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Vio
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(Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:50 pm

From CNN's Website

BERLIN, Germany (AP) -- An Iranian-born German soccer player's refusal to face Israel has sparked a public outcry in Germany, with some Jewish leaders calling Tuesday for his exclusion from the national team.

Ashkan Dejagah, who moved to Germany as a child, pulled out of Friday's game in Tel Aviv -- a qualification match for the European Under-21 Championship -- citing "political reasons." ...


http://edition.cnn.com/2007/SPORT/fo...0/09/germany.boycott.ap/index.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't want to start a political storm here and get back into any A.net political heated debate, but this is about sport. I personally think that he should not be allowed to represent Germany. As a player in the national team, he's representing his country and his country's decision, NOT his personal one! If he choses not to go to Israel, that's fine, but then he has no right to be in the national team.

 twocents 
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sandrozrh
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 7:54 pm

This has been all ove rthe news here. There were talks about banning him from the team.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:04 pm

I agree here. When he joins the national team, he makes a commitment to the sport and to the country that he will represent Germany in football. How can you make such a commitment and then pick and choose what events you participate in? He should either indicate that he is fully committed to his team and to his country by doing his duty, or he should choose not to represent his nation.

A poor sport. Tell him to fulfill his duties to his team, or kick him off.
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:14 pm

Stand up Germany! Don't wuss out.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 8:26 pm

This is also being discussed in the Ultimate Bundesliga Thread. And as said in there, if he really feels like that, and puts the Iranian way of thinking over the German way of thinking, he should be playing for Iran and not for Germany, period. I just hope the DfB-officials throw him out of the Under21-team and assure that he will never, ever play for out A-team.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:00 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 2):
agree here. When he joins the national team, he makes a commitment to the sport and to the country that he will represent Germany in football. How can you make such a commitment and then pick and choose what events you participate in? He should either indicate that he is fully committed to his team and to his country by doing his duty, or he should choose not to represent his nation.

Couldn't have put it better. If he does not want to play against Israel, he should have joined the Iranian national team.
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knoxibus
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:12 pm

Shame because sport is maybe the last refuge where such idiotic behaviour are normally banned because of the spirit accompanying the said sport.

I remember when during the football world cup (can't remember which one) Iran played the US, there was hype around it because of the symbol of this game, and this is partly what sport is about (is there not some kind of truce during the Olympics by the way?)

I see men and women (and especially now during the RWC) crying when wearing their national teams jersey during the national anthems or when seeing their flag go up like in athletics (seems like the Argentinians are the specialists at rugby, watch the next semis if you don't believe me Big grin)

And then you have this buffoon...
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:28 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 2):
I agree here. When he joins the national team, he makes a commitment to the sport and to the country that he will represent Germany in football.

 checkmark 

As a German, he should also be aware of our special relationship with Israel. He either slept through history class when they were discussing not only this relationship, but also the Third Reich, or simply ignores that part of German history. Granted, many of us may hate Israeli politicians for many reasons, but that's no reason to hate those who just mind their own business and don't care about politics.

As I've said in the Ultimate Bundesliga Thread, there was once a charity game held in Israel between a combined Israeli-Palestinian team and Real Madrid. Real won the game, but it was still a celebration. Israelis and Palestinians put their cultural, political and religious differences aside to play together in a game for charity and simply have a good time, and having a once in a lifetime opportunity to play against one of Europe's giants. This proves that sports can bring people together.

When people play against Israel on the pitch, politics must be put aside and people join in for the love of the game. Love or hate the (sports) opponent, the thing that both sides have in common is that they love the game and can still be friends, have a beer after the game and celebrate together. Bottom line: Ashkan Dejagah has proven himself to be a racist, and has no place in a National Team (and should never EVER be given the chance to play in our senior team), that has become more multicultural than ever and has a sacred duty to represent Germany in the most positive way possible.

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 4):
if he really feels like that, and puts the Iranian way of thinking over the German way of thinking, he should be playing for Iran and not for Germany, period. I just hope the DfB-officials throw him out of the Under21-team and assure that he will never, ever play for out A-team.

 checkmark 

In fact, the chairwoman of the Jewish Central Council in Germany has openly called for harsh punishment for Dejagah and wants to see him permanently banned from any German National Team.

http://www.focus.de/sport/fussball/fall-dejagah_aid_135270.html (German only)

If Dejagah wants to avoid Israel at all cost, then he should leave the country and play for Iran. Make no mistake: we do not tolerate racist players in our team and we won't tolerate any racism at all.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:35 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7):
If Dejagah wants to avoid Israel at all cost, then he should leave the country and play for Iran. Make no mistake: we do not tolerate racist players in our team and we won't tolerate any racism at all.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:46 pm

Most people who replied to this thread were quick to judge Dejagah. I wonder on what grounds; there is no personal statement by him from which we can know his motives.

