allstarflyer
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The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:13 am

As Dr. Z rightfully roasts the Patriots here, it casts a huge shadow over their 3 Super Bowl wins and their dynasty of this decade. Hey, at least the Bo Sox won in '04.  eyebrow 

The only upright athletes, IMO, nowadays, are Tiger Woods and Roger Federer. The only recent dominant team (of which I can think) would be the Yankees of the late '90's. Here's a breakdown of recent questionable (at the least) big-name players and champions (at least dominant ones):

- The Patriots - we can all read the headlines now - The aforementioned report by Dr. Z from CNNSI, the Pats under question by other players and a reminder of previous occurrences. Without the camera tricks, I wonder how well the Patriots will do this year.  scratchchin 

- We've all been back and forth about Lance Armstrong. It's pretty fishy when people down to his masseuse say he's doing EPO, not to mention the winner previous to him, Jan Ulrich and the one after him, Floyd Landis as well as the number 2 rider in the world, Ivan Basso, getting busted for performance-enhancing drugs.  scratchchin 

- There's Barry and the rest of the steroid-era crew (McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and so on) doing their best to pump their stats, regardless of the integrity of the game.

- Here is a good one, summarizing other recent ones, from the NBA ref, to Shawne Merriman (NFL Sack leader), runners (from the Boston Marathon to sprinters) and so on.

- And who can forget Danny Almonte?  eyebrow 

Any others I'm missing (good guys or bad guys)?
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N1120A
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:21 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Thread starter):

- There's Barry and the rest of the steroid-era crew (McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro and so on) doing their best to pump their stats, regardless of the integrity of the game.

Get over it man. A major research study showed it is physically impossible to hit a baseball and the only way to do it is through years of practice and dedication. Steroids, whether Bonds took them or not, didn't make him patient at the plate or able to put better swings on the ball. You should read something about Brady Anderson and what his teammates have said about his breakout season to understand what a swing is about.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Thread starter):
- We've all been back and forth about Lance Armstrong. It's pretty fishy when people down to his masseuse say he's doing EPO,

For which he has never tested positive.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Thread starter):

Any others I'm missing (good guys or bad guys)?

How about guys like Vladimir Guerrero, Garret Anderson, Russel Martin, Derek Lowe, Ladanian Tomlinson, Drew Brees, Joe Sakic, LeBron James and the majority of athletes in sports?
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futureualpilot
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:27 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
A major research study showed it is physically impossible to hit a baseball and the only way to do it is through years of practice and dedication. Steroids, whether Bonds took them or not, didn't make him patient at the plate or able to put better swings on the ball.

It is physically impossible to hit a baseball? Then all the guys with 3000 hits, the home runs, doubles, singles, and so during the course of the season are....illusions? Cool. Even if steroids don't make you more patient, they can help you increase your bat speed.....not to mention, they are illegal. No getting around that one.

As far as honest atheletes, I'd add Jake Peavy, Trevor Hoffman, Craig Biggio, and Tom Glavine. I'm sure there are more, too.
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MSYtristar
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:30 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Thread starter):
The only upright athletes, IMO, nowadays, are Tiger Woods and Roger Federer

Add Peyton Manning to the list. A class act all the way. And the best quarterback currently playing.
 
N1120A
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 2):

It is physically impossible to hit a baseball?

That was the result of a scientific study. The reason people can hit a baseball is because they build up reaction timing.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
futureualpilot
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:47 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
That was the result of a scientific study. The reason people can hit a baseball is because they build up reaction timing.

I can believe that, it takes a tremendous amount of skill to do. I apologize if I came off like an ass....rough day.

I'd add Tony Gwynn, and Cal Ripken. Hard to get a classier pair of guys than those two.
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AllegiantAir
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:10 am

Well in NASCAR there are the drivers like Shane Hmiel, Tyler Walker, and Kevin Grubb who have been suspended indefinitely for use of illegal substances. But IMO, the majority of NASCAR drivers are good guys (and gals). There are a few "naughty" ones like I mentioned earlier, but you don't hear stories on the news like in the other sports (not gonna call out any individual once or else I'll probably get flamed) where NASCAR drivers are running around smoking pot or shooting people. And right there is one reason why I'm proud of NASCAR because IMO, we have some of the friendliest athletes.
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modernArt
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:11 am

It's the NFL. In the grand scheme of things, who gives a flip?

