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fxramper
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US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 8:47 am

Based on this article, can anyone explain what the hell OAK was thinking?   

The uncoolest website

[Edited 2007-10-06 02:06:10]
 
star_world
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:18 am

Sounds to me as simple as they say in the article - they had procedures in place to screen these types of flights if required but they were not told in advance that this was needed for this particular flight. Therefore standard procedures applied, and the a/c was left at a remote stand.

Why make it into any more of a big deal than that??  Yeah sure
 
siromega
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:25 am

Quoting Star_world (Reply 2):


Why make it into any more of a big deal than that??

Because it gives that drug addict Rush a chance to demonize the left? I dont think the article was well written (I read it twice and still wasnt sure if I understood everything correctly) so I really dont have an opnion on the situation, but I highly doubt anyone at OAK "hates" US troops and wants to leave them on a plane for 2 hours.

[Edited 2007-10-06 02:26:44]
 
cjpark
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:05 am

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 3):
Because it gives that drug addict Rush a chance to demonize the left? I dont think the article was well written (I read it twice and still wasnt sure if I understood everything correctly) so I really dont have an opnion on the situation, but I highly doubt anyone at OAK "hates" US troops and wants to leave them on a plane for 2 hours.

What a terrible shame, the troops were denied the comfort of friends and family because someone dropped the ball whether it was the airport, TSA or Hilltop who knows; and all you are concerned about is whether Americans can express opinions that run contrary to yours.

Way to go Champ you should be proud!
"Any airline that wants to serve the [region] can go to DFW today and fly anywhere they want," WN spokesman Ed Stewart
 
davidkunzVIE
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:37 am

Where's the problem? Soldiers experience more unbearable situations. I'd find it scandalous, if that happened to families with children or senior citizens, but soldiers? C'mon!
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airtran737
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:46 am

Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 5):
Where's the problem? Soldiers experience more unbearable situations. I'd find it scandalous, if that happened to families with children or senior citizens, but soldiers? C'mon!

I think that the big thing is that it happened in Oakland, which is by San Francisco, which is an very anti-militray community. This whole thing could have been solved with just a few phone calls. I find the level of incompetence that cause this whole situation to escalate absolutely amazing. People should be fired for this kind of crap. Semper Fi
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
flynavy
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:50 am

World Airways dropped the ball on this one initially. Blame OAK all you want, but the blame doesn't lie there - World is just as responsible for not following established guidelines for arriving charter flights. Granted, yeah - someone at OAK operations with a pair of cajones should have stepped in and rectified the situation but obviously that didn't happen - though, being that OAK's in the SF Bay area, are we all that surprised really? I know I'm not. We all know how they love the military there...
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
EMBQA
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:47 pm

Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 4):
I'd find it scandalous if that happened to families with children or senior citizens, but soldiers? C'mon!

Oh.. got ya.. So they don't deserve the same respect. OK.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 2):

Because it gives that drug addict Rush a chance to demonize the left?

Oh, because what he said was really true based off the situation he refered too...? I've seen that several time with my own eyes. People claiming to be what they really are not..... that's all he said.
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 1:53 pm

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 6):
World Airways

The article says is was North American
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
EXAAUADL
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:00 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 5):
I think that the big thing is that it happened in Oakland, which is by San Francisco, which is an very anti-militray community

Bingo!!!!
 
jetlanta
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:04 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 5):
I think that the big thing is that it happened in Oakland, which is by San Francisco, which is an very anti-militray community.

Thanks for the social commentary. Too bad you, like so many others, confuse opposition to this insane war with being anti-military. The people of the bay region are Americans. They have sons and daughters and brothers and sisters and moms and dads serving in the military. They love their country and they love the people who serve it. In fact, they'd likely submit that not putting our troops into the current disaster of a situation would have been the "pro-military" thing to do.

Statements like the one you made merely trumpet propaganda talking points designed to influence public policy. There is no factual foundation at all for the statement.

I realize I have opened up a can of worms now.
 
MattRB
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:16 pm

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 6):
though, being that OAK's in the SF Bay area, are we all that surprised really? I know I'm not. We all know how they love the military there...