As far as I'm aware, he cited "personal reasons" rather than "political reasons" as a basis for his decision. Fact is, Iran has officially forbidden their citizens to compete with Israelis, in any sport. As reprehensible as this may be, many members of Dejagah's family still reside in Iran, and it could well be that he's only afraid his playing against Israel could negatively affect them.

There have been other incidents of German-Iranian football players not competing against Israel - so far, they've pretended to be injured. Dejagah was honest about it. Though this is not a pretty thing to happen, I'm not going to condemn him without being fully informed of his motives. Equally, I'm against claims (from whoever they may come) that he should be banned from the national team.
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:11 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 9):
As reprehensible as this may be, many members of Dejagah's family still reside in Iran, and it could well be that he's only afraid his playing against Israel could negatively affect them.

Then why hasn't he said so? Isn't it obvious that him having a German passport and being at the same time a citizen of his native Iran has caused a conflict of interest in which he hasn't been fully honest with the public?

Quoting Rara (Reply 9):
There have been other incidents of German-Iranian football players not competing against Israel - so far, they've pretended to be injured. Dejagah was honest about it.

No, as I've said, he hasn't been fully honest about things. He should come clean and state exactly why he doesn't want to go to Tel Aviv. He has to remember that both Germany and Israel are UEFA teams. So, if the draw says that Germany has to play against Israel on these dates, regardless of whether it's a Euro or World Cup qualifier, Euro or World Cup final round tournament, or if Germany is to play a friendly match against them, he has to be there when nominated unless he's injured or there is a true family emergency. What he stated as personal reasons has become nothing but a blanket excuse due to him being from Iran, and he could have easily refuted any accusations of being a racist by coming clean. He didn't, he just excused himself and should consider himself guilty for having allowed these accusations to take shape.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:32 pm

Quote:
I have more Iranian than German blood in my veins. I am doing it out of respect. After all, my parents are Iranian

If he has more Iranian than German blood in his veins, then he should be expelled from the German team altogether and his passport revoked for good. To piss him off, Jogi Löw should bring Dejagah on in the 89th minute in Germany's next match, and then leave this ass off the team for good ( - meaning he would not even be able to play for Iran...).
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:35 pm

Tell him to go back and play for Iran, then. Loser.
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 11):
If he has more Iranian than German blood in his veins, then he should be expelled from the German team altogether and his passport revoked for good.

That is not really the problem. The problem is that he's making a big deal out of this and personally blows this out of proportion. Now, I once saw on the news about an Iranian who has lived in Costa Rica for decades and is a very close friend of an Israeli. Both of their shops are close to each other, but there is absolutely no hate between the two. Just the usual sales competition between their own businesses and a friendly relationship in private life. Why can't this be possible?

Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 11):
To piss him off, Jogi Löw should bring Dejagah on in the 89th minute in Germany's next match, and then leave this ass off the team for good ( - meaning he would not even be able to play for Iran...).

Meh, I'm not so convinced about that, though the base idea to nominate him just to screw his future isn't something I'd disapprove in this case. If he has to be punished, then he should at least be stripped of his passport and be required to get a permanent residence visa if he wants to stay. Like I said, we must show zero-tolerance towards racists.

Maybe we should require people who become naturalised German citizens to take some kind of oath of allegiance, making them even deeper commited to Germany and our ideals of freedom, democracy and diversity, like the US does with their future naturalised US citizens.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:52 pm

Really, what has football to do with politics? This is more than ridiculous! And what a ridiculous government is the Iranian one? They don't allow their citizens to play a game vs. Israel?  Yeah sure Sad that utter retards like Ahmadinejad abuse a game like football (and sports in general) to spray their bullshit.  Angry

When Dejagah would have class, he would send his Iranian passport back to the Iranian embassy and fly (with his German passport) to Israel to play football there!

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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:58 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 9):
There have been other incidents of German-Iranian football players not competing against Israel - so far, they've pretended to be injured. Dejagah was honest about it. Though this is not a pretty thing to happen, I'm not going to condemn him without being fully informed of his motives. Equally, I'm against claims (from whoever they may come) that he should be banned from the national team.

