rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:01 am

Very interesting article here:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296450,00.html

So in a nutshell, the Germans are blocking further sanctions aimed to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program, effectively ending any chance that the world has to solve the problem diplomatically. I say to all the Europeans on this forum, DO NOT complain when the United States bombs the Iranian nuclear facilities before President Bush leaves office.

Key points:
Germany — a pivotal player among three European nations to rein in Iran's nuclear program over the last two-and-a-half years through a mixture of diplomacy and sanctions supported by the United States — notified its allies last week that the government of Chancellor Angela Merkel refuses to support the imposition of any further sanctions against Iran that could be imposed by the U.N. Security Council.

Political and military officers, as well as weapons of mass destruction specialists at the State Department, are now advising Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the diplomatic approach favored by Burns has failed and the administration must actively prepare for military intervention of some kind.

Consequently, according to a well-placed Bush administration source, "everyone in town" is now participating in a broad discussion about the costs and benefits of military action against Iran, with the likely timeframe for any such course of action being over the next eight to 10 months, after the presidential primaries have probably been decided, but well before the November 2008 elections.

The Bush administration "has just about had it with Iran," said one foreign diplomat. "They tried the diplomatic process. China is now obstructing them at the U.N. Security Council and the Russians are tucking themselves behind them.

"The Germans are wobbling …There are a number of people in the administration who do not want their legacy to be leaving behind an Iran that is nuclear armed, so they are looking at what are the alternatives? They are looking at other options," the diplomat said.

Vice President Cheney and his aides are said to be enjoying a bit of "schadenfreude" at the expense of Burns. A source described Cheney's office as effectively gloating to Burns and Rice, "We told you so. (The Iranians) are not containable diplomatically."
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:13 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Political and military officers, as well as weapons of mass destruction specialists at the State Department, are now advising Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the diplomatic approach favored by Burns has failed and the administration must actively prepare for military intervention of some kind.

Iraq not enough then. Just don't expect that gasoline will be either cheap or even easy to buy if they do go for military intervention.

We have had this all before. It made no sense then, and it makes no sense now.
 
mbmbos
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:38 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
...DO NOT complain when the United States bombs the Iranian nuclear facilities before President Bush leaves office.

So are you saying that the United States doesn't have to take responsibility for its actions? We can actually blame Germany if we attack Iran?

Are you kidding? What twisted and tortured form of logic did you use to come to that conclusion?
 
Arrow
Posts: 2325
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
We have had this all before. It made no sense then, and it makes no sense now.

If the US decides once again to make a unilateral pre-emptive military strike in the Middle East -- this time against Iran -- it will be the final nail in the coffin of the Bush Administration's foriegn policy. The mess it will leave behind for the next US president will be huge, especially on top of the existing Iraq mess.

The main problem here, regardless of what is actually happening in Iran, is that Bush/Cheney credibility, on a scale of 1-to-10, is around minus 3. I don't believe anything they say any more, and I suspect that view is shared not only by the rest of the world, but by a majority of Americans as well. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
ajd1992
Posts: 2390
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:11 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:43 am

Don't complain when they retaliate with nuclear bombs and blow your ass off the map. I'm not anti-US, or Anti-Iran, but one day somebody will give the US a bloody nose, i have a feeling it will be Iran with their crackpot leader and very powerful weapons.
 
seb146
Posts: 14060
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:52 am

Does Iran have nuclear weapons? Do they have the facilities to produce mass quantities of nuclear weapons? Have they threatened to use nuclear weapons agains any country? I know the leadership of Iran wants Isreal to go away, but do words give anyone the right to invade a soverign nation? I know all this falls on deaf ears. The administration decided a long time ago to invade Iran. This is their reason. Godspeed to us all.
Patriotic and Proud Liberal
 
sh0rtybr0wn
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:16 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:00 am

As an American,I dont think this is a good idea. Bombs are not the solution to every problem.

Bombing a country 3 times the size of Iraq will be difficult and expensive and kill many innocent people; and it will further destabilize the mid-east.....

And Then what? You can see from the Iraq experience how difficult it is to create a stable government once the previous one is destroyed.

Bombing another Islamic country will just create millions more people who hate America.

We need Diplomacy; not more "mission accomplished" and not more "shock and awe". And how did that "shock and awe" work-out anyway?
3774 dead.
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:11 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
to stop Iran's nuclear weapons program

there is no nuclear WEAPONS program in Iran. Iran, and this has recently been clairfied by Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, only has a nuclear development program for civilian purposes, for the use of nuclear energy for infrastructure projects and industrial projects.
-

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
ending any chance that the world has to solve the problem diplomatically

the "problem" just is that Iran is not respecting the guidelines of the IAEA in Vienna and is not ready as it should to allow inspections by the IAEA specialists.
-

Quoting Baroque (Reply 1):
don't expect

What they expect is that either their bombers simply can fly unhindered into Iran to do their "missions" or else that their cruise-missiles that time will be really on target.
-

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 2):
So are you saying that the United States doesn't have to take responsibility for its actions? We can actually blame Germany if we attack Iran?

