Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:11 am

Found this interesting article, which says 3-D enhancements show President Abraham Lincoln in Gettysburg for his famous "Gettysburg Address".

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/honestl...94209990001?ncid=NWS00010000000001

First one looks pretty obvious, showing Lincoln, who was 6'4", in the upper right hand corner:





This one says his face is dead-center in the Photo, but I can't make it out.




It's too bad photography was only at its infancy at that time. What history was missed during that terrible conflict.

You think it's Honest Abe? Or not?

Edited to change topic a little.

[Edited 2007-11-18 18:12:40]
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:28 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
You think it's Honest Abe? Or not?

yeah that looks like him.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:33 am

I'm familiar with at least one photo that purports to show Lincoln giving the Gettysburg address, but the address was so fast Lincoln was in the act of sitting down when the glass plate was exposed.

The photo processes were indeed primitive-glass plates coated with collodion and such-George Eastman didn't invent celluloid film until later on in the century. Optics were not very good either. Photography was in its infancy, being a mere 25 years old as a technology at the time the war started. The first war that was actually photographed was the Crimean war, so I'm told. The long exposure times and methods meant that the photographers had to process their plates inside a specially equipped wagon like Brady cruised around in.

Fact is, it's amazing how much photography was done given the conditions the photographers had to operate under.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ATAIndy
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 11:05 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:35 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 2):
Fact is, it's amazing how much photography was done given the conditions the photographers had to operate under.

A few probably thought that the ability the capture a visual moment forever was worth the work, and they became the first photographers.
Boiler up! - Next flights: IND-MIA, MIA-IND
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:36 am

I'm still hoping to go to Gettysburg in the near future, and, as I get more time in the future, to visit it several times. I really want to learn about it first-hand. I've read quite a bit about it, and it fascinates me to this day. Part of me wishes I could go back in time, and witness the human drama that unfolded there. Not to see the death, really, but to see the incredible struggle that took place on those three historic days.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:40 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
Not to see the death, really, but to see the incredible struggle that took place on those three historic days.

huh? that is exactly what took place in those three days, bloodshed on an unimaginable scale.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:42 am



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 5):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
Not to see the death, really, but to see the incredible struggle that took place on those three historic days.

huh? that is exactly what took place in those three days, bloodshed on an unimaginable scale.

It did, I understand that, but one can only imagine the emotion, the heroics of such battles. It would be pr iceless to know what REALLY happened on Little Round Top; why Longstreet delayed the attack on day 3; why Lee thought, despite having such poor ground on enemy soil, that it was even worth fighting there?
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:46 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 6):
It did, I understand that, but one can only imagine the emotion, the heroics of such battles. It would be pr iceless to know what REALLY happened on Little Round Top; why Longstreet delayed the attack on day 3; why Lee thought, despite having such poor ground on enemy soil, that it was even worth fighting there?

I see.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:29 am



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 2):
Fact is, it's amazing how much photography was done given the conditions the photographers had to operate under.

That is an amazing feat in itself. IIRC, Brady had a handful of assistants and perhaps two or three darkroom equipped wagons in the field simultaneously. Thus not all of the photographs taken were by Brady himself, but would have been taken by a member of his team. Very few people realize that the number of photographs that were taken by Brady far exceed the number that have survived. Many people were greatly disturbed by his work at that time and many of the plate negatives were destroyed after the war. Some were used in greenhouses or other uses while others were simply smashed. Then people began to realize the historical value of the photography and attempted to save the negatives that were left.

Brady's photography and that of other Civil War photographers did a lot to change the popular opinion of wars. For the first time, the general public could see what a bloody, horrible business war really is.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
User avatar
stasisLAX
Posts: 2924
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 9:04 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:29 am

I think that the photos are President Lincoln. After all of these years, these photos still show the horrific toll that the war had taken on Lincoln . The photo of Lincoln seated on the speakers platform almost make him look like one of the battle's dead - it's a haunting photo.

The Battle of Gettysburg was the turning point in the Civil War in most historian's viewpoint. Approximately 8000 Union and Confederate soldiers in total were killed, and approximately 40,000 more casualties took place during the battle from July 1 to July 3, 1863. July 4th was a stalemate day, with both the Union and Confederate leaders waiting for the other side to renew the attack. On July 5, the Confederate forces retreated over the Potomac River, giving the Union the victory - but at a horrible loss of life. The Gettysburg National Cemetery and the Gettysburg National Military Park are truly hallowed ground to most Americans. Lincoln's famous Gettysburg Address was given in the dedication ceremony. Approximately 3500 soldiers from the Battle of Gettysburg are buried there.

In my opinion, Gettysburg Battlefield is one of the saddest historical places in America. The awful chill of violent death and unbelievable suffering still lingers there  tombstone 

edit - typo

[Edited 2007-11-18 19:38:06]
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety!" B.Franklin
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 3:58 am



Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 9):
him look like one of the battle's dead - it's a haunting photo.

the quality just sucks, I doubt the Camera portrays an image differently regarding the solemn mood of the time

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 9):

In all, about 51,000 soldiers died in that battle, the costliest during the Civil war.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:03 am



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 10):
In all, about 51,000 soldiers died in that battle, the costliest during the Civil war.

