lobster
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A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:54 am

"Speeders beware. Your neighbors might have you on their radar. That's the message police departments across the country are trying to send by loaning residents radar guns and turning them into neighborhood speed watchers."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-10-22-radar_N.htm


This is so frustrating. Speed laws are only designed to legally extort money from the citizens of this country. Pay a hefty fine, some even on the spot. Then it goes on your insurance so you get nailed that way too. Fuck that, I'm sick of people telling me speed kills, slow down, bla bla bla. I've been a paramedic for over seven years and of all the fatal accidents I've been too, alcohol was by far the #1 contributing factor. I've never been to an accident where speed was the ONLY factor involved, yet police departments across the country are so freaking anal about enforcing this asinine law. Grrrr  mad 
 
Charles79
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:08 am

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
I've never been to an accident where speed was the ONLY factor involved

Perhaps so, but it's still a factor. I agree to some extent with you that alcohol is a far bigger issue in this country, but at least here in Los Angeles drivers have a very nasty habit of speeding, and it gets annoying. And no, I'm not 65 years old! What I am is a 28-yr-old who's been following Formula 1 and WRC for many years, thus I'm a big car fan. However, because I watch so much car racing and attended so many events I have grown to respect speed, and that's what people in this country lack. Here in LA is not uncommon to see drivers exceed the posted limit by 15 MPH on a constant basis...and what for? So that you break harder and the next traffic light? Moreover, drivers in this country are not well trained, they are horrible, get distracted by eating and cell phones, and have no respect for pedestrians. Doing 80 on the freeway can be relatively safe (everyone headed in the same direction, etc), but speeding all the time in all kinds of road is uncalled for. Besides, the roads in the US are poorly maintained, thus not inspiring any sort of confidence.

I have driven at 130MPH on the autobahn in Germany, and I felt safe there. The road is extremely well kept, the drivers know, understand, and follow the rules. Everyone is aware of each other, plus the drivers have to go through a lot more training that we do here to obtain their license, thus they are less likely to do something stupid and loose their license that cost 2K euros or so. Driving in the US is almost the complete opposite of what I just described.

Handing radars to neighbors is a bit much, but enforcing the laws I see no problem with. Drivers in this country need to slow down and learn some car control first. Then we can talk about speeding.

Sorry for the rant, but this is a pet peeve of mine.

Charles
 
LAXspotter
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:14 am

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 1):
have driven at 130MPH on the autobahn in Germany, and I felt safe there. The road is extremely well kept, the drivers know, understand, and follow the rules. Everyone is aware of each other, plus the drivers have to go through a lot more training that we do here to obtain their license, thus they are less likely to do something stupid and loose their license that cost 2K euros or so. Driving in the US is almost the complete opposite of what I just described.

so true. In German roads, the fatest cars doesnt have to weave in and out of traffic, the slow car in front of him will simply step over to the right, so much better. Most drivers here are much more distracted, I think Autobahn drivers know the risks of being distracted at 125MPH.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
ltbewr
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:39 am

I think most of the use of speed cameras by citizens in this story are in primarily residential neighborhoods, where drivers often drive well over the posted speed limits, where frequently accidents occur, near schools and have significant pedestrian traffic, especially children. Let's face it, if a speed limit is 25 and many go more like 30 to 35 or even 40, it will take longer for a driver to stop their vehicle in case something happens like a ball rolling out into the street or someone is backing out of their driveway as example. Police cannot be everywhere, nor would we want them to deter speeding. By these volunteers being out with the speed guns, they may discipline those who frequently drive in such areas to watch their speed and make the streets safer in that area.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:00 am

These citizens obviously write tickets, but by having radars, they can prove that people are indeed speeding through the area and get more police presence that way. Same idea as having speed trailers.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
graphic
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:30 am

Speed limits are necessary in congested areas, but why the hell do they care if I'm doing 90 down I-29 on that empty stretch between Fargo and Sioux Falls?
Demand Media fails at life
 
LAXspotter
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:46 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 5):
doing 90 down I-29 on that empty stretch between Fargo and Sioux Falls?

I understand your first point, we definetely need regulation on congested roads, but in rural areas, I dont understand why its 65. I would be actually more comfortable doing 80 in the LA area because everyone seems to be moving at that speed, so the chances of me getting a ticket are much less than if I were going 15 over the limit in a rural area.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
GQfluffy
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:49 am

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
Speed laws are only designed to legally extort money from the citizens of this country.

