lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:11 pm

I saw this the other day. WOW is all I have to say.

http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp
http://imdb.com/title/tt0486358/


The people in this movie are so out there, its actually scary to think. I just love how they exploit the children too. The one kid is like nine or ten and he was "saved" when he was six. Come on!
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:20 pm

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
The people in this movie are so out there, its actually scary to think. I just love how they exploit the children too. The one kid is like nine or ten and he was "saved" when he was six. Come on!

Sad things is the kid's in the movie, get taught the "Science" of creationism, and are told that Climate Change is not an issue whatsoever. Sadly, these kids are being taught to change America through politics into a country of Christian Morals and Values, building the next evangelizing politicians who will be swayed by their convictions of what "God Wants".
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:25 pm

The worst bit is that the children do not get to choose their faith. To me, that's child abuse.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:30 pm

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 2):
The worst bit is that the children do not get to choose their faith. To me, that's child abuse

sadly that how it is for most kids who have a "religious" upbringing.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
galapagapop
Posts: 861
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:15 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:32 pm

Seen and it's quite scary, now maybe a little drummed up for the documentary itself, but it still is pretty scary overall.
 
zak
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 12:17 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:35 pm

gotta watch it, wow
aint no torrents around when you need them ;(
10=2
 
san747
Posts: 4344
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 10:03 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:59 pm

I saw it about 2 months ago... You know what's funny- the more I think about it, the more I think that the filmmakers were sympathetic or "pro-these fundamentalists", you know?

It almost presents the situation as these cute little kids who REALLY believe in God.

Maybe I'm the only one who noticed...
Scotty doesn't know...
 
greasespot
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:48 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:57 pm

evangelical christianity in jesus camp is a cult...I have no idea why it is refused to be called that....

GS
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
CJAContinental
Posts: 343
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 9:03 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Wed Oct 24, 2007 10:01 pm

Quoted from Wikipedia:

Jesus Camp is a documentary about the "Kids On Fire School of Ministry," a pentecostal summer camp located just outside Devils Lake

Can anyone else see the irony: Jesus camp, kids on fire, devils lake. They could never have chosen a more appropriate name near a more appropriate location.  rotfl 
Work Hard/Fly Right.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:03 am

I haven't much seen what "Jesus Camp" is all about, but it sounds sketchy at best. It sounds like Focus on the Family, a group with generally good intentions among evangelicals denounces the director's views on methods of indoctrination. Perhaps there's an agenda among the producers.  scratchchin .

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 2):
The worst bit is that the children do not get to choose their faith.

Apart from this camp, what, in your opinion, is the parents role in involving children (their own, particularly) in matters of faith?
Living the American Dream
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:30 am

I watched it. Based on what I had heard before I watched it, I was actually not very shocked. It looked like a boot camp for younger kids. I don't particularly like the boot camp concept especially when applied to youth under the age of 12.

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
The one kid is like nine or ten and he was "saved" when he was six.

Well, I have seen children at age 4 who can describe their faith and beliefs in very specific terms, even when their parents or other influential people are not around. I believe that God can touch a person at any time in his/her life. This is not to say that such faith is immediately mature and unchangeable, though; even Mother Teresa doubted and learned about her faith.
Up, up and away!
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:33 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 10):
even Mother Teresa doubted and learned about her faith.

and she doubted till her end.....
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:39 am

Organized Religion in all forms is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:57 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
Organized Religion in all forms is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers.

Quite frankly, I find that insulting.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 3:59 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers

quite frankly, that is an accurate statement, further reading for those who dont believe in that statement should read Christopher Hitchens "god is not great"
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 4:37 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 14):

Ah, the eye of the beholder...

The best leaders are those who wish no power for themselves.
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:35 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):

You obviously haven't looked at the whole picture. There are plenty of religious communities (churches, charities, etc.) that have good intentions and are doing a lot of good in this world. Don't be blinded by the fundamentalist minorities of various religions. That line of thinking obscures your objectivity.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 15):

 checkmark 
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:36 am

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
Organized Religion in all forms is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers.

Correct

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 13):
Quite frankly, I find that insulting.

