gkirk
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Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:27 pm

Just seeing it on Sky News...will post a link when I can find one...

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,70131-1287898,00.html

[Edited 2007-10-10 11:28:04]
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trekster
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:30 pm

Says a school in Cleveland Ohio.

My sky box has packed up so cant get any more info, that i picked from a scolling banner on bbc news website
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MDorBust
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:31 pm

A violent crime in Cleveland? Shocking? No, not really... It's Cleveland.
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ltbewr
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:35 pm

It's all over CNN, MSNBC, FOX News. This time it is Cleveland, Ohio, at Success Tech High School with a high percentage of college prep students. They believe the attacker is a 14 year old student there and may be dead too - not sure if by his own or by the cops. At least 3 have been taken away to ambulances, possibly 2 teachers were shot. The school is now secured and being searched by police. Many students escaped the building during the shooting. Many were trapped or hiding inside waiting for the all clear or maybe injured. Already there are complaints of recent cutbacks of security staffing at the school. Of course this will mean the school will be shut down for a while, and upon return will have to go through counseling and a sign of the failure to get to such troublemakers before they do their horrible acts.
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:37 pm

Good thing I survived High school in LA, hope this stuff doesnt happen in flight school. My condolences to anyone who is being affected by this tragedy, really curious to find out about this shooter.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
trekster
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:42 pm

Seeing the news, it seems no dead as of yet....

Mayor of Cleveland saying school now secure, 3 people taken to hospital.

Of course this is breaking news, so it MAY change.

Just hope it does not
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B747forever
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:42 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
Good thing I survived High school in LA

 rotfl   rotfl 

Okey, sorry everyone shouldn't say so.

How can a 14year boy doing this,??? God I am so scared.
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Jpax
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:46 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):

How can a 14year boy doing this,??? God I am so scared.

How does he do it? He is pissed off. He hates people. He gets a gun and brings it to school. He pulls the trigger.  tombstone 
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:47 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 10):
God I am so scared.

Why? You've apparently got nothing to worry about in Sweden.
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:48 pm

I might as well get it over with

America is the most violent country on earth and all guns should be banned.
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Jetsgo
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:50 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 13):
America is the most violent country on earth and all guns should be banned

Got your flame suit on right? K, just checkin.  Wink
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trekster
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:51 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 13):
America is the most violent country on earth and all guns should be banned.

That will NEVER happen

Never in a million years
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:12 pm

Quoting Trekster (Reply 16):
Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 13):
America is the most violent country on earth and all guns should be banned.

That will NEVER happen

Queso and I are on a crusade to get guns banned in all the 50 states
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sandrozrh
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:15 pm

is anyone surprised?

I certainly am not.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:33 pm

Not trying to start an argument or say the USA is good or bad, but one does have to wonder...

When you look at Canada, Great Britain, etc., school shootings are very rare (I'm not saying they don't happen, because they do happen. I'm simply saying that they happen far less often); but at the same time when one looks at the United States, school shootings almost seem to be a yearly thing. (And when you look at multiple other developed countries as I mentioned before, the "America has 10 times the population so of course we have more shootings" doesn't get you anywhere).

Banning guns certainly would help the problem. You can't having a school shooting if you don't have anything to shoot with. However, as others have said, cultural and social issues share the blame just as much as the guns themselves. The gun is a dangerous tool, but only when there is a person willing to pull the trigger.



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Jetsgo
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:45 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 22):
But then, those would be shocking because those locations have very low crime rates

Bullshit. All school shootings are shocking. Period. Regardless of location.
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MDorBust
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:53 pm

Something being shocking is of course in the eye of the beholder.

Violent crime in a region of violent crime is not shocking to me, it's repetition.. Shocking is when violent crime occurs where there usually is none. Would it be as shocking to you this had happened in a building that wasn't a school? Does the fact that the walls happened to inclose a school give the facility some extra aura that would make crime there so much more rare than five feet outside the door?
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JGPH1A
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:55 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 12):
Queso and I are on a crusade to get guns banned in all the 50 states

"...from my cold, dead hand !"

"Well, if you insist..."


 rotfl 

Seriously, though - another one ? Where did THIS one get his arsenal from ? Ebay ?
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checkraiser
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 7:57 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 9):
America is the most violent country on earth and all guns should be banned.

But if everyone had guns this wouldn't have happened...  Wink
N1120A is a camel-fucking terrorist.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:00 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Shocking is when violent crime occurs where there usually is none.