 Yeah sure Oh to be ignorant...

So, you think you can do 60 mph just fine through a residential zone and stop in time not to hit that kid who's chasing his/her ball that rolled out into the street?

Sure this is just a certain situation, and I'm sure you meant speed limits on Interstates/highways, etc. But one should expect a smart-assed response for such a stupid, generalized statement...
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:02 am

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
Speed laws are only designed to legally extort money from the citizens of this country.

Yeah, that's why they are there, good call. Not to keep morons from driving so fast they are killing other people on the road.

Plus, who cares if they're loaning out the guns, I thought you'd like that, there's less radar guns for the police to actually write legitimate tickets with.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
flymia
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 7:46 am

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
I've been a paramedic for over seven years and of all the fatal accidents I've been too, alcohol was by far the #1 contributing factor. I've never been to an accident where speed was the ONLY factor involved, yet police departments across the country are so freaking anal about enforcing this asinine law.

Exactly. Now everything I am about to say does not include residential areas or urban congested roads.
But speed limits on highways and some larger un congested roads are WAY TO LOW! 55mph at 2am on a dry and lighted highway is crazy. It is completely safe to drive at 80-85mph or even 100mph on some stretches under those circumstances.
Also some areas in Miami where the only reason the city is still Incorporated is because of the money they make on speeding tickets. One area called Bal Harbour. It is just one stretch of road three-four lanes wide with apartment buildings on both sides. Very little pedestrian traffic and most of the day the road is not congested yet the speed limit is 30mph! Give me a break, and there are a good amount of cops for this small area too. Its crazy, there are so many cops I never do more than 33mph. But this is a 3-4 lane avenue. At least have it at 35mph.
But the main problem with the US is people dont know how to drive and it is way to easy to get your license. You dont even have to parallel park to get your license in the state of Florida, yet you need to know how to park your car on a hill??? yea those massive 300ft hills in Upstate Florida.

Getting my license was one of the easiest things i have ever done in my life, yet it gives me the privilege to do one of the most dangerous things I will ever do in my life...
But Speed does not kill people, bad/stupid drivers speeding kill people.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
LAXspotter
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:26 am

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 9):
You dont even have to parallel park to get your license in the state of Florida, yet you need to know how to park your car on a hill??? yea those massive 300ft hills in Upstate Florida.

LOL, so true. I hate to stereotype but I being an Asian have noticed the Asian women who drive Lexuses and other luxury cars have a hell of a time parking, much less parallel parking, and this is from experience. Frankly, if one cant park the car properly one shouldnt be allowed to drive.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:31 am

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 9):
But Speed does not kill people, bad/stupid drivers speeding kill people.

Oh, well then it's easy, we'll test everyone, and put big green stickers on the cars of those who are good drivers, and red ones on cars of people who tested as bad drivers. Then police can spend all their time focusing on red stickers and ignore the green stickers.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:38 am

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 8):
Plus, who cares if they're loaning out the guns, I thought you'd like that, there's less radar guns for the police to actually write legitimate tickets with.

The problem with handing some speed guns to citizens is that some of these folks who might be biased might abuse the system, have a personal agenda against other citizens and fine the hell out of each other until it gets out of hand. I just don't see how this is going to work.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:46 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 12):
The problem with handing some speed guns to citizens is that some of these folks who might be biased might abuse the system, have a personal agenda against other citizens and fine the hell out of each other until it gets out of hand. I just don't see how this is going to work.

But the citizens can't fine each other. The only thing they can do is notify the police who may or may not send out a warning letter. If anything the most this would do is notify police of areas where people are speeding excessively, but the ultimate authority to hand out tickets still lies in the hands of the police.

This is really just people playing with radar guns.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
AirframeAS
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:56 am

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 13):

That makes more sense now.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
luisca
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:49 pm

The speed limit in Interstates should be 90. Inside towns and residential areas of course we need speed enforcement, but no the highways we should move towards a systems like Germany's.