-
This apparently is the new logic. Because Germany, Russia and China are against further sanctions and military intervention, any military adventure of the USA of course will be THEIR fault .
-
 
mham001
Posts: 4287
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Pla

Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:48 am

Lets ask this question. Diplomacy has NOT worked. Iran has thrown up numerous obstacles to proving they are only researching for nuclear energy. What would you do? Believe them at their word? Let them acquire the bomb? Change the balance of power in the middle east and further provoke a nuclear arms race? You tell me.

I heard a blurb yesterday from an unknown foriegn diplomat that last weeks foray by Israel into Israel was actually a bombing mission against weapon shipments from Iran through Syria to Hezbellah. The same diplomat said that weapon shipments from Iran to Afghanistan had positively been identified. I have not been able to track the source.
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:29 am

At least they have a plan.

We could let them continue with whatever they are doing, and park a bunch of satellites over Iran to watch everything leaving the country. If something leaves, it can be "checked" by special forces in another country to make sure it contains nothing of danger. I imagine it could be easy to slip a weapon into an oil tanker and detonate it in a harbor. Maybe all oil tankers and other ships coming from Iran need to be stopped and searched before being allowed near the US. and if anything is ever found, Iran is screwed.
I love ASO!
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:31 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 6):
Bombs are not the solution to every problem.

Must be a Texas thing. First, Johnson, then Bush 41, now Bush Jr.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
mbmbos
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 8):
Diplomacy has NOT worked.

According to whom? According to the current adminstration that is famous for its great accomplishments in diplomacy?

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 8):
Believe them at their word?

No, I don't believe the Iranians.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 8):
What would you do?

Gee, I didn't realize that we have an either/or choice here. This is often the rationale for justifying going to war. Limit choices, declare that diplomacy has failed, then commence with bombing.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 8):
Change the balance of power in the middle east and further provoke a nuclear arms race?

Guess what? We've already done that by de-stablizing Iraq, a natural political counter-balance to Iran. The deed was set into motion by our actions.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 8):
I have not been able to track the source.

This is typical. We are fed stories by "reliable sources" that cannot be revealed, but you can trust the information anyway because they have your best interest at heart.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:42 am

My initial fear filled thought is that this is a terribly bad idea. The US citizenry can not even decide to protect our own border , we are so divided we can not even decide if its right to protect are fu**ing border !. The liberals do not see past the next election , so looking into the future of the ME is way out of their range. It is not the liberals fault , not blaming them for everything but their view of the world IMHO is dangerously naive .

The US lacks clarity and leadership in a serious way ,, putting our military into a blurry situation again is IMHO a giant  redflag  at this point.

On the other hand ... their is no doubt in my mind that Iran is our enemy ... and a enemy of "freedom. The US is the only country left with the will and the power to oppose them at all.

The dawn of a new and very sinister future is upon us. A world where countries can threaten anyone with proxy terrorist militias and hold in check normal diplomacy and rule of law. Forget about WMD for a moment , the fact that the US is alone in opposing a rouge regime that threatens the very fiber of international law is very unfortunate. Germany , is in a very precarious situation indeed. They , like many others no doubt have the enemy within , and risk setting off a chain reaction of terror that is for all intents and purposes un defensible. Now if you enter the slight possibility that the proxy army could be someday armed with a plutonium dirty bomb...... be afraid be very afraid.

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 4):
Don't complain when they retaliate with nuclear bombs and blow your ass off the map

IMHO this is almost inevitable at this point,, With the growth of powerful economies around the world , basically it is a matter of time till our economy is not needed. That is happening now , it will take time but right now the world still needs us. Once the playing field is better balanced in our enemies favour (everyone except the UK..maybe) will feel a little more favourable to the idea of the US being gone. At this point no one will stand with us or Israel and we will be alone in our defence .... without allies we are naked to terror attacks.

So , what to do ???
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:56 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 12):
On the other hand ... their is no doubt in my mind that Iran is our enemy ... and a enemy of "freedom. The US is the only country left with the will and the power to oppose them at all.

Do you hear yourself ? "An enemy of freedom" - how so ? They have a loony president who makes a lot of empty gestures, so what ? The US has the same problem. This is just unadulterated paranoia with no basis in reality. Has Iran actually invaded anyone recently ? No. Did they launch the September 11 attacks against the US ? No. Do they have nuclear weapons ? No. Is Pakistan a dangerous miltary dictatorship hosting thousands of very dangerous Islamist radicals ? Yes. Does Pakistan have nuclear weapons ? Yes. Is the US planning to bomb Pakistan ? No.

It's irrational and baseless fear of the Iranian bogeyman that has hypnotised the US since the Iranian revolution in 1979 - all because of the hostages. Nobody's saying Iran is a beacon of stability and benevolence, far from it, but bombing them back to the Stone Age is not the solution to every problem. Didn't Iraq at least teach you that ?
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
mham001
Posts: 4287
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:01 am

Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 11):
Gee, I didn't realize that we have an either/or choice here. This is often the rationale for justifying going to war. Limit choices, declare that diplomacy has failed, then commence with bombing.

