code lock? Maybe one in the bedroom, one in the sitting room and one close to the entry door? You could leave your gun in one of these, they would be quickly reachable in case of need and locked away from people who are not supposed to get access to them. Maybe put one gun in each, so that there'll always be a gun in your reach.

Excellent suggestion, I was thinking of this type of safe also in my other response when I said put it in a cabinent.

Although I would recommend not putting it by the door. If you have to retreat into your house to retreive the weapon you are in a better position legal/defensively IMHO then if you have to shoot the perp right at the door.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
Although I would recommend not putting it by the door. If you have to retreat into your house to retreive the weapon you are in a better position legal/defensively IMHO then if you have to shoot the perp right at the door.

I was thinking about an experience by another airnutter a few years ago. He was in his basement, cleaning his rifles, when he heard his mother screaming above. He grabbed a Ruger Mini 14 he was just finished cleaning, pushed a magazine in and found his mother desperately trying to push the entry door closed, while some punk was trying to force his way in (thinking that an elderly woman would be alone at home).
He stuck the barrel of the rifle over his mother's shoulder straight into the perp's face thorough the gap in the door.
The perp got the message and legged it.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
L-188
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:00 am

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
was thinking about an experience by another airnutter a few years ago. He was in his basement, cleaning his rifles, when he heard his mother screaming above. He grabbed a Ruger Mini 14 he was just finished cleaning, pushed a magazine in and found his mother desperately trying to push the entry door closed, while some punk was trying to force his way in (thinking that an elderly woman would be alone at home).
He stuck the barrel of the rifle over his mother's shoulder straight into the perp's face thorough the gap in the door.
The perp got the message and legged it.

Glad to hear that turned out ok.

I am coming from the view that in a similar situation you are going to need to have time to retrieve the weapon and load it (I am not big on storing loaded weapons. Loaded magazines in safe next to the pistols ok, but not in the weapon proper). In my mind that means retreating into the interior of the house, and using any time that you can gain to get the weapon out of the safe and preping it to fire. From what you describe your freinds mom had her hands full holding the door shut, so I don't think having a weapon close would have made a difference, I don't think she was in a position to retrieve it.

This means that you have to practice the use of the safe and the weapon for speed, but I also think most gun owners don't go to the range nearly enough (myself included).
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miamiair
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:09 am

The coded safes that hold a pistol are great ideas. I have one in the bedroom. I have another in the garage, since that is where I am a lot of time. A long time ago, I use to keep a 1911 in bookshelf. I had a book "History of the Punic Wars," hollowed out to the pistol's shape. This isn't such a great idea nowadays.

Stick with the code safes and if you have to, camouflage it.
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zak
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:20 am

imagine having a smart weapon (usually disabling nonlethal) that acts intelligently, on its own initiative, responding to its built in SUPER MEGA HYPER ALERT SYSTEM HAXX, disabling the offender quickly. all this while immiting a special finetuned noise designed to wake me up in an alert way, utilizing my inbred genetical instincts. this super great weapon should come in groups of 2-3. but will act alone. it is not possible to be used against the homeowners or friends of the family.

dogs > pistols.

my home defense weapons have picked their spots, but tend to loiter around at nighttime, sleeping in different places every few hours. they surely have favourite locations, but nothing someone who would "infiltrate" the house would be able to make a pattern out of, after all, its about home defense eh?  Wink

[Edited 2007-08-12 23:21:55]
10=2
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
I am coming from the view that in a similar situation you are going to need to have time to retrieve the weapon and load it (I am not big on storing loaded weapons. Loaded magazines in safe next to the pistols ok, but not in the weapon proper). In my mind that means retreating into the interior of the house, and using any time that you can gain to get the weapon out of the safe and preping it to fire. From what you describe your freinds mom had her hands full holding the door shut, so I don't think having a weapon close would have made a difference, I don't think she was in a position to retrieve it.

This means that you have to practice the use of the safe and the weapon for speed, but I also think most gun owners don't go to the range nearly enough (myself included).

Concering these aspects, I think you are right. A tactical retreat into the house, giving you a minute more to get and cock the gun will help, also, since you know your own house better than any intruder, you can set up an ambush.