The town were I live in has the nastiest cops that will give you a ticket for anything.I have had 2 tickets and they have both been ridiculous, both for going 7 over the limit on a "residential area" One was on a Sunday afternoon I totally lost track of speed following traffic and just because I was the last one in the row of cars I get pulled over, clean record but the guy slams me with the ticket. The second time I was driving at night and the F#@$ cop pulled me over to try and slam me a DUI; had been tailing me for a good 15 minutes, I was sober so when I complained that he pulled me over for no good reason he gave me a 88 dollar ticket, thats why I hate cops! especially in the little old redneck town.
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
aa757first
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:56 pm

Maybe this isn't such a bad idea. Unfortunately, the way speed limits are enforced is the opposite of how they should be enforced. There should be cops in a residential area pulling over people that are going 40 MPH where kids play. But I guess they wouldn't make enough money that way, since there are less cars and (hopefully) less speeders. So instead they pull over people that are going 85 MPH on an uncrowded highway on a nice sunny day.
 
itsjustme
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 2:21 pm

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
I've been a paramedic for over seven years and of all the fatal accidents I've been too, alcohol was by far the #1 contributing factor.

And I've been a cop (and an accident reconstructionist) for over 20 years and I disagree with your sweeping generalization. Please tell me how being a paramedic qualifies you to determine what the factors are of a crash you've been dispatched to; fatal or otherwise. I've been on a fair amount of traffic crashes in my career and I don't recall ever seeing the EMS crew interviewing witnesses, measuring skid marks, or inspecting the vehicles involved in the crash after they've been impounded. Further, doesn't the speed of the vehicle(s) involved play a role in how you treat the victims? For example, when you have a victim of a low speed impact crash compared to one of a high speed impact crash, who is more apt to have serious injuries? Also, who are you more apt to suspect will have more serious injuries, even though they're not obvious, and treat for such? If I rear end a vehicle while doing 5mph are you going to treat me the same as if I were doing 60mph at the time of impact? Of course you're not. In the latter scenario, even if I'm not displaying any signs of internal trauma, you're going to assume such and c-spine me and treat me accordingly. Point being, speed not only plays a role in the mechanics of a crash, but it also dictates how the victims are treated.

It's been my experience that speed does play a role in most fatal crashes. Common sense tells us that the faster you're traveling results in diminishing your ability to react to an unforeseen situation, like that child chasing his ball into the street or the idiot in front of you on the freeway who just has to make that 3 lane change to get to his exit that he didn't notice because he is talking on his cell phone. And let's not forget the fact that driving is a privilege. Either play by the rules or take the bus. Pretty simple concept.
 
AirCop
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 3:31 pm

Well said Itjustme  wideeyed 

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
Common sense tells us that the faster you're traveling results in diminishing your ability to react to an unforeseen situation, like that child chasing his ball into the street or the idiot in front of you on the freeway who just has to make that 3 lane change to get to his exit that he didn't notice because he is talking on his cell phone.

And of course the faster you go, the stopping distance increases..

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
And let's not forget the fact that driving is a privilege.

Apparently this is a concept people don't understand; at any given time 30% of the drivers are unlicensed, and near midnight to four am. is some areas the rate climbs to 50%.

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 6):
but in rural areas, I dont understand why its 65.

Rural interstates are 70 in CA, 75 in AZ, and parts of Texas 80. Actually how much faster do you need to go?
 
GQfluffy
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:09 pm

Quoting Luisca (Reply 15):
The speed limit in Interstates should be 90.

Again, why? There's a fair amount of vehicles on today's interstates that shouldn't be doing 75 mph, much less 90. Alot of drivers out there too that can't handle a vehicle at 75, much less 90. Just another absurd comment. When Montana didn't have that speed limit of "reasonable and prudent", you'd be surprised of the percentage of people who stayed UNDER 85 mph...
This isn't where I parked my car...
 
luisca
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:09 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
Actually how much faster do you need to go?

90
If it ain't Boeing (or Embraer ;-)) I ain't Going!
 
LOT767-300ER
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:13 pm

Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
Rural interstates are 70 in CA, 75 in AZ, and parts of Texas 80. Actually how much faster do you need to go?

Sure as hell alot more than 65mph in the middle of an Illinois cornfield. 90mph limit would be nice.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
It's been my experience that speed does play a role in most fatal crashes. Common sense tells us that the faster you're traveling results in diminishing your ability to react to an unforeseen situation

I will debate that the education-less American drivers who drive fast play a role in most fatal crashes.
 
itsjustme
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 4:52 pm

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 21):

And finally, we hear from our resident expert on, well, pretty much everything. Ah, to know so much at such a young age...you are truly gifted.  sarcastic 
 
Charles79
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:21 pm

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 19):
Again, why? There's a fair amount of vehicles on today's interstates that shouldn't be doing 75 mph, much less 90. Alot of drivers out there too that can't handle a vehicle at 75, much less 90. Just another absurd comment. When Montana didn't have that speed limit of "reasonable and prudent", you'd be surprised of the percentage of people who stayed UNDER 85 mph...