So I asked the question, which you not-so-deftly avoided, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9201
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:02 am

An attack against Iran by the US will undoubtedly put the world in a very dangerous situation.
This is EVIL. No one has any idea of what consequences such an attack could have.

The whole of the muslim world will be revolted which will certainly lead to more terrorist attacks.
BinLadens multiplied by 10.

Israel and any other supporting countries will be put in great danger.

It really looks like the US Government is going to start preparing the general public for a new war albeit a most dangerous one. Don't they have enough with Iraq they want to look for more trouble?

An attack against Iran by the U.S. will be a HUGE MISTAKE. We don't have any idea what it can lead to. This is one they better think about. What have they got in their brains? Thin air? Why does the U.S. always choose war?
Weapons of mass destruction? Mon oeil!!! (my arse in English) Lies and more lies!!!

Where is there a proof that Iran wants to have nuclear energy for military purposes? If they let India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons, why not Iran then?

Go seat around a table and talk. Peaceful arrangements can always be found.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
kaitak
Posts: 8969
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 5:49 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:21 am

Unfortunately, although I do not agree with military action against Iran, I do see it happening. The current administration - particularly Cheney, who - let's face it - is far more politically savvy and machiavellian than Bush, has always been anxious to take Iran on. Of course, with Ahmedinejad being deliberately provocative, I don't have much sympathy for Iran or the mullahs. I'd like to see them out of power, but that's really a matter for the Iranian people; has this administration learned nothing? Saddam was a thug, no doubt, but they got rid of him and now, look? Do they think Iran will be all sweetness and light after a severe bombing? They may well do, but they'd be wrong.

Ultimately, the Iran issue is ONLY going to be solved by diplomacy; allowing gunboat diplomacy and hotheads to run things will only make the situation immeasurably worse, but at the end of the day, what does this administration have to lose? Respect? How much respect or international credibility does it have to lose? Not a lot and since they're going out of office, there will be those who will say, "let's do the job now and let the next administration clean it up".

It's ridiculous to say it can't be solved by diplomacy. Exactly how effective, determined or focused have American diplomatic efforts been, because if they amount to "do what we say or we'll bomb you", that is not exactly going to encourage co-operation. There may be a tendency to regard diplomacy as a box to be ticked on the checklist leading to the desired end, i.e. military action/regime change, with the result that it is done in a way guaranteed NOT to have positive results. It is far better that the negotiations be done in a way which recognises that Iran, for all its undoubted faults, has pride as a nation (just like any other) and will not respond to threats. It will respond much more positively to a respectful approach which attempts to understand and identify its genuine, bona fide interests and to address those.

Let's hope common sense wins through, although in my heart of hearts, I guess it is a pretty forlorn hope.
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 13):
Didn't Iraq at least teach you that ?

Please read what I said , I do not believe that a military strike is a good idea. However these fears I layout are not baseless and just paranoia. They are not a reason for a preemptive strike either ... but IMHO this may be the beginning of a more threatening future.

This is larger than Iran . This is about the rest of the world powers uniting to keep the world economies and societies in some basic cohesion. Why would China and Russia not condemn Iran's snubbing of the IAEA ? Why ? could it be that they are complicate in Iran's challenge of the US ? Could it be that they see the weakening of the US as a advantage to their economic power ? Using Iran as the thorn in the side to serve the purposes of our enemies long term goals,, out of the question ?
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:45 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 17):
Using Iran as the thorn in the side to serve the purposes of our enemies long term goals,, out of the question ?

And who then are there "enemies" ? Russia and China ? Does rivalry have to mean emnity ? The US and the EU are rivals, but not enemies. Russia and China both could constitute major threats to Europe and the US if they chose, but right now they don't choose. At least not in a military sense. China seems to have considerable monetary leverage over the US right now, why would they need Iran to create a distraction ? Everyone knows what's going in, this is the information age after all.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
mham001
Posts: 4287
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 16):
Exactly how effective, determined or focused have American diplomatic efforts been, because if they amount to "do what we say or we'll bomb you", that is not exactly going to encourage co-operation.

The US diplomat who recently sat down with the Iranians testified before Congress three days ago. He stated that in his opinion, the Iranians seemed to be there only for the value of saying they were there, not to try to accomplish anything.
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9201
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:05 am

Ahmadinjihad is a clown or a makeover or whatever else you want to call him.
He is part ot the minority politically speaking. I doubt he will be re-elected.
He won't be around much longer. I am sure he will have to leave the job soon.

The mullahs are a different story.
Wasn't it what's his face Khomeiny who declared the US as being the "Great Satan"?

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 16):
with Ahmedinejad being deliberately provocative, I don't have much sympathy for Iran or the mullahs.

I am a free woman living in the Western World. I had to flight for women's rights and I do not like islam, believe me.
I have always been wary of religions.

Still I do not think this is a good enough reason to go and throw bombs on innocent people's heads just out of some politicians madness and whims whether they'd be W. Bush, Cheney, Sarközy, Ahmadinjihad or anybody else.