So the ground handling co drops the ball and suddenly this all becomes a planned occurrence perpetrated by liberals?

Going to work for the White House Press Office soon? You'd be good with that ability to spin stuff like this.  Yeah sure
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible.
 
bennett123
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:28 pm

''If this information had been shared in advance,'' she said, ''there would have been a different outcome.'' As evidence of that, Ale-Flint noted that Hilltop had made such arrangements for an earlier North American flight that same day, and the troops were permitted inside the airport.

Clearly there is no policy of preventing troops being transfered to the terminal during layovers.

It is possible that someone simply followed the rules. I notice that a lot of folk think that they should have made an exception for the USMC. This raises two questions, firstly what other exceptions are you going to make and secondly what would the TSA reaction to that.

Also it is not unknown for soldiers to bring back souvenirs like AK47's. If someone was found with an AK47 in the terminal, then the fat would be in the fire.

David
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:03 pm

My former company had on an irregular basis troop flights coming through SEA en route to Hawaii. Normally customs and immigration was preformed there (on the plane) and it took us a year just to get TSA to allow us to let the passengers off the plane and into a sealed-off gate area (S-12). You have no idea how much verbal abuse I had to take from the troop commanders over this. And I symphatized completly. Did the TSA management have the guts to even come out and talk to the troops? No, they left it to the airline rep.

One Nation Under God? Possibly, but everything else is different.
- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
 
EMBQA
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:12 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 10):
They love their country and they love the people who serve it.

They do....? Then why are they trying to stop the Blue Angles from performing their show and stopped the USMC from filming a commercial there....??? That's not me talking.. those are facts and the San Francisco City Gov't talking........

[Edited 2007-10-06 08:23:01]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
bennett123
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:23 pm

If they do not want the Blue Angels to fly over their city, (I believe that it was only a proposal) then I am sure that there are other locations that would welcome a display.

Besides if a community do not agree with the Federal policy in Iraq, surely they have the right to say so. Why do many equate support for the war and subsequent operations with support of the Military.

In the UK, I do not think that the military has a right to march wherever or whenever they chose, is the US different?.

Over here a base or Regiment will be granted "the freedom of the city" by the Borough Council. This entitles them to march through the city on a given day.
 
wjcandee
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:30 pm

They should immediately switch the stopover point to somewhere like ONT or PSP, who would be happy as clams to have them. I'm surprised that nobody at the airline or Scott AFB got on the phone and resolved this with the local idiots. I'm also pretty confident that we'll find someone in the chain of events who was gloating that the soldiers had to stay on the a/c. In a place like San Francisco, an NAO aircraft, with its red, white and blue livery and giant American flag on the tail, must engender quite a bit of distaste among the local populace.
 
EMBQA
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:33 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 15):
In the UK, I do not think that the military has a right to march wherever or whenever they chose, is the US different?

They are not marching..... only filming a commercial. Oddly they have just finished filming in Times Square NY at rush hour and were openly welcomed by the City of NY. In SFO it was a 'NO' from the cities Film Commission citing 'traffic concerns' Even more odd... the city does allow an entire section of the city to be closed off to traffic to allow the yearly S&M and Bondage Festival which promotes and displays openly ...well........you can guess

[Edited 2007-10-06 08:34:05]
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
 
indywa
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 17):

Ah, so if the city has a large homosexual population, it's evil and anti-military? Dude, you are WAY off base. Just admit that you kinda jumped the gun by blaming the CITY for all of this.
 
siromega
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:40 pm

Quoting Cjpark (Reply 3):
and all you are concerned about is whether Americans can express opinions that run contrary to yours.

What? They're the ones with the baseless accusations. If your reading comprehension was better, you'd realize the last sentence in my post states that it wasn't malicious on any level. In the mean time just because it happed in Northern California the right wingnuts will attack regardless of the facts in the case.

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 6):
being that OAK's in the SF Bay area, are we all that surprised really? I know I'm not. We all know how they love the military there...