That's a great point, and people are so reluctant to understand that the only benefit of high speed is decreasing the amount of time it takes to go from point A to point B. Driving faster requires a better built and stable vehicle, substantially better driving skills, more concentration on the road, fewer traffic around you, and better kept roads. I have lived in the Northeast, in Florida, and now the West Coast, and I have not found all of these factors together more than, say, 10% of the time. As someone already pointed out, driving is a privilege, not a right. Furthermore, driving skills get better over time, but you can't enforce gradual speed limits based on how many years you've had your license. The just licensed 18 y/o won't have the experience of the 40 y/o, so you have to put a speed limit to control the more inexperienced driver. Add to that the number of vehicles on the road that shouldn't be doing anything over 70 (older cars, big SUVs, cars with worn tyres), and you have an accident in the waiting.

Again, my biggest fear is that drivers in the US do not have respect for speed. Your reaction times diminish exponentially the faster you go. At 25MPH you can control your car; at 90, the car controls you. Furthermore, our typical driver will insist on fiddling with the radio, talk on the cell phone, or stare at the scenery while driving. Not good signs.

I know that most of the times the people that want higher speed limits think of themselves as good drivers, and maybe they are. But if you have a need for speed then buy a day pass at your local race track, get your hands on a Miata (or an F430 Scuderia, GT3, Elise, or Superleggera Gallardo) and do the insane speeds in a controlled environment, away from me. If you are so keen on killing yourself, don't put the lives of others at risk. Please.

Quoting Luisca (Reply 15):
the highways we should move towards a systems like Germany's

Have you ever been to Germany? Here's why their system works there:
a. They keep their roads fastidiously clear of debris, well paved, and well maintained
b. Drivers spend something like 3000 euros in obtaining their license; in order to pass the test, they have to drive at night as well as daytime, in rain, in snow, at speed in the autobahn, etc. Nothing compared to the joke of driver's ed we have here.
c. The drivers respect the law and the rules, there are hefty penalties for disobedience, and drivers play by the rules
d. There are very strict laws to keep cars in the best shape possible, plus all cars are required to carry a first-aid kit
e. Finally, the public (generally) respects the laws and the effects of speed
When something like this is done here, then we can raise the speed limit. Until then, keep it below 85.

Charles
 
Duff44
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:54 pm

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):

Welcome to my RR list... very well put

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 23):
a. They keep their roads fastidiously clear of debris, well paved, and well maintained
b. Drivers spend something like 3000 euros in obtaining their license; in order to pass the test, they have to drive at night as well as daytime, in rain, in snow, at speed in the autobahn, etc. Nothing compared to the joke of driver's ed we have here.
c. The drivers respect the law and the rules, there are hefty penalties for disobedience, and drivers play by the rules
d. There are very strict laws to keep cars in the best shape possible, plus all cars are required to carry a first-aid kit
e. Finally, the public (generally) respects the laws and the effects of speed

Exactly ZERO of which happens (or will happen) in the USA, so the limits stay.

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
"Speeders beware. Your neighbors might have you on their radar. That's the message police departments across the country are trying to send by loaning residents radar guns and turning them into neighborhood speed watchers."

Where can I sign up? With all the speeding that happens on my street, I'm about ready to set up a cinder-block chicane to slow people down...
I'll rassle ya for a bowl of bacon!
 
Matt D
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 6:11 pm

Some great points issued here. The problem is that there is too much of a disconnect from the bigger picture. I don't think anyone disagrees with the need for safety. The issue I see here is the local police green-lighting local vigilantiism; the people living on one street who complain about speeders probably think little or nothing of speeding down someone ELSES street. This mindset is a very close relative to that of NIMBY'ism. And therein lies the heart of the matter: driver attitudes and education.

Make no mistake about it. Traffic rules and enforcement IS very much about cash flow and revenue enhancement. If it wasn't such a low hanging fruit, there wouldn't be so much emphasis on radar guns, red light cameras, and so forth. The beauty of it is that it is an issue whose real agenda can be beautifully packaged and presented to the public wrapped in "safety" rhetoric: How could you NOT be opposed to speed limits? Are you saying you WANT little kids to be plowed in front of their own houses?