Let's not forget that playing soccer is HIS JOB. If he can't attend games than he shouldn't play for the team. If he was a pilot for Lufthansa or some other company the flies to Israel and would've said "Sorry, I can't go there" the company will fire him.


When I was hired to do my job, it was understood that I need to travel to the USA. If I can't or won't do it, my company will find someone who will.

Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 11):
Quote:
I have more Iranian than German blood in my veins. I am doing it out of respect. After all, my parents are Iranian

Than why is he in Germany? To take advantage of the well paid environment there? To take advantage of a free country that welcomes him there and treats him as their own, while he's being racist? I think he should go back home where his "blood" belongs.

When I moved to Canada and accepted to be a Canadian citizen, I accepted that... WITH ALL ITS RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:03 am

My point is that someone who openly states that he has more Iranian than German blood in his veins should not be a German citizen at all - let alone play for Germany.

In the end, this whole drama will only show what a complete tool he is. The joke is on him, not on anyone else.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:15 am

Couldn't Germany avoid all this hassle and call German-born players? There's an uproar every time a foreign born player does this or that, and that happens all around the world. The answer? Call native players. France could use this piece of advice also.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:48 am

You can the dog out of the fight, but not the fight out of the dog.
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Isr

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:51 am

One of the whole reasons behind international sporting events whether it is the Olympics, World Cup, etc... is to bring nations together and forgetting about the politics. This guy is totally missing the point. Why did he join the German national team anyways? Didn't it dawn on him that eventually Germany may have to play a country that is enemies with Iran? This guy should be banned from playing on the German team. If he is so loyal to Iran, why isn't he there representing them?
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 16):
My point is that someone who openly states that he has more Iranian than German blood in his veins should not be a German citizen at all - let alone play for Germany.

 redflag  You can be naturalized in Germany aka Einbürgerung.

The only saving grace this guy might have is if he would somehow be banned from Iran and thus couldn't visit family. Other than that, he's an ass.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:27 am

BTW, it's football, not soccer  Wink
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:33 am

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 14):
When Dejagah would have class, he would send his Iranian passport back to the Iranian embassy and fly (with his German passport) to Israel to play football there!

 checkmark 

Or that he surrenders his German passport and puts a permanent end to this "conflict of interests".
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Isr

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:47 am

Quoting Nosedive (Reply 20):
You can be naturalized in Germany aka Einbürgerung.

I know what Einbürgerung is; we have the same process in Switzerland - besides, it was not what I was trying to point out.

My point is, if Dejagah claims to have more Iranian blood in his veins than German, then what is he doing in Germany? Why does he bother having German citizenship at all?

Why would somebody bother to go through the time consuming and pricey process of an Einbürgerung, when said person does not even feel like a citizen of that country? Me thinks it's all just for the benefits.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:01 am

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 10):
Then why hasn't he said so? Isn't it obvious that him having a German passport and being at the same time a citizen of his native Iran has caused a conflict of interest in which he hasn't been fully honest with the public?

How do you know what he has said to the DFB? You and most of the other guys in this thread judge him on the basis of a DFB press release.

A Rara already said Dejagah fears for the life of his family members who still live in Iran. It's sad that Iran forbids its citizens to attend sport events against Israel and it is also sad that they hold family members responsible.

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 14):
Really, what has football to do with politics?

Quite a lot.

pelican
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 23):
Why would somebody bother to go through the time consuming and pricey process of an Einbürgerung, when said person does not even feel like a citizen of that country? Me thinks it's all just for the benefits.

Which reinforces my proposal for an oath of allegiance when the immigrant officially becomes a citizen.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:23 am

Why is this man not allowed to abide by his political beliefs and not play in Israel ? It's like the England cricketers refusing to play in Zimbabwe, because Zimbabwe is oppressive etc. Just because it's Israel, all of a sudden this is unacceptible ? Rubbish - as a German citizen, he's allowed to hold his own personal political beliefs whatever they may be, and act upon them in a non-violent way. Nobody has to like it, but they have to respect it.
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pelican
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:46 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 26):
Why is this man not allowed to abide by his political beliefs and not play in Israel ? It's like the England cricketers refusing to play in Zimbabwe, because Zimbabwe is oppressive etc. Just because it's Israel, all of a sudden this is unacceptible ? Rubbish - as a German citizen, he's allowed to hold his own personal political beliefs whatever they may be, and act upon them in a non-violent way.

