ALexeu
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Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:25 pm

Just wondering what are your opinions about future status of Kosovo?

cheers
 
Klaus
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 4:35 pm

I don't know the situation too closely, but my impression is that it's screwed-up either way.

The declaration of independence is only a matter of days after the election, it appears.

The nationalist idiots on both sides have created the current mess, but neither of them will contribute anything positive to a resolution.

Majorities and minorities in the entire region must find ways to a new peace, and that will require them to look the pain on the other side and the atrocities on their own side in the face. I don't get my hopes up, though.

Regional chauvinism still seems a strong if not even dominant force in the whole area, and it will only lead to more poverty and more tears.
 
ALexeu
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:02 pm

I agree with you.

Technically the best thing would be if the Kosovo remains in Serbia, but the peace is the most important think. So if the majority of Kosovars support independence, i will too (which is the case, de facto).
Kosovo is like a cancer. If Albanians don't agree with Serbs, maybe the best thing would be independence. But that could cause problem for other countries, such as Spain (Catalona and Basquia), Cyprus (T. Cyprus which is independent) etc.
 
Toast
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:29 pm

From where I'm standing, the short-term future of Kosovo looks bleak indeed. It will declare independence sooner or later, possibly even within the next few weeks. Serbia, backed by Russia, will try to do everything it takes to stop them. On the other hand, outright war doesn't seem likely as Serbia has had quite enough of it alrealdy, plus witness how they let go Montenegro with relative ease. Embargoes, political bullying and maybe low-key guerilla warfare is what I'd expect for some years to come.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 2):
But that could cause problem for other countries, such as Spain (Catalona and Basquia), Cyprus (T. Cyprus which is independent) etc.

I don't think so personally. First, Kosovars don't care about their potential effects on other independence movements. And I highly doubt the "if they can, we can too" argument would be decisive in pushing any European region toward declaring independence. Dozens of new countries have been created in the world during the decades of devolution/independence movements in Spain/Belgium/N.Ireland/Kurdistan/Wherever, and none of those events was ever used as an argument to further their cause.
Shit Piss Fuck Cunt Cocksucker Motherfucker Tits
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:11 pm

I think Kosovo is ready to explode into another war !! The Albanians once they get independance will try to form a union with Albania and then try to upset the status quo in the FYROM ''The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia''. In turn the hot heads in FYROM will try to claim land in Greece and it all will become rather nasty and confrontational. Thats why Greece is so against any country calling itself ''Macedonia'' when there are two Macdonia's. One in Greece and one in the Former Yugoslavia. The international community need to regognise these issues before referring to places as ''Macedonia''.

The Balkan issues/problems are far from over. My only comfort is that Serbia is now in a different political Era and I dont think the stomach for another war is there. Greece is NATO and EU and is guranteed its borders and assistance from its allies. Albania / Kosovo can be controlled if it gets out of hand . I also see Bosnia splitting up again into a Muslim part and a Republika Srbska which will annex itself to Serbia.

Lets look at this post one year from now and see if any of my predictions are right !!!!

The other option is to split Kosovo into Serbian and Albanian parts !!! The other is that the EU will offer Serbia entry talks as a carrott to give up Kosovo!!
 
FlyDeltaJets87
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:18 pm



I couldn't resist, even if I don't have an opinion one way or the other about the area.  wink 
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:25 pm



Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 5):
I couldn't resist, even if I don't have an opinion one way or the other about the area.

Haha I have seen that video , its brilliant , at least you can laugh when there is all this crap going on !!!
 
Kunoichi
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:31 pm

My dad came home in July after spending half a year there.

He's now been ordered to go there again in August 2008, for 6 months. I'm finding it very hard to stay objective - but at the same time, I'm grateful that he's not being shipped off to Iraq or Afghanistan as he really doesn't have a say in whether he wants to go or not (unless he wants to lose his job, he can't say no). We're having a shitload of briefing meetings on the status there, and I feel I've got pretty good knowledge about the whole thing - still, it's getting personal, and the only thing on my mind is:

"It's so damn stupid".  Sad

Sorry. I was just told today and this topic jumped at me.
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:46 pm



Quoting Kunoichi (Reply 7):
He's now been ordered to go there again in August 2008, for 6 months

Well the crunch time will come when Kosovo declares self proclaimed Independence without an agreement in December !! We will know within weeks if the sh@t is going to hit the fan .