Quoting Zak (Reply 6):
dogs > pistols.

my home defense weapons have picked their spots, but tend to loiter around at nighttime, sleeping in different places every few hours. they surely have favourite locations, but nothing someone who would "infiltrate" the house would be able to make a pattern out of, after all, its about home defense eh? Wink

Dogs are good, but depending on the region I'm in, I would reinforce them with guns. Not necessarily in Germany, but if I was e.g. living in the Philippines, in the province where my girlfriend comes from (close to area of operation of several Muslim rebel and bandit groups (the borders between political rebels and gangsters are moving all the time), who like to kidnap people for ransom or political demands), I would get myself some dogs of the Labrador-Rottweiler type mix plus e.g. a pump action shot gun for each adult family member (or for the ladies an old fashioned 30 M1 carbine, light, easy to handle for a rather petite woman, like my girlfriend and due to the low power of the round, little danger of the bullet penetrating the rather thin walls and injuring a neighbour. BTW, my girlfriend is used to guns from back home. Her brother is a police officer and, as it is customary there, he owns his own .45cal pistol, though I don't know of which brand it is.).

Jan
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bhill
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:36 am

Hmmm..regardless of where you keep it..that is if no kids are around..what about an early warning system as a first level of defence..like a dog or alarm system..that might help with the time you need to arm yourself. Again..if you do not need to concern yourself with the wrong people getting to your weapon, you could keep it in any place that is unsecured but out of site for fast "deployment". Kind of like the different rings of defence model, with you in the center....
Carpe Pices
 
zak
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:40 am

yeah jan i hear ya. i am talking "western first world" since thats my understanding of the initial posting, i would have a gun up each sleeve if i had to live in a place with "take anything you want" attitude and bandit proliferation.
on the other hand i'd make a habit of not making it my permanent residence either  Wink
10=2
 
SlamClick
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RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:42 am



Just follow the instructions.

Seriously:

  • Obey local laws!

  • There is no excuse for a child getting ahold of a gun unsupervised. None!


  • I'm still tweaking my solutions.

    edit: stupid control

    [Edited 2007-08-12 23:46:35]

    [Edited 2007-08-12 23:48:01]

    [Edited 2007-08-12 23:48:58]
    Happiness is not seeing another trite Ste. Maarten photo all week long.
     
    bhill
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:46 am

    Yep..Slamclick has it..just don't buy the blue ones...
    Carpe Pices
     
    BCAInfoSys
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:30 am

    Quoting SlamClick (Reply 10):
    Obey local laws!

    There is no excuse for a child getting ahold of a gun unsupervised. None!

    I absolutely 110% agree on both counts! I have researched the local laws and have become very familiar with them. And if I ever have a child in my home, my weapons will be locked and out of reach. However, whereas I live in a situation where it's two adults who are familiar and trained with the operation of the weapons, I'm not sure a safe is 100% neccessary.

    I'm thinking about a location that's central (easy to get to on a few seconds noitce), and is easy to access (doesn't require several steps: such as opening a closet and a case), while still not something someone would notice/see.

    I was contemplating the idea of on top of the ktichen cupboards. They're approximately 8 feet tall and have a decorative molding which provide a lip-type device which prevents casual observors from knowing it's there. (You would literally have to step up onto the counter and look onto the top of the cupboard to know it's there.)

    Is that a decent idea? Or am I setting myself up for trouble?
    Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
     
    MD11Engineer
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:50 am

    Quoting Bhill (Reply 8):
    Again..if you do not need to concern yourself with the wrong people getting to your weapon, you could keep it in any place that is unsecured but out of site for fast "deployment".

    But with the risk of accidentally arming a burglar. E.g. you are coming back home from a night out and a burlar is inside your place. There is the risk of him finding the gun and using it against you. A gun inside a safe is not as easily accessible for him (he has to crack the safe first).

    Jan
    Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
     
    MDorBust
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:57 am

    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=148194

    If there's anything children ignore more in a house, it's the art on the walls.
    "I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
     
    Dougloid
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:05 am

    12 Gauge pump shotgun hanging in a holster on the inside of the bedroom door. Bandolier next to it.

    Not if you have kids in the house.
    If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
     
    dl021
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:22 am

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
    Why don't you get yourself a few of these small, not too expensive safes with a key code lock?

    rhis is the best solution if you insist on making a pistol/revolver your primary home defense weapon. other than that listen to dougloid....
    Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
     
    fr8mech
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:25 pm

    Quoting Zak (Reply 6):
    dogs > pistols

    Both are in my inventory.

    Since I have young children, there are no loaded guns in the house that are not under lock and key or at least a coded box.

    As I've said in this forum in the past: my dogs' primary function in the event of a break-in, or such, is to occupy to intruder to give me enough me to get to a firearm. The dobermann will do that job adequately, I'm not so sure of the aussie/lab mix.

    To answer the question: 1 loaded revolver (.357) in a coded lockbox in the bedroom up above the kids' current reach level. That will be difficult in the very near future and I'll need to rethink placement/concealment, but still locked. 1 loaded shotgun (alternating slug/ #4 ball) in a gun locker in the basement (finished and my domain, along with those intrusive kids). There is also an AR15 clone that can be loaded in about 10 seconds if it becomes necessary.