No, of course we don't. All these knee-jerk reactions do is treat the symptoms and not the disease. We hear so much about "road rage" and 'reckless drivers'. Legitimate issues, yes. But instead of raising the bar and employing more stringent rules regarding who gets a licence (which is just about anyone) versus those who don't (corpses maybe), we try and combat these ills with more [mistimed and non-synchronized] traffic lights, lower speed limits, stop signs, concrete barriers, and so forth that only ends up creating MORE of it. Human nature is the weakest link here. Giving licenses and cars to anyone and everyone who asks for them and then throwing as many obstacles and impediments as possible to travel is counterproductive. With very few politicians these days posessing any gonads, no one dares stand up and say: "Hey...there's too many cars on the road. Let's not issue any licenses for a couple of years". Or, there's too many morons out there....let's make them pass IQ and reflex tests if they want a licence."

But you see, the more rules we are given a chance to break, the more money the local governments can make. Nearly everyone can agree on safety. But tax increases are usually political suicide. And that's what it's all about: the end run around the system. It allows Porky Pigg to get ever and ever more rotund and absolves the local leaders of any fiscal responsibility. Want to hire 100 more city employees as a favor to your biggest donor? Want to build a new park or shopping mall? Want to just plain fatten your wallet? Want to make sure no one objects?

Just install a new traffic light and put a speed light camera on it. Better yet, GIVE the 'locals' a camera, a badge, and a ticket book.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MD-Schizoid

[Edited 2007-10-27 11:27:38]
 
Palladium
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:29 pm

I think here is the true of answer..... from my opinion, the speed limits are there for reasons,

1. Most people do not drive a nice car. Most modern cars like BMW, Mercedes Benz, Volvo, Honda, Audi, etc they are capable driving under 80 mph with no problem. But think about people who drive old cars and don't have that many safety and stability control features. Those could be a problem....

2. I think they should make a lane restriction on the highway. All trucks should be using only right lane with 60 to 70 MPH limit. All passenger cars can use the rest of the lane but without using the Truck lane.

3. Yes I do have to agree Lobster, DUI is the major cause for accident. Not speed. In fact people who drive faster tend to concentrate more on the road than people who drive slowly. German autobahn has no speed limit and the accident rate is in fact not difference or less than US highway rate accident.

4
 
lobster
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:36 pm

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
Sure this is just a certain situation, and I'm sure you meant speed limits on Interstates/highways, etc. But one should expect a smart-assed response for such a stupid, generalized statement...

Your right, I should of said highway speeds.  footinmouth 

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
And I've been a cop (and an accident reconstructionist) for over 20 years and I disagree with your sweeping generalization.



Did you bother to read my post? It's not a sweeping generalization. It's my personal opinion from my personal experience. Period.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
Further, doesn't the speed of the vehicle(s) involved play a role in how you treat the victims?

Yes, but that's irrelevant. People will continue to get hurt no matter what the speed limit is. Better driver training is the key to lowering accident rates.

Quoting Itsjustme (Reply 17):
It's been my experience that speed does play a role in most fatal crashes.

You said it right there. PLAYS A ROLE. How many times is it the SOLE factor? I can look at a lot of drunks I've picked up, both living and dead and speed played a role there too. But did a slow speed limit stop them from drinking and driving? NO. Point is, you can say speed plays a role all you want, but if a car is found to be going 3 MPH over the limit, crashes, and someone dies, your still going to say speed caused it.But never mind the fact that the person driving was on her cell phone, changing the radio, whatever. I don't buy all the "statistics" that agencies come out with saying that speed is bad, very bad.

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 19):
Again, why? There's a fair amount of vehicles on today's interstates that shouldn't be doing 75 mph, much less 90. Alot of drivers out there too that can't handle a vehicle at 75, much less 90. Just another absurd comment. When Montana didn't have that speed limit of "reasonable and prudent", you'd be surprised of the percentage of people who stayed UNDER 85 mph...

This is quite a general statement. Any proof to back up your comments beside personal opinion?

You know what? I drive a fullsize truck and I probably wouldn't go over 85. 80 yes, thats where I'd LIKE to set my cruise, but can't because Itsjustme is out there looking to drive up the state caufers.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 23):
people are so reluctant to understand that the only benefit of high speed is decreasing the amount of time it takes to go from point A to point B.

