wingnut767
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Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:12 pm

From the news

"Indianapolis airport officials have announced plans to add footbaths for Muslims who wish to wash before their five-times-daily prayer rituals, and that's just too much for one pastor, who has called for residents to organize and protest such an establishment of religion.

The issue has been appearing in more and more airports and other public facilities in recent weeks, where Muslim immigrants are a growing segment of those who drive cabs, and spend hours waiting on arriving passengers for their fares.


Prayer rugs at Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix, where officials boasted of having provided the customer service feature of footwashing benches for Muslims

Several years ago, officials with Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix boasted of providing a new "customer service" by providing such footwashing facilities for Muslims. "The cab drivers were asking for more washroom facilities as a group, and a majority of them wanted some place to wash before they pray," Deborah Ostreicher, public information officer, told the Arizona Republic. "This is a way we thought we could reach out as a customer service."

Similar facilities have been built at Kansas City International, although airport officials repeatedly have insisted the washing facilities are for anyone for any purpose that is aided by the presence of seating and low faucets.

The ACLU has not opposed the installation of the religion-specific facilities in other locations. When the University of Michigan installed footbaths in campus restrooms, it concluded that the university's reason was for "practical cleanliness and safety."

"They won't let us [Christians] have the Ten Commandments, Merry Christmas, or children praying at a school convocation," Hillenburg told WND. "We've had the Establishment Clause shoved down our throats for the last 40 years."



http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57935


Where is the ACLU proclaiming "seperation of church and state". If they had tried to put a fountain of holy water I am sure the Great Americans at the ACLU would have been at the Courthouse in a second.

Why are we catering to the Religion of Islam?
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RJAF
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:55 pm

When the Saudis allow a church to be built in Mecca or anywhere in Saudi, then this ungainly sight of 'feet washing' might become somewhat tolerable
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lowrider
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Tue Oct 02, 2007 10:45 pm

On the surface, it does appear to be a bit of a double standard. Using public funds to pay for facilities in a public airport to benefit a particular religion does seem to violate that separation of church and state we hear so much about. Before anyone starts in on the airport chapels or prayer rooms, these are nondenominational and available to all faiths. They are often little more than a quiet room with subdued lighting. The fact that the ACLU is so quiet over this is telling.
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Marco
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:00 pm

When the Saudis allow a church to be built in Mecca or anywhere in Saudi, then this ungainly sight of 'feet washing' might become somewhat tolerable

AMEN.

Of course people in the west will never understand this statement or the implications of what they're doing to the world.
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Banco
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:08 pm

Quoting RJAF (Reply 1):
When the Saudis allow a church to be built in Mecca or anywhere in Saudi, then this ungainly sight of 'feet washing' might become somewhat tolerable

I don't understand why people make points like this. Surely no American would want their country to be "Christian" version of Saudi Arabia? The tolerance and freedom you have (and we have) is the whole damn point of why we like living where we do.
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Mir
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting Wingnut767 (Thread starter):
Why are we catering to the Religion of Islam?

Why shouldn't an airport be able to cater to its customers if there is demand?

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Toast
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:46 pm

Crazy. Any facilities catering to religion in a public space like an airport should be banned IMO, including chapels (I don't know in the US, but the few I saw in Europe were certainly NOT non-denominational.) If somebody wants to wash his feet, the showers are there for it. It can also be done in a bathroom sink. Besides, AFAIK Muslims are not required to adhere to their ritual timetable when traveling. And even if they were, a state-run airport in a secular country should not spend its time and money attending to the "spiritual" needs of its customers.  no 
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Emirates773ER
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:49 am

Quoting RJAF (Reply 1):
When the Saudis allow a church to be built in Mecca or anywhere in Saudi, then this ungainly sight of 'feet washing' might become somewhat tolerable



Quoting Marco (Reply 3):

AMEN.

Of course people in the west will never understand this statement or the implications of what they're doing to the world.

Interesting how someone can relate building a church in Mecca to a footbath in a airport.
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wingnut767
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:02 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
Quoting Wingnut767 (Thread starter):
Why are we catering to the Religion of Islam?

Why shouldn't an airport be able to cater to its customers if there is demand?

Because of the use of public funds for a religious use. Christian forms of any type are attacked by the ACLU every day in our courts. But because this is muslim they are mum. Why?

Quoting Toast (Reply 6):
If somebody wants to wash his feet, the showers are there for it. It can also be done in a bathroom sink. Besides, AFAIK Muslims are not required to adhere to their ritual timetable when traveling.

This part of the problems. They do not want them washing there feet in the sink. People are complaing. And these are not for the travelers but mostly for the muslim cab drivers.

ACLU policy

"Our policy is to object whenever public funds are spent on any brick and mortar component of religion."


But facilities like these may soon be flying off the college campus and into a public venue near you. Foot-washing benches were recently installed at the Kansas City International Airport. And the Hoosier State has announced plans to construct foot-washing stations at Indianapolis International. The Indianapolis Star reports that as part of a $1.07 billion terminal construction project, the Indianapolis Airport Authority plans to install "floor-level sinks" in the restroom adjacent the parking lot frequented by cabdrivers.


http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...lims_footbaths_and_the_comm_1.html
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Braybuddy
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:12 am

Is this an airport which caters for a large amount of Muslims? If it is, it's probably not a bad idea, but maybe it should be funded by the local Islamic centre, in a facility rented by them.

If it's not, I can't see the point. Muslims travel through hundreds of airports throughout the world without footbaths, without any problem.
 
Mir
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:12 am

Quoting Banco (Reply 4):
I don't understand why people make points like this. Surely no American would want their country to be "Christian" version of Saudi Arabia?

