tsaord
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Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:03 am

There is some issue African Americans have with black/dark people who are from latin America. Take this quote from another message board for example:

"Africans vs latins

I just read an article where baseball great Roberto Clemente was referred to as Latin American.
For some reason it struck me as odd, even though I’m totally aware of how strongly Puerto Ricans and others Latin people embrace their culture.

Then I looked at Clemente’s picture. The man was as dark as he could be, and could easily pass for Ethiopian or other north African.
(I reflected on the way Ethiopians never, ever associate with Black Americans, in my experience. But that’s another topic.)

I wondered: do Latin people who have African ancestry embrace their African heritage at all? Or are they generally tied up in the culture of whatever island their ancestors landed on?"

I replied to this topic but there has never really been a forum where Black latinos and Black Americans could talk. I think it's all silly. Yes Black Latino's who are Puerto Ricans, Domincans, and Cuban's are black because of African Slaves on those Islands way back when. I see it as Black in this country means African American to EVERYONE and for everyone who has dark skin like African Americans that is not the case. I have yet to see "Black/Hispanic" on any applications I have filled out.

Are there any Latino's on here who could shed some light?
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LAXspotter
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:22 am

Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
(I reflected on the way Ethiopians never, ever associate with Black Americans, in my experience. But that’s another topic.)

True, and rightly so. Ethiopians are east Africans, they look so different. Most East Africans have sharper noses, and their facial characteristics are very different than that of West Africans, the ancestors of present day African Americans.

Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
topic but there has never really been a forum where Black latinos and Black Americans could talk. I think it's all silly. Yes Black Latino's who are Puerto Ricans, Domincans, and Cuban's are black because of African Slaves on those Islands way back when. I see it as Black in this country means African American to EVERYONE and for everyone who has dark skin like African Americans that is not the case. I have yet to see "Black/Hispanic" on any applications I have filled out.

to my knowledge theyre more integrated into society, hell no one mentions that Ronaldinho is of partial african hertiage, it really doesnt matter in those countries as much. Their societies are far more integrated than the US's, and there is a lot of intermarraige, hence most Cuban's seem to look like Hybrid's Big grin
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desertjets
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:25 am

Part of the problem is that the concept of Black/African American and Hispanic are largely American constructions and constructions by those not in any of those minority groups.

Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
I wondered: do Latin people who have African ancestry embrace their African heritage at all? Or are they generally tied up in the culture of whatever island their ancestors landed on?"

I've worked with and known quite a few folks from these backgrounds, this also includes black people from the Caribbean. For the most part I'd say they identify themselves first as Dominican, or Trinidadian, or Panamanian, than latino or black or whatever other box we make them check. Also remember that a lot of people from the Caribbean/Latin America often have very mixed ethnic backgrounds... a little European, some African, and native thrown in for good measure.

As for embracing one's African heritage I suppose it is an individual thing. But when one is so far removed from it how does one embrace it? Especially when one's "heritage" is so mixed to begin with.
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prosa
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:12 am

Some years ago I worked with a woman who had been born in Nicaragua and considered herself Hispanic. She was black, spoke English with a Jamaican-sounding accent, and knew only basic Spanish. Talk about a confusing heritage.
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captaink
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:26 am

I think we West Indians value more our West Indian heritage compared to Black Americans who value their African heritage. Yes we all know that we have African ancestry but we also have out very rich West Indian culture now, that it kinda puts the african heritage in the background. Whats more as mentioned it has been so mixed, our food, our language, the way we look, give evidence that we have quite a confusing history. I am black, but I have blood relatives that are white and indian, and it shows in my siblings as we all have different colour skin and hair. I personally cannot accept the term African American as many black americans do, as I am neither African or American. We consider ourselves to be West Indian. I hail from the island of Grenada.
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Derico
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:00 pm

That's a sorted question (I'm not of African heritage, but anyways)

Culturally speaking, African descendants throught Latin America retain a lot of their heritage, and you can see it permeate all over Latin culture in food, music, language and religion, even philosophy and way of seeing things. To say African culture is not a determining shaper of ''Latinism'' would be an understatement.

Now on ''race'', that issue is more related to United States specific constructs. Most Latin American societies are better integrated in the basic genetic sense, far more admixture has occurred. There is not such a cut and dry line 'I am black' or 'I am native american', etc.