Quoting Kunoichi (Reply 7):
"It's so damn stupid".

Your right but we cant ignore this as it has the potential to de stabilise the whole Balkan region again .
 
Klaus
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:57 pm

I don't actually expect major hostilities to break out after the declaration of independence - it will probably "just" be a continuation of the debilitating hostility between the various groups living next door to each other, with the finger-pointing, the grudges and separate incidents of violence continuing for at least a generation more.

The EU foreign ministers have just warned against impatience on the part of the kosovars, and I do expect the EU to help in the stabilization, but without the emergence of actual goodwill between the population groups I don't see a good future for the region.
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:58 am

This obviously is an emotive subject and time will tell what happens in future. But my ideas and thoughts are in no way to disrepect Albanian members as they have the right to their views also as long as they are respectful of me and other Anet members.

[Edited 2007-11-19 17:02:01]
 
TIA
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:01 am

Quoting Klaus (Reply 1):
The declaration of independence is only a matter of days after the election, it appears

Election has nothing to do with independence, other than prove that Kosovo is able to hold free and democratic elections. Independence will not be declared before Dec 10 and even then (whenever the actual date might be), it will be with the approval of the US and most of the EU.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 2):
Technically the best thing would be if the Kosovo remains in Serbia, but the peace is the most important think. So if the majority of Kosovars support independence, i will too (which is the case, de facto).
Kosovo is like a cancer. If Albanians don't agree with Serbs, maybe the best thing would be independence. But that could cause problem for other countries, such as Spain (Catalona and Basquia), Cyprus (T. Cyprus which is independent) etc.

Although I don't agree with what you think is best, it's refreshing reading this from you, if you're indeed Serbian.

Quoting Toast (Reply 3):
From where I'm standing, the short-term future of Kosovo looks bleak indeed. It will declare independence sooner or later, possibly even within the next few weeks. Serbia, backed by Russia, will try to do everything it takes to stop them. On the other hand, outright war doesn't seem likely as Serbia has had quite enough of it alrealdy, plus witness how they let go Montenegro with relative ease. Embargoes, political bullying and maybe low-key guerilla warfare is what I'd expect for some years to come.

I think you're spot on. But I'll add that the status quo is worse.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
I think Kosovo is ready to explode into another war !! The Albanians once they get independance will try to form a union with Albania and then try to upset the status quo in the FYROM ''The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia''.

Kosovo will not explode into another war as this would only happen if Serbia attacks after a declaration of independence, and I don't think they will. And there is nothing to suggest that Albania and Kosovo will unite. First of all there is no desire from either side of the border. And I know this for a fact since I interact with Albanians more than anyone else here. Secondly, the international community would never allow it.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
In turn the hot heads in FYROM will try to claim land in Greece and it all will become rather nasty and confrontational. Thats why Greece is so against any country calling itself ''Macedonia'' when there are two Macdonia's. One in Greece and one in the Former Yugoslavia. The international community need to regognise these issues before referring to places as ''Macedonia''.

This is completely off topic. Macedonia's name is in no way or shape related to Kosovo.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
Albania / Kosovo can be controlled if it gets out of hand .

And why would Albania or Kosovo need controlling? Albania has only projected stability in the region (which can't be said about certain other countries) in recent years. Trust me, if Albania wanted to mess up the fragile stability in the region for its advantage, it could easily do so.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
The other option is to split Kosovo into Serbian and Albanian parts !!! The other is that the EU will offer Serbia entry talks as a carrott to give up Kosovo!!

That's the worst solution ever. I'm sure you know there is a significant Albanian populated area in the south of Serbia near the border with Kosovo. By your reasoning this area should be allowed to become independent with Kosovo then. This exchange of territories, which is exactly what you're describing, is very risky.

Quoting Kunoichi (Reply 7):
He's now been ordered to go there again in August 2008, for 6 months.

He's your dad and obviously you'll be worried, but I don't think it's a big deal. I don't think violence will erupt in Kosovo and UNMIK/KFOR forces are quite safe.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
I don't actually expect major hostilities to break out after the declaration of independence - it will probably "just" be a continuation of the debilitating hostility between the various groups living next door to each other, with the finger-pointing, the grudges and separate incidents of violence continuing for at least a generation more.