Isn't that the point?  Yeah sure

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 23):
Have you ever been to Germany? Here's why their system works there:
a. They keep their roads fastidiously clear of debris, well paved, and well maintained
b. Drivers spend something like 3000 euros in obtaining their license; in order to pass the test, they have to drive at night as well as daytime, in rain, in snow, at speed in the autobahn, etc. Nothing compared to the joke of driver's ed we have here.
c. The drivers respect the law and the rules, there are hefty penalties for disobedience, and drivers play by the rules
d. There are very strict laws to keep cars in the best shape possible, plus all cars are required to carry a first-aid kit
e. Finally, the public (generally) respects the laws and the effects of speed
When something like this is done here, then we can raise the speed limit. Until then, keep it below 85.

Yes, I have driven on the Autobahn.

And I totally support a MUCH stricter means of getting a drivers license in the US, as well as raising the minimum age limit and putting a maximum age limit as well. Our whole system is in need of some major changes. But blatant, across the board speed laws are ridiculous.

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 24):
Where can I sign up? With all the speeding that happens on my street, I'm about ready to set up a cinder-block chicane to slow people down...

Do you need me to call a whambulance for you?  Yeah sure
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:37 pm

Quoting Palladium (Reply 26):
Most people do not drive a nice car

I think most cars are capable of going 80, but that wouldnt be a good idea in a city like LA, the type of drivers we have...

Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
Actually how much faster do you need to go?

Well, it would be okay at 70. You see, I drive in the Inland Empire, CA most of the time and everyone comfortably movest at 80MPH, so I just move along with them, yet there are drivers who just love to do 90-95, Im not one of them, and I figure those are the ones who get tickets, the erratic drivers. On the other hand, if I were driving in rural areas, I would not venture over 5 miles over the speed limit, since the likeliness of being pulled over by a cap IMO is more because I would be the only one going that much faster than the speed limit as opposed to everyone going 10MPH over the speed limit in the populated area where I live. I dont feel the need to drive that fast anyhow.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Matt D
Posts: 8907
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RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:47 pm

Just goes to show how narrow and one-dimensional some peoples minds are. Sometimes I wish these people actually WOULD get exactly what they ask for. For instance, installing a series of speed 'humps' all up and down a street. Then watch the fun unfold when someone on that block has a house fire or medical emergency. In times such as that, when mere seconds can literally mean the difference between life and death, someones house burns down or someone died from a heart attack. Why?

Because the fire truck and/or ambulance had to almost stop before crossing over each hump. Then get up to maybe 20 mph....then slow down again...and so on. When one looks at the effect of time on one hump, it's no big deal. But when you look at the cumulative effect of a series of them, suddenly the dynamics of emergency response are significantly reduced.

Let one house burn or one person die and you know damn well that those very same people who demanded those speed bumps be installed will be making an even louder ruckus insisting they be removed.

Like I said. You can't have everything. Hence why the REAL issue isn't so much one of going 10 or 15 over the limit or making an illegal U-turn so much as it is peoples mindsets and inability (or unwillingness) to consider all ramifications of what they are asking for.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MD-But the local mechanics who sell shocks and struts will love you
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:02 pm

Quoting Matt D (Reply 29):
Because the fire truck and/or ambulance had to almost stop before crossing over each hump. Then get up to maybe 20 mph....then slow down again...and so on. When one looks at the effect of time on one hump, it's no big deal. But when you look at the cumulative effect of a series of them, suddenly the dynamics of emergency response are significantly reduced.

Funny that you say that. We have a trailer park in my area the is almost half a mile long, with HUGE speed bumps about every 250 feet. I don't care what the call is for, I drive slow, go over everyone as to not break my ambulance. It's really bad when we have a patient in the back trying to get out because a 1 ton chassis doesn't take them that well. All in the name of speed control. The kicker is that the posted limit is 5 MPH. Come on.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting Luisca (Reply 20):
Quoting AirCop (Reply 18):
Actually how much faster do you need to go?

90

Why 90, Luisca? Laws of physics states that the faster you go, the stopping distance increases and lessens your ability to react in emergency situations. I think you just need the need for speed.  sarcastic 

Quoting Duff44 (Reply 24):
Where can I sign up?