There usually aren't shootings at schools.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Would it be as shocking to you this had happened in a building that wasn't a school?

Yes, because public mass shootings just aren't that common.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Does the fact that the walls happened to inclose a school give the facility some extra aura

Yes it does. These are children for Christ's sake.
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scottieprecord
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:04 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 19):
These are children for Christ's sake.

Yea, kids shootin kids; It's pretty much like Lord of the Flies... Except the gun is the conch shell.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:05 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 19):
There usually aren't shootings at schools.

Could have fooled me.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 19):
Yes, because public mass shootings just aren't that common.

Uh huh. You just keep believing that. It's not like some crazy cop just killed seven people...

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 19):
Yes it does.

Magic walls... Right...

Seriously, what about a school is supposed to keep crime out? Heck, schools are the perfect crime magnets. Federal Gun Free Zones, yeah, those are working out just great.

Look. It's tragic. That doesn't mean it's shocking. It's gee, I saw that coming. Fourteen year old kids committing multiple homicides? That's nothing new, it's pretty old news in fact.
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swiftski
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:09 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 21):
That's nothing new, it's pretty old news in fact.

You're quite right.

It's the kind of news you look at and think "shit", but no longer the kind of news you look at and think "I can't beleive that has happened" - because it has so often.
 
Queso
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:16 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 12):
Queso and I are on a crusade to get guns banned in all the 50 states

Uh, YEAH, that's the ticket!  liar 

Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 14):
When you look at Canada, Great Britain, etc., school shootings are very rare (I'm not saying they don't happen, because they do happen.

When you look at Canada, Great Britian, etc., flights to the moon are very rare, too. So are sandy beaches with palm trees and 85 degree water, capitalist economies,.... shall I go on?

Quoting Checkraiser (Reply 18):
But if everyone had guns this wouldn't have happened...

That is a gross oversimplification, but there is some validity to your statement. IF more people had guns a deterrent effect would be in place and the likelihood of this happening would be much smaller because the assailant would know that he/she wouldn't make it very far before being cut down by others who may have guns. How did the Old West become civilized? It sure as hell wasn't by people laying down their arms, it was because of the proliferation of Winchester rifles and Colt handguns.
 
checkraiser
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting Queso (Reply 23):

You read too much into it. I was just trying to simplify the typical A.net gun argument.
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Jetsgo
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:20 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 21):
Could have fooled me.

Car accidents are common. School fights are common. School shootings are not.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 21):
Uh huh. You just keep believing that. It's not like some crazy cop just killed seven people...

One cop out of how many in the US? Seven people out of 300 million? Sorry, that doesn't make it common.
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MDorBust
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:26 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 25):
Car accidents are common. School fights are common. School shootings are not.



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 25):
One cop out of how many in the US? Seven people out of 300 million? Sorry, that doesn't make it common.

We'll have to use different standards of common then. Once a week on the nightly news, that's pretty common to me.
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Mir
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:33 pm

Quoting Queso (Reply 23):
IF more people had guns a deterrent effect would be in place and the likelihood of this happening would be much smaller because the assailant would know that he/she wouldn't make it very far before being cut down by others who may have guns.

I'm not sure that really applies in a high school setting when most of the people there are too young to carry guns anyway - arming the other kids is not exactly an option.

-Mir
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flight152
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:35 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 26):
Once a week on the nightly news, that's pretty common to me.

When was the last school shooting?
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:42 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 27):
I'm not sure that really applies in a high school setting when most of the people there are too young to carry guns anyway - arming the other kids is not exactly an option.

There are also teachers in a high school.

Quoting Queso (Reply 23):
Uh, YEAH, that's the ticket!

Was just trying to get you stirred up.  Smile
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Jetsgo
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 8:52 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 26):
Once a week on the nightly news, that's pretty common to me.

Although I rarely watch nightly news, I read quite a bit on the internet. And I can almost guarantee you that there are not mass public shootings once a week in the US. Especially in schools. That would mean there would have been an average of 52 school shootings in the last year. Has there even been 52 school shootings in the US?
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MDorBust
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:05 pm

Quoting Flight152 (Reply 28):
When was the last school shooting?

Today apparently.

Other shootings have occured in January, two in April, May and September.