No war. Unless they want the whole world to go on fire.
There is great danger if the U.S. attacks Iran.
Diplomacy is the key.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Germany --- a pivotal player among three European nations to rein in Iran's nuclear program over the last two-and-a-half years through a mixture of diplomacy and sanctions supported by the United States --- notified its allies last week that the government of Chancellor Angela Merkel refuses to support the imposition of any further sanctions against Iran that could be imposed by the U.N. Security Council.

I take it they have something to gain from Iran's nuclear program, or loose from further sanctions.

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Political and military officers, as well as weapons of mass destruction specialists at the State Department, are now advising Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the diplomatic approach favored by Burns has failed and the administration must actively prepare for military intervention of some kind.

Gee, where have we heard this before? Oh, thats right, the alleged gong show that resulted in the Iraq war.

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
China is now obstructing them at the U.N. Security Council and the Russians are tucking themselves behind them.

Of course, their financial assets are far more important than collective security.  Yeah sure

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 7):
there is no nuclear WEAPONS program in Iran. Iran, and this has recently been clairfied by Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, only has a nuclear development program for civilian purposes, for the use of nuclear energy for infrastructure projects and industrial projects.

And we should believe him because...

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 7):
the "problem" just is that Iran is not respecting the guidelines of the IAEA in Vienna and is not ready as it should to allow inspections by the IAEA specialists.

I wonder why?  liar 
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
DC10extender
Posts: 573
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:09 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:16 am

Quoting Ajd1992 (Reply 4):
Don't complain when they retaliate with nuclear bombs and blow your ass off the map. I'm not anti-US, or Anti-Iran, but one day somebody will give the US a bloody nose, i have a feeling it will be Iran with their crackpot leader and very powerful weapons.

You don't know jack shit if you think that Iran will blow the U.S. off the map.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 7):
there is no nuclear WEAPONS program in Iran. Iran, and this has recently been clairfied by Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei, only has a nuclear development program for civilian purposes, for the use of nuclear energy for infrastructure projects and industrial projects.

How can you honestly believe that BS?

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 6):
Bombing another Islamic country will just create millions more people who hate America.

As long as we are a super power, people will hate us.
Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
 
huskyaviation
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:38 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:19 am

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 15):
Where is there a proof that Iran wants to have nuclear energy for military purposes? If they let India and Pakistan have nuclear weapons, why not Iran then?

First of all, we didn't "let" Pakistan and India have nuclear weapons. Pakistan swore up and down to the US that they weren't developing nuclear weapons, and Zia even gave Reagan his personal assurances. Read Reagan's newly released diaries. Of course, once it becomes public that a country has nuclear weapons, it's a little too late to do anything about it.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:24 am

Quoting DC10extender (Reply 22):
As long as we are a super power, people will hate us.

There you go again. Nobody hates you, or hates your "freedoms". That is just a myth put about by the administration to keep Americans afraid. People sometimes get annoyed with you for invading places and supporting undemocratic regimes etc etc, but no sane person "hates" a country. Politics isn't about love or hate, it's about money and power. Just as war is diplomacy by other means, terrorism is politics by other means.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
Toast
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:04 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:26 am

Ah, yes. Resorting to violence when you're out of arguments. How very mature, mister Bush. Or is it Cheney?

Any proof of Iran building nuclear weapons? Nope. Any proof that they're a danger for the US? No, but since when have niceties like this stopped the White House?

Any details about the negotiations you claim to have conducted? Or are you pulling all this out of your spacious ass again?

Go ahead, Bush, bomb the Iranian nuclear research facilities. It's a brilliant idea. Even if by chance you hit them instead of a kindergarten, what do you achieve? Massive nuclear fallout, a country of 70 million well-armed and justly pissed-off people (I'm sure you're not aware, George, but 70 million people is much more than pre-WWII Germany), and the entire planet against you. Barring the ever-dependable Israelis, you're alone, cowboy. You failed miserably in Iraq, but feel like taking on the whole planet now, you irresponsible, bigoted, utterly discredited cretin?

Somebody please remove this moron from power before he sends the world over the edge.

I hope that he finishes like Milosevic, in a padded cell in the Hague. Never have the United States spawned such a criminally insane leader.
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9201
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:27 am

Why they did not look into Pakistan's hair lice as closely as they are doing for Iran right now?

This is not a good enough reason for the U.S. to go and attack Iran.

Again, where is the proof that they intend to use nuclear energy/research for military purposes?

Ahmadinjihad is a big mouth. He is provocative OK but W. Bush is just as provocative as him maybe even more.
We very well know which one between the two has the most weapons of mass destruction and thus can do more harm than the other.

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 23):
Of course, once it becomes public that a country has nuclear weapons, it's a little too late to do anything about it.
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
mt99
Posts: 6166
Joined: Wed May 26, 1999 5:41 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:33 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
effectively ending any chance that the world has to solve the problem diplomatically

Whatever.. there had never been a chance of that happening with GWB on board.
Step into my office, baby
 
huskyaviation
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:38 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting RJpieces (Thread starter):
Germany — a pivotal player among three European nations to rein in Iran's nuclear program over the last two-and-a-half years through a mixture of diplomacy and sanctions supported by the United States — notified its allies last week that the government of Chancellor Angela Merkel refuses to support the imposition of any further sanctions against Iran that could be imposed by the U.N. Security Council.