Yea, nevermind that its currently Fleet Week in SF. Yea, really hating the troops there....  Yeah sure
 
L-188
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:45 pm

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 18):
Ah, so if the city has a large homosexual population, it's evil and anti-military

He didn't say that, don't put words in his mouth.

But San Fransisco is a shell of what it was when it was a major navy installation.

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 18):
Just admit that you kinda jumped the gun by blaming the CITY for all of this.

Well the workers that dropped the ball are from the community and the community reflects their values.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
bennett123
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:52 pm

EMBQA

The point that I am making is that a Military event happens at the invitation of the Borough, it is not an entitlement.

Clearly the impact on traffic can be a valid concern, however it seems that SF is more favourable to Bondage and S & M that the USMC. Whilst not my priorities, surely the borough of San Francisco has the right to set it's own priorities.
 
wjcandee
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:54 pm

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 18):
Dude, you are WAY off base. Just admit that you kinda jumped the gun by blaming the CITY for all of this.

You mean the city that refused to allow the military band to film anywhere they wanted to, so they ultimately had to go onto a Federal property to do it (in the last few months)?
 
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DesertFlyer
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:00 pm

Us liberals from the Bay Area just look for ways to punish the troops! This one was pretty good, don't you think!?

Do you people seriously believe what you are saying? Sounds like it was just an error on someone's part.
 
wjcandee
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:02 pm

I also think that Global, which owns ATA, North American and World, should offer the affected troops free tickets from Hawaii to OAK on its scheduled services. This would generate tons of free publicity for the service among those good people of the Bay Area who were doubtless incensed by what happened to the troops.

This is also a wake-up call to the guys at Scott AFB that they need, at a high level, to get with TSA and work out a uniform policy that makes it easy for the contractors to get the troops into a terminal. They're welcome at Bangor. They would be welcome at PSP, ONT, etc. Why can't they be made welcome at SFO, SEA, and anywhere else they stop, with a minimum of red tape and no local TSA yahoo getting in the way of what should be a simple, uniform procedure.
 
kstatepilot
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:11 pm

Quoting DesertFlyer (Reply 23):

Do you people seriously believe what you are saying? Sounds like it was just an error on someone's part.

If it had simply been an error, then 1 phone call would've fixed the problem.

Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 4):
Where's the problem? Soldiers experience more unbearable situations. I'd find it scandalous, if that happened to families with children or senior citizens, but soldiers? C'mon!

Have you been to Iraq? do you fight for your country. All these soldiers ask for is to get out and stretch their legs.

I really feel sorry for my brothers and sisters in the military that have to put up with this...
 
GDB
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:16 pm

So, loads of threads on here all the time, about foul ups at airports, of all kinds and every size, but this one gets dipped into the plague pit of the worst kind of domestic US politics?

I guess that those in the politics/media, who will turn this into a hatefest, will not have experienced a military charter, what with their phobia for service, even when there was a draft in some cases, that matches their vitorol now for anyone who slightly disagrees or questions their bellicose agenda.

Bennett123 raised a point, though not involving air transport, when shiploads (including the liner QE2), of UK personnel returned from the Falklands war, they were told on board they'd have to clear customs in Southampton.
It is said that as a result, Southampton Water has a line of discarded captured Argentine weapons, resting on the sea bed on the approach to that port!
 
SCUMBAG
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:18 pm

In 1970 when I returned from a tour of duty as an infantryman with the 101st Airborne division in Vietnam, we were on a Capitol airlines chartered DC-8. DaNang to Yakota AFB, stuck on the plane for refuel and crew change, then on to SEA-TAC 21 hours on this overloaded flying junk pile.... Gear refused to drop on final and after one more hour of fumbling the crew got it down, Tired? Pissed? Cramped? Eaten up with bug bites and smelling like raw sewage we landed at last! No welcome, no band, just some E6 coming on board to tell us the mess hall usually offered a steak dinner and beer to the returning troops, but because we were late, and the G.D. Customs wanted us to fill out forms, and submit to a full inspection, we would miss the bus to Ft. Lewis in time to eat!!! If we had not turned in our weapons before boarding, I'm sure many dead would have been left at the tarmac. RESPECT the people who go to fight and die for this country! wave the run of the mill red tape and act like you give a damn! I guess customs mistook our visit to a combat zone for a vacation.. and as the OIC on the plane pointed out after we had been worked over by these people, not one item was found not permitted to entry. After this slap in the face in Oakland, I can't image how or where the service will EVER find troops to steep forward and fight for this country again. Please do not delete this post, just think about what you owe to these men and women who suffer like dogs for your right to sit in front of your computer and enjoy A.net.
 