Most likely yes, but I really think that the leaders of the Serbian community can do a lot to help speed the integration of their people in Kosovo. Unfortunately when you call for the boycott of elections, which are supported by the UN, you're not doing anyone a favor.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 9):
The EU foreign ministers have just warned against impatience on the part of the kosovars

No one will declare independence without silent approval from the US and most of the EU.

[Edited 2007-11-19 18:04:58]
 
Klaus
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:08 am



Quoting TIA (Reply 11):
Most likely yes, but I really think that the leaders of the Serbian community can do a lot to help speed the integration of their people in Kosovo. Unfortunately when you call for the boycott of elections, which are supported by the UN, you're not doing anyone a favor.

Certainly not - the question is whether there will be a competition for the most chauvinistic rethoric from either side or one for the clearest sanity... I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm open to be convinced otherwise.
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:05 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
the question is whether there will be a competition for the most chauvinistic rethoric from either side or one for the clearest sanity... I'm not getting my hopes up, but I'm open to be convinced otherwise.

Neither am I and I still stand by my post . We will wait 12 months and see what really happens.

Quoting TIA (Reply 11):
And there is nothing to suggest that Albania and Kosovo will unite

Thats brilliant news indeed if true.

Quoting TIA (Reply 11):
This is completely off topic. Macedonia's name is in no way or shape related to Kosovo

Its part of the wider Balkan issue on territorial claims . Just do a search and see the links . By the way nice to see a level headed post from you .
 
ALexeu
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:11 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Its part of the wider Balkan issue on territorial claims . Just do a search and see the links . By the way nice to see a level headed post from you .

Macedonia has name problems, but those problems have nothing to do with Kosovo issue. Greek Macedonia is a Greek periphery (their administrative division). Greek ethnic borders are ''clean'' and apart from the name of Macedonia they don't have any border disputes (with F.Y.R. Macedonia).
There is a large Albanian population living in western Macedonia, and that is what is the issue in Macedonia.

Quoting TIA (Reply 11):
Election has nothing to do with independence, other than prove that Kosovo is able to hold free and democratic elections. Independence will not be declared before Dec 10 and even then (whenever the actual date might be), it will be with the approval of the US and most of the EU.

Hashim Tachi won the elections. He promised independence to Kosovo.

Serbian gov thinks that the best status for Kosovo is total autonomy (such as Hong Kong to China).

Quoting OA260 (Reply 13):
Thats brilliant news indeed if true.

Unless the politics change, altough i think that Kosovo will never become part of Albania, and that Albanians wouldn't like it. They are same religion and they speak the same language but they are still different. You can't unite Germany and Austria, or New Zealand and UK...

Quoting TIA (Reply 11):
Kosovo will not explode into another war

I agree with you. There will maybe be protest by Serbian Kosovars (they live in northern Kosovo, and in Serbian ''enclaves'' around Kosovo.

Quoting TIA (Reply 11):
it's refreshing reading this from you, if you're indeed Serbian

Yes, i am a Serbian, but i always look forward to brighter and peacful future  bigthumbsup 

Cheers
 
Kunoichi
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:46 pm



Quoting TIA (Reply 11):
He's your dad and obviously you'll be worried, but I don't think it's a big deal. I don't think violence will erupt in Kosovo and UNMIK/KFOR forces are quite safe.

I know - there were absolutely no issues when he went there, back in febuary, and it's not so much him, getting hurt I'm worried about as much it's the fact that he'll just be gone for half a year and won't really be home for more than a week in total (if we're lucky) during that time. I can live without my dad just fine (I'm 21 and moving out), but he's my mother's husband after all, and I can't help "hating" Kosovo a little for taking him away from her. Especially with issues as trivial as the ones they have there (yes, I think it's trivial. I really do think the entire thing is stupid and they're just idiotic and stubborn). I don't get why people such as my dad has to get dragged into it, as selfish as it sounds...

Even if I do respect him and everyone else out there and in other conflict areas a great deal for going, it's still not nice when it gets personal.
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:57 pm



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 14):
Macedonia has name problems, but those problems have nothing to do with Kosovo issue. Greek Macedonia is a Greek periphery (their administrative division). Greek ethnic borders are ''clean'' and apart from the name of Macedonia they don't have any border disputes (with F.Y.R. Macedonia).

