AGM100
Topic Author
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:19 pm

 crazy  Now this is way over the top ! Someone please tell me this is not happening to our guys.!
I will vote Democrat for sure if the President does not kill this idea ..hear and now !


http://kdka.com/kdkainvestigators/mi...tary.signing.bonuses.2.571660.html
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
kmh1956
Posts: 2854
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2005 4:08 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:24 pm

That's disgusting. Not being an American, I can't vote over there, but I'd vote Dem anyway.....
'Somebody tell me why I'm on my own if there's a soulmate for everyone' :Natasha Bedingfield
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:26 pm

Good job KDKA (WTAE...why didnt you post this???).

Anywho I agree with basically everyone when I say that the US Military is full of shit. These people were injured (and many killed) to protect what we enjoy daily. Let em keep their money.

ATCT
Trikes are for kids!
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:28 pm

Hello bureaucracy! In all fairness, this has nothing to do with the administration or party in power. I guarantee you it came out of some byzantine audit, and the person who originated it probably doesn't even know why Fox didn't finish his commitment. All the auditor saw was bonus = X, commitment required = y, commitment completed = z, y<>z, so generate a dunning notice for the difference between x and z*(x/y). It usually requires this kind of publicity for someone to take a look at the regs and make what most people would call common sense exceptions.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:37 pm

This is media bull shit. It was probably a paperwork screw up that caused the military to send the letter. Do you really think the military would purposely do such a thing? Wake up people, the media is playing you for fools. There is no way the military would have such a policy, it would be a public relations nightmare.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4280
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:38 pm

Shameful. No other word for it. How about a few less "we support our troops" stickers and a little more meaningful action?

YOWza
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2001 8:03 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:22 pm



Quoting YOWza (Reply 5):
Shameful. No other word for it. How about a few less "we support our troops" stickers and a little more meaningful action?

YOWza

The answer is simple. It's easier to believe in something then to actually do something about it. People buy a bumper sticker for 50c or $1 and think they're supporting the troops.. It's so much more involved to get busy doing something to ACTUALLY support them..
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:25 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
This is media bull shit. It was probably a paperwork screw up that caused the military to send the letter. Do you really think the military would purposely do such a thing? Wake up people, the media is playing you for fools. There is no way the military would have such a policy, it would be a public relations nightmare.

I think this pretty much sums it up. I'll bet the top dogs in the current administration don't even know it's happening.
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:27 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
Do you really think the military would purposely do such a thing? Wake up people, the media is playing you for fools. There is no way the military would have such a policy, it would be a public relations nightmare.

You haven't spent much time dealing with Federal (and Military) rules & regs have you?  Wink Seriously, some of them are mind boggling in their lack of foresight and common sense.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
User avatar
tb727
Posts: 1765
Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:40 pm

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:32 pm



Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 6):

The answer is simple. It's easier to believe in something then to actually do something about it. People buy a bumper sticker for 50c or $1 and think they're supporting the troops.. It's so much more involved to get busy doing something to ACTUALLY support them..

I've had enough of it. I am ready to do some more for our troops, no one else seems to want to. Has anyone ever donated or volunteered for anything they know is 100% legit? I am thinking of donating to the USO but I am still doing research on the most bang for the buck if you will. I have flown 130 troops caskets home this year so far and I want to do something more for the men and women out there. Regardless of what you think about the war, you have to support these men and women because believe me, they may or may not support what they are doing, but they are out there doing it anyways in terrible conditions away from their families.
Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:35 pm

From slightly inside sources.. When a recruit signs frorm "Number eludes me right now" there is a section that states that he must return the bonus if he does not complete X years service, but is exempted if he is unable to complete duty because of excuses listed on "Another form I don't remember". Now, it just happens that "Another form I don't remember" hasn't been updated since 1997 because of the way things work and since in 1997 being blown up in Iraq wasn't on the list it currently doesn't count even though common sense says it should. Bureaucracy being what it is common sense has flown completely out the window because the system is hopelessly behind the real world. Yes, the soldier deserves to keep his money. Yes, the bureaucracy was just following rules... no, common sense has no place in this.

[Edited 2007-11-20 11:36:03]

[Edited 2007-11-20 11:36:32]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Blackbird
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:38 pm

That's crazy. If you get wounded in battle, you should be allowed to keep your bonus regardless.

Andrea Kent
 
AGM100
Topic Author
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:10 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
This is media bull shit. It was probably a paperwork screw up that caused the military to send the letter. Do you really think the military would purposely do such a thing? Wake up people, the media is playing you for fools. There is no way the military would have such a policy, it would be a public relations nightmare.