as739x
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:25 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 5):

Please define your statement. How is S.F./Oakland anti-military? So funny you can say such a thing as I get ready to go up and watch the Blue Angels over that very San Francisco you speak of and were over a million people are expected to come watch and support our military. Just cause the Bay Area is conservative DOES NOT mean we are anti military. Don't be one of those people from the east who watch the news, read articles and think a group of idiot tree huggers are how the whole Bay Area thinks or feel.

ASSFO
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
bennett123
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:35 pm

Kstatepilot

''If this information had been shared in advance,'' she said, ''there would have been a different outcome.'' As evidence of that, Ale-Flint noted that Hilltop had made such arrangements for an earlier North American flight that same day, and the troops were permitted inside the airport.

Clearly there is no policy saying that troops can not disembark.

Perhaps someone can state what arrangements are required. I doubt if it involves just 1 phone call.

David
 
SCUMBAG
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:11 pm

The pre boarding screening in a combat zone takes three days..... you must turn ALL your in country issued gear, including clothing. you then are moved to a reissue area and given new clothing and showers, barber and grooming vendors, a medical screening, PX visits and wait your turn for the VA and DOD briefing, You are assigned a transit bunk, and ordered to stay in the confined "Ready" area, and look at the bulletin board every 4 hours for your flight and movement data. you are allowed to smoke, watch TV and if you have a phone card, stand in line for a chance to call home, or use an internet kiosk if you have some $$$. By the time you are ready to get on the bus for the airport, you will be wanded and pass through a gerrett metel detector.... At plane you will find another pair of wands to check you out, and your duffle bag, even officers and senior NCO"S undergo this. Anyone who could get an AK-47 pass all this deserves to keep it!
 
bennett123
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:26 pm

Mike89406/Scumbag

Perhaps TSA rules need to be changed for Military flights/Charters from certain points of departure on the basis that Pre Departure Screening is equivalent to TSA screening and the flights be exempt from TSA screening. Clearly the DOD would take responsibility for any breeches.

PanAm747

Agreed 100%. Any beefs about the mission should be directed at the Commander in Chief, not against the troops.

David
 
FreequentFlier
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:35 pm

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 14):
Ah, so if the city has a large homosexual population, it's evil and anti-military? Dude, you are WAY off base. Just admit that you kinda jumped the gun by blaming the CITY for all of this.

I can't speak for the city's opinion of the military, I can only speak to the city councilman's positions about it, considering they are elected to represent the city. And from that, its easy to say that SF is easily the most anti-military part of the entire country. In fact, one of them thinks we shouldn't even HAVE a military:

http://www.americasdebate.com/forums...php?showtopic=12163&st=60&start=60

One wonders who the councilman thinks would save his sh*t for brains if SF was under attack. I'm sure he'd reconsider at that point.
 
Mike89406
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 5:49 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 37):
Mike89406/Scumbag

Perhaps TSA rules need to be changed for Military flights/Charters from certain points of departure on the basis that Pre Departure Screening is equivalent to TSA screening and the flights be exempt from TSA screening. Clearly the DOD would take responsibility for any breeches.

Military flights do go through and/or originate/stop over in commercial airports overseas and USA. However all it says in the article is that they were in Kuwait/Newyork I'm pretty sure they originated in a commercial airport but I'm not sure what airport/s they were screened at if they are on continuing flights then they are not allowed to leave the sterile area.

The point is basically if you are a combat soldier or require a gun in line of the only. You can have the weapons freely is on an military installation in line with you're job. If you aren't working you don't wield any weapon freely they are usually turned in to a armory going off shift. This applise to MP's too.

