cumulonimbus
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Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:00 pm

In any Religion is it possible to go to "Heaven" after suicide? I was wondering this for about a week any people versed in any religion such as Hindu, Islam, and Christianity feel free to chime in.


Mike
 
Cadet985
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:25 pm

As far as I know, ALL religions consider suicide a mortal sin.

Marc
 
AirCop
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:26 pm

It must be possible in the Mormon religion. According to my relatives (on the wife's side) and neighbors, the Mormons have three levels of heaven, and the only ones that go to hell are the people that leave the Mormon religion. Heck who knows, never talked with anyone that been to Heaven, but a couple from Hell (Hell, MI that is).
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:27 pm

Except the suicide bombers who have all the virgins waiting for them!
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
JGPH1A
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 8:28 pm



Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 1):
As far as I know, ALL religions consider suicide a mortal sin.

I don't think so. In Japan, suicide is not socially unacceptible, so clearly there is no religious injunction there. And anyway, the concept of "mortal" or irredeemable sin is purely a Catholic notion.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:00 pm



Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 1):
As far as I know, ALL religions consider suicide a mortal sin.

That jives with what I've heard as well. Now, speaking as a Christian, God has the final say in who enters Heaven and who does not. So it might be possible.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
luv2fly
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 5):
That jives with what I've heard as well. Now, speaking as a Christian, God has the final say in who enters Heaven and who does not. So it might be possible.

That is "IF" there is in fact a so called after life.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Emirates773ER
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:24 pm

Suicide is prohibited within Islam, infact I find suicide bombings to go against the Islam as well.

In Christianity it is described as a 'moral sin' by Saint Augustine, although not condemned by the church in all cases like in that of a rape victim killing herself.
The Truth is Out There ---- Face It!!!!!
 
Jean Leloup
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:02 pm

In the Christian context, 'mortal sin' is very much 'catholic' term. That said, it doesn't mean that the concept is completely absent in protestant circles, but protestantism has traditionally had less firm categorizations or 'values' of sins.

In any case, growing up in a more or less moderate protestant context, I never, ever heard anyone say that suicide was a 'damning' sin. The first time I ever even heard that idea was when studying Hamlet, in grade 13(!)

Religion is a very complicated thing (as much as people of both 'sides' tend to oversimplify it), and you should realize that a complicated ethical question is going to have complicated, nuanced answers (if any!) First of all, not all religions even have a concept of an afterlife. Also, importantly, most religions that do believe in an afterlife, the attainment of which is linked to moral action, also entertain (to varying extents) the importance of mitigating factors that may take some of the moral agency out of the hands of the 'offendor'. I'm not a scholar of catholicism, but I'm sure that somewhere in the catechisms there are exemptions to the mortal qualification of suicide, i.e., when commited under inhuman suffering, etc.

JL
Next flight.... who knows.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:07 pm

If you think so, then yes. It is not what others think, it is what you think. Others may have their opinions and, who knows, they may be wrong in the end, anyway. No one will ever know.

What you believe is what it will be at the end of the day. It is not for others to decide.
You can't cure stupid
 
G5ive
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:15 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
and the only ones that go to hell are the people that leave the Mormon religion.

Oddly enough that feels like a gang rule. Big grin "The only way of ever leaving a gang is by death"
Do I sign here?
 
TACAA320
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:24 pm

A person who attempts or commits suicide is most often not in "their right mind" ie...severe depression, extreme emotional distress, anger. We all know God is merciful and takes into consideration our situation and circumstances. If mercy can be shown to murders and such (1Corinthians 6:9-11) surely He will take into count the severe emotional stress and any other factors that might cause this tragedy. Our hope lies in the hands of our merciful heavenly father "who forgives in a large way" Isaiah 55:7
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
beefer
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:36 pm

My niece's husband killed himself last Spring.

We went to the funeral (at a Catholic church) and the Priest talked several times during the Mass about him being in Heaven, that we will all see him again in Heaven, etc....