    I also keep a loaded Glock in the glove box. This is starting to concern me as the kids get older.
    When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
     
    MD11Engineer
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:27 am

    Just been thinking about something:
    How about having a fortified room inside the house (kind of pillbox structure with loop holes leading into the neighbouring rooms, which are normally concealed in daily use, and a solid steel door with a concrete wall at right angles behind it as a bullet trap, also covered by a loop hole), so that in case of a serious attack on your place (I'm talking now about a scenario like I've heard from the southern Philippines, with armed gangs raiding houses to capture hostages for ransom) you can get e.g. the children to safety, make a stand and win time until e.g. the police or military arrive. Kind of prepared defensive position in the house.

    Jan
    Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
     
    fr8mech
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:32 am

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 18):
    Kind of prepared defensive position in the house.

    A panic room. For the paranoid among us, or those living in some of the more 'exciting' places in the world.
    When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
     
    MDorBust
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:33 am

    MD11Engineer, Panic Rooms/Safe Rooms (bad movie not withstanding) have been in practice for many years. They really aren't economically practical for most people, but are somewhat common amongst the rich and paranoid crowd. There are all sorts of them in use. Any where from simply reinforcing and fortifying a normal room all the way to very expensive types that were engineered and built into the building from it's creation. Some can be very elaborate and are almost self sustaining bunkers.
    "I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
     
    MD11Engineer
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:58 am

    Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):
    MD11Engineer, Panic Rooms/Safe Rooms (bad movie not withstanding) have been in practice for many years. They really aren't economically practical for most people, but are somewhat common amongst the rich and paranoid crowd. There are all sorts of them in use. Any where from simply reinforcing and fortifying a normal room all the way to very expensive types that were engineered and built into the building from it's creation. Some can be very elaborate and are almost self sustaining bunkers.

    Back during the Cold War, the German government paid subsedies if you installed a bomb/fall out shelter in your house, a complete subterranean bunker with airlock, filtered air and water supply and stocks of food for seceral weeks, though without the defensive measures.

    A panic room can be set up that it can be used as a normal room, e.g as a storage room or with bullet proof shutters over existing windows.

    I read that back during the war of independence in former Rhodesia (today Zimbabwe), European farmers were targeted by guerilla groups, especially remote farms, and that many farmers fortified their houses into paramilitary camps, with barbed wire obstacles, sandbags, search lights, machine gun posts, wire mesh to catch RPG and mortar bombs and slit trenches as fighting positions.


    Another topic:
    If more than one person is living in a house (both firearms trained), wouldn't it also make sense to develop some tactics (e.g. covering each other's back, setting up an ambush for intruders, or e.g. one person establishing a fire base and the other one doing a flanking attack) and practicing it BEFORE an actual intrusion, even if it is just to prevent them from shooting each other by accident?

    Jan
    Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
     
    jafa39
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:15 am

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Thread starter):
    Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Firmly and squarely in the intruders head!!!!

    Quoting Zak (Reply 9):
    yeah jan i hear ya. i am talking "western first world" since thats my understanding of the initial posting, i would have a gun up each sleeve if i had to live in a place with "take anything you want" attitude and bandit proliferation.
    on the other hand i'd make a habit of not making it my permanent residence either

    Gotta agree with Zak here, I wouldn't live anywhere that dangerous...true, it can happen anywhere but in some areas its practically part of the lifestyle.

    Having said that, I believe attack is the best form of defense and would probably have a hidden basement to hide the bodies...no-one is gonna miss scum like that!!
    We, the undersigned, do hereby consent.....
     
    fr8mech
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:30 am

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 21):
    If more than one person is living in a house (both firearms trained), wouldn't it also make sense to develop some tactics (e.g. covering each other's back, setting up an ambush for intruders, or e.g. one person establishing a fire base and the other one doing a flanking attack) and practicing it BEFORE an actual intrusion, even if it is just to prevent them from shooting each other by accident?

    Guns and Ammo Magazine had an article about that just last month. It really wasn't about setting up ambushes and such, but how 2 armed people can move through their home using covering tactics and concealment.
    When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
     
    allstarflyer
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:08 am

    Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 23):
    Guns and Ammo Magazine had an article about that just last month.

    I have the issue right in front of me - thanks CRC for finally sending me the magazines I want. I really like what I'm reading about fingerprint recognition. The GVB 2000 Biometric looks like something worth the money.
    Living the American Dream
     
    MD11Engineer
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:52 pm

    Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 24):
    I have the issue right in front of me - thanks CRC for finally sending me the magazines I want. I really like what I'm reading about fingerprint recognition. The GVB 2000 Biometric looks like something worth the money.