Because he represents Germany. Therefore he is not just a German citizen. Of course it is his right to refuse to play for whatever reason. But the DFB (German Football Association) can't accept that a player uses the national team a stage to express his personal political believes which are opposed to the politics of the DFB.
However, I don't think he wants to express anything with not playing against Israel. He just tries to avoid prosecution of family members in Iran.

pelican
 
windshear
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:20 am

I heard that his reason for refusing, was that he was afraid of what might happen to him.
Ergo he is afraid that politics will affect his safety, not that his political opinions was keeping him from going to Israel.

He needs to go, see the country meet some Israelis, who are nice and warm people by the way. He needs to know, that going to Israel will not put him at any risk what so ever... Aside from the Iranian response of course.

Boaz.
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:58 am

Quoting Windshear (Reply 28):
Aside from the Iranian response of course.

Which is exactly what he fears... for his family in Iran

pelican
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:48 pm

Quoting Pelican (Reply 29):
Which is exactly what he fears... for his family in Iran

Perhaps this would be the most positive conclusion. Is this what he has said, or is it a guess?

Boaz.
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:07 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 30):

Perhaps this would be the most positive conclusion. Is this what he has said, or is it a guess?

It's a guess, but it's the most likely possibility in my view. Obviously, he isn't going to run around saying "I'm not playing in Israel, because the evil regime in Iran might punish my family for that" - that would probably have an equally negative effect on his kinfolk. For instance, his brother plays for a football team in Tehran.

I thought it's "innocent until proven guilty" - sadly Dejagah's decisions is (in this thread) taken as an excuse to express general anti-Iranian sentiment. Fair enough as long as it refers to the regime. But this guy might be in a hell of a personal situation right now; I don't think he needs our judgement whether he's worthy or not to play for Germany.
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aviationmaster
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:21 pm

What makes the situation so precarious is that this story reached the media in the first place. If security is indeed the reason, then it would have been safer to have kept all of this under the table and dealt with it accordingly with out (willingly or unwillingly) informing the press.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Isr

Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:24 pm

What makes the situation so precarious is that this story reached the media in the first place - meaning that probably half Iran knows by now about Dejagah's dilemma.

IF security is indeed the reason, then you cannot really blame him and it would have been safer to have kept all of this under the table and dealt with it accordingly and in secrecy.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:07 pm

Quoting AviationMaster (Reply 16):
My point is that someone who openly states that he has more Iranian than German blood in his veins should not be a German citizen at all - let alone play for Germany.

Then he should not have a German citizenship. Either he stands to the constitution or not.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 22):
Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 14):
When Dejagah would have class, he would send his Iranian passport back to the Iranian embassy and fly (with his German passport) to Israel to play football there!

checkmark

Or that he surrenders his German passport and puts a permanent end to this "conflict of interests".

Ok, I understand that the Iranians don't just release somebody from their citizenship.


But if he had real problems about his family and did not want to make an anti-Israel statement, there would have been other ways: He could have e.g. talked quietly to his coach a few weeks ago and he would sinply have been taken off the team, e.g. with the excuse of being sick or injured, and everything would have been ok. Everybody would have understood.

IMO, he wants to make a political statements that he supports Iranian politics with his public refusal and this is IMO unacceptable. Kick him out of the team.

Jan
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:44 pm

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
this is about sport. I personally think that he should not be allowed to represent Germany. As a player in the national team, he's representing his country and his country's decision, NOT his personal one! If he choses not to go to Israel, that's fine, but then he has no right to be in the national team.

-
it is no longer about sport apparently. Any member of a national sports team should have the chance to bail out under embarassing circumstances, for instance if being obliged to play against the team where he originates from, and other such things. Bad in this case is that the matter became public.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 2:53 pm

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 7):
we won't tolerate any racism at all.

Hansa Rostock included?

Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 11):
passport revoked for good.

Childish statement. If everybody who pulled a retard move had their passport revoked most people would be stuck in their own country for life.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 12):
Tell him to go back and play for Iran, then. Loser.

Thanks you for your valuable contribution to this football thread.

Quoting AM744 (Reply 17):
Couldn't Germany avoid all this hassle and call German-born players? There's an uproar every time a foreign born player does this or that, and that happens all around the world. The answer? Call native players. France could use this piece of advice also.