I was making the link that extremist ethnic Albanians that have in the past brought up the issue of a greater Albania with maps that claim parts of FYROM , Greece and Serbia !!

See here ::::Taken from strange maps!!

The Albanians are descendants of the Illyrians, an ancient Balkan people who preceded the Slavic populations surrounding their native territories. They presently have an independent nation - Albania, in their own language ‘Shqipëtar’, meaning ‘Land of the Eagles’ - but are also the majority in Kosovo, nominally still a part of Serbia but de facto a semi-independent state under UN tutelage. There are other significant Albanian populations in Montenegro, Serbia proper, Macedonia and Greece. This map shows the maximum extent of Albanian territorial ambitions - ‘Greater Albania’.

 
TIA
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:52 pm

Can you please enlighten me regarding the purpose of putting that map up? Should I go and look for similar maps of Greek territorial claims and extremist groups? They are very easy to come by. And unfortunately all these Greek territorial claims don't even come from fringe groups all the time, but also from official sources.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:37 pm



Quoting Toast (Reply 3):
On the other hand, outright war doesn't seem likely as Serbia has had quite enough of it alrealdy, plus witness how they let go Montenegro with relative ease. Embargoes, political bullying and maybe low-key guerilla warfare is what I'd expect for some years to come.

I sincerely doubt Tadic will declare war to Kosovo, or endorse whatever group may engage in hostile actions in Kosovo.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 14):
Serbian gov thinks that the best status for Kosovo is total autonomy (such as Hong Kong to China).

I actually agree with that. Kosovo apparently became autonomous in 74, but then Milosevic took that autonomy away from them in 89. So in a way, the one who's to blame for starting this mess in the first place, was Milosevic. IMO autonomy is probably the better compromise for both, but I doubt it will be possible for both to maintain their union. Kosovo may seceed, but I'm confident that Tadic, who is a member of Djindjic's Democratic Party and stands for the opening of Serbia to Europe and full implementation of democracy and peace in Serbia, won't let this become a military conflict.

And if Kosovo does want independence, they should at least have the people vote on that in a Referendum, just as Montenegro did. If the people then vote for independence, then the democratic process will legitimise the decision of Kosovo to seceed, and maybe Serbia could become more willing to talk on the subject.
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:53 pm



Quoting TIA" class=quote target=_blank>TIA (Reply 17):
Can you please enlighten me regarding the purpose of putting that map up?

If we really want to close the real stroy I could always copy and paste replies from Kosovo Albanian members on a political web forum which their views are alot different than you claim your collegues intentions are.

Actually here goes :::

Quote 1

''We can get back some of our territories not by war but by politics. Did you know that the growth of the Albanian population in Macedonia(Skopje) is much greater than the growth of the Slav’s population. In 15 years 45 to 50% of Macedonia’s population will be Albanians. If our population forms only 1 party, we will win the elections and gain power. Then Macedonia’s Albanian Government should make a referendum in order to make Macedonia a part of Albania. We would win the referendum due to the fact that Albanians will be the majority of the population.''

Quote 2

''albania is independent…kosova will be soon…macedonia will one day be majority albanian and run by albanians…..thats three majority albanian states in the balkans….the U.S. is helping albaians out quite a bit…for their interests not just albanians, but what the hell, we’ll take the help. america doesnt want a slavic country to be dominate in the balkans cause that means russia will have its way in the balkans. research well and you will know what im talking about, (u.s. had war in kosova and macedonia planned out with albanians) the U.S. wants albanians to dominate in the balkans, the u.s. is setting up shop in albanian areas in the balkans for the rough times ahead…research research research… u will see what im talking about. now the world will see more war for the dwindling oil supply, but soon after countries will go to war for the water supplies, pick your allys, pick your enemys… im just so happy the U.S. supports albanians. by the way…what will these 3 majority albanian states do??? will they just be independent…or will the combine, to make 1 strong country with a stronger military and economy??? hmm???? i wonder? i also wonder if ppl in western governments already have something planned out??? dont be stupid, the fate of these countries were already planned before yugoslavia broke up. a greater albania is already in the works, its just that most people are so blind they cant see whats happening when its right in front of them. so…LONG LIVE THE UNITED ALBANIA''


If your interested TIA I can provide you with the website but I actually am confident you know most of the Albanian forums out there if you are active in your countries political and aspirational affairs.
 