I know my wife and I discussed it at length on the way home as we were both under the impression (having both grown up Catholic and still active) that suicide was a Sin and that you would not go to Heaven.

Maybe the Priest was just trying to make everyone feel better??? I don't know...
 
TACAA320
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 10:53 pm



Quoting Beefer (Reply 12):
that suicide was a Sin and that you would not go to Heaven.

Maybe the Priest was just trying to make everyone feel better??? I don't know...

So sorry for your lost.

But the priest was right in my humble opinion.

As I said before "Our hope lies in the hands of our merciful heavenly father "who forgives in a large way" Isaiah 55:7".
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:08 pm



Quoting Beefer (Reply 12):
We went to the funeral (at a Catholic church) and the Priest talked several times during the Mass about him being in Heaven, that we will all see him again in Heaven, etc....

I know my wife and I discussed it at length on the way home as we were both under the impression (having both grown up Catholic and still active) that suicide was a Sin and that you would not go to Heaven.

Maybe the Priest was just trying to make everyone feel better??? I don't know...

God is the one who judges our hearts. Not people and not churches. For something to be sinful involves a deliberate, free will decision to turn away from God. I have yet to encounter either a suicide vicitm or someone who threatens or attempts suicide who met this criteria, and as such their ability to make a free-will decision is comprimised by depression or some other circumstance which clouds their judgment.

That being said, I have a hard time believing that a God of mercy and forgiveness would condemn someone for actions beyond their control.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
sleekjet
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:08 pm

Great answers by TACAA320. God's grace is sufficient to cover everything except a blasphemous lifestyle. Even though I was taught while growing up that suicide was getting your ticket punched for hell, I now believe that if a Christian thinks it is a viable option, however warped that thinking may be, God's forgiveness will cover it...activated, of course, by the redeeming blood of Jesus Christ.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:15 pm

I like your response Sleekjet. I believe that also. Many times one wants to escape the horrible life he or she is living in order to be in a better place. I belive you will go to heaven if you decide to commit suicide.

Hunter
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
sleekjet
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:31 pm

I just want to emphasize that I no way would condone suicide or counsel someone that direction, but should it happen, grace is there. I'm happy to leave such conundrums to an omniscient God.
II Cor. 4:17-18
 
ltbewr
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:34 am

I have heard of a story of a woman who went to her Jewish Rabbi and asked him if here husband, who had committed suicide would go to hell. The Rabbi replied no, for a person who takes their own life, must have been mental ill.
I would say it would be a sin to take one's own life if in a free will decision, are of the age of reason, and such as choosing to commit a terror act (9/11). Even then, I question the existence of hell, but perhaps there are different levels of heaven. To me Hell is a concept created by man to control others not to do bad things.
 
bezoar
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:07 am



Quoting ShyFlyer (Reply 5):
Now, speaking as a Christian, God has the final say in who enters Heaven and who does not.

Yes, this is exactly right.

I believe that most Christian theologians would say that sin is sin, and while the Bible characterizes some sin as being 'abominable,' the only sin that is considered unforgivable is blaspheme against the Holy Spirit. Therefore all else is considered forgivable, including suicide.
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
RacingGreen07
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:07 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
Except the suicide bombers who have all the virgins waiting for them!

If your talking about the supposed quote from The Qu'ran which supposedly says suicide bombers will have 72 virgins waiting for them, then your mistaken. The Qu'ran says no such thing it was actually misinterpreted and later it was found that the Qu'ran said that martyrs would get 72 white grapes NOT virgins.

In Islam if one does commit suicide on his own or with the intent to hurt civilians (through the use of explosives) then he or she will receive punishment in the hereafter.

Regards!
A dream worth having is a dream worth pursuing- August Horch- Founder of Audi AG
 
Superfly
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:23 pm



Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 20):
The Qu'ran says no such thing it was actually misinterpreted and later it was found that the Qu'ran said that martyrs would get 72 white grapes NOT virgins.

