cornish
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New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:37 am

The new Fiat 500 has been awarded the title of European Car of the Year, beating the Mazda 2 into second place and the Ford Mondeo into third.

The Euro COTY has frequently been awarded to a lot of dross in the past - Peugeot 307, Renault 9, Fiat Brava, Chrysler Horizon - and vaery rarely to "fashionable" cars. Is it a deserving winner ? What do you think ?




I'm expecting to hear the sounds of laughter from our American members when they see this car of course  Wink
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airfoilsguy
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:50 am



Quoting Cornish (Thread starter):
I'm expecting to hear the sounds of laughter from our American members when they see this car of course

That thing is car of the year?!? What do the losers look like??
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Banco
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:54 am



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
That thing is car of the year?!? What do the losers look like??

American.  Wink

Actually, small Fiats have always been fantastic little beasts for city driving, but the quality of them has gone downhill dramatically in recent years. All the reviews suggest that the new 500 is a real return to form.

Having said that, the European COTY is such a bonkers thing that the motoring press, in Britain at least, just laughs at it. They get it appallingly wrong, year after year. The 307 was an unbelievable decision to make, so its credibility is pretty much shot anyway, even if they happen to be right with this one.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:57 am



Quoting Cornish (Thread starter):
Peugeot 307, Renault 9, Fiat Brava,

Fiat Brava and Peugeot 307 are splendid motor-cars  Angry , while the Renault 9 was rather mediocre. I have never driven the or IN the new FIAT 500, but I know the old "rolling coffee mill" and would not see it as something desirable.
-

Quoting Cornish (Thread starter):
they see this car

while it of course is cute, and may, just as the old one, be the solution for millions of people with lack of money and lack of parking space.
 yes 
 
freckles
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:57 am

I've been in one of these, and they are fantastic little cars.

Well deserved of the title. You should of posted "EU members only" though.


Morgan
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:58 am

That's God awful! I'd rather be in a Smart Car or a Mini. That front end already looks like it's hit a wall.
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Banco
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:01 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 3):
Peugeot 307 are splendid motor-cars

Top Gear satisfaction survey: Peugeot 307 ranked 150th out of 152.

An absolute dog.
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MIAspotter
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:06 am



Quoting Cornish (Thread starter):
I'm expecting to hear the sounds of laughter from our American members when they see this car of course

Why? the thing is, most americans do no understand why here in europe we use small cars, fuel prices are high, parking spaces are at premium, congested roads, and we are still using roads and streets built wayyyyyy before the frist american settlers arrived there, we do not need huge fuel guzzler V12 powered pickup trucks to get to work, we want a cheap, reliable, practical car.

I think the Fiat 500 is a very beautiful car, Fiat has done a great job reviving a classic.

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mighluss
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:08 am

The original 500:



:D Big grin Big grin

And the engine wa REALLY a 500cc.!! it inspired the most succesfull car ever in Spain (Seat 600). you can see both types still out in the street.
Miquel.
 
cornish
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:09 am



Quoting Banco (Reply 6):
Top Gear satisfaction survey: Peugeot 307 ranked 150th out of 152.

Not to mention when it was launched it was already inferior to other cars in the class like the Focus, Astra or Golf. and it didn't even have any good hot versions like Peugeot used to be able to make.

Quoting Freckles (Reply 4):
You should of posted "EU members only" though.

Why? Its voted for by journalists across Europe including the likes of Turkey I believe.

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 3):
but I know the old "rolling coffee mill" and would not see it as something desirable.

do you mean one of these?



Voted sexiest car ever by Top Gear magazine - and celebrity owners include racing drivers Michael Schumacher and Jean Alesi, Gordon Murray and Pete Stevens (designers of the McLaren F1), Nick Mason and other noteworthy people who can afford and have far more exotic things  Smile
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Banco
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:20 am



Quoting Cornish (Reply 9):
Not to mention when it was launched it was already inferior to other cars in the class like the Focus, Astra or Golf. and it didn't even have any good hot versions like Peugeot used to be able to make.

Yep. So we have a car that was already inferior to the competition, which then turned out to have been assembled by monkeys, resulting in a passionate hatred for the thing by all those unfortunate enough to have been conned by a self-appointed bunch of so-called experts, often voting for political reasons, amongst whom not one of them was ever likely to have actually bought one.

I wonder the the ECoTY isn't taken seriously.... ?  Wink
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cornish
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:32 am



Quoting Banco (Reply 10):
Yep. So we have a car that was already inferior to the competition, which then turned out to have been assembled by monkeys, resulting in a passionate hatred for the thing by all those unfortunate enough to have been conned by a self-appointed bunch of so-called experts, often voting for political reasons, amongst whom not one of them was ever likely to have actually bought one.

I wonder the the ECoTY isn't taken seriously.... ?

You only have to look at how many times the French and Italians have won it  Wink

But even this time they are voting for a car that is based on the chassis of the existing Fiat Panda (that already won ECoTY) for a car that is the same sort of concept as the Mini (which came nowhere in the past). Incidentally, the Panda beat another Mazda too.