TIA
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:56 pm

I really don't need to look at what people write in an online forum to know what the truth is. As I said, do you want me to point out to you the claims of *some* Greek people? And they don't come from a nobody behind a computer screen.

Here is a comment from one of your enlightened clergymen (and please don't play the religion card with me, I'm Orthodox myself):
....Greek clergyman Anthimos, the hardliner Metropolitan Bishop of Thessaloniki, who said that parts of Macedonia belonged to Greece and "should be returned".
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setime...etimes/newsbriefs/2007/11/09/nb-10

Or do you want to talk about November 17 instead? How about Revolutionary Struggle which attacked the US embassy in Athens?

I can do this all day, because there is plenty of examples out there, and comments coming from a powerful clergyman or an attack on the a foreign embassy are a lot more dangerous to me than someone who runs his mouth on a forum.

However, I won't go up and down saying that Greece will annex part of Macedonia because I know that regardless of what *some* people might want to do, the vast *majority* won't support them. Hopefully, in due time you'll come to the same conclusion with regard to Albanians. Until then, I would recommend that you don't lose any sleep over Greater Albania, because it will never materialize.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
And if Kosovo does want independence, they should at least have the people vote on that in a Referendum, just as Montenegro did. If the people then vote for independence, then the democratic process will legitimise the decision of Kosovo to seceed, and maybe Serbia could become more willing to talk on the subject.

In a referendum, independence would win by something like 90% of the vote. That's why I think it's pointless. In fact, a referendum is being supported by a pro-independence organization in Kosovo exactly because it's certain that they would win.
 
ALexeu
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:57 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 18):
I actually agree with that. Kosovo apparently became autonomous in 74, but then Milosevic took that autonomy away from them in 89. So in a way, the one who's to blame for starting this mess in the first place, was Milosevic. IMO autonomy is probably the better compromise for both, but I doubt it will be possible for both to maintain their union. Kosovo may seceed, but I'm confident that Tadic, who is a member of Djindjic's Democratic Party and stands for the opening of Serbia to Europe and full implementation of democracy and peace in Serbia, won't let this become a military conflict.

Serbs repeated same mistakes in last few centuries...innocent people suffered most, unfortunately. Even tough most of my friends support Kosovo to remain in Serbia, all of them know that there is no future for Serbs in Kosovo, or at least not in this decade. So, there is no reason for Kosovo to remain in Serbia. Democratic independent Kosovo is probably the best thing, altough i am not sure that this is possible in ex Yugoslavia. Independent Kosovo will also help Serbia to get closer to EU.
I only feel sorry for those Serbian Kosovars who live there and/or had to emmigrate from there. That's the reason that i am not 100% for independence.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 19):
''albania is independent…kosova will be soon…macedonia will one day be majority albanian and run by albanians….

that could happen...don't forget issues in Skopje. Serbian tourist buses didn't go via Macedonia at the beggining of this decade because of fear of Albanian terrorist (they shot one bus).

But, non of these have a lot to do with Albania. Most of Kosovo/Macedonia, Albanians were living there for generations.

BTW, i hope to visit Albania as a tourist one day. I planed to visit Saranda (Ionnian sea resort) this summer, but i didn't.
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:10 pm



Quoting TIA (Reply 20):
Until then, I would recommend that you don't lose any sleep over Greater Albania, because it will never materialize.

The best solution for Kosovo is autonomy with a view to EU membership with Serbia . This is the only stable solution. If Kosovo get full Independence then there will be a whole new can of worms opened. If Kosovo was going to get Independence and get on with their lives and work towards bringing up their economy and educating their people then I may support it . The fact is if and when they get Independence they will still need EU troops and they will probably start fighting between themselves again. Its all about power struggle in Kosovo and I wonder how long before Kosovo Albanian politians start in fighting also.

Wouldn't it be nice to see a pro European Kosovo with equal rights for all and freedom for all and protection for all places of worship . The only thing is I dont think it will happen in our lifetime but I would sincerly love to be proved wrong .

TIME WILL TELL
 
TIA
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:12 pm



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 21):
BTW, i hope to visit Albania as a tourist one day. I planed to visit Saranda (Ionnian sea resort) this summer, but i didn't.

