zak
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IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:08 pm

T-Mobile will start selling the IPhone in its Shops for 999 Euro without Network Locks or requirement for contract.
Apparently, T-Mob and Apple responded quickly to legal action by Vodafone and Debitel in Germany, that threatened them with hefty fines of up to 250.000 Euro Per sold unit.
So there it is, the IPhone without artificial locks hits the Street, although for a rather hefty price.
Customers whom bought the T-Mob IPhone after Nov. 19th are also able to get a Software Update that removes Locks on the Phone.

[Edited 2007-11-21 05:11:36]
10=2
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:13 pm

£715. Ouch.

It's unlocked in France too but I forgot the price.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
QANTAS077
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:33 pm

lol...that's around $1600 AUD, no way in the world am I paying nearly $2000 for a mobile phone if the Australian's price it in that range.
 
wilco737
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:54 pm

Yeah I read that too...
And I couldnt care less about it...

Whats so special about this iphone?! I don't want to have it...

I am happy with my Nokia E65 Big grin

WILCO737 (MD11F)
 airplane 
 
pilotdude09
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:54 pm

The biggest thing is its only 2.5G and Aussie doenst have wireless internet everywhere. Most airports/shopping centres dont have it so its not really much use unless at work with wireless or at a fast food restaraunt imo.

If it was 3G that would be good would allow you to use the overpriced telstra network and have access to Foxtel etc. I have a touch iPod which does basically everything without the phone, its a great great gadget but with the internet side of things there is no where to use it.

I think i'll take the K850i  Smile
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
QANTAS077
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:14 pm

pretty sure Telstra will release it here and it will be 3G for our needs...
 
pilotdude09
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:24 pm



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 5):
pretty sure Telstra will release it here and it will be 3G for our needs...

Would defintley give it an edge!
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
ZRH
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:00 pm

Finally! But it is fare too expensive. I only hope when it comes to Switzerland that Apple will sell it and not phone providers.
 
Tom12
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:06 pm

Apparently a student at one of the Universities in Glasgow has been able to unlock his.


Tom
"Per noctem volamus" - Royal Air Force Bomber Squadron IX
 
Pyrex
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:14 pm

No way, a court actually convicts Apple because of anti-competitive practices? What next, requiring them to provide decent access to iTunes to people withour iPods? Authorizing the use of MacOS software in computers not produced by Apple?

I guess Apple customers are used to getting screwed over so $1,500 for a phone won't sound too much.
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
freckles
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:15 pm



Quoting Tom12 (Reply 8):

Yeah, its not hard, search "unlock iphone" on google - its a simple patch.

Not a long term thing though - using it renders the phone useless under an Apple firmware update.

Morgan
 
mt99
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:18 pm



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 5):
pretty sure Telstra will release it here and it will be 3G for our needs...

It not the operators decision.. but Apple's..
Step into my office, baby
 
QANTAS077
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:49 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 11):
It not the operators decision.. but Apple's..

errr...it'll be a joint decision, if Apple want the item on sale in Australia then they'll have to release it for our advanced NextG mobile network. Australia has one of the most advanced mobile networks in the world, if Apple want to sell the item here they're going too have to deal with Telstra and make it compatible for us.

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,22676711-462,00.html
 
mt99
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:57 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 12):
it'll be a joint decision,

Technically you are right. But the actual manufacturing is Apple. My point was that Apple will not develop a 3G phone for Australia only. Once the 3G is available it will be available world wide. So while Telstra is still part of the decision process on when the Iphone is available for you folk - it is still basically up to Apple to develop it

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 12):
Australia has one of the most advanced mobile networks in the world, if Apple want to sell the item here they're going too have to deal with Telstra and make it compatible for us.

They did not do it for Europe...

I do think that iphone V2.0 will be 3G capable.

[Edited 2007-11-21 14:06:16]
Step into my office, baby
 
TACAA320
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:03 pm



Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 5):
pretty sure Telstra will release it here and it will be 3G for our needs...

In Congo?
 sarcastic 
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
QANTAS077
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:32 pm



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 13):
They did not do it for Europe...

I do think that iphone V2.0 will be 3G capable.

probably need more than 3G because we've moved on from that, ours is now Next G.

Quoting Mt99 (Reply 13):
Once the 3G is available it will be available world wide. So while Telstra is still part of the decision process on when the Iphone is available for you folk - it is still basically up to Apple to develop it

it will need to be 3G or next G for Australia because we don't have any other band operating down here.
 