As you probably should, although that doesn't make his statement incorrect. Just depends on what side of the fence you sit. I know plenty of people who finally, "saw the light" and discarded religion. They tend to feel a bit regretful for falling for the brainwashing techniques of organised religion. I guess those who are yet to "see the light" would find those analogies quite insulting.

I personally like the idea of "insulting" the world back to reality. Religion is probably the single biggest barrier to peace, prosperity, progress, family, and human development in the world. The less influence it has on society, the better
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:46 am

How many people have been killed in the name of God? How many God Fearing Religious people have committed acts of atrocity?

The answer is countless.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:34 am

Quoting TheCol (Reply 16):
You obviously haven't looked at the whole picture. There are plenty of religious communities (churches, charities, etc.) that have good intentions and are doing a lot of good in this world. Don't be blinded by the fundamentalist minorities of various religions. That line of thinking obscures your objectivity.

I think any community that teaches it's followers to act with blind faith, not use sound reasoning, and relinquish what comes naturally to a "higher power" is quite evil. That pretty much covers all religion. To teach a child to "just believe because we say so" is just awful.

And as far as all the good work that religion organises, (charities, etc), guess what? Non religious people give to charities too, and can be quite community spirited. You don't need religion to be a good person/society. Many people seem to manage this without religion
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:49 am

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 17):
They tend to feel a bit regretful for falling for the brainwashing techniques of organised religion.

So everyone who subscribes to an organized religion has been brainwashed? Can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been brainwashed, nor forced to "just believe because we say so."

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 17):
I guess those who are yet to "see the light" would find those analogies quite insulting.

 Yeah sure

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 18):
How many people have been killed in the name of God? How many God Fearing Religious people have committed acts of atrocity?

The answer is countless.

No one is disputing that evil things have been done supposedly in the name of God. Every group has its bad apples.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:52 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 20):
So everyone who subscribes to an organized religion has been brainwashed? Can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been brainwashed, nor forced to "just believe because we say so."

No one who has been brainwashed thinks they've been brainwashed. That's how brainwashing works!
 
ShyFlyer
Posts: 4698
Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:38 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:00 am

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 21):
No one who has been brainwashed thinks they've been brainwashed. That's how brainwashing works!

Look, you don't like organized religion, I get it. But to insult someone (or a group) just because you don't hold the same views is insulting.

BTW: I don't think that an individual who has been brainwashed would regularly reevaluate their position, values, faith, etc. to make sure they were on the right path.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:02 am

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 21):

How convenient.

Some of us are well educated and have taken psychology, sociology, and other such courses and know that we haven't been brainwashed.

How about this...

You don't know why I know that I'm not brainwashed because you aren't me. If you aren't me, you don't know how I know that I haven't been brainwashed. That's how it works.

How dang diddly convenient.  Smile
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:14 am

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 22):
Look, you don't like organized religion, I get it. But to insult someone (or a group) just because you don't hold the same views is insulting.

I didn't insult anyone because I don't hold the same views. I applaud many different viewpoints. The reason I speak ill of religion has nothing to do with the fact that I think it is different. It's to do with the fact that I think it is destructive to society.

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 22):
BTW: I don't think that an individual who has been brainwashed would regularly reevaluate their position, values, faith, etc. to make sure they were on the right path.

Truly rational re-evaluation is only really possible with the correct perspective. Religion can distort that.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 23):
You don't know why I know that I'm not brainwashed because you aren't me. If you aren't me, you don't know how I know that I haven't been brainwashed. That's how it works.

No I don't, but I do know that religion is a process of brainwashing, and therefore draw the conclusion that anyone following such religion has been successfully brainwashed. With this logic, (simplistic as it may sound) I guess I don't need to know the individual followers to make this judgement. The mere fact that they are followers confirms this for me.
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 14):
Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers

quite frankly, that is an accurate statement, further reading for those who dont believe in that statement should read Christopher Hitchens "god is not great"

I've seen it in bookstores and I have a close relative who (I believe) who recommends it. I plan to check it out. I also hope this close relative reads the Bible again. I'd have no problem reading that book, but I wish my relative (among others) would read through the gospels at least for that person's own instruction.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 18):
How many people have been killed in the name of God?

On all sides, too many, and that won't stop.

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 18):
How many God Fearing Religious people have committed acts of atrocity?