You should. How were you planning on getting there? Obviously the easist way for you to get to Albania would be by flying JU BEG-TIA, but the drive to Saranda is quite long (~6hrs). Of course, an easier way would be to fly to Corfu and then hop on the short ferry ride from there. Or you could book a cruise that goes through Saranda.
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:23 pm



Quoting TIA (Reply 20):
Here is a comment from one of your enlightened clergymen (and please don't play the religion card with me, I'm Orthodox myself):
....Greek clergyman Anthimos, the hardliner Metropolitan Bishop of Thessaloniki, who said that parts of Macedonia belonged to Greece and "should be returned".
http://www.setimes.com/cocoon/setime...nb-10

Response from the Greek government totally rejected this. And you quote ''please dont play the religion card with me , im Orthodox '' is very mis guided by yourself!!! Good for you that you are Orthodox !!! Im Catholic ............
 
TIA
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:27 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
If Kosovo was going to get Independence and get on with their lives and work towards bringing up their economy and educating their people then I may support it .

No you wouldn't. The status quo is exactly the reason why they can't get on with their daily lives and that's exactly what independence would give them. The economy is stagnant because of the uncertainty regarding the status and hate to tell it to you but I don't blame them one bit for wanting to be independent after what happened. And what makes you think that their people are not getting educated?

Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
The fact is if and when they get Independence they will still need EU troops and they will probably start fighting between themselves again. Its all about power struggle in Kosovo and I wonder how long before Kosovo Albanian politians start in fighting also.

Fight against themselves? Again? When were Albanians fighting against each other? Please do tell.

And what do you mean by it's all about power struggle? Ah you mean like there is a power struggle between politicians in Serbia, Bulgaria, Italy, the US etc. Sorry, I didn't know that Kosovo was supposed to be a dictatorship where everyone has the same views. How foolish of me.

[Edited 2007-11-20 14:29:16]
 
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LTU932
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:29 pm



Quoting TIA (Reply 20):
In a referendum, independence would win by something like 90% of the vote. That's why I think it's pointless. In fact, a referendum is being supported by a pro-independence organization in Kosovo exactly because it's certain that they would win.

Nevertheless, a democratic vote, with supervision of EU electoral inspectors, can help in a way legitimise their claim. It may seem pointless, but as has been shown in Costa Rica in the wake of the CAFTA election, a democratic vote can sometimes work wonders with certain issues.
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:31 pm

Quoting TIA (Reply 25):
No you wouldn't

Yes I would , I have stated that .

Quoting TIA (Reply 25):
Fight against themselves? Again? When were Albanians fighting against each other?

We will see what really happens . I dont share your optimism.


Also please clear up your allegation of me using the religion card??? I want you to answer that as I take exception to it !!! Please dont make accusations when you dont know the facts.

[Edited 2007-11-20 14:32:14]
 
ALexeu
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:31 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 22):
Wouldn't it be nice to see a pro European Kosovo with equal rights for all and freedom for all and protection for all places of worship . The only thing is I dont think it will happen in our lifetime but I would sincerly love to be proved wrong .

That is probably the best, but in reality it's hard to achieve. Let's take Bosnia's example. They administratively split the country into Serbian part and Bosniak/Croatian, but they are still not living in peace (such as Switzerland), there are still big national issues.
Why nobody cared about Turkish republic of Northern Cyprus? Turkey is the only country that recognizes them, but Cyprus still joined EU, and there are no plans or deadlines to discuss T.R.N.C status.

Quoting TIA" class=quote target=_blank>TIA (Reply 20):
Here is a comment from one of your enlightened clergymen (and please don't play the religion card with me, I'm Orthodox myself):

Are Albanian Orthodox proclaiming themselves as Greek's ? I assume that you are from the southern Albania originally.

Quoting TIA" class=quote target=_blank>TIA (Reply 23):
You should. How were you planning on getting there? Obviously the easist way for you to get to Albania would be by flying JU BEG-TIA, but the drive to Saranda is quite long (~6hrs). Of course, an easier way would be to fly to Corfu and then hop on the short ferry ride from there. Or you could book a cruise that goes through Saranda.

