rjpieces
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:12 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6934351,00.html

BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - A powerful bomb killed an anti-Syria lawmaker and six others Wednesday in a Christian neighborhood of Beirut, threatening to derail an effort by an already deeply divided Parliament to elect Lebanon's next president in voting to begin next week.

Antoine Ghanem, a 64-year-old member of the Christian Phalange party who had returned from refuge abroad only two days earlier, was the eighth anti-Syria figure and fourth lawmaker from the governing coalition to be assassinated in less than three years.
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LTU932
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:05 am

They can deny it as much as they want: it's clear that Syria is directly responsible for this assassination. I mean, why else would an anti-Syrian politician get suddenly killed by a car bomb? That's hardly coincidence. All Syria wants is to reoccupy Lebanon and keep it in chaos so they can control the country.
 
Alessandro
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:53 am

5th parlamenterian killed in 2 years, time to move the parlament out of Lebanon?
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airxliban
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:42 am

Rest in peace to Antoine Ghanem and everyone that died with him on that day and everyone else who has been a martyr for Lebanon. Including all of the assassinations and bombings, those who have died in the army and the innocent people who died during israel's war last July.

The title of this thread, in the meantime, is pure speculation and not fact. Why do we have to assume it's Syria? There has been no investigation on that issue and until there is I dont think we should pass off our speculation as fact. There is much more at play here than the notion of Syrian intervention to maintain control in Lebanon or revenge at having been kicked out.
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CXA330300
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:03 am

Long shot that Syria will admit it-

and long shot that Syria is innocent. Syria doesn't even officially recognize Lebanon.
AC/AA/UA/DL/B6/WN/US*/CO*/FI/BA/IB/AF/SK/LX/Sabena*/TK/LY/SA/MN/SW/AM/CE*/CX/CA/MU/JL/SQ/TG/MH/KA/5J
 
Mir
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting Alessandro (Reply 2):
5th parlamenterian killed in 2 years, time to move the parlament out of Lebanon?

Move the Lebanese parliament out of Lebanon?

-Mir
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Falcon84
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:29 am

Yes, Syria. That stalwart against terrorism; that nation that is a essential nation to peace in the region. At least that's the way one of our esteemed members looks at that nation.

Syria is, like Iran, a thug nation, who's sole goal in the region is destabalization. And, besides this episode, may be trying to get nuclear material from the DRPK? The world would be better without Syria.
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LAXspotter
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
The world would be better without Syria.

hopefully you mean that in the political context, and hopefully this is not a statement of what a waste Syria is, it is a beautiful country with a rich history and culture, I would hate to see Syria go anywhere, but the Politicians yes, its time for their own little revolution, but I doubt its gonna happen, doesnt justify american intervention by any means tho.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Falcon84
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:40 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 7):
hopefully you mean that in the political context,

Yes, I did. I'm glad to clarify that point.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ME AVN FAN
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 1:46 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 1):
That's hardly coincidence. All Syria wants is to reoccupy Lebanon and keep it in chaos so they can control the country.

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Unfortunately right. Except that chaos is exactly what Syria does NOT want. Otherwise there would be four murders per month ! The Syrian Mukhaberat would have the capability for that. And please realize that what left Lebanon were some military troops and some Mukhaberat offices were "cleared" BUT the Syrian Mukhaberat not only stayed on, they had a very good agent in Beirut in the person of General Lahoud. While government duties are in the hands of the PrimeMinister (CEO) the president acts like a chairman with some general influence. So that you can be quite sure that the next President will also be a "Syria-man". It however will be far more difficult to find out but far more interesting, to which faction in Syria the new Beirut office holder will be affialiated.
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Quoting Airxliban (Reply 3):
The title of this thread, in the meantime, is pure speculation and not fact. Why do we have to assume it's Syria? There has been no investigation on that issue and until there is I dont think we should pass off our speculation as fact. There is much more at play here than the notion of Syrian intervention to maintain control in Lebanon or revenge at having been kicked out.

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You of course are right in regard to "much more at play", but people (including me) go to some conclusion upon hearing those news. But you rather may tell me why the name "Antoine Ghanem" gives me a "ring" but I am unable to place him. What were his other functions and positions ?
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Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Yes, Syria. That stalwart against terrorism; that nation that is a essential nation to peace in the region. At least that's the way one of our esteemed members looks at that nation.

-
You cannot simplify matters. Just as other countries in this world, Syria is mostly against terrorism and terrorists, except "their" terrorists. And just as other nations, Syria is intent on dominating smaller neighbours.
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Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
Syria is, like Iran, a thug nation, who's sole goal in the region is destabalization.