What road do you live on so I can avoid it??  Wink With that said, I think it's a bad idea. Bias will show and will get out of hand!
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sat Oct 27, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting Lobster (Reply 27):

And I totally support a MUCH stricter means of getting a drivers license in the US, as well as raising the minimum age limit and putting a maximum age limit as well. Our whole system is in need of some major changes. But blatant, across the board speed laws are ridiculous.

I agree with some of those points. Getting a license in PA at least is a huge joke. Take a multiple choice test that shuts off as soon as you answer 12/15 questions right (signs and other basic information), drive with another licensed driver (who may not know how to drive at all themselves) for six months and then parallel park for your license.

I don't support raising the minimum age because I don't think it will help. I think most accidents in the 16-18 year age range aren't caused necessarily by recklessness, but by incompetence. With the current "training" system, its likely a newly licensed driver has never hydroplaned, never gone into a spin, never tried to slam on their brakes on ice, etc. If a training program that actually did stuff like this was mandated, I think the accident rate would be much lower. And for the accidents that are caused by immaturity, are 18 year olds that much less likely to make those mistakes?

I also agree that older drivers should be retested on the road every so often. A woman in a doctor's office once had macular degeneration (a gray spot in the field of vision) so badly that she could barely sign the release form. She drove herself home.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sun Oct 28, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting GQfluffy (Reply 7):
So, you think you can do 60 mph just fine through a residential zone and stop in time not to hit that kid who's chasing his/her ball that rolled out into the street?

There is speeding, then there is speeding.

Personally, I don't think I have ever been stopped for more than 10 over. Last time I was pulled over it was for 75 in a 70, in daylight so it wasn't even a fishing trip. Personally, I say if it is less than 20 over and there isn't any traffic on open road- go for it.

Residential areas are another matter. Posted in my neighborhood is 30mph. I am afraid to go much faster than that due to all the little kids. Then again, running into a street without looking can be considered Darwin in action.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Charles79
Posts: 1117
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:35 pm

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sun Oct 28, 2007 1:49 am

Quoting Lobster (Reply 27):
But blatant, across the board speed laws are ridiculous.

They may seem ridiculous but, unfortunately, when it comes to controlling machines that have the potential of fatally injuring others we have to take the lowest common denominator. It's like airplanes: there are a ton of safety rules that must be followed, and some seem trivial. However, because human lives are impossible to replace, we trade convenience for safety.

I agree with some of the points you make, as there are other areas that government can spend their attention (and resources) instead of catching speeders. We could invest in better driver training, better and more frequent road maintenance, stricter laws to only allow cars in proper working condition on the road, and generally limit who can drive (and at what age). I also agree with you that in many counties/towns/cities the revenue from traffic tickets is part of the overall city budget and there's pressure on cops to catch speeders. Enforcing traffic laws should be a safety issue, not a revenue raising one. Perhaps one alternative would be punishments that do not involve the city/town/county receiving any money from the offender (like community service, points in your license, or just records affecting your insurance). This would make it more evident that the traffic cop is a safety agent, not a revenue maker.

Back to the real world, though, the speed limits (and all other traffic rules) are there to ensure that traffic flows safely and that you will arrive at your destination in one piece. If we could somehow ensure that every driver had a high IQ, common sense, exceptional reflexes behind the wheel, respect for the law, and is conscious about others, then perhaps we could do without some of the traffic rules we have. Unfortunately that's not the case, or so it seems.

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
I've been a paramedic for over seven years

I forgot to mention thanks for your service!

Charles
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:05 am

Another factor to be considered is what speed a particular vehicle is designed/equipped to operate at. Tractor-trailer units and commercial motor coaches are limited by the ratings of their tires more than the capability of their motors. Most tractor-trailer/coach tires have a maximum rating of 70-75 mph. Simply put, large commercial vehicles (under most circumstances) CANNOT be safely operated at speeds above 70-75 mph.

I agree that licensing requirements are due for major changes. It galls me that to operate a commercial motor coach, I have to have a Class B CDL with air brake endorsements (I'm also grandfathered where the new school bus endorsement is concerned) but the guy that buys a 40' coach with air brakes and gets it retitled as an RV can drive it with a regular DL and little (if any) additional training.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
luv2cattlecall
Posts: 619
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:25 am

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:34 am

Some places (New Jersey comes to mind) also time how long it takes you to get between toll plazas - assuming you have one of the EZ-Pass or similar transponders. If you, for example, got from one toll booth to another that's 10 miles away in 5 minutes, you can expect a Hallmark from your local DOT or whoever would issue it.
.
 
itsjustme
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 6:58 pm

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:16 am

Quoting Lobster (Reply 27):
Did you bother to read my post? It's not a sweeping generalization. It's my personal opinion from my personal experience. Period.