Plenty on my side of the fence and beyond.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 24):
It's to do with the fact that I think it is destructive to society.

It's to do with the fact that some religions promote uncivilized and abusive attitudes and behavior and with the rest, people find a way to abuse what they find in order for their selfish pursuits.

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 24):
I do know that religion is a process of brainwashing

In some cases. But everyone has an opinion, whether it be politics, religion, culture - and many of them would love for you to embrace what they do.

A lot of people don't get that there's organized religion and then a personal relationship with Christ. Organized religion makes for rules, and then legalism and then so forth. A personal relationship with the Lord keeps it just that - personal. But even Bible-believing Christians have organized settings - and rules - and they (and I've been guilty of it) become legalistic, too, at times, and, sometimes, often, if not all the time. Christians need to be the first in line in behaving honestly as they they're (we're) not perfect. There'd be less of this issue if that happened.
Living the American Dream
 
Halcyon
Posts: 1622
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:47 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:50 am

Quoting KiwiinOz (Reply 24):
With this logic, (simplistic as it may sound) I

I can understand where you are coming from. That's great for me. However, with respect, you really need to find a different argument or a better way of wording what you are trying to say. For the present, you are saying that all religion is brainwashing, and you know this because you see all the brainwashed (followers).

We can have a very amusing discussion along these lines though...you know that, from the etic mental perspective, you've been brainwashed by...organized society?

Also, as a tidbit, you don't need to know the individual followers at all. That wasn't what I was saying.Anyway, enough with logical fallacies.


Don't know what time it is where you are, but a night to you just the same!  Smile
 
kiwiinoz
Posts: 1999
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:07 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:30 am

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 25):
It's to do with the fact that some religions promote uncivilized and abusive attitudes and behavior and with the rest, people find a way to abuse what they find in order for their selfish pursuits.

This phenomenon, whilst terrible, is generally isolated minorities and not my primary concern with religion. Extremists, fundamentalists, (and, as you suggested, charlatans) are some of the negatives of religion, but don't disrupt society in the same way that conventionally practiced religion does, primarily because this affects so many more people. "Blind Faith" as they call it, is merely a nice way of saying that one has to believe without evidence or reason. This, I believe, is a very dangerous and unhealthy practice.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:04 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
Organized Religion in all forms is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers.

Well I for one agree with the above statement.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:54 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
Organized Religion in all forms is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers.

You're discounting the faith of over 70% of the world's population.
Jesus also said in many ways that God rejoices over each and every single person who believes in Him.
Your statement is very closed minded.
Up, up and away!
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:01 pm

Quoting Redngold (Reply 29):
You're discounting the faith of over 70% of the world's population.
Jesus also said in many ways that God rejoices over each and every single person who believes in Him.
Your statement is very closed minded.

It has nothing to do with being spiritual, or believing in a deity. It has to do with the corruption that is organized religion.

You, you for one seem to be a big Organized religion person, so therefore you seek comfort and power in numbers.

One can be spiritual, and not associate with organized religion.

Your statement is closeminded. You make it seem as if your Christian god is above all.

Where is the proof of such a being? There is none.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 30):
It has nothing to do with being spiritual, or believing in a deity. It has to do with the corruption that is organized religion.

You, you for one seem to be a big Organized religion person, so therefore you seek comfort and power in numbers.

One can be spiritual, and not associate with organized religion.

Your statement is closeminded. You make it seem as if your Christian god is above all.

Where is the proof of such a being? There is none.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

In my dealings I always find the true zealots are the ones who if you do not see things there way then you are wrong, wrong and dare i say it WRONG! And never a grey area with them, it is either black or white.

I also find that for some they use religion to fill a void, thus not having to deal with issues or problems in there lives.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
TheCol
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:30 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:24 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 25):

In some cases. But everyone has an opinion, whether it be politics, religion, culture - and many of them would love for you to embrace what they do.