Wow, I bet those terrorist were pissed off once they realized they killed themselves and thousands of others over some stupid grapes. Were they sour grapes?  Silly

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
It must be possible in the Mormon religion. According to my relatives (on the wife's side) and neighbors, the Mormons have three levels of heaven, and the only ones that go to hell are the people that leave the Mormon religion. Heck who knows, never talked with anyone that been to Heaven, but a couple from Hell (Hell, MI that is).

Interesting post.
I lost a friend earlier this year who committed suicide. He came from a Mormon family but swore up & down that he didn't believe in that belief system. I think it is awful that he abandoned his two young daughters, wife and those who loved him the most.

Cumulonimbus:
Suicide is a cowardly act so don't do it.
When you are feeling down, turn off the grunge/emo and listen to some happy music or go plane spotting to uplift your spirits.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
RacingGreen07
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:32 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Wow, I bet those terrorist were pissed off once they realized they killed themselves and thousands of others over some stupid grapes. Were they sour grapes? Silly

Terrorists give pain and death to innocent civilians so therefore these terrorists would be punished in the hereafter according to Islam. They (to my knowledge) would not be granted paradise.

The Qu'ran says :

... that whoever took a life, unless it be for murder or for spreading disorder on earth , it would be as if he killed all mankind; and whoever saved a life, it would be as if he saved all mankind. (5:32)...

And no lol they were white grapes.......which I have never tasted.

Regards.
A dream worth having is a dream worth pursuing- August Horch- Founder of Audi AG
 
andz
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 12:50 pm

I think suicide is viewed as jumping the queue, and they take a dim view of that up there.
After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
 
Superfly
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:36 pm



Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 22):
They (to my knowledge) would not be granted paradise.

But they'll get white grapes which may be appetizing if you aren't allowed to eat pork and drink booze.

Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 22):
... that whoever took a life, unless it be for murder or for spreading disorder on earth , it would be as if he killed all mankind; and whoever saved a life, it would be as if he saved all mankind. (5:32)...

That needs to be emphasized more in Islam and is often overlooked by the one's that get all the attention in the Western media outlets.




Cumulonimbus:
If you are depressed, listen to the Grand Illusion album by STYX.
So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because you never win the game
Just remember that its a grand illusion
And deep inside were all the same.
Were all the same...

So if you think your life is complete confusion
Because your neighbors got it made
Just remember that its a grand illusion
And deep inside were all the same.
Were all the same...
Bring back the Concorde
 
TACAA320
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:50 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 21):
Suicide is a cowardly act so don't do it.

Not always. Most of the times is the consequence of an emotional imbalance [eg. depression]. Even some medications may produce, as a side effect, tendency to the suicide.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
RacingGreen07
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:20 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
That needs to be emphasized more in Islam and is often overlooked by the one's that get all the attention in the Western media outlets.

I couldn't agree more.

Regards.
A dream worth having is a dream worth pursuing- August Horch- Founder of Audi AG
 
Superfly
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 3:22 pm



Quoting TACAA320 (Reply 25):
Most of the times is the consequence of an emotional imbalance [eg. depression]. Even some medications may produce, as a side effect, tendency to the suicide.

That's fair enough but I still highly advise against it.
Bring back the Concorde
 
asuflyer05
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:20 pm



Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 14):

God is the one who judges our hearts. Not people and not churches. For something to be sinful involves a deliberate, free will decision to turn away from God. I have yet to encounter either a suicide vicitm or someone who threatens or attempts suicide who met this criteria, and as such their ability to make a free-will decision is comprimised by depression or some other circumstance which clouds their judgment.

That being said, I have a hard time believing that a God of mercy and forgiveness would condemn someone for actions beyond their control.

/
|
|
What he said.

Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 20):
72 white grapes NOT virgins.