Kids caught with guns at school, there have been several of those this week alone
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
MDorBust
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:15 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 30):
And I can almost guarantee you that there are not mass public shootings once a week in the US. Especially in schools.

Last week a crazy cop killed seven
Yesterday two were killed and two injured in a shooting at a tire store in Cali.
I could go on and on and on and on.

17,000 people are going to be murdered this year in the United States. That's almost forty six people murdered a day. Sixty to seventy percent of those will be killed with a firearm. Five percent of homicides have multiple victims. Figure the math. About 32 people dead to firearms daily, five percent of that is 1.61 people involved in multiple victim homicides committed with a firearm every day. Almost a full chance of multiple victim firearms homicide every day, and you don't think it can happen predictably in a span seven times that long?
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Jetsgo
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:22 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 32):
I could go on and on and on and on.

Please do, because I am inclined to say that is not an accurate average.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 32):
17,000 people are going to be murdered this year in the United States.

How many are going to be children? Children while at school?
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skyservice_330
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:26 pm

Quoting Queso (Reply 23):
When you look at Canada, Great Britian, etc., flights to the moon are very rare, too. So are sandy beaches with palm trees and 85 degree water, capitalist economies,.... shall I go on?

Not quite related, but I don't understand this statement. Are you saying Canada and Great Britain don't have capitalist economic systems?
 
dan2002
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:27 pm

Well, I live and go to school in Cleveland, and I never even knew the school existed.

But besides that the way it sounds was the boy was pissed off that he got suspended and came back with at gun. Its confirmed that he killed himself and that looks like the only fatality in this case.
A guy asks 'What's Punk?'. I kick over a trash can and its punk. He knocks over a trash can and its trendy.
 
b752fanatic
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:27 pm

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 9):

America is the most violent country on earth and all guns should be banned.

That is an overstatement, we are not the most violent. But we are among the most violent in the world though. Not because of guns I must say, Canada has more guns per capita and is not as violent as we are.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
MDorBust
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:34 pm

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 33):
Please do, because I am inclined to say that is not an accurate average.

I gave you the numbers. Show me where it is wrong.

If you don't believe the numbers they are all available from the BJS.

You can be inclined to believe what you want. Chosing not to believe the truth is the act of an irrational mind.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 33):
How many are going to be children? Children while at school?

Ah, so it's not a multiple homicide if the victims were adults? Interesting premise. I also like that you apparently don't qualify adults killed in schools in your victimology.

I'm sorry, I can't take your posts seriously anymore. Good day.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:38 pm

Quoting Queso (Reply 23):

When you look at Canada, Great Britian, etc., flights to the moon are very rare, too. So are sandy beaches with palm trees and 85 degree water, capitalist economies,.... shall I go on?

That has to be the worst comparison in history of Anet, interesting how you never really answer his question, why does it not happen in Canada?
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:03 pm

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 36):
That is an overstatement, we are not the most violent. But we are among the most violent in the world though. Not because of guns I must say, Canada has more guns per capita and is not as violent as we are.

wow, thats surprising

anyway, this kid killer is dead and all his targets seem to be alive, sucks for the shooters family, hopefully the victims are in stable condition.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
b752fanatic
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:17 pm

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 39):
anyway, this kid killer is dead and all his targets seem to be alive, sucks for the shooters family, hopefully the victims are in stable condition.

The big problem among these sort of cases is that once it happens they just try and demonize the attacker without ever asking themselves why have they done that. That's why I am afraid these sort of things are going to continue as long as no one tries to ask why is it that people go into these violent rampages.

We are so, "oh he is the killer, lets kill him that devil!" but no one dares to go directly to the root of the problems and investigate why is this society so violent.

I have a theory, and I think that our society is violent among many things is the constant state of "fear" that we are exposed to by our media, by our government, by many people in this country, and most importantly how people can become bullied by society, without noticing its consequences and how sensitive people sometimes are.

Weapons is not an issue, Canada as I said, which is as developed as us, has more guns per capita than us. So the theory of the weapons can be dissmissed.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
N231YE
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:48 pm

Of all places to happen...a school shooting just happened to have occurred in my city. To be honest, I have never even heard of the school until now.

Thank God none else was seriously injured or killed...and thank God I graduated high school a few years back...otherwise, I'd think my old high school faculty and administrators would have gone into "panic mode."
 
andessmf
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:51 pm

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 36):
Canada has more guns per capita and is not as violent as we are.

