United Airline
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Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:40 pm

Any good Australian shares to buy?

I am in Hong Kong but I do have an Australian bank account (HSBC). How do I buy Australian shares through my account?

Something not too expensive. Qantas? Telstra?

What's the minimum capital? There isn't any I guess?

Please advise. Thanks.

[Edited 2007-10-06 11:41:36]
 
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scbriml
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sat Oct 06, 2007 6:41 pm

Shares in their rugby team should be pretty cheap right now!  wink 
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QFA380
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:04 am

I would suggest buying something in mining, there are some cheap ones that are going up. Get a subscription to The Financial Review that would really help with Australian shares.

Also, have a look around Australian Securities Exchange but the best thing to do is talk to a broker.
 
melpax
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:14 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):

I'm also a HSBC customer, and they have online share trading that you can enable thru your account, you should have a word to them or check their Australian website.
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
bill142
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:34 am

You may have to be an Australian resident to use the HSBC service. From memory, most online brokers in Australia have a requirement that you have an Australian address.

My advice is probably look into something in the resources area. A small miner that's a potential take over target by a larger one may net you some good dollars.

Woolworths is a consistent, solid performer and you can make some good money out of them.

Your minimum investment will need to be AUD$500 + brokerage fees.
 
United Airline
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:35 am

I have an online savings account. Can I sign up for online stock brokerage?

Is Qantas share a good buy now?
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:11 am

Woolworths (Woolies.... ASX code WOW) has been outperforming the market for years.... has been increasing profits substantially is on a growth path with acquisitions and has growing market share... Top 10 company in Australia. Market cap about $37bn. I got shares when they were $10 ea now they are over $30 in the space of 4 years plus div payments  Smile
56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
 
bill142
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 07, 2007 5:12 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 5):
I have an online savings account. Can I sign up for online stock brokerage?

Is Qantas share a good buy now?

Log into your account, it should provide a link which will answer your questions. It will tell you if you can.

Do the research on Qantas and you will see Qantas is the right investment for you.
 
United Airline
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:25 am

Anything for short term investment?

And long term?

Australia is a small market but very stable/safe
 
bill142
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:30 am

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 6):
Woolworths (Woolies.... ASX code WOW) has been outperforming the market for years.... has been increasing profits substantially is on a growth path with acquisitions and has growing market share... Top 10 company in Australia. Market cap about $37bn. I got shares when they were $10 ea now they are over $30 in the space of 4 years plus div payments Smile

Nice work, but I bought them at 2.45 then sold some at $20. It's a nice little earner isn't it?
 
United Airline
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:03 pm

Is Air New Zealand listed in Australia?

Any good New Zealand shares too?

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 9):
Nice work, but I bought them at 2.45 then sold some at $20. It's a nice little earner isn't it?

Good!
 
baroque
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 2:59 pm

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 2):
Also, have a look around Australian Securities Exchange but the best thing to do is talk to a broker.

Who will most likely give you moderately good advice on what to buy last year.  Wow!

A good first run for established companies might be to run through the price/earnings ratios.

Presuming you are resident in HK for tax purposes, tax imputation for dividends will not be of much interest to you which may mean that dividends are less relevant to you than to most Aus resident holders. Conversely, you have less (probably none) liability for capital gains.

So Telstra currently has a high dividend and with the tax savings this makes it equivalent of over 8% for Aus residents. However, if Telstra do not win their battle with the regulators, their market share may well fall, in which case you would have capital losses without the some of the benefits of the dividend.
 
Toast
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 3:54 pm

@ Baroque: sorry for not replying to your PM, I'm having a major browser issue preventing me from doing so (see my thread "Certain actions make Firefox crash" in Site Related). I'm working on it. Feel free to SD this post after reading it.  Smile

@ the others: sorry, I've no bloody clue about Aussie shares.  Smile
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
baroque
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:02 pm

Quoting Toast (Reply 12):
@ the others: sorry, I've no bloody clue about Aussie shares.

Well the Toast tip must be close to the most honest one you will get! We can all be wise after the results. With the ASX at record levels you would have to say stay out, but then the P/E ratios are a tad below long terms averages - but then for that to be useful, long term averages would have to mean something.  Confused
 
United Airline
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:43 am

I have signed up for e-trade via HSBC. What's the commission/commission rate? Any minimum purchase for e-trade and Australian shares?

Please advise
 
bill142
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:31 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 14):
I have signed up for e-trade via HSBC. What's the commission/commission rate? Any minimum purchase for e-trade and Australian shares?

