EMBQA
Topic Author
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Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:06 am

OK.. I don't want to get into a Dems -v- Reps.... Clinton -v- Bush. This is just do you think Bill Clinton has the right to bring a law suit against an establishment that has been displaying a picture of his daughter Chelsey with the owner for the last 5 years. Keep in mind, Chelsey was an adult (22) when the picture was taken...? I say no. Chelsey is an adult and was an adult when the picture was taken and she is the only one to have a say in this matter. The photo was taken with her permission. Heck, living here in BNA I can't think of too many places I go into that doesn't have a head shot or photo with the owner.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298173,00.html

[Edited 2007-09-27 00:10:47]
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MDorBust
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:20 am

I would say that the case would be thrown out since President Clinton doesn't have any standing in the matter... unless his daughter has somehow awarded him power of attorney.
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dragon-wings
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:23 am

Why is Bill demanding the photo be removed? Did the owner put the photo up without permision?

I say if it's ok with Chelsey then the photo should stay.
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N1120A
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:28 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 1):
I would say that the case would be thrown out since President Clinton doesn't have any standing in the matter... unless his daughter has somehow awarded him power of attorney.

Read closer. The lawyer was writing on behalf of Ms. Clinton, not President Clinton

Quoting Dragon-wings (Reply 2):
Did the owner put the photo up without permision?

Apparently.

Quoting Dragon-wings (Reply 2):
Why is Bill demanding the photo be removed?

Bill isn't. Chelsea is.
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dragon-wings
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
Bill isn't. Chelsea is.

Oh ok, I mis read the article. (and spelled Chelsea's name wrong)
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EMBQA
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting Dragon-wings (Reply 4):
and spelled Chelsea's name wrong

I noticed that after I lost the option to edit it....
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MDorBust
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
Read closer. The lawyer was writing on behalf of Ms. Clinton, not President Clinton

From a linked article

Quote:
But that photo is now at the center of a dispute brought on behalf of Bill Clinton by his lawyer, Douglas J. Band, who on Sept. 18 fired off a rather threatening letter to Selimaj demanding that he take down the snapshot immediately — or face the Clintons’ ire, presumably in the form of legal action.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298197,00.html

It appears that President Clinton is the originator of the request.
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scottieprecord
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 7:57 am

I'm sure there's more of a story behind this... Bill has better things to be doing with his time, and really why would he care? I'm wondering if the shop owner was using Chelsea as a promotional tool, like "Clinton eats here" kinda thing.
 
rfields5421
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:33 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 6):
It appears that President Clinton is the originator of the request.

No the story indicated the daughter is the originator of the request to remove the photo - she just asked Daddy and Daddy's lawyer for help.
 
AsstChiefMark
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:51 am

I take it y'all haven't seen the photo.

BTW, isn't that RootsAir in front of Ms. Clinton?



[Edited 2007-09-27 02:07:49]
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MDorBust
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:55 am

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 8):
No the story indicated the daughter is the originator of the request to remove the photo - she just asked Daddy and Daddy's lawyer for help.

Okay, I'm blind then. Where?

All I can find is, "on behalf of Bill Clinton by his lawyer" which is a clear statement.
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deltagator
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:30 am

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 9):
I take it y'all haven't seen the photo.

I just threw up in my mouth.  Wink

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 8):
No the story indicated the daughter is the originator of the request to remove the photo - she just asked Daddy and Daddy's lawyer for help.

The FoxNews and AP stories both say Bubba had his lawyer draw up the letter. Neither of them mention Chelsea making the request through daddy's lawyer nor that the request was made on her behalf. Hell, she makes 100K+ a year in her job so she could hire her own damn lawyer if she wanted to do so. Methinks that a request was already made and now daddy's lawyers are getting involved.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:53 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 3):
Read closer. The lawyer was writing on behalf of Ms. Clinton, not President Clinton

So Mr. Band must be Chelsea's lawyer, too?