Some would.

-Mir
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:14 am

Several years ago, officials with Sky Harbor Airport in Phoenix boasted of providing a new "customer service" by providing such footwashing facilities for Muslims. "The cab drivers were asking for more washroom facilities as a group, and a majority of them wanted some place to wash before they pray," Deborah Ostreicher, public information officer, told the Arizona Republic. "This is a way we thought we could reach out as a customer service."



Am I the only one who see the problem with this? The airport claims they are doing this as a customer service and in the same paragraph they are saying the cab drivers are the people who want this. The cab drivers are not customers! If they want a foot bath why don't they put a bucket in the trunk with a few gallons of bottled water. Then whenever they so desire they can pull out the bucket and wash to their harts content.
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wingnut767
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:20 am

Also

CBS) OAK LAWN, Ill. A southwest suburban school district has taken action, responding to the concerns of a Muslim parent.

But now, as CBS 2's Suzanne Le Mignot reports, other parents are angry that traditional school holidays will be renamed or even eliminated.

"That does not represent all the Muslims, all of the Arabs at that school," said Qais Nofel, the father of a student in Ridgeland School District 122.


http://cbs2chicago.com/local/local_story_271104049.html
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MEA-707
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:23 am

The ACLU's point is about forcing a religion in public schools with public money and unwanted influence it has on children who (or their parents) might not be able to choose an alternative school. In Holland, parents can choose between Agnostic, Protestant and Catholic schools. the Islamic schools are a bit under fire though because their standards might not be good enough.
An airport is a business, it's just like renting out space for a McDonalds on their premises. If they feel that they attract more passengers, airlines, and therefore revenue by offering footbaths, it is a commercial decision and noone is forced to use them.
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wingnut767
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:30 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 14):
The ACLU's point is about forcing a religion in public schools with public money and unwanted influence it has on children who (or their parents) might not be able to choose an alternative school. In Holland, parents can choose between Agnostic, Protestant and Catholic schools. the Islamic schools are a bit under fire though because their standards might not be good enough.
An airport is a business, it's just like renting out space for a McDonalds on their premises. If they feel that they attract more passengers, airlines, and therefore revenue by offering footbaths, it is a commercial decision and noone is forced to use them.

That is fine but go ahead and try to put a Holy water fountain in the same area and have it paid with tax dollars and see what happens.

And the ACLU's point is

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 9):
Our policy is to object whenever public funds are spent on any brick and mortar component of religion."
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lowrider
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:34 am

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 13):
An airport is a business, it's just like renting out space for a McDonalds on their premises.

Not exactly, it is more akin to a public school. It may collect fees and generate revenue, but it is typically administered by or on behalf of a city or county government for the public benefit, as opposed to for profit.
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fumanchewd
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:12 am

I agree that technically we shouldn't promote religion and that we shouldn't add facilities for any one religions.

But....

1. Not many airports are completely publically funded. I am no expert on this but aren't alot of the facilities paid for by the airlines and passengers? Not some general tax that everyone dips into? I am sure that some of the funds are from tax money so in theory it shouldn't be allowed.

2. Pragmatically, they will wash in the sink anyway. I have a friend who is an engineer for Intel and he hates going to the bathroom because with the wave of new engineers from Asia the muslims are frequently washing their feet in the sinks and toilets. If the airport is full of muslims washing their feet in toilets and sinks I think that it would be more convenient for muslims and non-muslims if they added the footbaths.
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AGM100
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:28 am

Hey they need to wash the infidel dust off their feet .. come on... have a heart!

Whats the big deal ?, put in the foot-wash stations ... whatever the customers want .. period.
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n229nw
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:49 am

Quoting RJAF (Reply 1):
When the Saudis allow a church to be built in Mecca or anywhere in Saudi, then this ungainly sight of 'feet washing' might become somewhat tolerable



Quoting Banco (Reply 4):
I don't understand why people make points like this. Surely no American would want their country to be "Christian" version of Saudi Arabia? The tolerance and freedom you have (and we have) is the whole damn point of why we like living where we do.

I was going to make the same point, but Banco did it for me--and probably more diplomatically than I would have. Why pick the world's most intolerant country (top five at least) and use that as the example to compare ourselves to?
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yowza
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:42 am

I'm an atheist and a capitalist. My view: government money should not pay for anything of religious significance. If the private sector wishes to cater to certain religions, that's up to them. That should be the end of the story.

As for so called Christians lashing out, well that's not very Christian behavior now is it?  Yeah sure

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ronglimeng
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:30 pm

I come late to this thread, but fresh from an experience in our washroom at work where one of my Muslim colleagues had just finished hoisting his foot out of the handwashing sink at work as I walked in. I asked myself " What do you think of that, Rong?", and after a minute or two, I figured that I was okay with it, as long as he didn't use his toes to shut-off the water.

I have a Muslim friend who says he gets around the problem by symbolically splashing some water on his ankles. What's wrong with that? Why do so many of them have to be so darn literal about everything?

On the main issue here about providing foot wash appliances in public areas, I don't have a problem. Maybe some of the rest of us could also get in the foot-washing habit.

(That gets me thinking about bidets. After a trip to Italy last year, I'm sold on bidets. How about offering them to those members of the travelling public who just want that extra degree of cleanliness?)
 
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RE: Muslim Footbaths Spark Another Fight

Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:45 pm

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 20):


(That gets me thinking about bidets. After a trip to Italy last year, I'm sold on bidets. How about offering them to those members of the travelling public who just want that extra degree of cleanliness?)

If there is one thing that I miss in canada the most, its go to be the bidet and nothing else.
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