Yes. As I said earlier, the ASX requires a minimum purchase of AU$500.
 
United Airline
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:19 pm

Thanks. Commission rate?
 
andrej
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:17 pm

Hey United Airline,

how much do you want to invest? If you have less than AUS$50,000 (some would say 40K or maybe 20K and others more than 50K) then to be honest your best bet would be getting into mutual fund. I am sure that your advisors at HSBC will recommend you one that meets your needs. Be it large-cap value with Australia focus type or growth focus one or any other mutual funds the HSBC and other banks offer.

There are few reasons, for one your transaction costs will not be as big as if you would buy few shares separately. Also the mutual funds are well diversified and therefore will lower your risk exposure to the market. Another benefit is that you do not have to manage your fund. You do not have to relocate shares to stay within your portfolio allocation. (Do you want 100% of the portfolio to be . And finally in stocks only, how about fixed income, or derivatives, commodities or combination of these securities?) Also you do not have to waist your time doing research. Quality research takes time. Trust me, it takes a lots of time. Are you looking at growth company, or value company that will pay you annual dividends? This is also important for your investing strategy. Mutual Funds take its commissions, and it may be anywhere 2-5%. That depends of the fund, your initial investment and other requirements. This will cover their operation fees, brokerage fees and other transaction fees.

However if you still want to buy some shares and have some "play" money than getting into buying and selling stocks can be fun. Although you will still pay transaction fees every time you sell or buy a stock. Sometimes you make money and sometimes you loose your money. I do not know your risk allowance, but if you have AUS$500ust be advised that it is very easy to loose money. Do your research properly as I think that is very important. Remember not every good company is a good buy. (Just because you like it, does not mean that you should buy it.)

And this brings me to my last point, airlines are great companies, but usually they are not the best companies to own. I know people will disagree with me. But the truth is that they are very cyclical companies and timing is very important to own them. (Just look at prices of airlines (US ones) after 9-11 and now). Airlines are also risky, because there are many external factors that influence stock price and sometimes even good airline, may be undervalued yet market will not notice it. Now, if you want to own Qantas go for it.

But as QFA380 and Bill142 suggested, look into mining companies, Rio-Tinto comes to my mind. But to be honest I never looked at the Australian shares, have not done any research on them and I am not following any of the companies.

I hope that you will make the best choice that suites your best needs. Just remember do your research!

Cheers,
Andrej

PS I would recommend some good books, such as Intelligent Investor by *Benjamin Graham. I great book for everyone to read that is interested into finance and investing. And also, believe it or not, but you should read Letter to the shareholders by Warren Buffet!!! You can find them for free on http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/ (or you may buy the same thing for $25 at Amazon.com!)

now this guys nows thing or two about investing and reading these letters is very informative! You may gain quite some knowledge from the best in the business.

*EDIT: Benjamin Graham, NOT Bill Graham! Sorry.

[Edited 2007-10-09 13:31:34]
 
United Airline
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:13 am

I have more than that of course. It's just that I want to buy a small amount of Australian stocks to try out.

What's the commission rate?

Qantas shares as well as US airline shares are doing very well these days

Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation
 
andrej
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:28 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
It's just that I want to buy a small amount of Australian stocks to try out.

If you want to have "play" money that is fine. Just remember that you can make money and loose them easily. I would divide between "play" money, in most cases usually no more than $1000 (I do not know your actual wealth, so this may be low if you net wealth is in millions ) and than to have serious investing pool of money that you should use for real investing.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):

What's the commission rate?

A brokerage firm will charge commission rate for services its provides to you. Such as when you buy or sell stocks. I do not know how much they will charge you, but usually the rate lowers if you spend more money.

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):
Thanks a lot for the detailed explanation

I am glad that I was helpful!

Cheers,
Andrej

[Edited 2007-10-09 22:28:49]
 
bill142
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting United Airline (Reply 18):

Clearly you've signed up for a product you haven't done the research on. If you're not going to research the product, you're not going to research the investment so you're setting yourself up for failure.
 
baroque
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:54 am

Quoting Andrej (Reply 17):
But as QFA380 and Bill142 suggested, look into mining companies, Rio-Tinto comes to my mind. But to be honest I never looked at the Australian shares, have not done any research on them and I am not following any of the companies.