If US foreign policy is so diasastrously evil, as many of you claim on here, I'd like to know why you or your respective countries don't argue for the EU to actually take a diplomatic lead on something and bring the players to the table. But that won't happen, because Germany wants to protect their own economic interests in Iran, just like France wanted to protect its own valuable contracts in Iraq. That's on par with all who accuse the US of invading Iraq just for the oil.

I don't support bombing Iran, I think at the moment it would be a bad idea given the geopolitical environment and the Bush administration's global reputation. Diplomacy should be given time to work--war should always be the last resort to any problem. But don't blame the US if diplomacy fails when the EU just throws its hands up in the air and doesn't actually do anything to find a resolution. Russia and China will simply block anything the UN Security Council can do, so it's time for the EU to put your money where your mouth is. It's a lot easier to play the blame game than actually sticking your own neck out once in a while.

Europeans should realize that if they just sit back and watch events unfold, you know who is going to fill that vacuum? Not the US--it's going to be Israel. They won't hesitate to take out Iran's reactors if they believe Iran is close to building a weapon. That's exactly what they did with Iraq in June 1981 and it set the Iraqi nuclear program back at least 10 years. Do you really want Israel to get involved? Believe me, the US won't be able to stop Israel from doing anything if the Israelis feel threatened.

If you believe that Iran doesn't have nuclear weapon ambitions, I've got a bridge to sell you over the East River. Of course they are, that's why they are deliberately stalling the IAEA. They want to shift the balance of power in the Middle East permanently in their favor while Iraq continues to be a mess. The US didn't want Israel to have nuclear weapons either, and Israel hid their development program from the US until it was completed.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:45 am

What an idiotic article.

All the federal government said was: "Before we impose new sanctions, let's wait for the upcoming IAE0 report on Iran which is scheduled to be published in November this year."

Could anyone enlighten me why the USA should bomb Iran within the next two months and why this would be the fault of the Germans?
I support the right to arm bears
 
Toast
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:04 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:45 am

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 28):

They very likely have such ambitions. So what? Russia has nukes, Pakistan, North Korea, Israel. Since when is it these countries' birthright to have them but nobody else's?

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 28):
because Germany wants to protect their own economic interests in Iran, just like France wanted to protect its own valuable contracts in Iraq.

Of course. That's the same reason why the US protects the asses of the lunatic dictators in KSA.

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 28):
They want to shift the balance of power in the Middle East permanently in their favor

Is that an argument? They're the largest and most central country in the region. Who else do you think should be expected to have the most clout over there?

Iran is a sovereign nation, as was Iraq. They have every right to do whatever the hell they want, just like the US. Attack them and you'll open a can of worms next to which the Iraq debacle will be remembered as harmless fun in the sand.
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 18):
China seems to have considerable monetary leverage over the US right now, why would they need Iran to create a distraction ?

Of course this is a valid question , and one in my mind that adds to the mystery. Why does China ,EU ,Russia,sit silent then ? Why not condemn Akmenijihad and join with the US as a stabilizing force to ME Peace. ? The US has treated China , EU as a equal partners economically. Why then will they not demand that Iran act in a less hostile way towards the US ?

Why . ? IMHO because they do not want to appear allied with us for the most part. China may well be the next superpower as the US declines... The EU , Russia and most of the world are leaving the option open to play ball with them. The US is losing the great struggle for power in the world , the reason is mostly our own policies and too many enemies. NK, Iran , Venezuela, Al Qada , etc.. are open and outspoken enemies of the US. Still we see no major effort from anyone in the world community to condemn them.. Why ? IMO they are hedging their bets and staying in favor of the next power or at least waiting to see who will emerge.

This is not unexpected this is the way all empires have fallen , no one country can lead the world ... what we see now is the passing of power.. Who is next to take the stage we will have to see.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
mbmbos
Posts: 2568
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 4:16 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 14):
So I asked the question, which you not-so-deftly avoided, WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

Man, you're so cutting with that "not-so-deftly" comment! Wow, you really burned me!


First of all, it is not incumbent on me to answer the question - WHAT WOULD YOU DO - until we can actually agree to the nature and severity of the problem. In other words (I'll try to deftly explain it to you), it isn't a dire problem just because you say it is. I just love how this pro-war stuff goes. We are told that the problem is very, very serious. Life-threatenly so. The-enemy-at-our-borders so. And we are not allowed to challenge that premise. Then we are given two, extreme and mutually exclusive choices, i.e., be a pussy liberal dove and try diplomacy (a.k.a., "appeasement") or defend freedom by bombing. So the argument is constructed by neocons and the rules are set by neocons.

It's a cheesy form of rhetoric and I'm not playing.

On the other hand, you might want to go back and re-read my response. I think I made it clear that I do not accept that our administration has made a good faith effort at diplomacy. We have many cards to play and we should make all effort to work with the people of Iran (not just their wacko leaders), neighboring countries, other influential countries and reconsider our Middle East policy in general before loading up the bombers.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 28):
But don't blame the US if diplomacy fails when the EU just throws its hands up in the air and doesn't actually do anything to find a resolution.