White grapes or cherries? Maybe that's the misinterpretation. Just kidding, LOL.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:50 pm

" ... In fact to neglect the ordinary means for preserving life is equivalent to killing one's self, but the same is not true with regard to extraordinary means. Thus theologians teach that one is not bound in order to preserve life to employ remedies which, considering one's condition, are regarded as extraordinary and involving extraordinary expenditure; one is not obliged to undergo a very painful surgical operation, nor a considerable amputation, nor to go into exile in order to seek a more beneficial climate, etc. To use a comparison, the lessee of a house is bound to take care of it as becomes a good father of a family, to make use of the ordinary means for the preservation of the property, for instance, to extinguish a fire which he may easily extinguish, etc., but he is not bound to employ means considered extraordinary, such as to procure the latest novelties invented by science to prevent or extinguish fire... "

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14326b.htm
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ctbarnes
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:48 pm



Quoting Tugger (Reply 44):
This may be a dumb question, but could the Catholic concept of suicide being a mortal sin have derived from their desire to prevent people they were torturing during the Inquisition from taking their own life? It may seem silly but it could have helped prevent people from short circuiting their efforts by "taking the easy way out". Like I said it may be a stupid thought.

I ran across this article on the internet after doing a quick search:

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=1924

Perhaps my fellow seminarian on this site can elaborate further...

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
cumulonimbus
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:57 pm

Hmm thanks for the insight, I was just wondering if god or whomever or whatever power there be could understand people who are so racked with pain and despair lonleyness guilt sickness or whatever could finnaly find thier peace.


Mike
 
AA777
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 5:10 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
the Mormons have three levels of heaven, and the only ones that go to hell are the people that leave the Mormon religion

You are misinformed. I was raised mormon.... you dont go to hell really... its supposed to be outer darkness (the equivalent of hell)....and that only for Murder...and for denying christ and the holy ghost. And in order to deny them, you have to have had them appear to you in some form...and then say it did not happen. One of the Apostles (yeah, you can see how much church study I did) denied Christ- BUT didnt deny the holy ghost. So, according to Moromon doctrine he should be okay b/c you have to do both. lol....

Its really more complicated than that... but for sake of simplicity, mormons believe in something similar to purgatory.... so I think "bad" people technically including ppl who killed themselves woud go there first and then be raised to a level of heaven eventually.....

I personally dont buy any of this.... suicide is a one way ticket to hell or whatever. A person who kills him/herself is obviously not rational or in the right frame of mind... how can someone be punished for that? But whatever, let the religous people continue to insist that you can... damnation for suicide really doesnt sound very graceful or merciful to me. But maybe I'm too nice.

-AA777
 
RacingGreen07
Posts: 211
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:07 pm



Quoting LH526 (Reply 37):

Does the Coran talk abut 18year old female virgins? Can' they be as well fat sweaty males in their upper 60s ... they can be virgins too!

Mario
LH526

I kindly refer you to post 30.

Many Thanks!

Regards.

Oh and its Qu'ran.
A dream worth having is a dream worth pursuing- August Horch- Founder of Audi AG
 
TACAA320
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:42 pm



Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 51):
Oh and its Qu'ran.

Nevertheless, it can be translated as "Coran".

http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/quran/index.htm
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:56 pm



Quoting Beefer (Reply 12):
the funeral (at a Catholic church) and the Priest talked several times during the Mass about him being in Heaven, that we will all see him again in Heaven, etc....

I know my wife and I discussed it at length on the way home as we were both under the impression (having both grown up Catholic and still active) that suicide was a Sin and that you would not go to Heaven.

Maybe the Priest was just trying to make everyone feel better??? I don't know...

Doesn't God forgive sins ?
-
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:21 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 53):
Doesn't God forgive sins ?

Of course He does.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
slider
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:48 pm



Quoting Emirates773er (Reply 7):
Suicide is prohibited within Islam, infact I find suicide bombings to go against the Islam as well.

Well, some of them didn’t get the message evidently.