A lot of people don't get that there's organized religion and then a personal relationship with Christ. Organized religion makes for rules, and then legalism and then so forth. A personal relationship with the Lord keeps it just that - personal. But even Bible-believing Christians have organized settings - and rules - and they (and I've been guilty of it) become legalistic, too, at times, and, sometimes, often, if not all the time. Christians need to be the first in line in behaving honestly as they they're (we're) not perfect. There'd be less of this issue if that happened.

 checkmark 

That pretty much sums it up.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 31):
In my dealings I always find the true zealots are the ones who if you do not see things there way then you are wrong, wrong and dare i say it WRONG! And never a grey area with them, it is either black or white.

On the contrary, its pretty much black and white for most members participating in this thread.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:38 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 18):
How many people have been killed in the name of God? How many God Fearing Religious people have committed acts of atrocity?

How many hungry people were fed last year because of organized religion? At least 2.3 million, since thats how many Catholic Charities USA fed. You're ignoring a huge amount of positive contributions and gravitating to the negative aspects.

Then again, how many people have killed over money? A lot. How many atheists have killed people? A lot.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 31):
And never a grey area with them, it is either black or white.

Almost like:

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 12):
Organized Religion in all forms is a sham and a crutch for weak minded people who seek power in numbers.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:49 pm

Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 13):
Quite frankly, I find that insulting.



Quoting Aa757first (Reply 33):
How many hungry people were fed last year because of organized religion? At least 2.3 million, since thats how many Catholic Charities USA fed. You're ignoring a huge amount of positive contributions and gravitating to the negative aspects.

It is perfectly possible to be charitable and give of yourself without dragging religion and its attendant baggage into the equation. Religion is a hobby, like plane-spotting or Star Trek - enjoy it, but don't take it too seriously, and for goodness sake don't talk to anyone else about it.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
CastleIsland
Posts: 3212
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:40 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:54 pm

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 9):
what, in your opinion, is the parents role in involving children (their own, particularly) in matters of faith?

I think that parents should instruct their children that there are many religions out there and provide means for children to learn about them. Problem is, most children are unlikely to show great interest in such things, so what normally happens is that children learn about whatever faith the parents may have by attending services with the family. The problems really arise when the parents advocate their beliefs as the only one the child should adopt. At some age most of us become less dependent on our parents and no longer see them as the infallible beings we perceived as a child, and around that time, decisions regarding religions can be made. Decisions being the key word.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:42 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 30):
You, you for one seem to be a big Organized religion person, so therefore you seek comfort and power in numbers.

If... only... you... knew... And there you go again, making a overgeneralized "therefore" statement that is a leap of logic without any direct knowledge to back it up.

What if I said that your atheism means you are in complete denial and hopelessly lost to reality? You don't see me saying that, because I don't know you.
Up, up and away!
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 10:44 pm

Quoting Redngold (Reply 36):
atheism means you are in complete denial and hopelessly lost to reality?

unless there is substantial proof of the existence of a diety, besides what the Koran, Bible or the Torah might say....
it is your job to prove the existense, not ours to disprove the existense

BTW, are we getting away from the point of the thread...
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
kalakaua
Posts: 1429
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 5:23 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:03 pm

I'm shocked, but in a way, indifferent. If that is what they want to do, then fine it is. That one girl really freaks me out. But power to her. If she believes that God is more important than Gucci bags and Ferragamo shoes, that's awesome.

People do have choices. But these people have the right to stick to their convictions. Some things may seem wrong to others, but right to some. We're all human in the end. In the end, it's a personal issue of a private matter.

People are quick to discredit religion. It is all a matter of faith, not religion. We leave it up to our well-educated doctors to diagnose us properly. We hope they are not quick to prescribe us dried human excrement or draining of our blood for pestilence, as in the case with "well-educated doctors" of the 14th century.
Gravity explains the motions of the planets, but it cannot explain who set the planets in motion.
 
copaair737
Posts: 3571
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 5:00 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:45 am

Quoting Redngold (Reply 36):
What if I said that your atheism means you are in complete denial and hopelessly lost to reality? You don't see me saying that, because I don't know you.

Where did I say I was an atheist? I'm more agnostic than anything. But then again, you, the person who got on me for making generalizations go out and make a blanket statement. How ironic.

Earlier, you called my statements close minded.
How close-minded is it to think that an all supreme being, if one thing does exist, would be so vain to care about how people worshipped him/her/it?
Why would it matter? How close-minded are you religious folk to think YOUR way is better than anothers?

