wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

Crackpot Judge?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:38 am

I did a quick search in the forum and didn't see anything about this guy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071128/...;_ylt=Amvad3Pjk1op3YzxuA7iumAuQE4F

Seems that he had his whole courtroom arrested and JAILED because one persons cell rang and the culprit didn't step forward.

I remember when the teacher would close the windows because some jagoff wouldn't confess to a spitwad, but jailing innocent people?

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. The "best" part of the whole thing is that he was suffering "stress" and is appealing.

Sad, sad, sad... Granted that I don't know the whole story about what went on in that courtroom, locking up 40-some-odd individuals because someone's phone rang, even if it was for a few hours... this dude needs to be at the very least processed and dumped in a cell for as long as these other folks were.

When I read stuff like this, justice is not only blind, but it's freakin' ignorant.
We can agree to disagree.
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
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RE: Crackpot Judge?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 7:44 am



Quoting Wukka (Thread starter):
I remember when the teacher would close the windows because some jagoff wouldn't confess to a spitwad

Hey... Do not call me a jagoff  Wink

Quoting Wukka (Thread starter):
When I read stuff like this, justice is not only blind, but it's freakin' ignorant

I'm pretty sure that he's not representative of the entire criminal justice system.

He's probably got problems, I don't agree with what he did, I doubt many people do, but he's been removed from the bench. Beyond that no one faced too much hardship.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:13 am



Quoting NeilYYZ (Reply 1):
Beyond that no one faced too much hardship.

Other than sitting in a courtroom observing proceedings and getting jailed.

Maybe the other folks in the room had something other to do than spend time behind bars once court was dismissed.

I guess that I don't see your point here, unless you enjoy being detained for some bullshit reason.
We can agree to disagree.
 
Nuori5084
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:25 am

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:24 am

That's insane. That would piss me off if no one owned up too, but I would never think to go that far! That judges call was beyond the scope of reasonable.
Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:26 am

Too me this seems to scream of false arrest and false imprisonment. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not an attorney.

BUT, if I was in that courtroom for whatever reason, I don't think I would of just "gone to jail". I don't see how he got away with this and people just let it happen.
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:33 am



Quoting Wukka (Reply 2):
I guess that I don't see your point here, unless you enjoy being detained for some bullshit reason.

It was a couple of hours. The judge is gone. No one was hurt. The people detained should probably be tossed a couple hundred dollars to make up for any time that they may have lost from work. Beyond that, I don't know what else you'd expect done.

I don't disagee with your premise that the judge was a crackpot.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6627
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:37 am



Quoting Lobster (Reply 4):
Too me this seems to scream of false arrest and false imprisonment. Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not an attorney.

BUT, if I was in that courtroom for whatever reason, I don't think I would of just "gone to jail". I don't see how he got away with this and people just let it happen.

Look up "Contempt of Court" sometime. Judges have a wide latitude as to what they may allow in the courtroom and what discipline they can mete out.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
lobster
Posts: 653
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RE: Crackpot Judge?

Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:29 am



Quoting Fr8mech (Reply 6):
Look up "Contempt of Court" sometime. Judges have a wide latitude as to what they may allow in the courtroom and what discipline they can mete out.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c118.htm

"CONTEMPT OF COURT - Any willful disobedience to, or disregard of, a court order or any misconduct in the presence of a court; action that interferes with a judge's ability to administer justice or that insults the dignity of the court; punishable by fine or imprisonment or both. There are both civil and criminal contempts; the distinction is often unclear.

Contempt Of Court -- Civil Or Criminal


"A judge who feels someone is improperly challenging or ignoring the court's authority has the power to declare the defiant person (called the contemnor) in contempt of court. There are two types of contempt - criminal and civil. Criminal contempt occurs when the contemnor actually interferes with the ability of the court to function properly - for example, by yelling at the judge. This is also called direct contempt because it occurs directly in front of the judge. A criminal contemnor may be fined, jailed or both as punishment for his act.