Quoting Allstarflyer (Thread starter):
The only upright athletes, IMO, nowadays, are Tiger Woods and Roger Federer.

Tiger is kind of tool if you ask me - which you didn't. But I'll take guy like Tim Duncan any day.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Thread starter):
he only recent dominant team (of which I can think) would be the Yankees of the late '90's

Frankly, the San Antonio Spurs - love or hate 'em - are far and away one of the classiest (and playoff succesful) U.S. pro sports franchises.
 
Confuscius
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:12 am

Not exactly cheating, Maria Sharapova and her secret to success...lots of potassium.

Ain't I a stinker?
 
allstarflyer
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 3):
Add Peyton Manning to the list. A class act all the way.



Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 5):
I'd add Tony Gwynn, and Cal Ripken.

Nice, good additions all.

Quoting FutureUALpilot (Reply 2):
I'd add Jake Peavy, Trevor Hoffman, Craig Biggio, and Tom Glavine.

I'll throw Maddux in there.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
Steroids, whether Bonds took them or not, didn't make him patient at the plate or able to put better swings on the ball.

Where has anyone said that steroids increase a batter's discipline at the plate? Better swings on the ball - maybe harder ones. Ted Williams said a lot of the things that you do (concerning the skill of making positive contact with the ball - technique, reflexes, hand-eye coordination), but he also stated that "added muscle mass may increase the distance a player is able to hit a baseball." Barry already had a lot of the techical skill required to be a prolific hitter, whether for contact or distance.

Though Bonds wasn't part of the big-time home run stats of 1998, let's start prior to that year of the steroid era. From '87 to '97, Bonds had an average of just over 150 hits per season (150.73 to be more accurate). His OPS from 1992-1997 cleard 1.000 every year. Based on those stats, Bonds already had the skills necessary to be a prolific hitter. As far as plate discipline, prior to 1998 (when Sosa and McGwire went off), Bonds had phenomenal walk-to-strike out ratios, averaging just over 115 walks from '89-'97 as opposed to averaging just over 76 strikeouts in that same time span, only once tying his walks-to-strikeouts ('89) with walks outpacing strikeouts every time after that, so he already had the patience at the plate.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 1):
You should read something about Brady Anderson and what his teammates have said about his breakout season to understand what a swing is about.

Brady Anderson might be a good source, and I may consider that, but currently I'm content concerning this in just referencing Ted Williams.

Source for statistical reference - baseballreference.com - Bonds
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CastleIsland
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Thread starter):
The only recent dominant team (of which I can think) would be the Yankees of the late '90's.

You mean the one with Jason Giambi?
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
allstarflyer
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:04 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 10):
Quoting Allstarflyer (Thread starter):
The only recent dominant team (of which I can think) would be the Yankees of the late '90's.

You mean the one with Jason Giambi?

Giambi joined the Yankees in 2002. They last won in 2000.
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CastleIsland
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:16 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 11):
Giambi joined the Yankees in 2002. They last won in 2000.

Ooops, thanks for the clarification. I try not to spend too much time thinking about them.  Wink
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
allstarflyer
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 7:35 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 12):
I try not to spend too much time thinking about them.

You're probably better off now, too, since they don't give people much to think about.  eyebrow 
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ltbewr
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:00 am

I would suggest that professional golf is by far the most honest of sports. There have been a number of cases where a player has taken penalties even for making a casual mistake like not putting the proper number of strokes or not signing their scorecard or improper placement of a ball as it was not allowed by the rules. The PGA is also seriously considering drug testing although (except for John Daly) it isn't a significant problem.
 
CastleIsland
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RE: The Premier Athletes And Teams Above Cheating

Fri Sep 14, 2007 8:43 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):
There have been a number of cases where a player has taken penalties even for making a casual mistake like not putting the proper number of strokes or not signing their scorecard or improper placement of a ball as it was not allowed by the rules.

Or in the case of Sergio Garcia, throwing a hissy fit in the scorer's tent over a mistake on his card and then storming out instead of simply correcting it in the tent prior to leaving. Penalty: disqualification.

I would agree that golf is probably the most honorable "sport." As a weekend hacker, I know how much it takes to play a good/great round as the top players often do, but I know many don't consider it a sport...
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan

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