Organized Religion is inherently close-minded.
Livin' on Reds, Vitamin C, and Cocaine
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:52 pm

Just think of good ole Ted Haggard, do as I say not as I do.

You can cut the irony with a knife
 
KSYR
Posts: 562
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:45 pm

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:43 pm

Quoting Copaair737 (Reply 18):
How many people have been killed in the name of God? How many God Fearing Religious people have committed acts of atrocity?

The answer is countless.

Plenty. How many people did Stalin kill? Plenty. Don't forget the Cambodian massacres as well. Atheism/agnosticism has been just as lethal.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:23 am

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 34):
It is perfectly possible to be charitable and give of yourself without dragging religion and its attendant baggage into the equation. Religion is a hobby, like plane-spotting or Star Trek - enjoy it, but don't take it too seriously, and for goodness sake don't talk to anyone else about it.

Of course it is. But many charitable contributions have been made in the face of religion. Its also perfectly possible to be a murdering maniac without having religion in the equation.

And do you not discuss your hobby with other people? Personally, I'm Catholic, but I don't go around preaching my religion to strangers. Have I discussed it with friends? Sure.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 37):

unless there is substantial proof of the existence of a diety, besides what the Koran, Bible or the Torah might say....
it is your job to prove the existense, not ours to disprove the existense

Its my job to prove it to you? So you do want to be preached to? I think what you meant to say is "since this is a free country, everyone has the right to believe in whatever religion they want, regardless of the reasoning behind it."

This thread is very scary. There are quite a few very extreme viewpoints expressed on this thread from some people that probably consider themselves to be very tolerant. Not being able to see past a cross on someone's neck is no different than judging someone on their skin color.
 
luisca
Posts: 1530
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2001 11:37 am

RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:42 am

Both sides here, those questioning religion and those defending these wackos in the documentary need to chill. Why cant we all just live by the principle of live and let live?

I am a libertarian, I was a republican untill the born again evangelical nazis took over. I believe that we should not impose our morals on other people and that morality is subjective, as long as you are not breaking the law, it is your choice what yo do with your life.

With that said I have to defend religious people, I consider myself a devout catholic, but I am not stupid or ignorant, and my church has flaws just like anything that is run by humans. But saying that teaching religion to a child is abuse is ridiculous. Parents have the obligation to raise their children with their morals and beliefs, when the children develop a mind of their own then they will make their own decisions.

Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 35):
The problems really arise when the parents advocate their beliefs as the only one the child should adopt.

In the Catholic Church this is what confirmation is for, it actually states in the Catholic law that because we dont have free will when we were baptized Confirmation is the process were a young adult VOLUNTARILY chooses to be a catholic, that is why it is required for Marriage in the Catholic Church, Baptism alone is not enough.

I was brought up as a catholic and I CHOOSE to remain one, just like i could have chosen to become a Hare Krishna, me and my parents seldom agree on issues of morality and politics, but we love each other and on Sundays when we went to church together we were one family. Now we live apart and I like to believe that I am a moral human being, but I am also independent and rational and dont like to judge anybody or impose my beliefs on someone else.

Religion and morals are a personal decision and should be left to the individual, LIVE AND LET LIVE!

Now what happens with the kids in this documentary is sad because they are being BRAINWASHED into radicalism, they are to become no different in Ideology than the jihadists that are blowing stuff up al over the world, extremism and fundamentalism is a crime, and it is punished by all sensible religions.

If Jesus were here today he would be appaled by the things that some christians do in his name.

[Edited 2007-10-26 18:48:36]
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RE: Has Anyone Seen Jesus Camp?

Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:57 am

As far as organized religion goes, used correctly it can be wonderful, used incorrectly it can lead to what some describe above as well as what has been described to me about Jesus Camp. I am a Reform Jew, and, unlike many of my age who I grew up with in religous school, I fully embrace my religion and culture. It has provided me with a community in which to find myself spiritually, and to embrace the culture that has existed for generations. I, along with most Reform Jews, don't follow it blindly and the movement fully accepts and embraces that. To say that all organized religion is evil would be a blind generalization. Are there religious movements out there that encourage people not to question? Sure. Are these movements dangerous? Potentially. Are all like this? No.
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