The miners as a group are doing very well, but do not forget that the buy on rumour sell on fact often applies. The rumours are that iron ore prices will be up about 50% next year. Even if they are up 50% - and the Chinese will have a bit of resistance there - if that does happen, the iron ore miners (includes both Rio and BHPBilliton) might still sink back a bit. BHP is bringing on a significant amount of new oil in the Gulf of Mexico but then this might still be vulnerable to hurricanes even though the platforms have been redesigned in the light of experience in 2005.

The best investment would be to work out which of the oil or mineral minors is going to make a major find. Answer to that is, not even they know!
 
AviationNut
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:12 pm

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Something not too expensive. Qantas? Telstra?

Disclaimer: Iam not a Financial Adviser.

To be fair Telstra are not a short term share if you are looking for growth at the moment and are still under quasi Government control, not something that sits well with Telstra or the Government. If you are looking for some short term "income" then you "might" consider them. If you purchase the cheaper T3 (Third Tranch) then you would be obligated to fully purchase the share at a later date if you don't sell before hand, but you will still get the dividend depending on your Nationality and your Domicile and the method in which you purchase them.

Go here for a look at rhe Australian Stock Exchange: http://www.asx.com.au/index.htm

Personally Industrial shares in Australia aren't as good as the Miners at the moment and much of the Australian Bourse is propped up by Miners and Banks. Small miners have a lot of risk attached and are propped up at the moment by development in China and India.

It always pays to research well especially if you are going to place a retail purchase in a foreign market.

Kind Regards

AviationNut  Big grin
Regrets: I only flew Concorde Trans Atlantic twice
 
CupraIbiza
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting Andrej (Reply 17):
Mutual Funds take its commissions, and it may be anywhere 2-5%.

Stay away from them! They are in it to make money for their shareholders first, investors second! Also the 2-5% MER (management expense ratio) that they charge are a rip off.

A much better option is to invest in a LIC (listed investment company) They are stock market listed companies that only trade in ASX shares and as you are both the shareholder and investor you arent ripped off! A good example is Argo Investments Limited (ASX Code ARG) They have been around since 1946, have paid a dividend every year and instead of 2-5% the effective MER is 0.12%
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United Airline
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 3:09 am

Is it advisable to start off with AU$ 500 first then another AU$ 500?
 
CupraIbiza
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 1:50 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 24):
Is it advisable to start off with AU$ 500 first then another AU$ 500?

Its better to start with more (if possible) Only because if you invest $500 then the brokerage fee (around $30) is a fair chunk of your investment. Having said that anything is better than nothing!
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:09 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 6):
Woolworths (Woolies.... ASX code WOW) has been outperforming the market for years.... has been increasing profits substantially is on a growth path with acquisitions and has growing market share... Top 10 company in Australia. Market cap about $37bn. I got shares when they were $10 ea now they are over $30 in the space of 4 years plus div payments

I work for woolies and work with alot of people who have been with the company for years, 3 people 30+years!! anyway they have shares from the old comapny share program where they got several hundred or several thousand depending on what it was for! a ladie i work with has 50,000 dollars worth of shares shes about to cash in, pretty good return.

I have shares in Rio Tinto and Qantas personally, bought the Rio for $80.00 now at $111.00 a share! gonna keep them for a while yet!
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
baroque
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 26):
I have shares in Rio Tinto and Qantas personally, bought the Rio for $80.00 now at $111.00 a share! gonna keep them for a while yet!

Best not tell you what I paid for the Rios (CRA at the time) I bought just after GWar I started then! For some reason, all the resource stocks slumped at that time. I have no idea why as wars are generally good for resource stocks.

Woolies just goes from strength to strength, amazing, as I can seldom find half of what I want when trying to shop there!  Big grin
 
QANTAS077
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sat Oct 13, 2007 9:47 pm

bang for you buck then buy into a bank or mining company...Qantas shares I've had for a while now and they are more a long-term thing, but I won't buy into an airline again!

Quoting United Airline (Reply 24):
Is it advisable to start off with AU$ 500 first then another AU$ 500?

I think there is a limit of $2000 or 2000 shares per trade..
 
pilotdude09
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 11:22 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 27):
Best not tell you what I paid for the Rios (CRA at the time) I bought just after GWar I started then! For some reason, all the resource stocks slumped at that time. I have no idea why as wars are generally good for resource stocks.

I know several people who paid under 10 dollars for them, makes you want to cry actually hahaha

One guy that my dad works with bought shares in the company the day they listed on the stock exhange, cant remember what he said but hes worth a packet now!
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
CupraIbiza
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:10 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 27):
Best not tell you what I paid for the Rios (CRA at the time)

Go on tell us!!!