Incorrect. There were about 53,000 CASUALTIES. That is dead, wounded and missing. All in all, without looking, I think the deaths were about 6,000 for the entire battle, with more, obviously, dying afterwards. That was for the three days, July 1-3, 1863. The bloodiest one-day was at Antietem, where 51,000 casualties were recorded in a 24-hour period.

Believe it or not, half of the 660,000 or so deaths during the Civil War weren't from battle, but from disease. And had their been something like penecillin around then, so many more wouldn't have died from things like gangreen. It was just a horrific war.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:08 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
Incorrect. There were about 53,000 CASUALTIES. That is dead, wounded and missing



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
The bloodiest one-day was at Antietem, where 51,000 casualties were recorded in a 24-hour period.

damn it Wikipedia, damn you. Can you show me your source?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
during the Civil War weren't from battle, but from disease.

no kidding, how about those amputations, oh god nooooooo.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
MaidensGator
Posts: 848
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:02 pm

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:13 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
I'm still hoping to go to Gettysburg in the near future, and, as I get more time in the future, to visit it several times. I really want to learn about it first-hand.

I've visited there many times, mostly when I was young. It is awe inspiring to think what went on in those peaceful farms. They have a display in the museum where a farmer picked up war debris in his fields for several decades and kept it....it's amazing how many cannonballs, guns, bullets, canteens, etc. he found...

Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 10):

In all, about 51,000 soldiers died in that battle, the costliest during the Civil war.

Actually that casualty number includes wounded and missing. About 10,000 are thought to have been killed. Nearby Antietam/Sharpsburg was the site of the deadliest day of the Civil War; over 20,000 killed in one day.
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
LAXspotter
Posts: 3227
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 4:16 pm

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:17 am



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 13):
Actually that casualty number includes wounded and missing. About 10,000 are thought to have been killed. Nearby Antietam/Sharpsburg was the site of the deadliest day of the Civil War; over 20,000 killed in one day.

damn it, all these different parameters.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 13):
in those peaceful farms

isnt that where all battles take place, these quiet serene places, that have seen a lot of blooshed.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
AGC525
Posts: 956
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:50 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:55 am

Thats him in the middle, with his hat removed.

Big version: Width: 402 Height: 268 File size: 21kb
American Aviation: From Kitty Hawk to the Moon in 66 years!
 
Falcon84
Topic Author
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:23 pm



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 12):
damn it Wikipedia, damn you. Can you show me your source?

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/gettysburg/getty4.aspx

There you go. It breaks it down quite nicely for you.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ME AVN FAN
Posts: 12970
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 12:05 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:35 pm

-

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 2):
given the conditions the photographers had to operate under

it was still antique by today's standards a century later. I still remember that those official photographers in the early school years had some black towels in use. And that Cameras had to be "torn out" to become operational. And only as late as the 1960ies came useful colour-photography for private users. Whenever it was possible to have colour-slides much earlier.
-
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:58 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Thread starter):
This one says his face is dead-center in the Photo, but I can't make it out.



Quoting AGC525 (Reply 15):
Thats him in the middle, with his hat removed.

That's right. No stove pipe hat on his head.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
I'm still hoping to go to Gettysburg in the near future, and, as I get more time in the future, to visit it several times.

Heck that's a long weekend trip from CLE. When we lived there I went three times. Once by myself, once with a friend, and once with my family. It's well worth the trip just for the scenery if nothing else. My suggestion would be to take bicycles and tour the park on them. The ring road is like 12 miles long and there are lots of stops along the way. Even if traffic isn't heavy just getting in and out of the car gets to be old. If traffic is heavy as it can be in the summer months, a bicycle is faster than walking, sitting in traffic, or looking for a parking spot. When you start out from the visitor center go south on the ring road. The climb to little round top is much smaller going along cemetery ridge that way. You'll be working backwards in time but the inconvenience is better than having to try and ride up to little round top from the other direction. The visitor center is a half day at least, the ring road could be done in one day but is better if divided into two. Travel time from CLE is about 6-8 hours.

Antietam is not very far south of Gettysburg. You have to remember that the distance you can travel in an hour in a car would have taken those soldiers a couple of days to do on foot. To me it is even more chilling than Gettysburg because the battlefield is so much smaller and the casualties were so much higher. The cornfield between the east and west woods, the sunken road, Burnsides bridge are all pretty confined areas and the loss of life at these sites was pretty horrific. There used to be a park ranger there that was a fantastic orator. He gave an account of the days battle that was just riveting. If you have an extra day or day and a half I would highly suggest visiting this often overlooked battlefield.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 9):
On July 5, the Confederate forces retreated over the Potomac River, giving the Union the victory - but at a horrible loss of life.