Civil contempt occurs when the contemnor willfully disobeys a court order. This is also called indirect contempt because it occurs outside the judge's immediate realm and evidence must be presented to the judge to prove the contempt. A civil contemnor, too, may be fined, jailed or both. The fine or jailing is meant to coerce the contemnor into obeying the court, not to punish him, and the contemnor will be released from jail just as soon as he complies with the court order. In family law, civil contempt is one way a court enforces alimony, child support, custody and visitation orders which have been violated.

However, many courts have realized that, at least regarding various procedural matters such as appointment of counsel, the distinction between civil and criminal contempt is often blurred and uncertain.

A Willful Disregard Or Disobedience Of A Public Authority.

By the Constitution of the United States, each house of congress may determine the rules of its proceeding's, punish its members for disorderly behaviour and, with the concurrence of two-thirds, expel a member. The same provision is substantially contained in the constitutions of the several states.

The power to make rules carries that of enforcing them, and to attach persons who violate them and punish them for contempts. This power of punishing for contempts is confined to punishment during the session of the legislature and cannot extend beyond it, and it seems this power cannot be exerted beyond imprisonment.

Courts of justice have an inherent power to punish all persons for contempt of their rules and orders, for disobedience of their process, and for disturbing them in their proceedings."


It seems that you first need to be "in contempt" to be punished. Simply being in the same room when someone else is "in contempt" does not seem to satisfy the standard. Good thing he was kicked off the bench. What a d-bag.
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:10 am



Quoting Lobster (Reply 7):
It seems that you first need to be "in contempt" to be punished. Simply being in the same room when someone else is "in contempt" does not seem to satisfy the standard.

Depends on whether the court rules were posted in the hallway outside the courtroom or on the courtroom door. If they were, specifically prohibited cell phones to be on (while in the courtroom) and the person carried an active cell phone inside, then they would be in contempt. In the Pima County Superior Court (my workplace), cell phones are not permitted to be on while one is in court and the rule is clearly posted in the hallways. Some federal courts have local rules that prohibit the public from carrying a cell phone beyond the security checkpoints. When I interned with the United States District Court-Eastern District of Tennessee, all cell phones carried in by the public were required to be checked at the security checkpoint. You would receive a claim tag so that you could retrieve your phone when leaving. Only court staff were permitted to carry cell phones beyond security and those were to be turned off while in the office.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:20 am

This is the part that kills me, though...

"Restaino told the state panel he had been under stress in his personal life."

...and is going to appeal to get back on the damn bench!

What I'd *really* like to know is if this arrest will be wiped off the record, or are these people he ordered imprisoned going to have a record for contempt (or whatever they were booked on)? If the answer is no, there are plenty of lives that have been damaged the next time they submit their resume and have to fill out an application for damn near anything. For most decent jobs, and some that suck, the background check is the rule, not the exception.

Not to mention the 14 people that were shackled and bussed to another facility because they couldn't post bail.

For anyone who downplays this incident like it's no big deal is just shocking. SHACKLED and bussed. What a fine mess.
We can agree to disagree.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:28 am



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 8):
Depends on whether the court rules were posted in the hallway outside the courtroom or on the courtroom door. If they were, specifically prohibited cell phones to be on (while in the courtroom) and the person carried an active cell phone inside, then they would be in contempt. In the Pima County Superior Court (my workplace), cell phones are not permitted to be on while one is in court and the rule is clearly posted in the hallways. Some federal courts have local rules that prohibit the public from carrying a cell phone beyond the security checkpoints. When I interned with the United States District Court-Eastern District of Tennessee, all cell phones carried in by the public were required to be checked at the security checkpoint. You would receive a claim tag so that you could retrieve your phone when leaving. Only court staff were permitted to carry cell phones beyond security and those were to be turned off while in the office.

Did you even read the article?!? The WHOLE of the COURTROOM ATTENDEES were jailed. Are you telling me that *every single one of them* had a cell phone on their person?

Please read the frickin' article before you go on about how it is where you work. I would hope that you find this absolutely ridiculous upon knowledge of the situation.
We can agree to disagree.
 
57AZ
Posts: 2371
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:55 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:32 pm



Quoting Wukka (Reply 10):
Did you even read the article?!?