N231YE
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:41 pm



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 9):
What next, requiring them to provide decent access to iTunes to people withour iPods?

Yes.

Quote:
A year ago, a French court ruled against Sony's requirement that songs sold in its online music store be played only on Sony devices. Apple faces a similar court challenge in France over its iTunes songs, which are tied to the iPod. The iPod's music- and video-playing features are built into the iPhone.

 
mt99
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:52 pm

Quoting QANTAS077 (Reply 15):

probably need more than 3G because we've moved on from that, ours is now Next G.

Isnt "NextG" just a marketing name?

"How is Next G different to Telstra's existing 3G network?

For starters Next G operates on a different frquency to the existing 3G network: Next G operates on the 850mHz range whilst existing 3G services operate on the 2100mHz range. Next G services are also cover more of Australia than any other exitsing 3G platform: Next G services are replacing CDMA services so will work just as well in the country as they do in the city. Most existing 3G networks will only work in metropolitan areas."

http://www.fonezone.com.au/?p=5

I guess its just a 3G-HSDPA network.

[Edited 2007-11-21 15:58:08]

Here is a list of countries that have the same technology..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HSDPA_networks

[Edited 2007-11-21 16:00:29]
Step into my office, baby
 
QANTAS077
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:33 am



Quoting Mt99 (Reply 17):
Isnt "NextG" just a marketing name?

no, its next G and operates on different frequencies etc as you've mentioned, its totally different. 3G is slowly being phased out in favour of Next G.
 
ltbewr
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:39 am

Boy are you guys getting ripped a new rectal orfice! In the USA, IPhones are only about $299-399.
Yes, USA subscribers are restricted to AT&T Wireless, but that is due to a quark in our telecommunications and trade laws. Still I think that the rest of the world has the right idea that you can choose your carrier. Probably your anti-trust and trade laws require that.
 
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RayChuang
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:42 am

I'm holding off buying the iPhone until Apple unveils the second-generation model that includes HSDPA 3G broadband download support, something that would make the iPhone very useful in Europe, Japan, and even the USA (AT&T has started to accelerate HSDPA rollouts in all major metropolitan areas).
 
Klaus
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:50 am



Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 19):
Boy are you guys getting ripped a new rectal orfice! In the USA, IPhones are only about $299-399.

So? The german price under similar conditions is also similar (including VAT etc.). The verdict just forces T-Mobile to offer the iPhone unlocked in addition to the standard coupled contracts (and to unlock those iPhones as well).

There's nothing being taken away from the customer except limitations. If the verdict is upheld by the higher courts, it will merely add more freedom of choice than the one you've got so far.

On the downside, the T-Mobile plans all remain limited to a certain data volume at full speed. Beyond that volume, the connection speed is choked back to dial-up speed. O2 in Britain has apparently just dropped a similar restriction; Time for T-Mobile to follow suit.
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:48 am

What a rip, you can get the N95 for half that.
 
NorthstarBoy
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:22 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 21):
So? The german price under similar conditions is also similar (including VAT etc.). The verdict just forces T-Mobile to offer the iPhone unlocked in addition to the standard coupled contracts (and to unlock those iPhones as well).

There's nothing being taken away from the customer except limitations. If the verdict is upheld by the higher courts, it will merely add more freedom of choice than the one you've got so far.

so if i can get an IPhone for 300 dollars which has the same lack of restrictions as the 1500 dollar model, why would i buy the 1500 dollar phone when i can get the same exact thing for 1/5 of the price? It'd seem to me, from a business sense point of view, you keep the cheaper phones locked so as not to take sales away from the more expensive, unlocked phone.
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
TUNisia
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:00 am

In Europe with no 3G? Only Apple apologists will buy it.

Just wait for the SE W960i  Smile
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zak
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:24 am



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 22):
from a business sense point of view, you keep the cheaper phones locked so as not to take sales away from the more expensive

law in the interest of the common citizen > business interests of t-com/apple
10=2
 
Klaus
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:12 am



Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 22):
so if i can get an IPhone for 300 dollars which has the same lack of restrictions as the 1500 dollar model, why would i buy the 1500 dollar phone when i can get the same exact thing for 1/5 of the price? It'd seem to me, from a business sense point of view, you keep the cheaper phones locked so as not to take sales away from the more expensive, unlocked phone.