But is this such a huge problem that drastic action is actually required ? Iran gets the bomb - join the club. Pakistan and India have the bomb, and the US hasn't bombed them yet. Israel has the bomb, South Africa had the bomb (but got rid of it), and..? Only America seems worried about this, and America is out of range of anything Iran could launch. Dirty bombs are far more likely to originate from the vast and largely unmonitored nuclear stocks of Russia, Ukraine, Kazakhstan, than from anything Tehran could build. Iran makes a convenient and simple bogey man, and has done since the revolution. George Bush is a much bigger threat to world peace than Ahmedinajab.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9201
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:47 am

I did not vote for Sarközy so I do not see why I should be held responsible for anything he will be doing.
He and W. Bush look very much the same to me.  Angry Power mongers who care about nothing else but themselves.  Angry

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 28):
Europeans should realize that if they just sit back and watch events unfold, you know who is going to fill that vacuum?
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
sh0rtybr0wn
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:16 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:48 am

Quoting DC10extender (Reply 22):
Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 6):
Bombing another Islamic country will just create millions more people who hate America.

As long as we are a super power, people will hate us.

I understand that idea, people do seem to dislike America being the superpower, but don't you remember just after 911 how the whole world was on our side? Remember the candlelight vigils in Iraq in support of America? They didnt hate us then.

I think Bush's legacy of aggression, dehumanizing treatment at Gitmo bay, torture, and brutality have severely damaged the USA's reputation and I'm not sure it will ever recover if we attack Iran without provocation.
 
Toast
Posts: 1249
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 4:04 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:56 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 35):
I think Bush's legacy of aggression, dehumanizing treatment at Gitmo bay, torture, and brutality have severely damaged the USA's reputation

 checkmark 

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 35):
I'm not sure it will ever recover if we attack Iran without provocation.

For Bush, anything can be a provocation.

Oh, the USA will eventually get its good name back, just like Germany and Japan did after WWII. The only question is, when will Bush stop digging that great big hole the US is in now so that the process of healing can begin, and how many more people will get killed before he's removed from power.
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
and join with the US as a stabilizing force to ME Peace. ?

Excuse me while I fall off my chair laughing. Stabilizing ? Are you kidding me ? The US will be a stabilizing force when it stops propping up undemocratic and oppressive regimes in the region, and just gives the people of the region the chance to run their own lives. That will not happen while the US needs Middle East oil, and while the US has such a partisan and one-sided view of the Palestine/Israel situation.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
Why then will they not demand that Iran act in a less hostile way towards the US ?

What hostile ? Chanting "death to America" ? Oooh, I'm terrified - such threatening behaviour ! Iran is belligerent and mouthy, yes, but an actual threat ? When you see Iranian submarines off the East Coast, let me know.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 31):
The US is losing the great struggle for power in the world , the reason is mostly our own policies and too many enemies. NK, Iran , Venezuela, Al Qada



And who (apart from the US) said the US had a God-given right to "power in the world" ? You do what you do, and let everyone else do what they do. So what if Venezuela is socialist ? Are they a threat to your democracy ? No they're not. Just because everyone doesn't fawn all over the US and fall into line with every stupid damn thing that comes out of George W Bush's mouth, all of sudden the world is full of "enemies". You are swallowing their paranoid bullshit hook line and sinker, seriously.

History shows that power comes in cycles, empires wax and wane. Maybe the US has had it's moment in the sun, and Mr. Bush's whacky adventures have brought the world to realise that having one big super power is not a guarantee of world peace, if that super power is reckless and irresponsible with the power that it has. Nobody is saying that another super power is rising to challenge the US just yet, but countries are realising that the US serves only the US's selfish national interests, and so these other countries have to act to protect their own interests in response. That's not emnity, it's just realpolitik.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
huskyaviation
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:38 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:07 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 33):
But is this such a huge problem that drastic action is actually required ? Iran gets the bomb - join the club. Pakistan and India have the bomb, and the US hasn't bombed them yet. Israel has the bomb, South Africa had the bomb (but got rid of it), and..?

Well, you tell me. Do you want Iran waving nuclear weapons around given the instability of the Middle East (even before the Iraq debacle). Why do you think the world shudders every time India and Pakistan rattle their sabers? Would you have no issue if North Korea tested a nuclear device tomorrow?

Did I say drastic action is required? I said this should be diplomatically resolved--but I also said that rather than just rip on Bush and the US every time something in the world goes wrong, that the EU actually step up and try to resolve something before a real crisis ensues.
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:10 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 13):
Do you hear yourself ? "An enemy of freedom" - how so ? They have a loony president who makes a lot of empty gestures, so what ? The US has the same problem. This is just unadulterated paranoia with no basis in reality. Has Iran actually invaded anyone recently ? No. Did they launch the September 11 attacks against the US ? No. Do they have nuclear weapons ? No. Is Pakistan a dangerous miltary dictatorship hosting thousands of very dangerous Islamist radicals ? Yes. Does Pakistan have nuclear weapons ? Yes. Is the US planning to bomb Pakistan ? No.