Not correct. Syria is interested in stability in the region, but of course on Syrian terms. Not very different from the politics of the big powers.
-
 
BA
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:06 pm

Lebanon since its independence has been on an uphill struggle because of its very fragile nature. Many players have contributed to this struggle from the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem, having Israel as a neighbor, to the Baath takeover of Syria in 1963. During the 1975-1990 civil war, Lebanon was a playground for many foreign players.

Now it is a battlefield between the West and Syria/Iran.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
TheCol
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:22 pm

Quoting Airxliban (Reply 3):
Why do we have to assume it's Syria?

Give us one good reason why we shouldn't suspect them?

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
except "their" terrorists

Out of curiosity, is Hamas considered their terrorists?

Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 4):
long shot that Syria is innocent.

 checkmark 

Quoting BA (Reply 10):
Now it is a battlefield between the West and Syria/Iran.

Lebanon isn't the only place.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
CupraIbiza
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:28 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 11):
Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
except "their" terrorists

Out of curiosity, is Hamas considered their terrorists?

I dont really know of course but I wouldnt think so. I think Hamas is more a Saudi linked organisation, Hamas are Sunni, al-Assad of Syria is Shi'ite
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
TheCol
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:43 pm

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 12):

But doesn't Syria harbor their leaders?
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
CupraIbiza
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 13):
But doesn't Syria harbor their leaders?

Supposedly,
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
JJJ
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Anti-Syrian Lebanese Politician Assassinated

Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:33 pm

Most people in the street (and very especially christian phalangists) blame Syria. I mean, who else could be behind this and past (e.g. Pierre Gemayel Jr. just months ago) assassinations.

Ghanem was living in Abu-Dhabi since he had received very real death threats. It's so very clear where they came from.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:39 pm

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
You cannot simplify matters. Just as other countries in this world, Syria is mostly against terrorism and terrorists, except "their" terrorists. And just as other nations, Syria is intent on dominating smaller neighbours.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
Not correct. Syria is interested in stability in the region, but of course on Syrian terms. Not very different from the politics of the big powers.

I knew you'd prove my words correct, MAF. And you didn't fail.  Yeah sure
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CALTECH
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Fri Sep 21, 2007 8:06 pm

Bless the Lebanese people and Lebanon, may peace be with them.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:46 pm

Quoting TheCol (Reply 11):
except "their" terrorists

Out of curiosity, is Hamas considered their terrorists?

50/50. As SaudiArabia/Iran pay the bills, Damascus unfortunately acts as the relay-station for those thugs  Sad  Sad  Sad
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Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 12):
Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 12):

But doesn't Syria harbor their leaders?

You see, their leaders do NOT need anybody to "harbour" them. They can move around quite freely in practically all of the Arab World from Casablanca to Muscat.
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Quoting JJJ (Reply 15):
Most people in the street (and very especially christian phalangists) blame Syria. I mean, who else could be behind this and past (e.g. Pierre Gemayel Jr. just months ago) assassinations.

-
My question is not so much whether Syria is involved, but rather which faction in the Syrian power struggle was pulling the strings. You may regard this as a minor point, but to people in Syria and Lebanon it is a vital, or rather lethal point of utmost importance. You have to bear in mind that General Lahoud is the man of Damascus in Beirut, and then you realize the magnitude of the problem.
-
 
Alessandro
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:24 pm

Yes, move the Lebanese parlament out of Lebanon.
From New Yorqatar to Califarbia...
 
rjpieces
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:18 am

Quoting BA (Reply 10):
Now it is a battlefield between the West and Syria/Iran.

Wow, it took you how many years to come to this realization?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
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LTU932
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Sat Sep 22, 2007 3:10 am

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 12):
I dont really know of course but I wouldnt think so. I think Hamas is more a Saudi linked organisation, Hamas are Sunni, al-Assad of Syria is Shi'ite

It's more likely that Syria helps Hezbollah instead of Hamas.
 
Beaucaire
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:41 am

While nobody knows the truth or any details,I would refrain from jumping to hasty conclusions.
Syria is currently trying to get out of the corner it has been put into by the Americans (state that sponsors terror..)
If I would be Bashir,I would definitely not like to get involved in any further escalation in Lebanon.I'd rather try to show responsible diplomatic stance and de-escalation.Everybody -like in this forum-automatically cries- that's Syria !
What do we really know other than a Lebanese politician who has a track-record of being hostile to Syrian politics has been assassinated.Yes- I am absolutely hostile to any Syria involvement in Lebanon- but Lebanon is a complicated country with ton's of fractions split into sub-fraction who have shonw in the past to be capable to generate civil war.
I don't try to excuse potential Syrian involvement-but we should try be getting some more information...
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Sun Sep 23, 2007 1:27 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 21):
It's more likely that Syria helps Hezbollah instead of Hamas.