I think your right , I sure as hell hope so . !
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
adh214
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:07 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:13 pm

I would guess this is a bureaucratic snafu and the Pentagon will very quickly correct this error. The media should have contacted the Pentagon for a statement but probably ran the story before the Pentagon responded.

Anyone that works in a large organization (government or business) knows that errors like these occur all of the time. The test of a good organization are the ones that correct them quickly. The media is constantly on the prowl to sensationalize these things.

The congressman that proposed a bill regarding this is just trying to get reelected.



Andrew

[Edited 2007-11-22 08:15:08]
 
SBBRTech
Posts: 403
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:32 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:52 pm

This can't be for real....after all why would the military embarass themselves for a small pile of cash when they have a gazillion dollar budget?
"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
 
ADXMatt
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:07 pm

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:06 pm

It wasn't just this one guy. The article states that thousands are being asked to repay the money.

"The U.S. Military is demanding that thousands of wounded service personnel give back signing bonuses because they are unable to serve out their commitments."

Granted I do believe what what MDorBust wrote stating that the policies are slow to be amended. I hope that when they are amended that anyone who was stupid enough to repay it gets a refund.

This is not new in our military. There have been hundreds that were discharged for being gay and the government wanted them to repay them for their expensive training. These are men and woman doing exemplemary work, bright young people in highly desireable jobs who were "outed" by fellow servicemen or from the unofficial witch hunts. They wanted to continue serving but were discharged for being gay/lesbian.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:22 am

With the one exception of World War II, the United States has always treated its war vets poorly so why would it be any different now. Wasn't it President Hoover who sent the troops in to break up the demonstration by WWI vets that wanted their war bonuses that the government refused to pay, then the GI Bill is no where as good today as it was for the WWII vets, then medical care for the injured..got a sister in law that was injured in Gulf War I, and it took the government until 2006 to finally get the disability approved.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8557
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:27 am

For the first two posters - what difference would voting Democrat make? Nobody in Congress or either of the major parties gives a flying you know what about veterans' affairs except for a select few who have actually served and/or have personal incentives involved.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:51 am



Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 15):
This is not new in our military. There have been hundreds that were discharged for being gay and the government wanted them to repay them for their expensive training. These are men and woman doing exemplemary work, bright young people in highly desireable jobs who were "outed" by fellow servicemen or from the unofficial witch hunts. They wanted to continue serving but were discharged for being gay/lesbian.

These people knew the penalties for being openly gay/lesbian in the military. They should have to repay the bonus. Just like the people who get a free education from an Academy then claim to be gay so they don't have to do their time. That isn't an oversight, it is a rule in place to keep people from subverting the system.

Being wounded in battle is a pretty clear case of a good reason to be allowed to keep your bonus.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:24 pm



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 17):
For the first two posters - what difference would voting Democrat make? Nobody in Congress or either of the major parties gives a flying you know what about veterans' affairs except for a select few who have actually served and/or have personal incentives involved.

Spot on Aaron . . .

Anyone care to guess what the percentage of veterans in this country (the U.S.) are homeless? It's actually staggering and unconscionable.

Once again, we could keep some of the Trillions of $$$ we send to all the little piss ant countries on this earth right here at home and halp fix this problem . . .

No congressperson gives two shits about a veteran, what they care about is getting re-elected.

Alas, another call for term limits.

Oh, and because the percentage of people in the Capitol Building that have ever served in the military is so low, they've no frame of reference, no ability to empathize.

Pathetic.

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 15):
This is not new in our military. There have been hundreds that were discharged for being gay and the government wanted them to repay them for their expensive training.

Totally irrelevent to the case here.

Being discharged for being gay, getting too fat, failing your physical fitness tests, or just being an all around asshole is one hundred percent different than the case here. When you sign on the dotted line for a bonus, you agree and acknowledge that this $$$ will be reclaimed if you fail to meet your obligation.

In the case of wounded - and subsequently discharged - veterans, it's criminal to recoup the $$$. IF this is in fact the case, and IF this happens, I see the rule being changed in short order.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:12 pm



Quoting AGM100 (Thread starter):
crazy Now this is way over the top ! Someone please tell me this is not happening to our guys.!
I will vote Democrat for sure if the President does not kill this idea ..hear and now !

You can vote for whoever you want... but it won't fix a damn thing. Because both Republican and Democratic politicians have given the shaft to military vets for over 60yrs. Like AirCop pointed out, we have a very poor track record of properly caring for our military veterans.