    Careful with fingerprint recognition. In Hannover Airport they use fingerprint scanners together with the airside badges for access to the security area. While fingerprint recognition is generally no problem with office people, us technicians had problems, since our finger tips are often worn down or dirty from stuff which doesn't go off when washing hands, and then the scanner would not recognise the fingerprints. E.g. in my case the scanner would not recognise the prints of the index fingers (too much wear). I had to use other fingers instead (the badge stores two fingerprints in a chip and access doors to airside will only open after the identity of the badge wearer has been confirmed by checking the fingerprints).

    Jan
    Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
     
    fr8mech
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Wed Aug 15, 2007 9:56 pm

    Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 24):
    I really like what I'm reading about fingerprint recognition.

    Anyone have any experience with this:

    http://www.nragunsafe.com/
    When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
     
    miamiair
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Wed Aug 15, 2007 10:36 pm

    Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 26):
    Anyone have any experience with this

    No. If it works properly, I'd rather have it than the fingertip safes.
    Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
     
    TheCol
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:55 pm

    Ideally, firearms should be stored at a secure range or gun club facility. However, at home, all firearms should have trigger locks, stored inside a locked safe or closet, inside a locked room. This prevents them from coming into the possession of minors and thieves.
    No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
     
    Queso
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:09 am

    Since there have been many replies so far and several aspects of this have been brought up, I am going to break this up to address similar issues.

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Thread starter):
    What factors should I consider when placing a home defense weapon? What things should I consider? (Lines of sight, ease of access, limiting access to those that shouldn't have it, etc?)



    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Thread starter):
    I have an XD .40 which I keep near the bed (on the 2nd level), and now I'm looking to place the Ruger P345 .45 on the main level. What recommendations would you have? What kind of locations are central, easy to access, while not inviting the attention of those who shouldn't be in possession of my weapon?



    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Thread starter):
    I live in a 2-story house on a cul-de-sac corner with my girlfriend. We have no children in the home and no young visitors; only occassional guests (usually co-workers).



    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 12):
    I was contemplating the idea of on top of the ktichen cupboards. They're approximately 8 feet tall and have a decorative molding which provide a lip-type device which prevents casual observors from knowing it's there. (You would literally have to step up onto the counter and look onto the top of the cupboard to know it's there.)

    Is that a decent idea? Or am I setting myself up for trouble?

    You've already thought this out pretty well it appears. There is no perfect solution for everyone, but the idea you had above the kitchen cupboards is a good place to start. The main concern I'd have with that location is the ability of your attractive but petite cohabitant to have access to this spot.

    Here are a few other things to consider that have not been mentioned yet.

    The first and main thought should be one of defense. What this really comes down to is defending the life of yourself and your girlfriend. There is no glory in taking the life of another human being. It will not make your beer colder or your erection bigger. If you and your girlfriend are asleep upstairs and you hear something unmistakably go "bump" in the night, arm and barricade yourselves and call the police. Tell the dispatcher the situation, your location within the house and give a good description of yourself and your girlfriend (hair color and clothing colors are usually sufficient). Then TELL the dispatcher to tell the responding officers your description so that they will be informed as to who the good guys are.

    Don't go downstairs, let the police come and make contact directly with the responding officers through an open window when they arrive if you can. These guys and their backup are trained on clearing a floor, you are not. There are literally hundreds of scenarios that could play out if you were to try to take on the task yourself and the last thing you need is some welfare mother suing you after she was irresponsible enough to let her 15 year old kid run with a gang at night and you took his life while he was trying to carry your 64" rear-projection screen TV out the side window of your house. If there's no threat to you or your girlfriend, stay put.

    The "best" place to put your guns is often a series of compromises and there is rarely one "best" place. Experiment with several locations to see how they work out for you and your girlfriend. You can be creative about these things too because a broken vacuum cleaner with the motor removed and the lid placed back on it would make an excellent and easily accessible hiding place but wouldn't usually be worthy of a glance from a thief because they are bulky and heavy to carry and don't bring much at a pawn shop. Hell, you could hide a Desert Eagle in an old Hoover after the motor is removed! Not that I've ever done that.  Wink

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Thread starter):
    The story behind this is that I have been informed that my right to carry is now severely diminished.

    PM me, I'd like to be aware of what's going on and help you find a solution if possible.


    The Safe discussion.....

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
    Why don't you get yourself a few of these small, not too expensive safes with a key code lock?

    Relatively slow to operate. I'm not criticizing them, each person will just have to decide for themselves if that's right for them. They are not right for me.

    Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
    This means that you have to practice the use of the safe and the weapon for speed, but I also think most gun owners don't go to the range nearly enough (myself included).