I did. If they refuse to answer the judge, then yes they are in contempt. A simple yes or no would suffice. It may seem extreme, but that is the perogative of the judge. The presiding judge issues the rules for the entire court, but each judge or commissioner can add their own courtroom rules as long as they do not conflict with the local court rules or statute. The judge has wide latitude as to how to enforce the rules or whether to suspend a rule in the interest of justice.

Do I think the judge's response was extreme? Yes. Do I find it ridiculous? Not entirely. The hearings involved were domestic violence hearings and I don't know what was being said in open court. Here, domestic violence hearings are held in camera and non-related members of the public are not generally permitted in the courtroom while petitions are being heard. It would have been more appropriate for the judge to poll the people in the gallery to see who possessed a phone and deal only with that group.
"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:42 pm



Quoting Wukka (Thread starter):
Seems that he had his whole courtroom arrested and JAILED because one persons cell rang and the culprit didn't step forward.

That's about the same as deleting an entire thread because of a couple of bad posts!  Big grin
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:49 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 12):
That's about the same as deleting an entire thread because of a couple of bad posts!  

 rotf   rotf   rotf   rotf   rotf   rotf   rotf   rotf 
 
airlinelover
Posts: 5287
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RE: Crackpot Judge?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:24 pm

One thing worth mentioning is that this was in 2005.... why is this happening 2 years later?
Lets do some sexy math. We add you, subtract your clothes, divide your legs and multiply
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6627
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:50 pm



Quoting Lobster (Reply 7):
It seems that you first need to be "in contempt" to be punished.

But it is the judge that gets to decide what is contempt and what is not. Oversight comes later, as in this case.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:21 pm



Quoting 57AZ (Reply 11):
Do I think the judge's response was extreme? Yes. Do I find it ridiculous? Not entirely.

You got to be kidding..Locking up 46 people on a whim? Wonder how much the city will end up paying on this.

Quoting Airlinelover (Reply 14):
One thing worth mentioning is that this was in 2005.... why is this happening 2 years later?

It takes that long to go through the entire process. I would guess he's been off the bench for awhile.
 
wukka
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 1:08 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:01 am

Well, as of Wednesday, his "ticket" was yanked permanently, so it would appear that some with common sense and decency prevailed.

Note to judges, don't be a dick in a public court. :P
We can agree to disagree.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4045
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:54 am



Quoting Lobster (Reply 4):
I don't see how he got away with this and people just let it happen.

No kidding - why didn't any of the bailiffs (sp?) step in and refuse to obey the order? In a lot of professions you not only have the right but also the resposibility to refuse accepting unlawful orders or if you are under the impression that your superior is mentally unstable, which clearly seems to be the case. Do bailiffs have that right?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
fr8mech
Posts: 6627
Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:00 am

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:18 am



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
No kidding - why didn't any of the bailiffs (sp?) step in and refuse to obey the order?

Because, then they would have been held in contempt.
When seconds count...the police are minutes away.
 
Pyrex
Posts: 4045
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:24 am

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:30 am



Quoting Fr8Mech (Reply 19):
Because, then they would have been held in contempt.

But who would hold them?
Read this very carefully, I shall write this only once!
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:32 am



Quoting Pyrex (Reply 18):
Do bailiffs have that right?

I doubt it. I don't know that for a fact mind you. The judge clearly had problems, as long as everything gets cleared up for those that were arrested then that's all that matters. Even if the bailiffs did have that right I doubt this situation would warrant using that power, because no one's life was ever in jeopardy, and there never was any real danger to the people who were arrested.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:43 am

RE: Crackpot Judge?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:54 am



Quoting Wukka (Thread starter):
locking up 40-some-odd individuals because someone's phone rang, even if it was for a few hours...

Wouldn't this count as collective punishment? And is that even legal in the US? Sure as hell is a human rights violation...

Still, I gotta say that I enjoy civil servants who go on a nutty every once in a while, means that the bureaucracy in which they live hasn't supressed every ounce of humanity...  silly 

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