It's irrational and baseless fear of the Iranian bogeyman that has hypnotised the US since the Iranian revolution in 1979 - all because of the hostages. Nobody's saying Iran is a beacon of stability and benevolence, far from it, but bombing them back to the Stone Age is not the solution to every problem. Didn't Iraq at least teach you that ?

people who have been filled with all the BS the media and the government feeds them keep on thinking that way. Regardless if Iran has Nuclear weapons, wouldnt it take ICBMS to even deliver them over here, and I highly doubt theyre going to use them. Having nuclear weapons puts them on the same playing field as Israel, and they are trying to prove themselves to be equal of Israel and create a balance of force in the middle east, about the worst thing the US could do is have a conflict with Iran.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:15 am

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 38):
Well, you tell me. Do you want Iran waving nuclear weapons around given the instability of the Middle East (even before the Iraq debacle).

No I don't, but it is extremely hypocritical of countries like France and UK, who have nuclear arsenals, to lay down the law to countries doing exactly the same thing. Either nobody has nukes, or it's a free-for-all. Who gets to decide who may and may not have nuclear weapons ? What are the entry criteria for the nuclear "club" ? Democracy ? Ahem, Pakistan ? China ? No threat to their neighbours ? Israel ? Pakistan ? India ?

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 38):
that the EU actually step up and try to resolve something before a real crisis ensues.

The "crisis" in this case being the possibility of a US attack on Iran. The US has no interest in allowing Iran to shed their Axis of Evil status - Iran is a very convenient scapegoat for everything that's gone wrong in the Middle East (and I'm not saying Iran hasn't fostered and supported some very unpleasant operators in the Middle East, but then so has the US - Saddam being one of them). Nothing the EU does will make a difference, because the EU has less leverage over Iran - the sanctions are imposed by the US for the most part, not the EU. The US has made Iran a US problem, the world has to wait and let the US sort it out.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:18 am

Quoting DC10extender (Reply 22):
As long as we are a super power, people will hate us.

Been to these countries where supposedly hatred for the US is high and lemme tell you something, it has almost nothing to do with our freedoms, or us being a "superpower" the average people in another country couldnt give a rats ass about it, its rather our admirable  Yeah sure foreign policy and consistent backing of brutal right-wing regimes.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:20 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 40):
Either nobody has nukes, or it's a free-for-all. Who gets to decide who may and may not have nuclear weapons ? What are the entry criteria for the nuclear "club" ? Democracy ? Ahem, Pakistan ? China ? No threat to their neighbours ? Israel ? Pakistan ? India ?

Exactly, lets take for Example a really right-wing Israeli politican who comes along, and he wants to create a greater Israel, whats stopping him from bombing the hell out of other countries that would be a part of the greater Israel. I dont trust nuclear weapons at the hands of anyone.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 13477
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:22 am

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 6):
And how did that "shock and awe" work-out anyway?
3774 dead.

Do only American deaths count?  boggled 

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 9):
At least they have a plan.

You mean like they did in Iraq?  sarcastic 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
AGM100
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:33 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 37):
You are swallowing their paranoid bullshit hook line and sinker, seriously.

I hope you are right about that , I really do. I really am in one damn dark mood today , unusual for me .... I like your view of the JGPH, Live and let live.

Just not sure you are not swallowing something of your own, but we all have to believe in something I guess.


What do you think would happen if the Iran came out and said... , you know we do not want to fight with the US . We want to make peace and work mutually towards settling our differences ? Please can we meet at a big table somewhere and discuss all of this . Do you think the US would not go ?
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:46 am

Great...wonder when our troops will be called..  Yeah sure

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 38):
Why do you think the world shudders every time India and Pakistan rattle their sabers?

Actually Pakistan is far more unstable than India. The Indians are way to responsible to start throwing nukes around..if a nuclear war happens you can bet it was Pakistan who started it.
And in any case we (Australia) wouldn't be selling uranium to India if they weren't considered stable.

If the US does attack Iran..that will be the end of it. Iran is not a pushover like Iraq (and we all know how thats going).
How many more young men and women in uniform need to die? This is just crazy.
אני תומך בישראל
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 44):
I hope you are right about that , I really do. I really am in one damn dark mood today , unusual for me ..

It happens to everyone - sometimes the world just seems like it's going all to hell.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 44):
Just not sure you are not swallowing something of your own, but we all have to believe in something I guess.

Oh, I am deeply and abidingly cyncical about anything remotely political. There is no altruism in politics, it's always always about the money. Like Deep Throat said, "follow the money". There's cash in this crisis for someone, trust me.

Quoting AGM100 (Reply 44):
What do you think would happen if the Iran came out and said... , you know we do not want to fight with the US . We want to make peace and work mutually towards settling our differences ? Please can we meet at a big table somewhere and discuss all of this . Do you think the US would not go ?