The question still remains as to why the Confederates were not pursued. Twice the Union won decisive victories and yet failed to follow up on them. McClellan because he was an idiot and Meade because rather than lead he called a council of war and was out voted.

Quoting StasisLAX (Reply 9):
Gettysburg Battlefield is one of the saddest historical places in America.

I think all of the civil war battlefields are sad. One of the biggest reasons is that the generals on both sides fought with out dated tactics that killed and wounded far more men than was necessary. When you stand on Confederate side of the field of Picketts charge you realize what sort of bravery it took to march across a mile of open field, uphill, that was defended by artillery and thousands of Union troops with guns with rifled barrels that were far more accurate than even 20 years before in the Mexican/American war.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 11):
The bloodiest one-day was at Antietem, where 51,000 casualties were recorded in a 24-hour period.

Not quite, you are mixing your battles. Gettysburg accounted for 53,000 over all casualties over a 3 day period. Antietam accounted for 22,726 casualties in one day. That's killed, wounded, and missing altogether. In terms of actual KIA Gettysburg accounted for 6,600 on both sides over 3 days fighting although some say it was actually a 4 day battle, Antietam accounted for 3,620 KIA in one day of fighting.

Lost in all of the fury surrounding Gettysburg was the fact that Grant forced the surrender of Vicksburg on July 4th thus completing the conquest of the Mississippi River for the Union. It effectively cut the Confederacy in half and sealed their doom. A nerd factoid is that for 100 years after that defeat, the citizens of Vicksburg did not celebrate the 4th of July.

Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 13):
They have a display in the museum where a farmer picked up war debris in his fields for several decades and kept it....

All the farms around the battle field were finding war debris for years afterward. Minnie balls that went into the dirt were eventually pushed up by freeze and thaw. The same is true in France along the battle lines of the first world war. I believe they still recover bones and equipment that were lost in the huge craters artillery shells made back then.


Here's a few pictures from my various trips to Gettysburg and Antietam.

The first is of cemetery ridge looking out over where Picketts charge would have come from.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f294/DrHansZarkov/cemetaryridge.jpg

The second is on the opposite side of that battle field, where the charge would have commenced. Many states have multiple monuments to different regiments from their states.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f294/DrHansZarkov/jumpoffpointpickettscharge.jpg

Third is in the devils den where some close in fighting occurred. Our bikes are in the upper right and that is the friend I went with in the center.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f294/DrHansZarkov/devilsden.jpg

Fourth is on top of little round top. No telling when they have civil war re-enactments but there was one that weekend and it was interesting to see their campgrounds as well as how they were perfectionists at getting the order of battle right. The great thing was they had a lot of detailed insights into soldiers ordinary lives.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f294/DrHansZarkov/littleroundtop.jpg

Fifth and sixth are two views looking down from little round top. Imagine being a Union soldier and seeing Confederates massing for an attack at the bottom. Easy pickings even in that day and age. In the first one you can see the devils den on the right of the picture.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f294/DrHansZarkov/downlittleroundtopsw.jpg

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f294/DrHansZarkov/downlittleroundtopwest.jpg

In the seventh picture we are riding along the road that goes along the top of cemetery ridge from little round top down towards the town of Gettysburg. It is lined with monuments to the various Union regiments from various states. The big one straight ahead is the one to the Pennsylvania regiments.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f294/DrHansZarkov/cemetaryridgeroad.jpg

Finally in the eight picture, this is Burnside Bridge at Antietam. The Union forces would have been attacking from the other side. Behind the camera is a bluff where BG Toombs men held the Union forces at bay for several hours and costing many lives. As anyone who has met me recently can tell, these pictures were taken several years ago. I must have been pretty sick because I am dreadfully thin!  laughing  wink 

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f294/DrHansZarkov/burnsidebridgeAntietam.jpg
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:58 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 13):
Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 4):
I'm still hoping to go to Gettysburg in the near future, and, as I get more time in the future, to visit it several times. I really want to learn about it first-hand.

I've visited there many times, mostly when I was young. It is awe inspiring to think what went on in those peaceful farms. They have a display in the museum where a farmer picked up war debris in his fields for several decades and kept it....it's amazing how many cannonballs, guns, bullets, canteens, etc. he found...

Interesting stuff. There's a case on record of a Virginia farmer a few years ago who dug up the remains of a Civil War musket on his land. As it looked like a useful piece of iron he decided to use it to repair something or other (cattle gate?) and commenced heating it up prior to welding on it, whereupon the still loaded musket discharged and the ball killed him, some 100 years after some nameless footsoldier had loaded it in the heat of battle.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Photo's Of Lincoln At Gettysburg Discovered?

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:38 am

That's why you have to be careful handling any recovered ammo or weapons. Cannon balls have to be examined closely to determine whether they are solid shot or explosive shells.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Aaron747, Bing [Bot], Dreadnought, LittleFokker, PacificBeach88, TheF15Ace and 33 guests