The problem with what you have to say is two-fold. 1) Making a distinction between players in the selection process based on the means by which they attained citizenship (birth vs naturalization) is hideously racist (after all not all naturalized people are the same). In Canada this is squarely against the law. Secondly if France used only "native" players as you call them, then they would suck. In fact the only 100% French players would have be Franck Ribery and Nicolas Escude. The most of the players (i.e. all the good ones) have routes in Africa and France's neighbour countries.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 26):
Why is this man not allowed to abide by his political beliefs and not play in Israel ? It's like the England cricketers refusing to play in Zimbabwe, because Zimbabwe is oppressive etc. Just because it's Israel, all of a sudden this is unacceptible ? Rubbish - as a German citizen, he's allowed to hold his own personal political beliefs whatever they may be, and act upon them in a non-violent way. Nobody has to like it, but they have to respect it.

Thank you! I'm glad you pointed this out. Though the usual suspects will call me a racist for agreeing with you.

YOWza
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:01 pm

Quoting Vio (Thread starter):
I don't want to start a political storm here and get back into any A.net political heated debate, but this is about sport. I personally think that he should not be allowed to represent Germany. As a player in the national team, he's representing his country and his country's decision, NOT his personal one! If he choses not to go to Israel, that's fine, but then he has no right to be in the national team.

Would an Israeli go to visit Iran?

I really doubt it! The two countries are at war right now. A death-match. Get over it, soccer is not above that.
 
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Isr

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:02 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 31):
I thought it's "innocent until proven guilty"

Even this term legitimizes accusation !! I really do think he has his head up his ass, if he meant the things which he said, but again there could be another explanation for his statement.

Quoting Rara (Reply 31):
Dejagah's decisions is (in this thread) taken as an excuse to express general anti-Iranian sentiment.

This is not an excuse, this was Dejagah's own words, reflecting the rhetoric and views coming from Tehran, and as you your self point out, he has a lot of family in Iran, which could also indicate as to where he stands politically.

You see it can go both ways, but his own words still reflect the negative motive, rather than a positive one... The rest is just speculation.

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
windshear
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:06 pm

Quoting YOWza (Reply 36):
Childish statement



Quoting YOWza (Reply 36):
Thanks you for your valuable contribution to this football thread.



Quoting YOWza (Reply 36):
Thank you! I'm glad you pointed this out. Though the usual suspects will call me a racist for agreeing with you.

Whoa what an attitude!  crazy 

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
Flighty
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:11 pm

Quoting Windshear (Reply 38):

Even this term legitimizes accusation !! I really do think he has his head up his ass, if he meant the things which he said, but again there could be another explanation for his statement.

It is perfectly reasonable to hate Israel and love the Jewish people. Many people feel that way... it's politics, not racism, and it's a comment on the behavior of the Israeli state. Or do we call USA-haters anti Baptist? UK-bashers anti-Anglican? Japan-bashers anti-Shinto?
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:29 pm

Quoting AirxLiban (Reply 2):
a commitment to the sport and to the country that he will represent

that sounds good, but is not realistic fairly often. To allow absentism of national players faced with having to play either against the national team of the country of original origin, or under otherwise "embarassing" circumstances is in fact quite common in football.
-

Quoting Rara (Reply 9):
many members of Dejagah's family still reside in Iran

so that HIS risks are limited by comparison I suppose !
-
 
BigTom
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:42 pm

Unfortunately politics is a part of sport, eg the Olympic tit-for-tat boycotts etc. I once remember the Indian squash team pulled out of an Asian-level tournament in Saudi Arabia, because the Saudis wouldn't give a visa to a Jewish member of the team. Rather than leave him behind the entire Indian team stayed away. Afshan's decision may have been due to personal reasons, but he will have to face the consequences and probably be left out of future teams.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:46 pm

Quoting BigTom (Reply 42):
Afshan's decision may have been due to personal reasons, but he will have to face the consequences and probably be left out of future teams.

-
Whatever the consequences for him on that side, he possibly has other possible consequences in his mind. Regrettable that this thing ever became public.
 
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LTU932
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:32 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 37):
Would an Israeli go to visit Iran?

No, but it's not just because they're at war. It's because Iran is in the Asian Football Confederation (AFC) while Israel, even though the country is technically on the Asian side of the Mediterranean, is a member of UEFA since the 1990s (they were taken into UEFA because, given their political status in the Middle East, it has become impossible for them to play in the AFC). So there is no need between the two to play official matches. The only way those two would play each other is in a World Cup or in the Olympics, but I guess in the case of the World Cup, if Israel qualifies, FIFA may prevent a game between another Middle Eastern country and Israel for security and political reasons (only possible exceptions being Egypt or Jordan) unless it's the knockout stages.
 
racko
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:15 am

Why don't we all just wait until HE gives a statement about it and ignore the yellow press blahblah?