Supporting programs to help wounded soldiers simply isn't attractive, nor earns you votes. Less than 1% of US citizens are in the military... so supporting these programs doesn't carry much weight with your constituency.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
There is no way the military would have such a policy, it would be a public relations nightmare.

Yes. Yes there is.

The Veterans Affairs Administration is one of the most incompetent and poorly run government agencies. The horror stories of wounded veterans does not end at this story, there are sadly even worse stories. I love the military, but this is one area we have consistently failed, for many years.

Quoting Tb727 (Reply 9):
am thinking of donating to the USO but I am still doing research on the most bang for the buck if you will.

The USO is a great organization to donate too.

I donate to the Fisher House, which cares for wounded soldiers, and their families. A very amazing organization that is highly respected for efficiently using donation money, for going above and beyond when helping soldiers, and truly caring about those they help.

http://www.fisherhouse.org/

I also donate a considerable amount to the Wounded Warriors organization. They are like the Fisher House, but more broad with their support.

http://www.woundedwarriors.org/

All of them are fantastic, non-government, groups that pick up the slack for our government's tremendous failure to care for their wounded soldiers.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
AGM100
Topic Author
Posts: 5077
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:40 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 20):
You can vote for whoever you want... but it won't fix a damn thing.

Guess I was just frustrated that day . Your right it wont make a piss of difference.

We were down at the Veterans hospital on Thursday their were no wounded guys or gals their from Iraqi Freedom. Most of the guys their were Viet Nam era or Korean war era who were in the hospital for of non combat reasons. This is where I see some of the problem with the VA. Should the VA be more focused on treating wounds rcvd in combat of duty and leave health care to the private sector ?

Do our veterans deserve free healthcare for life ? I personally think they do ... but if it is not managed correctly it becomes a bureaucratic swamp. Sadly their are veterans their who may be taking advantage of the system .. we know it happens in all levels of society. Some of the nurses made it pretty clear that some of the guys their were just laying out and basically taking a free ride. This type of drain on the system takes away from the guys who really need it.

Anyway .. here here to all the volunteers at the Tucson VA ! We showed em ! These people are the silent majority .. Democrats , republicans , it does not matter ..selfless.
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:06 pm

I heard on the radio this morning,

www.1069thefox.com

DoD has indicated that the letters asking for reimbursement were sent in error, and they are investigating as to how it happened.





Imagine that.  crazy 
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Wounded Vets.. We Want Our Bonus Back!

Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:29 pm



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 3):
Hello bureaucracy! In all fairness, this has nothing to do with the administration or party in power. I guarantee you it came out of some byzantine audit, and the person who originated it probably doesn't even know why Fox didn't finish his commitment. All the auditor saw was bonus = X, commitment required = y, commitment completed = z, y<>z, so generate a dunning notice for the difference between x and z*(x/y). It usually requires this kind of publicity for someone to take a look at the regs and make what most people would call common sense exceptions.

Dead on accurate. The military bureaucracy is a giant octopus that glides along on paper and functions about as well as you could imagine an octopus sliding on paper would go. Actually it does better, but it's such a huge operation that all we really notice are the screwups.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 20):
You can vote for whoever you want... but it won't fix a damn thing. Because both Republican and Democratic politicians have given the shaft to military vets for over 60yrs.

There is that quote "in times of peace, soldiers and dogs keep off the grass" but to be fair our expectations of a government designed for inefficiency can be a little high.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 20):
The Veterans Affairs Administration is one of the most incompetent and poorly run government agencies. The horror stories of wounded veterans does not end at this story, there are sadly even worse stories. I love the military, but this is one area we have consistently failed, for many years.

Once again, government is not efficient, and we expect it's agencies to be so...and that's the definition of crazy. The people at the VA can do well, they did take care of me when I had need, but we do seem to notice the screwups far more than the majority of the time when they function properly. I'm not saying they're perfect by any means, nor are they even particularly efficient, I just don't think they're completely screwed up and shouldn't be condemned. Alot of veterans work there and work hard. They're underfunded by the same Congress that screws over the soldiers on pay and family housing while building bridges to nowhere and funding Tupac Shakur Culture Centers.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 20):
Quoting Tb727 (Reply 9):
am thinking of donating to the USO but I am still doing research on the most bang for the buck if you will.

The USO is a great organization to donate too.

Seconded.

Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 22):
DoD has indicated that the letters asking for reimbursement were sent in error, and they are investigating as to how it happened.

Figures. No one, but no one, in the military or DOD wants to screw over our wounded veterans. There are some in Congress who probably don't give a shit, but they're in the minority. Plenty that will do it for political reasons if it's glossed over and they can ignore it but then that's the politicians for you.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SQ948 and 4 guests