Syria has a variety of "contacts", Hizbullah is just one of them. Others are the Amal Party, General Lahoud, General Aoun, and many others.
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Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
If I would be Bashir,I would definitely not like to get involved in any further escalation in Lebanon.I'd rather try to show responsible diplomatic stance and de-escalation.

-
I am, to my utter regret, seriously in doubt about how much of the state apparatus he actually controls. In fact, also his father only had partial control. That most of the power holders in Damascus are Allaouites and linked with the armed forces in one way or the other does not make matters easier.
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Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
that's Syria !

this of course is a problem. Just as in the case of Hariri, where everybody knows that Hariri was killed just a day after he by court decision won control over the St.Georges Hotel and could DISown the family which had been in control of that place for more than a century and everybody saw that he was killed right across from the old entrance to that hotel and right in front of A) the dependence of the Phoenicia Hotel, B) right in front of 2 night clubs and C) right in front of 3 early morning cafes. I some 7 months after his assassination parked my car right where he got killed and walked all around the place and also talked with some gents of the St. Georges Marina about the matter. So interesting ! The weather was windy, I took some swimming in the swimming pool of the St. Georges Marina and then went out to have a look-around .......
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Falcon84
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:12 am

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
While nobody knows the truth or any details,I would refrain from jumping to hasty conclusions.

Maybe so, but it's certainly part of the M/O of Syria in Lebanon.

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 22):
.
Syria is currently trying to get out of the corner it has been put into by the Americans (state that sponsors terror..)

The Americans put them there? How so? If it walks, looks, quacks like a duck, it's a duck. Syria IS a nation that sponsors terrorism, so the truth is THEY THEMSELVES are the reason they're in that position, not the United States.
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LTU932
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:00 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
Syria has a variety of "contacts", Hizbullah is just one of them. Others are the Amal Party, General Lahoud, General Aoun, and many others.

But isn't Hezbollah one of their prime contacts nevertheless?
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Sun Sep 23, 2007 9:24 pm

Syrian troubles, North Korean nuclear material in Syria now.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...rld/middle_east/article2512380.ece
UNITED We Stand
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 24):
Syria IS a nation that sponsors terrorism

NO, Syria fights against terrorism
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Quoting LTU932 (Reply 25):
Syria has a variety of "contacts", Hizbullah is just one of them. Others are the Amal Party, General Lahoud, General Aoun, and many others.

But isn't Hezbollah one of their prime contacts nevertheless?

ONE of them no doubt. But General Lahoud is number one. And I dare say that Hizbullah is just a "peasant figure" on the chessboard.
-
 
huskyaviation
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:23 am

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
Just as other countries in this world, Syria is mostly against terrorism and terrorists, except "their" terrorists.



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 27):
NO, Syria fights against terrorism

You're either for terrorism or against it, MAF. And Syria hasn't proven to anyone that they are against, not least the Lebanese. Even you seem confused as to their position.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:58 pm

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 28):
Syria hasn't proven to anyone

For instance to the USA, by providing the USA with vital services in the struggle against terrorism. For instance to its own people by fighting down fundamentalist extremists and terrorists inside Syria. For instance the Lebanese government by tactically supporting the fight against those fundamentalists in Tripoli/Libya. For instance Jordan by co-operating with Jordan in the struggle against terrorism.
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But YES, you are right in one essential point. They should stop to bear on seven shoulders, and come to a clear decision, a decision they shun however out of fear to lose vital Saudi and Iranian financial and economic support. The key however is neither in Damascus nor in Tehran but in Riyadh.
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Kay
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RE: Anti-Syrian

Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:44 pm

It isn't about one good guy and one bad guy, it's more complicated than that.

Yes I do believe that Syria and its government are responsible directly or indirectly for, or that at least they know of, and haven't prevented, probably 90% of the assassinations in Lebanon in the last 2 years.

There is one assassination though, where the pieces of the puzzle don't fit. For example, in November 2006, Hizbullah was eager to start its coup of toppling the government by sending thousands of civilians to paralyze the parliament. A few days before the start of the operation, a Christian minister was assassinated, prompting Hizbullah to postpone its coup fearing a soar of anger after an assassination of a young politician from the other camp. Whoever committed that crime back then wasn't on the same page with Hizbullah. We know that Syria and Hizbullah have been at odds more than once in history, but still, that assassination was committed at a very weird time even for Syria. (I may be wrong, not trying to speculate).

Therefore we can never know for sure. Lebanon is easy to infiltrate by any terrorism organization, intelligence agency, the mossad, etc. And many countries have interests in Lebanon.

Finally, it's all about interests. Don't let the media manipulate you about "bad guys"..

Kay

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