    Very good points.

    Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 24):
    I really like what I'm reading about fingerprint recognition. The GVB 2000 Biometric looks like something worth the money.

    I like the idea of those too, but MD11Engineer makes a valid point worth consideration in Reply 25. Again, it comes down to what works best for each individual.

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 12):
    whereas I live in a situation where it's two adults who are familiar and trained with the operation of the weapons, I'm not sure a safe is 100% neccessary.

    And I agree with you. I keep my primary quick-response handgun in a shoebox under my side of the bed. Nothing fancy, but it keeps the dust off of it and it's very quick to access.

    Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=148194

    If there's anything children ignore more in a house, it's the art on the walls.

    That's a damned good idea. I've thought about those myself.


    Other stuff....

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 1):
    if your hozse got burgled, you wouldn't accidentally arm a burglar.

    The little one-gun safes should not be thought of as protection from theft. They are easily compromised with time and ordinary hand tools and can be carried off almost as easily as the gun itself. They are nothing more than big trigger locks that slow down access to the gun for children and unauthorized persons.

    Quoting L-188 (Reply 2):
    Although I would recommend not putting it by the door. If you have to retreat into your house to retreive the weapon you are in a better position legal/defensively IMHO then if you have to shoot the perp right at the door.

    People, PLEASE don't EVER think that it's acceptable to shoot someone outside and drag the body back into the house. That's called "tampering with evidence" and might make an otherwise justifiable act of self-defense into murder.

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 3):
    He stuck the barrel of the rifle over his mother's shoulder straight into the perp's face thorough the gap in the door.
    The perp got the message and legged it.

    Not sure about the whole setup but if that gun barrel was as close as it sounds to the perp there is risk of him/her grabbing it. That would suck. Kicking the shit out of the door would have been amusing.

    Quoting L-188 (Reply 4):
    I am not big on storing loaded weapons. Loaded magazines in safe next to the pistols ok, but not in the weapon proper).

    I disagree. If you need a gun, you likely need it to save your life and you need it to be immediately deployable. You might not have two hands available to jack the slide on an auto, that's the beauty of a handgun. I do agree with you if we apply the "empty chamber" philosophy to a shotgun because that weapon is intended to be used two-handed and the action can be operated as the weapon is brought to bear.

    Quoting Dougloid (Reply 15):
    12 Gauge pump shotgun hanging in a holster on the inside of the bedroom door. Bandolier next to it.



    Quoting DL021 (Reply 16):
    rhis is the best solution if you insist on making a pistol/revolver your primary home defense weapon. other than that listen to dougloid....

    I agree with both of these points but BCAInfoSys and girlfriend already have two handguns and are comfortable and experienced with them.

    Quoting Zak (Reply 6):
    dogs > pistols

    That's funny, Zak. I never saw a pistol be distratcted by fresh meat or a bitch in heat. http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/episode/episode_02.html (Episode 74)

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
    Dogs are good, but depending on the region I'm in, I would reinforce them with guns.

     checkmark 

    Quoting Bhill (Reply 8):
    Hmmm..regardless of where you keep it..that is if no kids are around..what about an early warning system as a first level of defence..like a dog or alarm system..that might help with the time you need to arm yourself.

    Bhill is right on.

    Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
    But with the risk of accidentally arming a burglar. E.g. you are coming back home from a night out and a burlar is inside your place. There is the risk of him finding the gun and using it against you. A gun inside a safe is not as easily accessible for him (he has to crack the safe first).

    True. But you have to weigh that risk against other risks. Again, it is up to each person to determine what is right for their situation. My own belief is that if you are creative and careful about where you hide weapons the risk you mention is mitigated to an acceptable level.

    Quoting TheCol (Reply 28):
    Ideally, firearms should be stored at a secure range or gun club facility. However, at home, all firearms should have trigger locks, stored inside a locked safe or closet, inside a locked room. This prevents them from coming into the possession of minors and thieves.

    And tanks, fighters, aircraft carriers, destroyers, battleships and nuclear missiles should all be locked up in a safe, inaccessible place until AFTER we are attacked by hostile forces. Knives should be locked up until after dinner is ready. Chain saws should be locked up until after the firewood is cut. Hospitals should be closed until after everyone gets well.
     
    dl021
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 12:52 am

    Quoting Queso (Reply 29):
    Quoting DL021 (Reply 16):
    rhis is the best solution if you insist on making a pistol/revolver your primary home defense weapon. other than that listen to dougloid....

    I agree with both of these points but BCAInfoSys and girlfriend already have two handguns and are comfortable and experienced with them.

