marcusair
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Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:05 pm

With the Last 2 Suspensions handed down (both By Philadelphia Players) and the Upcoming Suspension of the Florida Panther Player with a check to the head. Is 25 games and 20 games enough, too much or too little?
 
SDLSimme
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:36 pm

I think it's good that the guys in charge really let the players know that such things are not acceptable. These hits can turn out really bad and if anyone would do stuff like that outside of the hockey rink (Todd Bertuzzi vs Steve Moore to take an example) they would be prosecuted and perhaps face a stay in a prison. I belive hockey should be a physical game, but not a dangerous one.
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NeilYYZ
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:50 pm

If people keep doing these flagrant hits then I suppose that they're not long enough. I say that Campbell just keeps increasing the penalties until they stop. I don't care if the player has to miss the whole season. It's also not your Sidney Crosby's or Alex Ovechkin's that are doing these things so the team won't suffer too much without them. Look at Boularice, he's out of a job, and rightly so.
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srbmod
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:17 pm

Don't forget about Steve Downie's hit on Dean McAmmond of the Senators during a preseason game. He got a 20 game suspension from the NHL (The AHL originally planned to honor the suspension, but instead made him ineligible for the first month of the AHL season.).

If you're going to suspend a guy from the NHL for 20-25 games (or more), you need to petition the IIHF to make it so that the suspension is universal, so the guy cant just go to Europe to play. After the suspension handed down to Bertuzzi, even the IIHF got involved and banned him from playing in Europe during the Lockout. Even the AHL and ECHL honored the suspension.

The suspension Chris Simon of the Isles got last season (25 games) was seen to be harsh, but in some ways, you couldn't blame him for swinging his stick at Ryan Hollweg after Hollweg checked him into the boards like that. But then again, a hockey stick is something that could really do some damage.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 12:42 am

If it works as a deterrent then it is but I think that they are not long enough, I think they should lose half the season (35-45) games).

One thing that will work is to deter these hits is if draft picks are threatened and removed from the team and especially on a team like Philly this year because two players have done it and both gotten suspensions.

Compare it to the NFL and Roger Goodell has the right to take away draft picks from teams whose players violate the player conduct policy.
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jfk69
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:16 am

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 4):
One thing that will work is to deter these hits is if draft picks are threatened and removed from the team and especially on a team like Philly this year because two players have done it and both gotten suspensions.

Compare it to the NFL and Roger Goodell has the right to take away draft picks from teams whose players violate the player conduct policy.

I don't really agree with this one. Many times a coach will tap a player on the shoulder and tell him to motivate the team, this usually involves finding their enforcer and dropping the gloves. I don't think on many occasions the coach is the one sending these guys out swinging sticks or going after the head.

The chris simon incident is a perfect example. Ted Nolan did not tell simon to do what he did. Hollweg hit him from behind and Simon snapped. It was not premeditated.

As much as I think Campbell is crap at his Job, I think he is finally getting ballsy enough to do something.
 
srbmod
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:50 am

Back in the 1993 playoffs, Dale Hunter cheap shotted Pierre Turgeon of the Isles after a goal during Game 6 of the first round, which injured Turgeon. Hunter got a 21 game suspension for that hit.

Then there was the 23 game suspension Marty McSorley got in 2000 for his swing at Donald Brashear (Brashear hit his head on the ice as a result of the hit to the head of the stick.). That was the last game McSorley ever played because no team would touch him afterwards.

Folks thought that the goon/enforcer guys on the roster would have gone the way of the red line in the New NHL ©, but it hasn't.

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 5):
Many times a coach will tap a player on the shoulder and tell him to motivate the team, this usually involves finding their enforcer and dropping the gloves.

This is something Bob Hartley has been accused of over the years, both in Atlanta and Colorado (and even back when he was coaching in the AHL with the Hershey Bears).

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 4):
One thing that will work is to deter these hits is if draft picks are threatened and removed from the team and especially on a team like Philly this year because two players have done it and both gotten suspensions.

Interesting thing to note is that their AHL affiliate is coached by infamous enforcer Craig "The Chief" Berube. He sits #7 on the NHL's All-time list for PIMs.