As long as you're paying for the carrier's contract there is nothing lost. The higher price is for the phone without that contract, so both the carrier and Apple receive the revenue up front instead of through the contract.

Quoting TUNisia (Reply 23):
In Europe with no 3G? Only Apple apologists will buy it.

Or people whose needs are still met reasonably well with the EDGE connection and who see no major improvement by 3G, especially in view of its much higher battery consumption.

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 24):
What a rip, you can get the N95 for half that.

It's surely on the high side (and we'll have to see if that price will stay) - but the N95 simply doesn't play in the same league.
 
zak
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:16 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
- but the N95 simply doesn't play in the same league.

true, its way ahead of the i-gimmick  Wink
10=2
 
Klaus
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:59 am



Quoting Zak (Reply 27):
true, its way ahead of the i-gimmick

That depends on whether you need more features which you could theoretically use or fewer features but which you will actually use in practice...!
 
zak
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:47 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 28):
That depends on whether you need more features which you could theoretically use or fewer features but which you will actually use in practice...!

isnt that true of about every phone out there. the iphone has no new or better features either, so you are kind of making a moot point, and no, i dont consider the voicemail menu a new feature, just a good implementation of whats already there, its like cd players without shuffle versus one with shuffle, one just has a feature that some people might use, others might totally ignore, but the underlying functionality is identical.
10=2
 
Klaus
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:32 pm



Quoting Zak (Reply 29):
isnt that true of about every phone out there. the iphone has no new or better features either,

Have you actually looked at it yet?
 
VonRichtofen
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:30 pm

Other than a flashy touch screen interface what does the Iphone have that the N95 doesn't?
 
zak
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 30):
Have you actually looked at it yet?

yes, i find the interface to be AWFULLY inefficient.
10=2
 
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ManuCH
Crew
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Fri Nov 23, 2007 9:45 pm



Quoting TUNisia (Reply 23):
In Europe with no 3G? Only Apple apologists will buy it.

I would honestly buy an iPhone, if this were the only problem - I really don't care about 3G. I actually have an N95 right now, and 3G is disabled. It sucks lots (!) of power, and the difference when browsing on such a small unit (the iPhone isn't a full-size laptop either) is negligible IMHO (300 kbit/s vs 3 Mbit/s on a handheld device is barely noticeable). It only makes a difference if you use your mobile as a modem for your laptop - which you can't with the iPhone.

The real issues holding me back from getting one are the following:
- no MMS sending (yes, people I know use MMS a lot)
- no tactile feedback when using the keyboard (this is obvious, but I often use my phone's keyboard without looking)
- not usable as a bluetooth modem (so you still need a separate subscription and modem to surf from your laptop while travelling)
- no custom applications (OK, this will change in Q1/2008)
- no Java (unfortunately I use lots of Java apps - I say unfortunately because it's a clumsy language, but some apps just come in Java, and I have to live with it)
- rate plans too expensive (I currently spend about $40/month on my mobile bill, including subscription fee, all text messages and calls - that would double if I got an iPhone)
- not available in Switzerland yet (I could get one in Germany, but I'm not spending 999 Euro on a phone)

Besides that, it's the most amazing phone ever produced. The usability of the interface is stunning (yes, I've tried the iPod Touch and fell in love with it) and it seems very stable and responsive. This can't be said of my N95 - it has tons of functions, but usability is barely there, it crashes when used heavily, and there are several unresolved bugs.

I'm a big Apple fan, I switched to Macs only (and I would never turn back - I just re-installed Windows on a laptop I sold on ebay, and it was a nightmare), but it's still too early for me to get an iPhone. Maybe sometimes later on...
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
Klaus
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:40 pm



Quoting Zak (Reply 32):
yes, i find the interface to be AWFULLY inefficient.

What's more efficient about trying to click through multiple microscopic menus, buttons and alerts in the hope that it might actually do what you want, instead of just tapping once or twice on the iPhone? Especially in the browser?  eyebrow 

I just checked it out myself today and can only recommend anybody to do the same before dismissing it out of hand. The user interface does indeed behave as in the demo videos (which was to be expected) and is indeed remarkably responsive and logical.

The Safari browser on the iPhone is in a completely different class of its own. Talk about efficient!