    OK...so here's where I have an issue. You are experienced in handling firearms, I've witnessed your familiarity first hand (and there's a difference between knowing alot about firearms and knowing how to use them). I love little Stevie like a little brother, but to describe him as adequately experienced or prepared to use a pistol for self defence in the home is probably inaccurate. 'Comfortable' can be an ignorance-is-bliss situation. Let me elaborate, because I'm not calling him silly or stupid. I've got specific points to make here.

    Has he fired a couple thousand rounds through his pistol yet? Has he fired it under duress training? Can he hit the target with the first snapshot from a darkened position? Can he shoot straight at night while pushing his girlfriend to the ground behind the bed and trying to dial 911? Could he correct a stovepipe or misfire/feed or any other malfunction while doing all of the above? There is less to worry about, and less skill or muscle memory involved with using a shotgun (although you must have some skills in order to operate it safely), as well as less risk to the neighbors or other occupants to the home with a shotgun (provided he's using common sense home defence loads).

    To say that a pistol for him is better than a shotgun is, in my slightly more than inexperienced opinion, incorrect.

    That's why I said what I said, knowing Steves experience with a firearm.

    That said he takes it seriously, and has taken the time to learn as much as he can about the laws and rules concerning safe firearms handling....so I'm not criticizing him....I'm just admonishing for safety and practicality's sake.

    I am experienced in handguns with professional training, both in and out of the military (which is not the greatest teacher of pistol handling) and have fired thousands upon thousands of rounds, some in high duress and actual combat situations.....and I keep a shotgun as my personal defence weapon for my home. There's a pistol in the fingersafe, for backup, but the shotgun is the primary middle-of-the-night-heard-a-crack-dealer-in- the-basement (have-a-crackhead/homeinvader-coming-up-the-stairs-and-the-dog's-freaking-out) defence tool.

    [Edited 2007-08-17 17:54:20]
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    MCOflyer
    Posts: 7071
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:06 am

    I'd get a small safe to prevent burglars from getting it. I must ask if you have a dog? If you ever have a place in the wall you could make a door and place the safe there.

    Hunter
    Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
     
    BCAInfoSys
    Topic Author
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:19 am

    Ian.. you may be right. For practicality's sake, a shotgun might be a good choice. I have already been shopping and am actually planning on picking up the one I've chosen in a couple of hours, during my lunch break.

    I think you may however be giving me slightly less credit then I may be due. I have spent countless hours at the range and going through stress fire drills with my instructor in SLC. In the last 12 months I have probably gone through about 3-4k rounds. While it may not be significant in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's anything to diminish either.

    I've got a lot of progress to make still, but I think I've gotten fairly far in the last 18 months of being a gun owner and CWP holder.

    Edit: After doing some research/homework, I've decided on the Mossberg 500 Tactical. It's a short-barrel, .12 gauge with a pistol grip and collapsible (M4 type) stock. What do you think? Decent choice?

    [Edited 2007-08-17 18:21:15]
    Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
     
    MDorBust
    Posts: 4914
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:31 am

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 32):
    Edit: After doing some research/homework, I've decided on the Mossberg 500 Tactical. It's a short-barrel, .12 gauge with a pistol grip and collapsible (M4 type) stock. What do you think? Decent choice?

    The USMC has trusted the Mossberg for some time now. It's an outstanding firearm.

    The Winchester 1300 Defender (out of production) and the Remmington 870 are also good shotguns to take a look at.
    "I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
     
    miamiair
    Posts: 4249
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:55 am

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 32):
    I've decided on the Mossberg 500 Tactical. It's a short-barrel, .12 gauge

    Great choice. I have one at home for this purpose. I have it loaded with #4 shot. I don't like the idea of 00 buckshot sailing in the house if I have to use it.
    Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
     
    ltbewr
    Posts: 12502
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:57 am

    A gun or handgun should be the last of a series of steps to deal with potential criminals who may enter your home. Don't forget too that having or using a loaded or even unloaded guns or like weapon may affect your homeowners liability insurance rates and coverage, check you policy.
    As some other posters have touched on, you might be better spending money on making your home a more difficult target for criminals to consider as well as adding value to your home. Criminals are less likely hit on or continue to break into homes that would blow their cover, scare them or otherwise make them fearful of getting caught. For example:
    A decent sized dog. One that barks loud and has big teeth.
    Motion sensor outdoor and indoor lighting or leaving some lights on in the house overnight (use low wattage or floresent replacement light bulbs)
    Proper fencing to make it more difficult to enter the back yard;
    Well designed windows and doors, including including sliding doors, celler windows, garage doors/windows), that make it difficullt to break in with strong mountings and frames, strong locks and using key locks inside and out;
    Careful designed, low and well maintained landscaping close to house to reduce hiding places or hiding potenital entry points;
    Professionaly installed alarm systems (like ADT);
    Keep a cell phone and line phone in your bedroom and/or in other's bedrooms to call police.
    Yes, a gun may be considered depending on your personal situations and location (like in a rural area, spread out suburbia) but there can be a lot done that can minimize the possible use of a gun.
     