There are some players who really need to be banned from the NHL period. Jordan Tootoo only got a five game suspension for the gloved punch the he threw (and connected) at Stephane Robidias. Just a few weeks ago, he delivered a head shot on Daniel Winnik that drew comparisons to the Downie hit on McAmmond a few weeks earlier. Why he didn't get a 25 game suspension is beyond me.

But the enforcers/goons of today don't hold a candle to the ones of the 1970s and 1980s.
 
airwave
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:50 am

Quoting SDLSimme (Reply 1):
I belive hockey should be a physical game, but not a dangerous one.

 checkmark  Agree 100% with this. Hockey is great when there is physicality--it adds a dimension that speed and finesse alone can not muster. But to play dangerously or with intent to injure is just wrong. Teams need to weed these players out and hang them out to dry with no consideration at all.

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 2):
If people keep doing these flagrant hits then I suppose that they're not long enough.

Or maybe the penalties are "survivable" because the player isn't being hit where it counts. Teams could be fined and the team could pass that on to the offending player. But try getting that one worked into the CBA...

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 2):
Look at Boularice, he's out of a job, and rightly so.

I'm a Flyers fan and quite frankly both hits were disgusting. That's not who the Flyers are now or are trying to be. Two idiots do not make a team. They both should've been dropped in training camp. I'm glad we're rid of them early on in the season so they're not hanging over our heads. If they never plays organized hockey again, fine by me. That's the least they deserves.

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 4):
One thing that will work is to deter these hits is if draft picks are threatened and removed from the team

I doubt that would work because it doesn't affect the aggressor at all. Most of these violent hits are isolated incidences by the aggressor--no prompting from coaching staff or fellow players. How would a team keep aggressors in check even if the team is penalized?
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marcusair
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:22 am

If you could Become Campell just for 1 day who would be your choice to ban for life from the NHL? I think that my choices would have to be Jordin Tootoo of the Nashville Preadators, Not only is he a dirty player that gets caught for his actions, He is even worde when the Refs are not paying attention by taking out goalies!
 
GQfluffy
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting Airwave (Reply 7):
Teams could be fined and the team could pass that on to the offending player.

Ah, like the NHL did last year to Calgary in the post season when Detroit was taking it too them. That coach deserves to be banned from coaching in the NHL, as does Noodles McLennan for trying to cut Franzen in half with his stick...
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StarAC17
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Mon Oct 22, 2007 5:17 am

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 5):
I don't really agree with this one. Many times a coach will tap a player on the shoulder and tell him to motivate the team, this usually involves finding their enforcer and dropping the gloves. I don't think on many occasions the coach is the one sending these guys out swinging sticks or going after the head.



Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):
Folks thought that the goon/enforcer guys on the roster would have gone the way of the red line in the New NHL ©, but it hasn't.

Well a proposed solution by a lot of analysts is to remove the instigator rule and allow two players to drop the gloves ad fight and take the 5 minutes and be done with the rule the enforcer starts the fight and gets 2 extra minutes. Let them fight and be done with it and in theory it should eliminate the cheap shots.

Quoting Airwave (Reply 7):

I doubt that would work because it doesn't affect the aggressor at all. Most of these violent hits are isolated incidences by the aggressor--no prompting from coaching staff or fellow players. How would a team keep aggressors in check even if the team is penalized?

Well using the NFL as an example because it has an image problem as well as the NHL just for off field behavior and not in game condict like the NHL does (I personally think these cheap shots are criminal but thats another issue). Roger Goodell has said that teams are responsible for their player's off field conduct and has threatened to punish them by revoking draft picks along with suspensions (I didn't mention this before). Why can't Colin Campbell do this as making someone else pay for your actions along with yourself is the best deterrent.

Article about the NFL conduct policy below:
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...10-new-conduct-policy_N.htm?csp=34
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ac888yow
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:32 pm

The suspensions are definitely not too long.

Anyway, big suspensions to a couple of irrelevant players means nothing on its own. Let's see if the league punishes a star player (like Chris Pronger) to the same extent whenever he commits an equally heinous act. Somehow I doubt it.
 