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 11):
Hell, she makes 100K+ a year in her job so she could hire her own damn lawyer if she wanted to do so.

 checkmark 
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L-188
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:18 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 11):
Hell, she makes 100K+ a year in her job

Must be nice to have rich parents.

Quoting EMBQA (Thread starter):
displaying a picture of his daughter Chelsey with the owner for the last 5 years

Seriously I don't think she has a leg to stand on. It was a known photo taken in a public photo.

Akin to somebody sueing one of us because we took a photo of an airplane on a public ramp.
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N1120A
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 11:50 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 6):

It appears that President Clinton is the originator of the request.

No, his lawyer was.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 10):


All I can find is, "on behalf of Bill Clinton by his lawyer" which is a clear statement.

In the short, opinion heavy Faux News article. In the less biased version cited by the OP, the only mention of Bill Clinton is that Band is also his attorney. According to Band's letter, Ms. Clinton is the one who doesn't want her likeness used.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 12):

So Mr. Band must be Chelsea's lawyer, too?

Probably

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 11):
Hell, she makes 100K+ a year in her job so she could hire her own damn lawyer if she wanted to do so.

Bill has one on staff, so why not.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 13):

Seriously I don't think she has a leg to stand on. It was a known photo taken in a public photo.

The guy has every right to keep the photo if she posed for it, he just has no right to use it as free advertising.
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MDorBust
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:07 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
According to Band's letter, Ms. Clinton is the one who doesn't want her likeness used.

Okay, seriously. Would someone just quote where Ms. Clinton requested the action by the lawyer?
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L-188
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:13 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
The guy has every right to keep the photo if she posed for it, he just has no right to use it as free advertising.

If he was using it in a flyer I might agree with you. However customer photos are often a tradition in resturants particularly of famous people, just like framing the first dollar owned. In fact some places it is considered an honor to have your mug posted.

I don't think putting a Polaroid of a famous person and the owner in the window rises to "ADVERSITING"
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N1120A
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:17 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 15):
Would someone just quote where Ms. Clinton requested the action by the lawyer?

From the letter:

"'Ms. Clinton, a private citizen, was not consulted prior to this picture being displayed, and thus, her permission was not given for you to do so,” the letter read. “While she may have dined at your restaurant, this does not serve as an endorsement.'"
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L-188
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:11 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
“While she may have dined at your restaurant, this does not serve as an endorsement.'"

However I think an arguement could be made that she was aware that photos from other famous patrons where posted since they where visible to her, therefore she was reasonably aware that the same fate awaited the photo that he requested with her.
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N1120A
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting L-188 (Reply 18):

However I think an arguement could be made that she was aware that photos from other famous patrons where posted since they where visible to her, therefore she was reasonably aware that the same fate awaited the photo that he requested with her.

Not necessarily. Now, if he said "hey Chelsea, how 'bout a photo for my wall?" that would make sense.
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MDorBust
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
From the letter:

You know what's missing from that excerpt? Any indication that it was actually Ms. Clinton that caused the lawyer to act.

Every indication is that it was President Clinton who invoked the action. Now, do you actually have anything, anything at all that says Ms. Clinton was the one who told the lawyer to act?
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N1120A
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:51 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 20):
Now, do you actually have anything, anything at all that says Ms. Clinton was the one who told the lawyer to act?

I showed you the line where the lawyer states that Ms. Clinton was the one who didn't grant permission to display the photo. It says nothing about Bill Clinton being the one who had an issue.
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rfields5421
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:18 pm

You know, the more play this story gets, the more it looks like a public relations setup by the restaurant to get extra publicity after a customer issued a normal request to have a photograph removed and no longer used as a sales tool.

What was Karl Rove doing last week ?
 
deltagator
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:43 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
"'Ms. Clinton, a private citizen, was not consulted prior to this picture being displayed, and thus, her permission was not given for you to do so,” the letter read. “While she may have dined at your restaurant, this does not serve as an endorsement.'"

No place in those sentences does it say that Chelsea was requesting the picture be removed. I read it as a third party request that might be on behalf if her but at the same time it never clarifies that she herself made the request.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
Not necessarily. Now, if he said "hey Chelsea, how 'bout a photo for my wall?" that would make sense.

