cumulus
Posts: 1003
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Macs And Anti Virus.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:34 pm

Got a iMac and a MacBook. Just installed Vista under Bootcamp (so I can play Fsim, v.sad!).

However, knowing that OSX Leapord is fundamentally Virus proof, do I need install anti virus for the Windows "side".

Been using Vista for a few weeks now, and just installed Panda on a 30 day trial. After a full scan, there were no viruses, tojans, adware - nowt.

What's the story?
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
cumulus
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:50 pm

I lie!!! Total of 18 infected files!!! So it DOES need anti-virus!!!
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
Arrow
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:57 pm

You sleep with dogs, you get fleas.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:00 pm

'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
bagpiper
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:01 pm



Quoting Cumulus (Thread starter):
OSX Leapord is fundamentally Virus proof

That always makes me laugh. I've written viruses for OSX and Linux (don't worry - they stayed on my home network). Sure, they don't spread like a trojan - but they mess up the computer quite badly.
 
Klaus
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:06 pm



Quoting Cumulus (Thread starter):
However, knowing that OSX Leapord is fundamentally Virus proof

No, it's not. It's quite probably not as vulnerable as Windows plus there are zero practical threats for it in the wild at this point, but it is also quite possible that some day you will in fact need additional software. Let's hope that that day is still far off.

(Running and authenticating fishy software is still always a bad idea!)

Quoting Cumulus (Thread starter):
do I need install anti virus for the Windows "side".

Yes! Definitely!

Even when you're running Windows in a virtual environment it is exactly as vulnerable as it would be on any other PC, and the same of course applies to Windows under Boot Camp. Whatever you need on a Windows-limited PC you'll also need under Windows on a Mac under comparable circumstances.

It is relatively unlikely that a Windows infection could affect the Mac side (unless you've made the Mac file system accessible for Windows!), but the Windows installation is as much in danger as it would always be.

Precise compatibility goes both ways, unfortunately.

Okay, I now leave the stage for the Windows experts.
 
cumulus
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:07 pm



Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 4):
I've written viruses for OSX and Linux (don't worry - they stayed on my home network).

Why?
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
bagpiper
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:13 pm



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 6):
Why?

Thats a great way to learn about Operating Systems, programming, etc. I did not write them to be a virus - yet they do the same thing as one. I've written stuff that accesses the basic windows API in a lot of languages. Stuff that can run completely undetected by most programs, yet still edit the program it is attached to.

Again, I didn't write it to brag to my friends "I wrote a virus" - it was missing some things that would make it a true virus (although it would take all of 15 minutes to implement). I did it for knowledge of the OS, the language (C#, C++, C, and VBasic), and the skills that come from doing such things.

Hope that makes sense  Wink
 
zTagged
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:16 pm



Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 7):
Thats a great way to learn about Operating Systems, programming, etc. I did not write them to be a virus - yet they do the same thing as one. I've written stuff that accesses the basic windows API in a lot of languages. Stuff that can run completely undetected by most programs, yet still edit the program it is attached to.

Again, I didn't write it to brag to my friends "I wrote a virus" - it was missing some things that would make it a true virus (although it would take all of 15 minutes to implement). I did it for knowledge of the OS, the language (C#, C++, C, and VBasic), and the skills that come from doing such things.

Hope that makes sense Wink

Why can't more coders that do write viruses be more like you?  crazy 
Something awful.
 
StarAC17
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:26 am



Quoting Cumulus (Thread starter):
However, knowing that OSX Leapord is fundamentally Virus proof, do I need install anti virus for the Windows "side".

Look its not Virus proof!! Its that hackers have no incentive to mess up OSX systems so stop listening to Mac advertising when they say this. Its a lot more fun for them to mess up airline or business networks running on Windows for a few hours and cause havoc than it is for them to mess with Klaus and all the casual computer users.

However this is off topic but it has to be said Apple has the market when it comes to the Mobile music players and Ipods in my opinion are not as superior of a product as their competitors such as the Creative Zen which I have dropped god knows how many times and still works. Where as some of my family and friends have gone through a lot of Ipods due to both the screen and the battery giving trouble.

Also the Iphone hasn't hurt Crackberry sales which I am also happy about.
Engineers Rule The World!!!!!
 
cumulus
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:24 am



Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 9):
Look its not Virus proof!!

I said "fundamentally", for the reasons you pointed out.
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
Boeing74741R
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:45 pm



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 10):
I said "fundamentally", for the reasons you pointed out.

Macs are 'virus-free' from any viruses that are designed to infect Windows systems. What Apple don't tell you is that there are viruses designed to harm Macs in the same way as Windows viruses harm Windows PCs. Anyone who is under the impression that Macs can't get viruses listen to Steve Jobs too much, because the threat is there for Macs, but isn't as well-known and well exploited as Windows.