Source?

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 40):
I have a theory, and I think that our society is violent among many things is the constant state of "fear" that we are exposed to by our media, by our government, by many people in this country, and most importantly how people can become bullied by society, without noticing its consequences and how sensitive people sometimes are.

Sorry, nothing but BS IMHO.

The problem that I have noticed, is that kids are not taught FAILURE in school. I know pretty educated people who are very concerned about the self-esteem of their daughter, for example. But this extends into NOT letting the kid have an earful when a mistake is made. Or having all the kids win, for example. Some of you are well aware of this, when even in a simple competition, the other side is not allowed to feel like losers.

Guess what?

In real life, just like a baseball batting average, a good average is 30%. But these kids are not allowed to learn how to deal with the failures that will inevitably come in their life. Hence, once a failure occurs, they have no clue how to handle this and can lash out violently.

With my kids, if they want me to tell them they are good at something, they have to really earn it. If they fail at something, and get angry about them, all we tell them is that to be good at something takes effort, not kind words. Even with simple games, they have to beat me fair and square.
 
b752fanatic
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:31 am

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 42):

Source?

My apologies, the source that I had meant per capita in a couple of Canadian provinces compared to some of our states. So no, the gun per capita is not higher in Canada than the US. My mistake.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 42):
Sorry, nothing but BS IMHO.

The problem that I have noticed, is that kids are not taught FAILURE in school. I know pretty educated people who are very concerned about the self-esteem of their daughter, for example. But this extends into NOT letting the kid have an earful when a mistake is made. Or having all the kids win, for example. Some of you are well aware of this, when even in a simple competition, the other side is not allowed to feel like losers.

Guess what?

In real life, just like a baseball batting average, a good average is 30%. But these kids are not allowed to learn how to deal with the failures that will inevitably come in their life. Hence, once a failure occurs, they have no clue how to handle this and can lash out violently.

With my kids, if they want me to tell them they are good at something, they have to really earn it. If they fail at something, and get angry about them, all we tell them is that to be good at something takes effort, not kind words. Even with simple games, they have to beat me fair and square.

Well, that could be a good reason among the many, but not necessarily the only one nor the most important one. A lot of studies have been made in regards to this subject, and the results show a lot of different answers to why our country is one of the most violent in the world.
"Truth is more of a stranger than fiction." Mark Twain
 
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LTU932
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:39 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 12):
Queso and I are on a crusade to get guns banned in all the 50 states



Signed,
Queso

 Wink
 
ltbewr
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Thu Oct 11, 2007 2:23 pm

You also have conflicts in trying to determine people who might be of risk of such events as this school shooter. If the school gets too nosey about the kids mental health and tries to get them help, including placment in special classes, then the kid may get stigmatized, and then the parents will be ticked off as their 'perfect child' is above average fine and doesn't need any help.
One question about this sad case is how he got the guns he used and how did he somehow get to the school with them? That should be interesting especially as to both sides in the '2nd Amendment' debates.
 
andessmf
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:20 pm

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 43):
Well, that could be a good reason among the many, but not necessarily the only one nor the most important one. A lot of studies have been made in regards to this subject, and the results show a lot of different answers to why our country is one of the most violent in the world.

Yet you provide only one reason, with obvious political undertones.

Quoting B752fanatic (Reply 40):
I have a theory, and I think that our society is violent among many things is the constant state of "fear" that we are exposed to by our media, by our government, by many people in this country, and most importantly how people can become bullied by society, without noticing its consequences and how sensitive people sometimes are.
 
CanadianNorth
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RE: Another High School Shooting In The US

Thu Oct 11, 2007 4:40 pm

Quoting Queso (Reply 23):
When you look at Canada, Great Britian, etc., flights to the moon are very rare, too. So are sandy beaches with palm trees and 85 degree water, capitalist economies,.... shall I go on?



Quoting SKYSERVICE_330 (Reply 34):
Not quite related, but I don't understand this statement. Are you saying Canada and Great Britain don't have capitalist economic systems?

I was just about to say, "I don't get it". So yeah, I'm still failing to see what the moon and palm trees have to do with school shootings. Oh, by the way, for the most part Canada, Great Britain, etc, are pretty capitalistic I'd say...

Quoting Emirates773ER (Reply 38):
That has to be the worst comparison in history of Anet, interesting how you never really answer his question,

I'll second that



CanadianNorth
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