Did you buy CSL as well? When they floated? I think the float price was around $2-$2.50.
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
TSV
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:04 pm

Quoting Andrej (Reply 17):
Rio-Tinto comes to my mind.

Rio doesn't know what it's doing. It's just benefitting from the overall market interest in Miners and being the third largest it's just along for the ride. It's trying to get out of Coal to a certain extent - Tarong has been sold, most of it's NSW Coal Mines are under the microscope to be sold, Blair Athol hasn't got long to go and the switch to Clermont is a bit iffy. They paid too much for Alcan - that alone managed to wipe about $20 bucks off the share price which they have only just put back on - which will be interesting to see how it fits in given that Comalco's culture is so different.

Rio has also benefitted to a large extent (twice) by the (unfounded except to the morons of this world) rumour that there was a takeover in the wind from BHP-B. That they (and BHP-B too) let this rumour build not once but twice without putting it down as ill founded speculation just goes to show the lack of ethics in the business world.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 21):
The miners as a group are doing very well, but do not forget that the buy on rumour sell on fact often applies.

Spot on. And as the biggest in the group that is why BHP-B benefits the most. The thing is when the correction or crash comes who is going to lose the most?

Quoting Baroque (Reply 27):
Best not tell you what I paid for the Rios (CRA at the time) I bought just after GWar I started then!

Well I was knocked back the staff share offer in 1994 before the RTZ-CRA "merger" / dual listing (read the stealing of CRA) and that from memory was about three or four dollars so you would have paid about two back in 1991.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 21):
The rumours are that iron ore prices will be up about 50% next year. Even if they are up 50% - and the Chinese will have a bit of resistance there - if that does happen, the iron ore miners (includes both Rio and BHPBilliton) might still sink back a bit.

Don't count on it. There are a number of other Producers varing from the large to the small that they can turn to. For example even though they are small, haven't come on line yet, and their grade is crap small Producers like Fortesque Metals are the sort of spanners that the Chinese (and others) can throw in the works to make sure any increases if any are modest. Twiggy doesn't always live up to his mouth (viz Anaconda - let alone the "TNP" (Three Nickel Provinces) but it's just the sort of thing Customer price negotiators love to have up their sleeve when going into bat against Suppliers.









Just a passing thought - in this current market it would be interesting to see what MIM would be worth. My guess is at least $25 which shows that Vince Gauci was right it was stupid to sell to Xstrata for what they did. Hindsight - it's a wonderful thing (except for those with common sense - it's just bloody obvious).
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
baroque
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting CupraIbiza (Reply 30):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 27):
Best not tell you what I paid for the Rios (CRA at the time)

Go on tell us!!!

Did you buy CSL as well? When they floated? I think the float price was around $2-$2.50.

CRA were 8.90 in 1991 - my vestigial memory was that they were a bit less than that, just goes to show!!

BHP were 9.56, later split into 2 IIRC,

Woodside 3.00 in 1994 which shows how much better they did than Santos at 3.83.

I wondered about CSL, and while I was dithering....... !  Wow!

Westpac was 3.17 in 1991, but it was touch and go whether they would go broke - different times!! And yes I was slow off the mark for CBA waiting until 1997 and 16.67 - b****r!

Not slow to lose over Telstra though - grrrr another reason for "how to vote" on 24 Nov.
 
United Airline
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:27 am

Is it the right time to buy?
 
baroque
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:53 am

Quoting TSV (Reply 31):
Well I was knocked back the staff share offer in 1994 before the RTZ-CRA "merger" / dual listing (read the stealing of CRA) and that from memory was about three or four dollars so you would have paid about two back in 1991.

Oh you were not supposed to remind me of the robbing of CRA from Aus and the consequent loss of its exploration arm. Still, the later strangulation of MIM and WMC cause much more bile these days!!

Quoting TSV (Reply 31):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 21):
The rumours are that iron ore prices will be up about 50% next year. Even if they are up 50% - and the Chinese will have a bit of resistance there - if that does happen, the iron ore miners (includes both Rio and BHPBilliton) might still sink back a bit.

Don't count on it. There are a number of other Producers varing from the large to the small that they can turn to. For example even though they are small, haven't come on line yet, and their grade is crap small Producers like Fortesque Metals are the sort of spanners that the Chinese (and others) can throw in the works to make sure any increases if any are modest. Twiggy doesn't always live up to his mouth (viz Anaconda - let alone the "TNP" (Three Nickel Provinces) but it's just the sort of thing Customer price negotiators love to have up their sleeve when going into bat against Suppliers.