I hope they would - but they might also decide to play silly-buggers like they did with North Korea and refuse direct bilateral talks, for some or other gormless points-scoring cowboy reason. I don't know how you feel about your present Presidential incumbent, but the world is holding its breath waiting for November 2008 so he can be replaced. Frankly, anything will be an improvement, it has to be.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
huskyaviation
Posts: 912
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:38 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 40):
No I don't, but it is extremely hypocritical of countries like France and UK, who have nuclear arsenals, to lay down the law to countries doing exactly the same thing. Either nobody has nukes, or it's a free-for-all. Who gets to decide who may and may not have nuclear weapons ? What are the entry criteria for the nuclear "club" ? Democracy ? Ahem, Pakistan ? China ? No threat to their neighbours ? Israel ? Pakistan ? India ?

The US has consistently tried to stop nuclear proliferation even with "friendly" nations. Israel hid their actual intentions at its Dimona nuclear facility from both US and international inspectors by preventing US inspectors from seeing the entire facility. The US repeatedly attempted to prevent Pakistan from developing nuclear weapons and was assured that Pakistan had no nuclear weapons intentions. It's a muddled picture how "entry" into the nuclear club should be determined, but I am skeptical of Iran's command and control of nuclear weapons, just as North Korea and Pakistan are a deep concern. Iran is a signatory of the NPT, regardless.

From President Reagan's diary regarding Pakistan:

December 7, 1982. "[Pres. Zia] gave me his word they were not building an atomic or nuclear bomb."

August 31, 1984. "The Soviets have been getting bolder in their & the Afghan border raids aimed at the refugee camps in Pakistan. At the same time India is building up militarily on the Pak. border. Their concern is whether Pakistan is developing nuclear weapons. Pres. Zia looks us in the eye & says he isn't [developing a nuclear weapon] but he'll expect help from us if either threat materializes. I favor sending some high level emissaries to both give Zia some additional defense weapons but lean on him to prove once & for all he isn't making a bomb."

July 16, 1986. "Then he [P.M. Junejo of Pakistan] & I met alone in the Oval O. for a short meeting. Our problem has to do with evidence that Pakistan is on the way to having a nuc. bomb in spite of a pledge to us that they wouldn't. I told him of how I had to regularly certify to Cong. that they weren't doing that in order to continue getting help from them with regard to Afghanistan. I believed him when he said he had no knowledge of that but he would get into it & pledged [underlined] to me they would keep their agreement."

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 40):
The "crisis" in this case being the possibility of a US attack on Iran. The US has no interest in allowing Iran to shed their Axis of Evil status - Iran is a very convenient scapegoat for everything that's gone wrong in the Middle East (and I'm not saying Iran hasn't fostered and supported some very unpleasant operators in the Middle East, but then so has the US - Saddam being one of them). Nothing the EU does will make a difference, because the EU has less leverage over Iran - the sanctions are imposed by the US for the most part, not the EU. The US has made Iran a US problem, the world has to wait and let the US sort it out.

This is pure rubbish--there would be a crisis if Iran tested a weapon, or Israel pre-emptively attacked Iran to protect itself. If other nations have any interest in peace, then they will work for that, and not just sit there and "let the US sort it out." The EU can of course do something to make a difference, they can use their good offices to bring Iran to the table, but they would rather ignore the issue until it becomes a problem that cannot be fixed. The US has made Iran a problem for itself, I admit that. But even Europeans should realize that Iran has done nothing to stop the violence in the Middle East in general, by fomenting terrorism and shipping arms to Hezbollah and threatening to destroy Israel (which would obviously be antithetical to the vaunted United Nations). Iran hasn't show itself to be much of a good faith negotiator.
 
NoUFO
Posts: 7397
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 7:40 am

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Pla

Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 47):
The EU can of course do something to make a difference, they can use their good offices to bring Iran to the table, but they would rather ignore the issue

Wait a second.
Who did the negotiations with Iran lately, the three main EU member countries or the U.S.? And could you please remind me of the reason why the U.S. did not participate?

To get this straight: Both approaches have, to a large extend, failed - the more appeasing approach of Europe as well as that of the USA. Finger-pointing is the last what would help in a situation like this.
Same goes for misinforming articles like that from Fox News.
I support the right to arm bears
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: U.S. Officials Begin Crafting Iran Bombing Plan

Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 47):
The US has consistently tried to stop nuclear proliferation even with "friendly" nations.

That's just as hypocritical - "friendly" or not, nuclear proliferation is a Bad Idea, and that means for the "responsible" countries too. Threatening to build newer, better nuclear weapons is hardly a promising way to encourage other less "responsible" countries from developing the same things. Nuclear weapons are hideous, unconscionable things that no sentient being would want on their planet. As long as Iran knows that the US will not stop Israel from developing and possibly deploying nuclear weapons, of course they are going to develop their own, purely on the Mutually Assured Destruction principle.

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 47):
there would be a crisis if Iran tested a weapon, or Israel pre-emptively attacked Iran to protect itself.

A weapons test is not an act of war. If India and Pakistan can restrain themselves from mutually turning each other into a bubbling sheet of glass, Israel and Iran will just have to do the same. Israel may be reckless at times, but they are not suicidal.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, Baidu [Spider], seat64k and 9 guests