He DID talk quietly to the coach of the team, and he agreed to now call him for this match. Do you think he would have done that if he had cited political reasons rather than explaining his personal situation? It wasn't an issue until it all went public when the yellow press somehow got their hold of it, with the usual suspects jumping on the train.

What the Central Consistory of Jews spokeswoman has to say represents neither the view of jews in Germany (I personally know some people of a jewish community here because of my girlfriend and they are even more annoyed by the Knobloch-Gang than I am) nor those of Israel. It actually doesn't represent anybody's view but the one of a few attention whores, still it's always tabula rasa as soon as they spit out some statement.

If he wanted to make a political statement against Israel, he wouldn't have tried to keep this under wraps, would he?
 
AM744
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:09 pm

Quoting Aviationmaster (Reply 23):
Me thinks it's all just for the benefits.

Probably. It would be nicer if new citizens truly believed in and loved the new host country.

Quoting Pelican (Reply 24):
It's sad that Iran forbids its citizens to attend sport events against Israel

Can't an Iranian surrender his original citizenship? Wouldn't it be a bit harsh to be subject to a law or otherwise in which you don't believe just because you were born there? I mean, it's not as if you choose where you are born.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 36):
1) Making a distinction between players in the selection process based on the means by which they attained citizenship (birth vs naturalization) is hideously racist (after all not all naturalized people are the same). In Canada this is squarely against the law.

Fair enough. Probably it wasn't a good idea, but then, the naturalization process could be greatly enhanced by actually evaluating new citizens and not "hiring" them because of their sports skills.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 36):
In fact the only 100% French players would have be Franck Ribery and Nicolas Escude. The most of the players (i.e. all the good ones) have routes in Africa and France's neighbour countries.

Precisely. Isn´t the national team supposed to represent the nation at large? Some players have even refused to sing the Marseillaise. The point made by many posters stands. Why not play for the original countries to be congruent? You can´t have it both ways.
 
fumanchewd
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:25 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 40):
It is perfectly reasonable to hate Israel and love the Jewish people. Many people feel that way... it's politics, not racism, and it's a comment on the behavior of the Israeli state.

Many people? How many? I'm sure that there are quite a few, but a majority of people who hate Israel do hate the Jewish people.

Overall its pretty immature to "hate" a country. I can't think of one country that I hate. There are those countries that have governments I disaprove of, but I would never want them destroyed. This is the crux. You hate Israel and you want it to no longer exist. People who think along these lines have illustrated a malisciously pathetic prejudice. What other countries do you want to no longer exist? I suspect none.

Why wouldn't you and these "many" people just desire that Israel change its policies? Instead they hate it and want it destroyed. This has to do with the Jewish people, not just politics. Otherwise you would hope that Israel would merely change.

It is not just politics it is also racism. It is a comment on those who "hate" Israel as well.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
OHLHD
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting Sabena332 (Reply 14):
They don't allow their citizens to play a game vs. Israel? Sad that utter retards like Ahmadinejad abuse a game like football (and sports in general) to spray their bullshit.

I wish that Iran meets Israel at a WorldCup......

Quoting AM744 (Reply 17):
Couldn't Germany avoid all this hassle and call German-born players?

I am sure there are lots of people who wish that but Germany is multi-cultural.

Quoting YOWza (Reply 36):
most people would be stuck in their own country for life.

For everyone working at an airport with passengers that would be a perfect world. Big grin


As for the argument that he is afraid of his family I can only say once he goes to Israel and scores twice he will be an Iranian hero.  Smile
 
CPH-R
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RE: (Iranian Born) German Soccer Player Avoids Israel

Fri Oct 12, 2007 11:04 pm

Is Iran one of the countries that doesn't allow people into their country if they have a Iranian stamp in the passport? I know that business travellers & others who travel frequently throughout the Middle East, usually have 2 passports or get the Israeli stamp on a piece of paper inside the passport, but in this case it's a bit more high profiled & Iran could could probably decide to make a statement out of it. So should he be banned for good from visiting relatives in Iran, just so he can play a single qualifying game?

Just asking, since we haven't really got much info to go by at all.

EDIT: Forgot to add, a few years ago, a player here in Denmark decided to say no thanks to joining the Danish national team for a training tournament in the Americas, citing that he had had a long injury time & wanted to be absolutely fit for fight. Especially since the spring part of the national tournament was due to start up again & his team was going to have trouble reaching the top spot. As a result, he was pretty much told that he would never be considered for the national team again.

[Edited 2007-10-12 16:07:06]

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