Taking a MAC flight they were required to relinquish they're weapon before travel. The military is very strict on accountability for any ammo used/and possesion accountabilty for a weapon. missing so they wouldn't get away with sneaking a loaded rifle onboard. Countries and/or airports dont make exceptions during security checks for military and since this is post 9/11 I highly doubt there was any fraction of a chance of that happening. Maybe back in the day they were but not nowdays.

Lastly don't think that the miltary pre-screening procedures are lenient cause they aren't. Even on a military installation if that was where the flight originated they have a metal detector machine and hand held metal detector etc...X-ray machines and pat you down if they need to. Don't even joke about the word bomb in a military Air Terminal I seen security go in to defcon mode even though the person joking around was military.

But to answer your comment They most likely encountered civilian airport screeneing overseas and also
in the US once along with immigration checks so they probably met TSA or equivalant least once.

[Edited 2007-10-06 10:58:11]
 
ual777
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:00 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 10):

Thanks for the social commentary. Too bad you, like so many others, confuse opposition to this insane war with being anti-military. The people of the bay region are Americans. They have sons and daughters and brothers and sisters and moms and dads serving in the military. They love their country and they love the people who serve it. In fact, they'd likely submit that not putting our troops into the current disaster of a situation would have been the "pro-military" thing to do.

So, what about:


The Blue Angles

http://www.examiner.com/a-768103~Dal...ground%20Blue%20Angels%20show.html

USS Iowa

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8C3PH0G0&show_article=1

Marines Commercial

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=i=team&id=5673526


Instead SF decides to back stuff like this:

http://www.cnsnews.com/cns/photo/2007/092507FolosomFull.jpg
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
davestanKSAN
Posts: 1532
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 3:32 pm

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:17 pm

What an f'ed up situation. Someone seriously dropped the ball here. Nobody, especially Servicemen and Women returning home from war, deserves that kind of treatment.

But people please; let's not politicise this incident. It's easy to do, but it's childlike behavior imo.

Dave
Yesterday we've sinned, today we move towards God. Touch the sky....love and respect...Safe Star!
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:20 pm

Perhaps it was just something simple like, since it was last Friday, perhaps the only gate available to handle the 767 was taken up by the Hawaiian charter for the Oakland Raiders? The poor Marines did have a tough day, according to flightaware they had to divert to another base upon reaching the islands. (Then again I wouldn't put anything past the TSA)
 
airtran737
Posts: 3223
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RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:28 pm

Quoting Flynavy (Reply 6):
World Airways dropped the ball on this one initially. Blame OAK all you want, but the blame doesn't lie there - World is just as responsible for not following established guidelines for arriving charter flights

It was North American, not World Airways. Don't blame my company for something that we had nothing to do with. The only thing that we have in common with North American is that we are all owned by the same parent company.

Quoting AS739X (Reply 24):
Please define your statement. How is S.F./Oakland anti-military? So funny you can say such a thing as I get ready to go up and watch the Blue Angels over that very San Francisco you speak of and were over a million people are expected to come watch and support our military. Just cause the Bay Area is conservative DOES NOT mean we are anti military. Don't be one of those people from the east who watch the news, read articles and think a group of idiot tree huggers are how the whole Bay Area thinks or feel.

The Bay area is not Conservative at all, it is the complete opposite of conservative. SFO is the most liberal area of the country. And yes, the Bay area is very anti military, as UAL777 pointed out with his post.

So, what about:


The Blue Angles

http://www.examiner.com/a-768103~Dal...ground%20Blue%20Angels%20show.html

USS Iowa

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8C3PH0G0&show_article=1

Marines Commercial

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=i=team&id=5673526


Instead SF decides to back stuff like this:

http://www.cnsnews.com/cns/photo/2007/092507FolosomFull.jpg

Quoting Mike89406 (Reply 29):
Taking a MAC flight they were required to relinquish they're weapon before travel. The military is very strict on accountability for any ammo used/and possesion accountabilty for a weapon. missing so they wouldn't get away with sneaking a loaded rifle onboard. Countries and/or airports dont make exceptions during security checks for military and since this is post 9/11 I highly doubt there was any fraction of a chance of that happening. Maybe back in the day they were but not nowdays.