If you like I'm sure Bagpiper can give you a demonstration of a Mac virus!  stirthepot   devil 
 
Klaus
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:25 pm



Quoting Boeing74741R (Reply 11):
Macs are 'virus-free' from any viruses that are designed to infect Windows systems. What Apple don't tell you is that there are viruses designed to harm Macs in the same way as Windows viruses harm Windows PCs.

There are currently no active viruses for MacOS X as far as I'm aware, compared to housands for Windows. There are a few social-engineering trojans which no sane person will run and authenticate, but they are easily avoided with a bit of common sense.

Nothing to get complacent about, but still no point in installing anti-virus software under OS X at this point. It's quite a bit ridiculous to put both platforms on the same level as you're trying to.
 
cumulus
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:26 pm

Article here that may be of some interest Klaus.




Big version: Width: 702 Height: 1145 File size: 220kb
What Goes Up Must Come Down, Hopefully In One Piece!
 
Klaus
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:01 am



Quoting Cumulus (Reply 13):
Article here that may be of some interest Klaus.

Yeah, that's the trojan I was talking about. Not a virus, and easily avoidable if you've got your wits about you. Which I generally recommend.
 
Flighty
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:58 am

Macs do have fundamental file protection attributes baked into the UNIX kernel. There are reasons why writing viruses for Macs is a lot harder, and will not get you as far.

The Microsoft design philosophy -- linking OS to apps like Excel which contains Macros, auto-fills, etc is a large part of Windows' vulnerability. To a large extent, Microsoft was idiotic about security design philosophy for many, many years. Only in the last 3 or 4 years has Microsoft gotten serious about security.


When Apple detects vulnerabilities to the Mac OS, updates are cooked within days and all internet-connected macs typically download the fixes within a week or so. This keeps the primary pool of Macs pretty strong against viruses. Anti-virus software is only needed when your problems have escalated -- your system faces code it is ill-equipped to fight out of the box. Apple machines fight pretty hard.

As time goes on, the mac will see more viruses. But nothing like Windows, hopefully. There are technical reasons about UNIX why file systems are harder to crack. You can run your user directory while it is fully 128 bit encrypted, for example. I am not a security expert but there are other sources online to help answer that question.

Anyway, about this thread, I would not install Windows on the same boot drive as Mac OS, but if you do, virus protect the hell out of Windows. Otherwise, your Mac side could suffer damage. I don't see why not. They are not separate partitions, are they?
 
F9Widebody
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:21 am

My University gives me Norton for free to run on my mac...it has never found a thing and I generally think its a resource hog. Any reason to even use it?

Best
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Arrow
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Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2002 7:44 am

RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:38 am



Quoting Flighty (Reply 15):
My University gives me Norton for free to run on my mac...it has never found a thing and I generally think its a resource hog. Any reason to even use it?

I think you can scrap it. I used to have Norton virus stuff on my macs, but haven't used it for years -- and I've had no problems.
Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 
ebs757
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:17 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 14):
that's the trojan I was talking about. Not a virus,

And whats the difference to the average consumer?

none
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Klaus
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Fri Nov 23, 2007 8:57 am



Quoting F9Widebody (Reply 16):
My University gives me Norton for free to run on my mac...it has never found a thing and I generally think its a resource hog. Any reason to even use it?

No. You should also be aware that "security software" often introduces new vulnerabilities which have already been exploited under Windows. So if you don't need it (as is currently the case on the Mac), don't install it. Especially not the Norton crap which is generally known to be shoddily done.

Quoting Ebs757 (Reply 18):
And whats the difference to the average consumer?

A virus propagates on its own.

A trojan depends on being explicitly run (and explicitly authenticated) by the user, usually under false pretenses - hence the name. So simply don't do that - "even" and especially when it's promising porn - and it won't hurt you.
 
Goldenshield
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:40 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 19):
"even" and especially when it's promising porn

Interesting that you mention that. I was watching an interview the other day where the interviewee noted that 95% of all infections are caused by hormones.  Wink

Now, why a company (regardless of product) would intentionally expose their *paying* clients to such malware is beyond me.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
 
Klaus
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RE: Macs And Anti Virus.

Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:57 am



Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 20):
Interesting that you mention that. I was watching an interview the other day where the interviewee noted that 95% of all infections are caused by hormones.

And that's just as true for "wetware" and software infections alike...!  mischievous 

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 20):
Now, why a company (regardless of product) would intentionally expose their *paying* clients to such malware is beyond me.

Some have been hacked by the actual criminals, others are just a front for malware distribution with the porn "content" just used as bait.

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