Mind you the current North American Car of the Year is the Saturn Aura, which is basically an Opel/Vauxhall Vectra - a car seen as being nowhere near the class best in Europe and already a good few years old.
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Banco
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:52 am



Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
You only have to look at how many times the French and Italians have won it

What you mean...

Fiat/Alfa/Lancia 12
Renault 6
Peugeot 3
Citroen 3



Ford 5
GM 2
Audi 2
VW 1
Toyota 1
Nissan 1

You'll be telling me next the whole thing is laughably stupid!  Wink
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cornish
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:00 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 12):
You'll be telling me next the whole thing is laughably stupid!

Not at all. I'm sure the Citroen XM and Fiat Tipo were very worthy winners  Wink
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Banco
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:10 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 13):
Not at all. I'm sure the Citroen XM and Fiat Tipo were very worthy winners

Good point. And the Alfa 147 couldn't possibly have been simply a pretty face and comprehensively thumped by the competition in all other areas.  Wink
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OA260
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:13 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 2):
Actually, small Fiats have always been fantastic little beasts for city driving, but the quality of them has gone downhill dramatically in recent years. All the reviews suggest that the new 500 is a real return to form.

I actually like it . I love Fiats. My mate has a new type Fiat Panda which he got in 2004. He has 94,000 miles on the clock and has had no problems with it at all. Just normal maintenance.

How much is the 500 retailing at???
 
cornish
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:15 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 14):
Good point. And the Alfa 147 couldn't possibly have been simply a pretty face and comprehensively thumped by the competition in all other areas

Good point. And the Alfa 156 couldn't possibly have been simply a pretty face and comprehensively thumped by the competition in all other areas  Wink


Mind you, one year they got together, smoked something and voted the Porsche 928 CotY  Wow! How could that happen when it was doubtlessly up against a small Renault or Fiat
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cornish
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:17 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 15):
How much is the 500 retailing at???

In the UK, at a premium to go for the premium small fashion market a la the Mini. In mainland Europe they have budget versions at far lower prices - above that of the Panda though.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:49 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
What do the losers look like??

like THIS :

-

Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 5):
a Smart Car or a Mini.

Smart Cars look awful and the new-500 most certainly is nicer to look at and nicer to drive than a Mini
-

Quoting Cornish (Reply 9):
but I know the old "rolling coffee mill" and would not see it as something desirable.

do you mean one of these?

yes, "rolling coffee mill" was one nickname, "driving rucksack" another one, and "driving espresso-machine" the third one
-
 
freckles
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:55 pm

Quoting Banco (Reply 2):
but the quality of them has gone downhill dramatically in recent years. All the reviews suggest that the new 500 is a real return to form.

I wouldn't agree with that generalistion, the Puntos from 1996-now have all been highly reliable and good little cars, maybe other fiat models weren't.

Quoting Banco (Reply 6):
Top Gear satisfaction survey: Peugeot 307 ranked 150th out of 152.

Shame really, I liked the way that looked. The new 308 is a POS.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 9):
Why? Its voted for by journalists across Europe including the likes of Turkey I believe.

Lets not get political! - I was talking about a.net members from this side of the planet, and not people like LOT767-300ER.
Not the European Union!
Morgan

[Edited 2007-11-20 04:55:43]
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:06 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 15):
How much is the 500 retailing at???

Here
-
----------------------------------------------POP--------LOUNGE----------SPORT
1.2 69 PS-------------------------------16500 ------19500---------------20500
1.4 16V 100 PS-----------------------19500 ------22500---------------23500
1.3 MultiJet 16V 75 PS (DPF) --19500-------22500---------------23500
-
are the prices of www.autoitalia.ch (FIAT CH) in Swiss Francs
-
 
cornish
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:52 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
yes, "rolling coffee mill" was one nickname, "driving rucksack" another one, and "driving espresso-machine" the third one

My favourite was the "clockwork mouse" Big grin

Quoting OA260 (Reply 15):
How much is the 500 retailing at???

cheapest in UK will be £7900 GBP. sport and luxury models from £9300 GBP
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Banco
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:55 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 21):
Quoting OA260 (Reply 15):
How much is the 500 retailing at???

cheapest in UK will be £7900 GBP. sport and luxury models from £9300 GBP

It doesn't look as though Irish prices have yet been released. UK prices are relevant in that one could always be imported to Ireland.
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OA260
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:09 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 22):
UK prices are relevant in that one could always be imported to Ireland.