    BCAInfoSys
    Topic Author
    Posts: 2617
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:59 am

    Quoting Miamiair (Reply 34):
    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 32):
    I've decided on the Mossberg 500 Tactical. It's a short-barrel, .12 gauge

    Great choice. I have one at home for this purpose. I have it loaded with #4 shot. I don't like the idea of 00 buckshot sailing in the house if I have to use it.

    Where should I locate this? I'm thinking about either a downstairs closet or the closet in the bedroom. Just on the inside of the doorframe/closet, above the door hanging on a couple of rubber bicycle hooks. Easy to get to and out of sight...
    Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
     
    Queso
    Posts: 3109
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:05 am

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 30):
    I love little Stevie like a little brother, but to describe him as adequately experienced or prepared to use a pistol for self defence in the home is probably inaccurate.

    I think the operative term here is "defense". There are many stories of little old ladies defending themselves with a snub-nose .38. As far as "prepared", that is a relative term and I'd trust the recent gun handling experience and training Steve claims to have before I'd trust someone who has been a gun owner for 20 years and only goes to the range once every six months to shoot at beer cans. There are many who keep a gun in their bedside drawer, rarely or nover practicing with it, and use it successfully to defend themselves. But training and practice are never to what I consider an "adequate" level. One can never learn "too much" or practice "too much". And if what I have hear from Steve is accurate, I think he is well above-average when compared to others in this regard.

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 30):
    Has he fired a couple thousand rounds through his pistol yet? Has he fired it under duress training? Can he hit the target with the first snapshot from a darkened position? Can he shoot straight at night while pushing his girlfriend to the ground behind the bed and trying to dial 911? Could he correct a stovepipe or misfire/feed or any other malfunction while doing all of the above?

    All of those are certainly desirable abilities and scenarios to be trained on and should be goals for anyone who is serious about self defense. But I was working with the here and now of the situation and in my opinion he should be able to defend himself with the tools he has available to him at this time.

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 30):
    There is less to worry about, and less skill or muscle memory involved with using a shotgun (although you must have some skills in order to operate it safely), as well as less risk to the neighbors or other occupants to the home with a shotgun (provided he's using common sense home defence loads).

    I agree with the first part of your statement, but I disagree that there is a substantially lowered risk to his neighbors or other occupants of the home with any serious defense shotgun load. Buckshot and slugs still penetrate several walls and birdshot is not an option. With a handgun you have a single projectile to control and with buckshot you must consider the path and deflections of multiple projectiles. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 30):
    To say that a pistol for him is better than a shotgun is, in my slightly more than inexperienced opinion, incorrect.

    We have to consider that the weapon might be used by the future Mrs. BCA as well and a 12-gauge might not be the best choice for her. A 20-gauge might be a consideration but once again let me say that Steve had not mentioned a shotgun so far in the discussion so I was going with the information I had- that being that he has two handguns available.

    Quoting DL021 (Reply 30):
    That said he takes it seriously, and has taken the time to learn as much as he can about the laws and rules concerning safe firearms handling....so I'm not criticizing him....I'm just admonishing for safety and practicality's sake.

    Same here, I am not slamming anybody or their opinions, I am just giving opinions using the information I have been presented with. He's serious about it and wants to be the best he can. That's something everyone should always strive for, myself included.

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 32):
    In the last 12 months I have probably gone through about 3-4k rounds. While it may not be significant in the grand scheme of things, I don't think it's anything to diminish either.

    That's nothing to sneeze at, as long as it was practice with a purpose. Too bad everyone can't say they've practiced that much.
     
    miamiair
    Posts: 4249
    Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:14 am

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 36):
    Where should I locate this? I'm thinking about either a downstairs closet or the closet in the bedroom. Just on the inside of the doorframe/closet, above the door hanging on a couple of rubber bicycle hooks. Easy to get to and out of sight...

    Keep it in your bedroom. What if Mr. Badguy gets in your house? You don't want to arm him as well. Keep it out of sight, but if easily accesible by you or the future Mrs.
    Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
     
    BCAInfoSys
    Topic Author
    Posts: 2617
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:19 am

    Quoting Miamiair (Reply 38):
    Keep it in your bedroom. What if Mr. Badguy gets in your house? You don't want to arm him as well. Keep it out of sight, but if easily accesible by you or the future Mrs.