On a MAC flight you are absolutely correct, but this was most likely an EXM flight which would mean that they did have weapons in the cabin. There's nothing like waking up in the middle of a flight and having to hit the head. While walking to the head you are tripping over M-16's and various other weapons that are hanging out in the aisle.

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 20):
This is also a wake-up call to the guys at Scott AFB that they need, at a high level, to get with TSA and work out a uniform policy that makes it easy for the contractors to get the troops into a terminal. They're welcome at Bangor. They would be welcome at PSP, ONT, etc. Why can't they be made welcome at SFO, SEA, and anywhere else they stop, with a minimum of red tape and no local TSA yahoo getting in the way of what should be a simple, uniform procedure

They usually are welcome at the terminal at any airport. I think the blame with this whole situation is that a few people were too lazy to put their finger in a phone and get the right answers. We tech stop all over the world and are able to let the troops off in the terminal. I am sure that this was an isolated incident, but it makes the Bay area look bad.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:50 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 37):
SFO is the most liberal area of the country.

Actually, the Boston area is more liberal than San Francisco. SF has actually elected some Conservatives as mayor...

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 37):
We tech stop all over the world and are able to let the troops off in the terminal. I am sure that this was an isolated incident, but it makes the Bay area look bad.

But if there wasn't any gates available at the terminal, what could be done?
 
airtran737
Posts: 3223
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:01 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 38):
But if there wasn't any gates available at the terminal, what could be done?

Remote stand, and shuttle them to the terminal.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8558
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting L-188 (Reply 16):
But San Fransisco is a shell of what it was when it was a major navy installation.

Hopefully you're only referring to the city's status as a Navy port of call. If you were referring more generally (and ignorantly) to the overall condition of the city things haven't been better in decades. Property values are higher than they've ever been and nearly the entire downtown area is under construction with redevelopment projects. The resident population of the city is now higher than at any point since WWII. The list goes on...
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
flynavy
Posts: 2177
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:30 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 33):
It was North American, not World Airways. Don't blame my company for something that we had nothing to do with. The only thing that we have in common with North American is that we are all owned by the same parent company.

Point taken. The report I read said it was a World flight. Either way, this is a moot point. The buck stops at the parent company - does it not? I apologise though.

Quoting SirOmega (Reply 15):
Yea, nevermind that its currently Fleet Week in SF. Yea, really hating the troops there...



Quoting MattRB (Reply 7):
So the ground handling co drops the ball and suddenly this all becomes a planned occurrence perpetrated by liberals?

Going to work for the White House Press Office soon? You'd be good with that ability to spin stuff like this.  

Okay NO - first of all - I'm liberal (i.e. left of center) in politics and the LAST person I would ever work for would be a Bush croney. I'm also gay. But one thing I also am is a veteran of the U.S. Navy...

The fact of the matter is that your average San Franciscan welcomes the Folsom Street Fair and their annual gay pride events more than they welcome the USS Iowa, the Blue Angels, or Marines trying to film a commercial - which is sad because San Francisco's history has deep ties and roots with the military.

I love San Francisco - I think it's a beautiful city. But sometimes the news coming out of the Bay area has me up in arms scratching my head. "What the hell are these nimrods thinking?!"
Change is: one airline, six continents!
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:35 am

Quoting DavidkunzVIE (Reply 4):

Preposterous.  sarcastic 

Quoting AS739X (Reply 28):
How is S.F./Oakland anti-military?

You ARE kidding right?

Now, not for an instant do I think the cities or populations are to blame for this issue, but your question my friend is absolutely laughable . . . really it is.

While this was most certainly a dropped ball by the airline or the airport or both - San Francisco is as anti-military as they come . . . .

[Edited 2007-10-06 18:03:15]
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 12):
Also it is not unknown for soldiers to bring back souvenirs like AK47's. If someone was found with an AK47 in the terminal, then the fat would be in the fire.