Ironically, in spite of better genetic integration, they are also probably not as well integrated than the US in concrete social matters, like access to healthcare, equal treatment for work, pay, and just daily petty discrimination in general, where the United States I think has a far more enlightened edge.

The whole racial clasification because of 'place of birth' or language, is something alien to most Latin Americans, and sounds absurd. Most can tell Evita was white and Pele is black, and that Fujimori is Asian. The 'Latin' race does not exist, in fact it is just a result of confusing admixture of European and native american, common in Mexico, with a so-called 'Latin' race.
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andessmf
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 2):
Part of the problem is that the concept of Black/African American and Hispanic are largely American constructions and constructions by those not in any of those minority groups.

Indeed, there would be laughs in LatAm if you said you were 'African-Ecuadorian'.

Quoting Derico (Reply 5):
African descendants throught Latin America retain a lot of their heritage, and you can see it permeate all over Latin culture in food, music, language and religion, even philosophy and way of seeing things. To say African culture is not a determining shaper of ''Latinism'' would be an understatement.

My mother's side descended from a province were escaped slaves created their own subculture. This is not unusual in LatAm. Then again, a good chunk of Cuban culture has distinct African heritage. But Cubans would not dare call themselves 'African-Cubans', but 'Cubanos' alone.

Quoting Derico (Reply 5):
The 'Latin' race does not exist

Not really, there is waaay to much mixture to have race as an issue.
 
Derico
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:08 pm

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 6):
Not really, there is waaay to much mixture to have race as an issue.

Well, for sure. And quite honestly, I think the same applies in North America.
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BN747
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:33 pm

Interesting topic..

..from recent visits to Veracruz (Atlantic coast) and areas like Chacahua Beach, Oaxaca both in the Mexico
(pacific coast). There is a very clear African-Latino thing going on. I'm told that shipwrecked or wayward slave-ship survivors/escapees settle here and -er- became 'natives. That is very evident today. My guess about a Pacific Coast settlement..it must have been a group that traveled across the territory til reaching the Pacific.

There are issues among varied shades of skin color among latinos, darkers or indigenous peoples in Mexico the darkers are called 'moreno'. And the lighter you, the more favorable you're received..not so much in smaller communities .. but in Guadalajara and Mexico City.. this is very true!


BN747
"Home of the Brave, made by the Slaves..Land of the Free, if you look like me.." T. Jefferson
 
andessmf
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:43 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 8):
I'm told that shipwrecked or wayward slave-ship survivors/escapees settle here and -er- became 'natives. That is very evident today.

Happened throughout the area. IIRC, there are at least two communities in Ecuador that are predominantly black.

Quoting BN747 (Reply 8):
And the lighter you, the more favorable you're received..not so much in smaller communities

Very true, still somewhat to this date throughout LatAm. My wife came out as a 'morena'. Her brothers are brown hair with green eyes. She heard comments about how sad it was that she had come out so 'dark'.

We have even received some grief over having two morenas as daughters.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:06 pm

Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
for Ethiopian or other north African.

Ethiopians are NOT "North Africans" and "North Africans" are "white" (more or less admittedly)
 
captaink
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RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:33 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 8):
but in Guadalajara and Mexico City.. this is very true!

You can add just about every reasonably sized city to that. I have lived here for two years and have noted that on many ocasions. Luckily for me I am to the other extreme of the scale (I am from the black race) and not from here so I don't have a problem here. My girlfriend is hardly morena, and I suprisingly heard her say once that she doesn't why she is the darkest in her family when her parents are guerritos (very white). It is crazy.. Big grin
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AM744
Posts: 1444
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 11:05 pm

RE: Dark Skinned Latino's: Question

Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting Tsaord (Thread starter):
I wondered: do Latin people who have African ancestry embrace their African heritage at all? Or are they generally tied up in the culture of whatever island their ancestors landed on?"

The latter, generally. As mentioned before, most Latin American societies are more integrated. After the countries became independent there was never a de-facto apartheid, nor there have been legal implications based on race or ethnic group, thus lessening its importance. Also, the censuses doesn't take race into account.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 1):
hence most Cuban's seem to look like Hybrid's

Not really, I'd say Brazil is way more mixed. Cubans tend to be black or white.

For instance, we are all Mexicans, without hyphens, though discrimination is well and alive and it's not illegal for the most part.

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