    Works for me. 12 gauge hanging above the closet door on the inside of the walk-in closet. Shandi might have a little trouble reaching it, but I'll do what I can to mitigate that.
    Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
     
    fr8mech
    Posts: 6714
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:22 am

    Quoting TheCol (Reply 28):
    Ideally, firearms should be stored at a secure range or gun club facility.

    Ahhh, excuse me mister homicidal person, let me run to the gun club and get my home defense weapon of choice.

    Quoting TheCol (Reply 28):
    However, at home, all firearms should have trigger locks, stored inside a locked safe or closet, inside a locked room.

    Ahhhh, excuse me mister homicidal person, let me fumble with the keys to the closet/locker and then the trigger lock code/key. Oh, and please don't threaten me in that time frame. I don't want to drop the key or fumble the code.

    Col, I'm having a bit of fun with you, but your last bit about locks/lockers and closets brings up a good point; how many here, who store loaded guns behind a lock of some sort, practice gaining access to the weapon and making it ready to fire while in the dark and/or some stressful situation?

    I'd hazard that most of us are not trained law enforcement/military who are trained to act under significant amounts of stress, and I assure you, a firearm aimed at you, or a break-in, ratchets up the stress level.

    I advocate keeping some sort of security about your firearm, but be sure the level of security does not compromise your's.
    When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
     
    miamiair
    Posts: 4249
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:28 am

    Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 40):

    Why don't you come down to the BHM meet?
    Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
     
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    KaiGywer
    Crew
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:35 am

    Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 40):
    Col, I'm having a bit of fun with you, but your last bit about locks/lockers and closets brings up a good point; how many here, who store loaded guns behind a lock of some sort, practice gaining access to the weapon and making it ready to fire while in the dark and/or some stressful situation?

    One of my tactics professors used a very good example of this....your car keys. We all know how to unlock a door, but what happens the day you are running to your car to get away from somebody and need to open the door in a hurry? Likely you'll lose the key, fumble with the lock or just in general take a lot longer than if you were calm. Why? Because we don't have the muscle memory and training to unlock the door in a hurry.
    “Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
     
    TheCol
    Posts: 1857
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:03 am

    Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 40):

    I advocate keeping some sort of security about your firearm, but be sure the level of security does not compromise your's.

    It's all about perspective. Personally, if I didn't store mine at the range, I would keep the room unlocked until I leave the building. The safe would still be locked, so I wouldn't have to worry about kids (if I had any) getting into it.
    No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
     
    BCAInfoSys
    Topic Author
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:04 am

    Quoting Miamiair (Reply 41):
    Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 40):

    Why don't you come down to the BHM meet?

    I'll second that motion! Fr8, you show up and the first rounds of drinks are on me!  Big grin

    OK guys.. here's what I ended up getting. This MIssus is not happy about it, but what's new?  Wink So did I do ok? I think this should defend Stevie-Castle just fine...

    (Sorry about the crap quality of the pics, these were some I snapped with my cell. I can take some more when I get home if you want.)

    Big version: Width: 832 Height: 666 File size: 72kb


    Big version: Width: 666 Height: 832 File size: 98kb


    Big version: Width: 832 Height: 666 File size: 102kb


    Big version: Width: 666 Height: 832 File size: 107kb
    Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
     
    miamiair
    Posts: 4249
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:10 am

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 44):

    That should do the trick.
    Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
     
    BCAInfoSys
    Topic Author
    Posts: 2617
    Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:09 pm

    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:41 am

    Quoting Miamiair (Reply 45):
    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 44):

    That should do the trick.

    I'm going to take it out to a pit I heard about around here tomorrow to try it out; I'll be sure to let you know how she performs. I have a feeling that after 50 rounds, my shoulder will feel it a little...
    Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
     
    BCAInfoSys
    Topic Author
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:43 am

    So question for the gun gurus:

    What's the purpose of the barrel on this weapon? The dealer said something about it being a door breaching barrel and acting as a bit of a flash suppressor.

    What is it really used for? What does it buy me?
    Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
     
    miamiair
    Posts: 4249
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:14 am

    Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 47):

    I would not want to be poked with barrel. Looks like the crenelated Surefire flashlights that you can use to land some blows on your target.
    Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
     
    MDorBust
    Posts: 4914
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    RE: Where To Place A Home Defense Weapon?

    Sat Aug 18, 2007 5:26 am

    Yup, the barrel crown definately looks like it's an impact weapon. They've been showing up on firearms lately. I'm not very fond of the idea. Using your firearm as an impact weapon is not a good idea. At least it's not as stupid as the CZ pistol bayonet.

    Depending on how the cuts are arranged, and if there's any top side porting, it could act as either a muzzle brake or a flash suppressor... or both.
    "I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen

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