Oakland Airport to U.S. Marines: You're Not Worthy
This morning I received an email from the brother of a Marine in the unit referenced below. The email speaks for itself and raises some disturbing questions. While outside OC, it's an issue that is worth sharing. The text below is unedited, although I have removed the name of the Marine who authored the email:


This was the last scheduled stop for fuel and food prior to flying to Hawaii where both were based. The trip started in Kuwait on September 26th with a rigorous search of checked and carry on baggage by US Customs. All baggage was x-rayed with a "backscatter" machine AND each bag was completely emptied and hand searched. After being searched, checked bags were marked and immediately placed in a secure container. Carry on bags were then x rayed again to ensure no contraband items were taken on the plane. While waiting for the bus to the airport, all personnel were in quarantined in a fenced area and were not allowed to leave.

As we came in for the final approach to Oakland a Lieutenant who served in Afghanistan with the same unit in 2006 mentioned how when they landed in Oakland they were not allowed in the terminal. He said, "they made us get out by the FED EX building and we had to sit out there for 3 hours". He also indicated he was almost arrested by the TSA for getting belligerent about them not letting the Marines into the terminal


http://www.ocblog.net/ocblog/2007/09/oakland-airport.html
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:03 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 5):

Joe McCarthy would be proud that ahis notion of "guilt by association" is alive and well today among ultra-conservatives. What a load of crap, AirTran737. Sounds like it was a screw-up, the kind of screw-ups that happened every day. It could have been anywhere, but because it was in OAK, which is "near SFO", your over-imaginative mind makes it into a huge fucking conspiracy. Shameful.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
JeffSFO
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:17 am

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 14):
They do....? Then why are they trying to stop the Blue Angles from performing their show and stopped the USMC from filming a commercial there....??? That's not me talking.. those are facts and the San Francisco City Gov't talking........

Get your facts straight. Who are "they" who are trying to stop the Blue Angels? It's one guy, Chris Daly, who is a total asshole who tried to do it and his proposal was shot down.

Also, regarding the Marine recruitment TV commercial, the city offered filming locations other than California Street but the USMC decided to film across the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...c/a/2007/10/06/MN3PSLIMT.DTL&tsp=1
 
102IAHexpress
Posts: 898
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:33 am

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:45 am

I don’t live in the bay area, but I’m there a lot. And my superficial observations of the area is that it’s definitely anti-war. But considering how openly gay the bay area is, I’m surprised they aren’t more anti-military. Obviously their big issue with the military is the ban on openly gay people serving. Thus, if you’re an openly gay citizen, not supporting an institution that won’t openly support you really shouldn’t come as a surprise to the right wingers.
I’m Catholic, but I’m not surprised or insulted that many gays are anti-Catholic.
 
skidmarks
Posts: 6614
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:51 pm

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:48 am

Ah, the land of the free, home of the brave - this whole thread kind of makes me cringe at the sniping and backbiting that occurs when an incident like this happens.

I love visiting America, but I do wonder why when I read some of the daft and inflamatory comments posted in threads like these. Seems everyone and everywhere has a political agenda and takes every petty opportunity to push it.

This sort of thing happens, it will always happen and getting irate and agitated because it does doesn't help anyone.

Mind you, the thought of civil war between the USMC and a bunch of leather clad S&M nuts seems quite an unusual proposition! Frightening but unusual Big grin

Just my twopennorth. Have a nice day y'all

Andy  old 
Growing old is compulsory, growing up is optional
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 9:34 am

Quoting IndyWA (Reply 18):
by blaming the CITY for all of this.

No, it's not the cities fault. It's the ultra left wing, yuppie, commie scum thats in that cities fault. As much as I like SF, I despise the liberalism that goes with it. Boo hoo, we hate guns, hunting, eating meat, the military, capital punishment, peace for everyone, lets hold our hands and have a giant circle jerk. F them.
 
flynavy
Posts: 2177
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:48 am

RE: US Troops At OAK; Ugly.

Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:13 am

Quoting Lobster (Reply 49):
Boo hoo, we hate guns, hunting, eating meat, the military, capital punishment, peace for everyone, lets hold our hands and have a giant circle jerk. F them.

LOL! That's just great and made my day. Well said, er em, Lobster.

 Smile
Change is: one airline, six continents!

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