I was in Corfu, and i planed to go to Saranda by speedboat. My friends had some private issues, so i couldn't go. I've heard that they have nice beaches and that it's a cheap place...
It would be interesting to fly to TIA... i love exploring... Few Serbian tourist traveled to Macedonia by bus and then connected to another bus to Albania (but it's a looong journey).
Although, most of Serbs have prejudice about Albania, there is a tour operator, which organized a trip to Tirana (as you said, JU flight), with a 4 night tour in Tirana and northern Albania, and a return from Podgorica.
 
TIA
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:33 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 24):
Response from the Greek government totally rejected this.

And when has the Albanian government, or any leading Albanian politician for that matter, supported the idea of a greater Albania? And what you just wrote perfectly supports what I've been saying all along. Regardless what some people might want, their ideas will never get traction with the majority of the people or any government.
 
ALexeu
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:45 pm

This thread is like a chat room. After i replied, 4 new replies appeared...

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 26):
Nevertheless, a democratic vote, with supervision of EU electoral inspectors, can help in a way legitimise their claim. It may seem pointless, but as has been shown in Costa Rica in the wake of the CAFTA election, a democratic vote can sometimes work wonders with certain issues.

But in this case, Serbs probably wouldn't support it, and it would be unfair (if 95 % of Kentucky support independence of California, would it make it a new independent country?)

Still, there are a lot of countries supporting Serbian Kosovo (e.g. Hungary, Russia, Spain). EU supports negotiations.
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:47 pm

KLA turned Politician and the power struggle::::

Mr Haradinaj is the third senior member of the KLA to have been attacked in recent months.

One was gunned down in the capital Pristina in March, the other in the city of Prizren in May.

Some international officials have suggested that former comrades may have turned on each other in a battle for post-war power.

Kosovo is expected to hold its first democratic elections in October this year.

Sherif Konjufca, an official in the Alliance for the Future of Kosovo, said the party president was suffering from facial wounds and his brother had also been injured.

It is the second time Mr Haradinaj has hit the headlines since he moved into political life.

-----------------------

Note also that these same KLA turned politians have stated at various times that they support a greater Albania!!!
 
TIA
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:52 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 27):
Also please clear up your allegation of me using the religion card??? I want you to answer that as I take exception to it !!! Please dont make accusations when you dont know the facts.

I never said you played the religion card. I was referring to the future when I said don't play the religion card since I was talking about a priest. It's all too common for people to describe this conflict along religious lines. However, I'll congratulate you for not doing so.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 28):
Are Albanian Orthodox proclaiming themselves as Greek's ? I assume that you are from the southern Albania originally.

LOL. Christian Albanians (around 30%) don't proclaim to be Greek, other than those of real Greek origin obviously. My dad's family is from an Orthodox village on the border with Greece while still 100% Albanian, but my mom is from central Albania and she's actually Muslim. I was raised Orthodox though. My family is mixed like that. My mom's brother (my uncle) is also married to an Orthodox, who's actually of Greek origin.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 27):
Quoting TIA (Reply 25):
Fight against themselves? Again? When were Albanians fighting against each other?

We will see what really happens . I dont share your optimism.

You said that they will fight against each other *again*? And I asked you when was that last time that you were referring to. You seemed to know of a specific time in the past that I wasn't aware of.

Anyway, this thread is going no where. We all have our own views and opinions, regardless of how wrong yours are  Smile. So let's just agree to disagree.
 
cy319
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:54 pm

Kosovo is a land with very very rich Serbian history when it comes to churches, sights and culture. It would be an 'assassination' of the Serbian history is Kosovo gets independant.
wanna be travel buddies ,sex buddies .. or both ?
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:00 pm



Quoting TIA (Reply 32):
Anyway, this thread is going no where. We all have our own views and opinions, regardless of how wrong yours are . So let's just agree to disagree.

Well Im glad you have said what you said and your view is your view and mine is mine. The one thing that we can agree on is that whatever happens we wish that there will be peace and stability in the Balkans as it is in everyones interest. After all its the normal people on the street that want to get on with their lives and raise their families in all Balkan countries.

Just for the record I would love to visit FYROM or Macedonia whatever you want to call it. Also I would like to visit Albania.
There is alot of common history between Balkan countries and we need to look to the future.


 Smile MIKU I MIRË NJIHET NË DITË TË VËSHTIRË
 
TIA
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:03 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 31):
Note also that these same KLA turned politians have stated at various times that they support a greater Albania!!!