I've found, by the way, that the onscreen keyboard is a non-issue at least for me. I could type with it rather rapidly almost without errors even on the first try and even with the smaller version in the iPhone's portrait orientation - even just with one thumb while holding it single-handedly; And I've got large hands. Many physical mini-keyboards are much more difficult to type on by comparison. Apple made the right choice there.

The lack of certain features is the only thing I could imagine missing, but with the release of the binary SDK that will be remedied rather quickly.

By the way: According to the T-Mobile representative I talked to, the volume cap on the data plans (200MB / 1GB / 5GB per month) with subsequent throttling to dial-up speed is supposed to be "worst case" only; As long as there's sufficient capacity on the network, full EDGE speed will remain available even after exceeding the guaranteed volume, just at reduced priority. It might not be all that bad after all. (O2 in Britain has already dropped their similar volume limit as far as I know.)
 
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moo
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:39 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 34):

I've found, by the way, that the onscreen keyboard is a non-issue at least for me. I could type with it rather rapidly almost without errors even on the first try and even with the smaller version in the iPhone's portrait orientation - even just with one thumb while holding it single-handedly; And I've got large hands. Many physical mini-keyboards are much more difficult to type on by comparison. Apple made the right choice there.

I think the bigger problem ManuCH is alluding to is that he can use other phones keyboards without looking at the keyboard, which is possible because of the tactile feedback of having physical buttons - you don't get this on the iPhone so yes, it is a valid problem with a lot of people.

Also, the iPhones screen is unusable if you have gloves on, as it is based on electrostatic sensitivity (the screen detects the electric charge you pass to the screen when you press it with a finger).

Quoting Klaus (Reply 34):
The Safari browser on the iPhone is in a completely different class of its own. Talk about efficient!

Agreed. I bought an iPod Touch middle of October, just before I went away on a trip. I found that I did not need a computer to browse or pick up my email though gmail as the iTouch was fully functional (so long as I was near a convenient wifi hotspot).

Quoting Klaus (Reply 34):
(O2 in Britain has already dropped their similar volume limit as far as I know.)

They replaced their limit with a vague 'if you are inconveniencing other customers, we will deal with you' warning, which is the same as in their recently launched ADSL service.

Speaking to some friends who work for O2, this warning is actually 100% accurate and they will only take action if you are causing other customers to have a consistently degraded service.

BTW, I bought an iPhone the first day it was released in the UK - I haven't got any complaints thus far, and my decision was made after 2 months of investigation which included using an N95 for 3 weeks - 3G sucks in my area and the limited battery life made me certain I can live with EDGE for the time being, and there were no other features of the N95 that really floated my boat.
 
Klaus
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:25 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 35):
I think the bigger problem ManuCH is alluding to is that he can use other phones keyboards without looking at the keyboard, which is possible because of the tactile feedback of having physical buttons - you don't get this on the iPhone so yes, it is a valid problem with a lot of people.

That's the question... typing without looking is feasible on a normal dialing keypad, but I doubt that many of the existing QWERTZ/Y mini-keyboards can really be used that way. You'd have to look at those as well, so as far as I can see that advantage doesn't really exist when you're comparing different smart phones.

Quoting Moo (Reply 35):
Also, the iPhones screen is unusable if you have gloves on, as it is based on electrostatic sensitivity (the screen detects the electric charge you pass to the screen when you press it with a finger).

True, but gloves will only work with simple dialing keypads again. Mechanical QWERTZ/Y keyboards won't fare much better there either, but those come with various disadvantages.

Either way it's always a design compromise, and with the iPhone (and the iPod touch) the result is pretty decent.

Quoting Moo (Reply 35):
They replaced their limit with a vague 'if you are inconveniencing other customers, we will deal with you' warning, which is the same as in their recently launched ADSL service.

Ah, okay. We'll have to see how it's handled in practice.
 
Tom12
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RE: IPhone To Be Sold In Germany With NO Lock

Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:22 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 36):
That's the question... typing without looking is feasible on a normal dialing keypad, but I doubt that many of the existing QWERTZ/Y mini-keyboards can really be used that way

I can now type on my QWERTY keyboard (On my phone) without looking but it was incredible akward to start with. Also, it is no where near as easy as it is with the Dialing pad.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 36):
True, but gloves will only work with simple dialing keypads again

Yeah, using the QWERTY on my phone is hard with gloves.
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