Oh come on now. Even your Tulane law degree can put two and two together here.  Wink She dines in a place where celebrities (although she is nowhere near a celebrity) have their pictures on the wall that were taken with the owner, she takes a picture with the owner, and she doesn't want her photo up on the wall?

She's a Stanford grad. She should have been able to do the math that we all have done here. Her picture was going up on that wall as soon as it was developed. He certainly wasn't going to frame it and put it on his nightstand at home. That picture was destined for the wall and there is no way to deny that.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
I showed you the line where the lawyer states that Ms. Clinton was the one who didn't grant permission to display the photo.

It never said that she didn't grant permission. It says she wasn't consulted and makes a leap of faith that she doesn't grant permission. Again, I point to the wall of pictures with other folks with the owner. Her taking the picture at that time was permission to post the picture on the wall.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
It says nothing about Bill Clinton being the one who had an issue.

No it doesn't but since the letter comes from his office, his lawyer, and never uses the words of Chelsea directly it makes you wonder if there is something else going on here.
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MDorBust
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:10 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
I showed you the line where the lawyer states that Ms. Clinton was the one who didn't grant permission to display the photo.

Which is not the same as asking the lawyer to act on it. The lawyer is acting at the request of, or on the behalf of someone. The only person ever mention in that position is President Clinton.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):
It says nothing about Bill Clinton being the one who had an issue.

As a matter of fact, I did provide an article that said just that. Reply #6.
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ORFflyer
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:34 am

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 24):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 21):It says nothing about Bill Clinton being the one who had an issue.
As a matter of fact, I did provide an article that said just that. Reply #6.

 checkmark 

Here are a couple other sources, from several hundred found with our friend GOOGLE that clearly indicate it came from Bill's attorney, at Bill's request. None are from FOX either.

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/strange/article_212105939.shtml

http://www.nypost.com/seven/09272007...bizman__chelsea_picture_stays_.htm

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CastleIsland
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:14 am

Gotta love Fox News.

From the story posted by the OP:

'Other onlookers had mixed feelings about the verbal scuffle.

"I don't see why Bill Clinton is getting involved," said NYU student Julia Armet, 19. "Maybe she's pregnant."'

By their words "other onlookers," they received more than one comment from the public. So, they choose to use this one, which has nothing to do with the issue at hand, is purely speculative, and almost seems to be trying to imply some kind of promiscuity that I won't even go into. What a load of crap.
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deltagator
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:09 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 26):
Gotta love Fox News.

From the story posted by the OP:

'Other onlookers had mixed feelings about the verbal scuffle.

"I don't see why Bill Clinton is getting involved," said NYU student Julia Armet, 19. "Maybe she's pregnant."'

By their words "other onlookers," they received more than one comment from the public. So, they choose to use this one, which has nothing to do with the issue at hand, is purely speculative, and almost seems to be trying to imply some kind of promiscuity that I won't even go into. What a load of crap.

Ah yes, bash the messenger because of the Fox name. Not surprising in the least.

So they posted the musings of one passerby even though they say in the article there were other onlookers? How do you know that nobody else gave a musing of their own? You don't. Maybe she was the only one who spoke to them. Even if multiple people spoke to them how many opinions do you want to be offered? Is 3 good enough for you? 10? None?

How does it have nothing to do with the issue at hand? The girl was offering a possibility of why President Clinton was getting involved since nowhere in the letter does it say Chelsea is making the request. It's her opinion. Feel free to offer your own.

Of course her opinion is speculative. So is everyone else's opinion in this matter, including yours.

As for trying to imply Chelsea is some easy chick and that FN is smearing her name is a stretch at the highest level.

Feel free to drop the feigned indignity over the situation and that somebody is trying to smear the good name of Bill and Chelsea and actually contribute to the thread over whether Bill asking for the picture to be removed is overstepping his bounds.
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CastleIsland
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:20 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 27):
Ah yes, bash the messenger because of the Fox name. Not surprising in the least.