Yes, I did read your post. I don't make it a habit to reply to posts without reading them and I stand by what I said. I respect your profession but, quite frankly, you don't have the training, knowledge, or experience to make the generalization that "alcohol was by far the #1 contributing factor. I've never been to an accident where speed was the ONLY factor involved". Treating the injured at a crash scene does not qualify you to determine what the true cause of the crash was. Yes, I have zero tolerance for those who drink and drive but just because they've done so does not automatically put them at fault. I've been to crash scenes that were "alcohol involved" but the one who'd been drinking was driving perfectly normal at the time of the incident and had been hit by a completely sober driver (poetic justice I s'pose). I am not disputing the fact that intoxicated drivers continue to be a major problem on our streets but you're opinion that they are always the #1 contributing factor in crashes is incorrect.

Quoting Lobster (Reply 27):
Yes, but that's irrelevant. People will continue to get hurt no matter what the speed limit is.

Really? So if I am driving in a trailer park and abiding by the 5mph or 10mph posted limit, I stand the same chances of being injured if I crash as if I had been traveling at 50mph? Or if I am driving on the freeway and abiding by the posted 65mph and I see other vehicles 1/4 mile ahead of me swerving around a mattress in my lane, I stand the same chances of crashing and being injured as I do had I been doing 90mph? You don't think that extra 25mph would impact my ability to avoid the obstruction in the roadway? Might I suggest a class in physics? It's quite simple. The faster you're traveling directly effects the amount of time you have to react to unforeseen circumstances.

Quoting Lobster (Reply 27):
You said it right there. PLAYS A ROLE. How many times is it the SOLE factor? I can look at a lot of drunks I've picked up, both living and dead and speed played a role there too. But did a slow speed limit stop them from drinking and driving? NO. Point is, you can say speed plays a role all you want, but if a car is found to be going 3 MPH over the limit, crashes, and someone dies, your still going to say speed caused it.But never mind the fact that the person driving was on her cell phone, changing the radio, whatever. I don't buy all the "statistics" that agencies come out with saying that speed is bad, very bad.

Well, first of all, not all drunk drivers get involved in crashes, just as not everyone who speeds gets in crashes so that's a wash. Also, if someone ia doing a mere 3mph over the posted and crashes, as long as the driving, traffic, and weather conditions were optimal at the time of the crash, speed would not be seen as being a contributing factor. So, again your assumption is incorrect. Please refer to my previous statements concerning your lack of training, knowledge and experience to determine the cause of a crash. As for you not "buying" the statistics that substantiate the fact that excessive speed does in fact translate to vehicle crashes, you are entitled to your opinion, ill informed as it may be.
 
ACDC8
Posts: 7175
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:56 pm

RE: A New Low For Speed Enforcement In America

Sun Oct 28, 2007 5:26 am

Quoting Graphic (Reply 5):
Speed limits are necessary in congested areas,

Sorry, but that post kinda made me chuckle. If the area is congested, you can't really speed in the first place. Not disagreeing with you or picking on you, just one of those things when you read it ....  Wink

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 11):
Oh, well then it's easy, we'll test everyone, and put big green stickers on the cars of those who are good drivers, and red ones on cars of people who tested as bad drivers. Then police can spend all their time focusing on red stickers and ignore the green stickers.

Food for thought....how about training the drivers the right way in the first place and not having mom and pop teach new drivers their interpertation of traffic laws and safe driving? Seems to me that would be a good place to start.

Quoting LOT767-300ER (Reply 21):
I will debate that the education-less American drivers who drive fast play a role in most fatal crashes.

Agreed. And I would like to add education-less Canadian drivers to that as well, thank-you.

We've had this discussion on speeding countless times before, we've all got our views and opinions. My views, and having spent half of my driving life in Canada and the other half in Germany, speed doesn't cause accidents it's stupid driving and recklessness that does and there is a world of difference. If one were to actually believe the North American views towards speeding the Autobahn would be a blood bath when in fact that 85% of the accidents are at speeds of 100km/h or less.
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut

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