N1120A
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 10:54 pm

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 3):
Don't forget about Steve Downie's hit on Dean McAmmond of the Senators during a preseason game. He got a 20 game suspension from the NHL (The AHL originally planned to honor the suspension, but instead made him ineligible for the first month of the AHL season.).

That I like. The preseason is not a time where people should be out head hunting. I do think that a lot of the suspensions are too long. That is, except in the case of head hunting.

Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 11):
Let's see if the league punishes a star player (like Chris Pronger) to the same extent whenever he commits an equally heinous act.

As much as I liked Scott Stevens as a defender, some of the hits he made warranted huge suspensions.
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jfk69
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:20 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 10):
Well a proposed solution by a lot of analysts is to remove the instigator rule and allow two players to drop the gloves ad fight and take the 5 minutes and be done with the rule the enforcer starts the fight and gets 2 extra minutes. Let them fight and be done with it and in theory it should eliminate the cheap shots.

Agreed, They should also bring back the bench clearing brawls as well. If you look back to the time when all this was allowed, you will see that you will have a hard time finding cheap shots. With such an aggressive sports with emotions running high, you need ways to get the frustration and emotion out. Increasing fighting with less restrictions will absolutely quiet down the cheap shots.

You should check out the book: The Code: The Unwritten Rules Of Fighting And Retaliation In The NHL

http://www.amazon.com/Code-Unwritten...UTF8&s=books&qid=1193181440&sr=8-2

He talks about this in detail and it is his opinion as well to drop the instigator penalty.
 
ltbewr
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:30 pm

They should be long for repeat offenders and anybody who causes serious head injuries. To me one guideline should be if a player does a serious foul causing a player unable to play, then the attacker should be out at least for the same amount of time their victim is unable to play. There should also be team financial and draft picks penalties for major suspensions by their players, as well as suspensions of coaches who allow them to happen. As another poster noted, all suspended players should be banned from all organized hockey all over the world on all levels during their suspension term. Yes, allow a few fights as silly as they look like, but no bench clearing brawls. That can cause serious injuries to too many players.
 
jfk69
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:27 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):
To me one guideline should be if a player does a serious foul causing a player unable to play, then the attacker should be out at least for the same amount of time their victim is unable to play.

I am just curious on peoples opinion on this in regards to other sports.
 
srbmod
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:26 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 14):

The only issue I see is the potential for misuse of this. A team could potentially claim that their guy is injured for a long period of time in order to keep a player off of the ice. Similar to how some teams have taken advantage of the injury exemption to the salary cap (cough New Jersey cough).

Coaches get fined if the fights happen in the last two minutes of a game. Perhaps the fines ought to be higher and should include a bench suspension. Right now, the NHL pretty much has a blanket $10,000 fine assessed on coaches for any infraction that warrants a fine (fights in the final 2 minutes of play, criticizing officials [when you consider Mick McGough is the most criticized ref in the league, the only reason why the NHL keeps him is so they can fine coaches and players.]). .
 
jfk69
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:06 pm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200..._farber/10/24/simon1029/index.html

Interesting article on Chris Simon from SI.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 16):
[when you consider Mick McGough is the most criticized ref in the league, the only reason why the NHL keeps him is so they can fine coaches and players.]). .

Ha!! They figure thats the best way to get revenue I suppose.
 
A332
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:21 pm

Hell no the suspensions are not too long... I am sick and tired of all the "goonery" as I call it... dirty & deliberate hits that do not belong in this sport.

Todd Bertuzzi, that piece of work should have been banned for life. The fact he parades around on skates while Steve Moore's career is over is simply unacceptable.
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jcs17
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RE: Are The NHL Suspensions Too Long?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:32 am

To be fair, and represent Chris Simon as an Isles fan, he suffered a grade-2 concussion after Hollweg hit him from behind. He has said that he has absolutely no recollection of hitting Hollweg in his chest with his stick. Yes, his reaction was atrocious and wrong, but Hollweg has quite a history of questionable hits. That said, his suspension was justified. As was Steve Downie's.
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