Do you have any sources that these people have supported greater Albania? Please find me a source of any LEADING Kosovo politician that supports greater Albania.

Are there security issues in Kosovo? Of course there are. I would be lying to you if I said that Kosovo doesn't face some hurdles in the near future. And one of the reasons for this is current situation. If a country comes out of war and with a lot of uncertainty still hanging in the air, things like this are bound to happen. And a lot of the blame doesn't even lie with the Albanians or Serbs, but with the piss poor job that the UN has done.

Can we take this to PM if you want to continue discussing it? Right now, it's the two of us going back and forth.
 
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PA110
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:27 am



Quoting CY319 (Reply 33):
Kosovo is a land with very very rich Serbian history when it comes to churches, sights and culture. It would be an 'assassination' of the Serbian history is Kosovo gets independant.

And it is those very sentiments that keep the Balkans in a state of perpetual turmoil. Although more people seem to be getting sick and tired of the "status quo", there are still those neanderthals who would rather die for nationalist honor than recognize the modern reality of a changing world.

re Kosovo: Albanians have been the overwhelming majority for decades. Accept this, and move on. The sad reality is that once independent, Kosovo will simply become just another impoverished tiny nation with little or no future as an independent entity. Once the nationalist fervor wears off, they will realize that political (and more importantly economic) union with surrounding nations will be their only hope of economic growth.

re Macedonia: The Macedonian government has formally renounced any and all claims to Northern Greece, and has repeatedly stated it has no wish to expand it's borders. Yet, the Greek government throws up a smokescreen regarding the name as a pretense to block any move closer to EU accession. If Macedonia became accepted in EU, Greece would be forced to confront claims of forced migration (the polite form of ethnic cleansing) currently pending at the World Court in the Hague.
It's been swell, but the swelling has gone down.
 
ALexeu
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:01 am

I just heard on news that Tadic and Kostunica are ''not happy'' because Albanian Kosovars rejected to negotiate.

Quoting PA110 (Reply 36):
re Macedonia: The Macedonian government has formally renounced any and all claims to Northern Greece, and has repeatedly stated it has no wish to expand it's borders. Yet, the Greek government throws up a smokescreen regarding the name as a pretense to block any move closer to EU accession. If Macedonia became accepted in EU, Greece would be forced to confront claims of forced migration (the polite form of ethnic cleansing) currently pending at the World Court in the Hague.

Greek and F.Y.R MAcedonian boundary is also it's ethnic boundary. But Greeks are obsessed with their name of Macedonia.
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:31 am



Quoting PA110 (Reply 36):
If Macedonia became accepted in EU, Greece would be forced to confront claims of forced migration (the polite form of ethnic cleansing) currently pending at the World Court in the Hague.

You could say that about lots of nations around the world !!! No country has clean hands in history. Its what people do in the future is what matters.

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 37):
But Greeks are obsessed with their name of Macedonia.

And rightfully so . For the same reasons that your countrymen are obsessed with Kosovo. If you are not then give it up !! FYROM will not be allowed into the EU without the name settlement and guarantee's in EU treaties of borders. If they comply with this then they are welcome into the EU. I'm not so concerned about the name but I'm more concerned about border claims.

If FYROM doesnt have any border claims then they wont be reluctant to sign treaties to back this up will they??
 
ALexeu
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:46 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 38):
I'm not so concerned about the name but I'm more concerned about border claims.

F.Y.R.O. Macedonia is a candidate for EU.
Why are you concerned about border claims with Greece? There were never problems. F.Y.R.O. Macedonia was part of Serbia, and they become administrative state of Yugoslavia after world war one. F.Y.R.O. Macedonia was NEVER part of today's Greece !

Cheers
 
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OA260
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RE: Your Opinions On Kosovo

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:59 am



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 39):
F.Y.R.O. Macedonia is a candidate for EU.
Why are you concerned about border claims with Greece?

I know ALL about FYROM . Once they get into the EU whats to say they will not go back on their intentions?? Can you guarantee that???

They can sign a treaty to allay concerns then there will be no problem!! Its not that hard to sign a document if their intentions are what they say they are . If they want one from Greece also to guarantee that stupid remarks by Greek Priests will never be listened to then Greece must sign it also. Then good neighbourly relations can start. I remind you that Greece has actively supported Balkan countries in EU membership and has also just started a cross border pipeline with Turkey.

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