Very true, but I suppose that Rio and BHP are awake to that problem, they did not spend so long getting it to a duopoly to give in easily, but it will be interesting to watch how they do it. The Twiglet does not have a great reputation for delivering on promises, but you never know, maybe this time he will. How do the grades of these other orebodies compare. In most cases the early folk took over the higher grade ores so that BHP and Rio may still have a quality arrow in their quivers - as it were.

All of the big miners and oil companies seem to fiddle around with assets that should contribute but presumably because they are not in the right quartile of costs tend to get cast aside in a pretty casual way. Still you never know, probably some idiot will look at the volatile matter yield of the Blair Atholl coal and buy it as a coking coal, a few US firms come to mind, slot it into the ASTM classification and WOW!!

I still get a smile at the discovery of the Wolfang coal - you can have a licence to explore for either coal or gold, which is it to be. Gold, ooops, it is all coal.
 
CupraIbiza
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:04 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 33):
Is it the right time to buy?

No one knows the answer to that! Having said that if you plan to hold for the long term then its always a good time. "Time in the market not timing entering the market"

as for RIO and BHP not being able to continue gouging iron ore prices, they still have assets in every other booming commodity as well. Also the Chinese have decided to relocate 1 million more people because of the Three Gorges Dam. The China story is just beginning. I think its time to stop calling it a mining "boom" (especially you Kevin Rudd) Its a mining "readjustment"
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
TSV
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:50 pm

Quoting Baroque (Reply 34):
Oh you were not supposed to remind me of the robbing of CRA from Aus and the consequent loss of its exploration arm. Still, the later strangulation of MIM

Just ask the Tax Office how much they (we) lost when the above mentioned two were given away overseas.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 34):
How do the grades of these other orebodies compare.

They are lower grades which obviously require more processing but then again I suppose one must also take into account what type of ore is in vogue in the market at the time and how much a Customer is prepared to pay for it and when it can be delivered.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 34):
Blair Atholl coal and buy it

Only able to buy it for a couple of more years and then it's shut the gates and move over to Clermont. One of the most memorable sights/sites I've ever seen was the thickness of that seam. Two P&H 2100 shovels being dwarfed by the coal seam - unbelievable!

Quoting Baroque (Reply 34):
buy it as a coking coal

Funny - I'd actually heard that one before and I could only think that it may be of use in one of the specialist Stainless Steels but never looked further into it. Do you know any more about it?

Quoting Baroque (Reply 34):
Wolfang coal

Also funny that you mention Wolfang as I thought that that one was the next one on the cards (even before Hail Creek - and what a botch they've made of that one but that's another story!) and then lo and behold it's Clermont. Are there some environmental issues with Wolfang?
"I told you I was ill ..." Spike Milligan
 
baroque
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RE: Any Good Australian Shares To Buy?

Tue Oct 16, 2007 3:20 pm

Quoting TSV (Reply 36):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 34):
buy it as a coking coal

Funny - I'd actually heard that one before and I could only think that it may be of use in one of the specialist Stainless Steels but never looked further into it. Do you know any more about it?

My first job in Aus was to analyse all 105' (from memory) of the core of that sucker. The joke about coking is that the early "formula" for a prime coking coal was about 28% volatile matter. That is about the VM for Blair Athol - due in its case to the high content of inertinite, whereas you do need some vitrinite to make coke. Back in 1961, we used Blair Atholl to show that a US steel method of predicting coke strength was total rubbish - and the eds sent it to US steel for refereeing, so it was finally published in 1964. Grrrrr!!!!

There is an issue with Wolfang, but I have forgotten what it is, I have a feeling saline waters might be one problem.

The problem with lower grade iron ores is that smelting costs are MUCH higher. You get a virtuous circle effect if you improve grades both of coke and iron ore, and conversely, if you go to lower grades a vicious circle. At about 12% ash, and additional 1% ash results in about a 2.5% increase in coke rate. Which adds up very rapidly. So BHP and Rio may still have a strong position in that market.

There are some markets where virtue is largely unrewarded, the classic being PT Adaro in Kalimantan with its Enviro coal, which has ash less than 1% and sulphur under 0.1%, both down about a factor of 5 on other "low" ash and S coals. But they basically get the calorific value for the coal and little bonus for the other properties.

Unfortunately, both Rio and BHP got rid of much of their minerals processing skills in the mid 90s. So, yes, they will both be prone to strange decisions.

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