Glad I can make you feel secure in my actions.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 27):
Maybe she was the only one who spoke to them.

What part of:

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 26):
'Other onlookers had mixed feelings about the verbal scuffle.

was unclear to you? They used the plural, not me.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 27):
Even if multiple people spoke to them how many opinions do you want to be offered?

Only a few salient ones, or even one salient one.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 27):
As for trying to imply Chelsea is some easy chick and that FN is smearing her name is a stretch at the highest level.

Not given the proclivity for faux news to stretch the truth.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 27):
Feel free to drop the feigned indignity over the situation and that somebody is trying to smear the good name of Bill and Chelsea and actually contribute to the thread over whether Bill asking for the picture to be removed is overstepping his bounds.

I'm in this fight until I die. I want truth, and I will condemn those who feel free to stretch it for a political agenda.

Yes, on both sides. So get off yer horse, mate.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 27):
So is everyone else's opinion in this matter, including yours.

As for that, last I checked, I was not quoted in a national news story by faux news.
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deltagator
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 28):
Not given the proclivity for faux news to stretch the truth.

Source? Example? Proof? I'm just asking for one example of this liberal fascination with FN and how they misrepresent the news. Just one....help me out here.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 28):
Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 26):
'Other onlookers had mixed feelings about the verbal scuffle.

was unclear to you? They used the plural, not me

Point taken. I did miss that plural for whatever reason. It was not intentional so...

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 28):
I'm in this fight until I die. I want truth, and I will condemn those who feel free to stretch it for a political agenda.

Fight until you die? Seems a bit extreme. I'm just saying I don't think there was any political agenda in the FN story. Difference of opinion it seems but I just don't see it. Judging by the general statements made by the "man on the street" interviews I would hazzard a guess that the only cohesive statement that anyone gave out in front of that restaurant came from that girl.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 28):
As for that, last I checked, I was not quoted in a national news story by faux news.

No you weren't but you didn't offer any theory to why Bill has asked for the picture to be taken down which was the point of this thread and not your personal windmill tilting against FoxNews.
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L-188
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 27):
As for trying to imply Chelsea is some easy chick

Like Father like daughter?

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 26):
"I don't see why Bill Clinton is getting involved," said NYU student Julia Armet, 19. "Maybe she's pregnant."'

ROFLMAO!!!
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CastleIsland
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:28 am

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 29):
Just one....help me out here.



Tell me that was a "mistake." Just tell me...

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 29):
Fight until you die? Seems a bit extreme.

Damn straight. As a scientist who has personal proof of this administration supressing scientific information, I have a mission.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
deltagator
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 11:42 am

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 31):
Tell me that was a "mistake." Just tell me...

You know what, I can't tell you that was a mistake. Who knows for sure. My theory is that the guy responsible for the wording probably sscrewed it up on purpose. But even if he did that doesn't prove some total agenda by FoxNews as a whole organization.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 31):
Damn straight. As a scientist who has personal proof of this administration supressing scientific information, I have a mission.

Fair enough. I think you know I'm no shill for Dubya's administration. They've pissed me off on more than one thing during their time across many aspects financial, international affairs, and environmental. Just don't think the grass will be greener with the other side in power. Prepare to be disappointed by them as well.
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CastleIsland
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RE: Bill Clinton Law Suit Going Too Far...?

Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:27 pm

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 32):
Who knows for sure

Well, none of us, that's true.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 32):
Prepare to be disappointed by them as well

I fully expect to be.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 32):
and environmental. Just don't think the grass will be greener with the other side in power.

As an environmental professional (drinking water mostly), I struggle on this issue. For one, it's pretty much a fact that a Democratic administration will guarantee a larger budget for environmental issues, and that's good for me as a worker. On the other hand, I always try to vote for what's best for the majority of people, not just what's good for me. Then again, I work to protect the nation;s drinking water, so shouldn't I vote for that candidate? And so it goes, an on-going struggle to be good, safe, responsible, and fair.

Thanks for the debate. You have worthy points; I hope I do as well, Maidensgator.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan

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