Yes but its not worth it because Ireland still have this stupid VRT tax at 23% !!! So much for being in the EU
 
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RayChuang
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:16 pm



Quoting Cornish (Thread starter):
I'm expecting to hear the sounds of laughter from our American members when they see this car of course  Wink

Not really. Sales of the Smart ForTwo have been stronger than anticipated and Toyota is supposed to unveil within the next 18 months a small "city car" based on the Aygo platform specifically for the USA market. In fact, I've read that Ford is seriously considering selling the next-generation Ford Ka--which shares the platform with the Fiat for the USA market, too.
 
freckles
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:01 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 23):
Yes but its not worth it because Ireland still have this stupid VRT tax at 23% !!! So much for being in the EU

The VRT tax is atrocious - I know the MD of Citroen N.Ireland, and the discount he could offer us on a C8 was around €7,500 - it was only just cheaper (literally by about €100 - not worth the ferry) than buying one on mainland UK due to the VRT tax.

Horrendous

Morgan
 
Toast
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:39 pm

I don't give a damn about cars in general, but I'll admit I like the looks of this one. Il genio italiano  Smile
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1stfl94
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:44 pm

It's small and Italian, of course it's going to win COTY!!! Look at the evidence, 2004, Fiat Panda, 1995, Fiat Punto, 1984, Fiat Uno
 
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RayChuang
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:56 pm



Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 27):
Look at the evidence, 2004, Fiat Panda, 1995, Fiat Punto, 1984, Fiat Uno

Actually, the current Fiat Panda is a nice little car that has attracted a lot of sales throughout Europe as a low-cost family car.
 
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:13 pm



Quoting RayChuang (Reply 24):
Not really. Sales of the Smart ForTwo have been stronger than anticipated and Toyota is supposed to unveil within the next 18 months a small "city car" based on the Aygo platform specifically for the USA market. In fact, I've read that Ford is seriously considering selling the next-generation Ford Ka--which shares the platform with the Fiat for the USA market, too.

Is the Yaris hatchback sold in the US?
 
NeilYYZ
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:37 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
Smart Cars look awful and the new-500 most certainly is nicer to look at and nicer to drive than a Mini

I would strongly disagree, however, that's just my opinion, there's no sense in us arguing about taste.
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LAXspotter
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:54 pm

So Is that a family car ?  duck 

How small are you side streets in Europe? I need some pictures. I wonder if a car like the Ford Excursion or any monstrous SUV would sell in Europe, I have a feeling the answer would be no considering gas prices are around $6.50/gallon in places like the Netherlands?  scratchchin 
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JJJ
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:03 am



Quoting Banco (Reply 14):
And the Alfa 147 couldn't possibly have been simply a pretty face and comprehensively thumped by the competition in all other areas.

I'm sorry? It singlehandedly propelled Alfa's sales in Europe to levels not seen in ages, and it's holding its value to near-Golf levels.

Granted the petrol engines are utter crap, but the 147 has been a turning point in Alfa's history, not just 'a pretty face' by any means.

And I'm not saying that because I own one, of course Big grin
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:12 am



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 31):
So Is that a family car ? duck
In many cases it was and it will be again.

How small are you side streets in Europe?

Like THIS :

the city centre of Zurich. Of course many people who have the private space and can afford it have second cars to show off, BUT most people in Switzerland have to get around in places with narrow streets, narrower parking spaces, lots of traffic per square meter .... sorry square kilometer. You have to imagine that 80% of the Swiss population lives in areas BELOW 800 meters above sealevel. You have a similar lack of space in most of the more densely populated areas of western Germany, northern Italy, urban France, the Benelux, the London-area etc. --- as you are from India, you of course know even more denselly populated cities, but the density of private cars per square kilometers in Western Europe is unique nevertheless.
 
LAXspotter
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:15 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 33):
as you are from India, you of course know even more denselly populated cities,

no kidding, its pointless to have large cars there.
"Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel" Samuel Johnson
 
Banco
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:33 am



Quoting JJJ (Reply 32):
I'm sorry? It singlehandedly propelled Alfa's sales in Europe to levels not seen in ages, and it's holding its value to near-Golf levels.

Granted the petrol engines are utter crap, but the 147 has been a turning point in Alfa's history, not just 'a pretty face' by any means.

And I'm not saying that because I own one, of course

Ye-es, and it hasn't been a bad car, by any means, especially in more recent years where they've sorted out some of the more obvious problems. But the European Car of the Year at launch? Preposterous!
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RayChuang
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:33 pm



Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 29):
Is the Yaris hatchback sold in the US?

Only the three-door version of the Yaris hatchback is available in the USA. Cute-looking car, though. Toyota does not sell the five-door Yaris hatchback in the USA, because its USA-only Scion division sells the xD, which is essentially the USA version of the Toyota iST (a model that uses the Yaris platform). Now, if we can just talk Toyota into putting in a five-speed automatic on the xD, I'd buy one myself! Big grin
 
JJJ
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:47 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 35):
But the European Car of the Year at launch? Preposterous!

Aren't ECOTYs supposed to be new launches?

There's a fair amount of guessing involved, surely.
 
Alessandro
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RE: New Fiat 500 Is European Car Of The Year

Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:42 pm

Well, ECOTY only include new cars for the year, so Smart and others are yesterdays news.
I think of the Chrysler PT Cruiser when I see this car.
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