Quoting Jean Leloup (Reply 8):
In the Christian context, 'mortal sin' is very much 'catholic' term. That said, it doesn't mean that the concept is completely absent in protestant circles, but protestantism has traditionally had less firm categorizations or 'values' of sins.

In many ways, this is one thing that I’ve always been fuzzy on with Catholicism…the whole original sin thing and then being confirmed. Catholics believe in one baptism, which is purely a man made construct, a dogmatic law, but what about actual spirituality? I don’t want to get off topic, but there are a lot of things that perplex me about Catholicism and the ‘mortal sin’ thing is one of them.

Quoting RacingGreen07 (Reply 20):
The Qu'ran says no such thing it was actually misinterpreted and later it was found that the Qu'ran said that martyrs would get 72 white grapes NOT virgins.

Whoops, that’s some typo, LOL! Reminds me of Achmed and Jeff Dunham…”they didn’t say all the virgins would be female!”

Quoting Tugger (Reply 44):
This may be a dumb question, but could the Catholic concept of suicide being a mortal sin have derived from their desire to prevent people they were torturing during the Inquisition from taking their own life?

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!! haha

Quoting AA777 (Reply 50):
You are misinformed. I was raised mormon.... you dont go to hell really... its supposed to be outer darkness (the equivalent of hell)....and that only for Murder...and for denying christ and the holy ghost. And in order to deny them, you have to have had them appear to you in some form...and then say it did not happen. One of the Apostles (yeah, you can see how much church study I did) denied Christ- BUT didnt deny the holy ghost. So, according to Moromon doctrine he should be okay b/c you have to do both. lol....

Its really more complicated than that... but for sake of simplicity, mormons believe in something similar to purgatory.... so I think "bad" people technically including ppl who killed themselves woud go there first and then be raised to a level of heaven eventually.....

So there are shades of sin? I thought I was fuzzy about Catholicism, I’m really baffled by Mormonism…
 
Pope
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:52 pm

Charles,

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the official Catholic Church's position is officially that other than Saints (and very few other specific exceptions [i.e. the Virgin Mary, the repentant criminal, etc. . . ]) the church itself does not take any position on whether any particular person is in heaven or elsewhere after death. Can you comment on that?
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
TACAA320
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:59 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 55):
Catholics believe in one baptism, which is purely a man made construct, a dogmatic law, but what about actual spirituality?

"This is not to suggest that Christian baptism was derived from proselyte baptism. What evidence there is leads us to conclude, on the contrary, that Christian baptism was patterned after the baptism of Jesus by John the Baptism in the Jordan river. There is no hint of a death-resurrection theme, no initiatory motif, no notion of admission to a new community. The emphasis is instead upon repentance as a preparation for messianic work. John's baptism was also a baptism in water. It would give way to another baptism in water and the Holy Spirit (Mt 3:11; Lk 3:16). John himself regarded his baptism as a temporary rite. In submitting to it, Jesus established his solidarity with those who were objects of John's preaching, the faithful remnant of Israel..."

http://www.whiterobedmonks.org/baptism.html
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:17 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 56):
Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding of the official Catholic Church's position is officially that other than Saints (and very few other specific exceptions [i.e. the Virgin Mary, the repentant criminal, etc. . . ]) the church itself does not take any position on whether any particular person is in heaven or elsewhere after death. Can you comment on that?

Yes, I think that's right. The Church is very reluctant to make specific judgments about whether or not an individual goes to heaven or hell, since that is ultimately God's decision. Nor is anyone predestined to hell, rather, sin is viewed as a willful turning away from God's free gift of salvation.

Hope that helps,

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:22 pm



Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 58):
The Church is very reluctant to make specific judgments about whether or not an individual goes to heaven or hell,

But quick to judge, nonetheless.

Quoting Ctbarnes (Reply 58):
since that is ultimately God's decision

Bingo, we have a winner. Cut the middle man out.
You can't cure stupid
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:39 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 55):

So there are shades of sin? I thought I was fuzzy about Catholicism, I�m really baffled by Mormonism�

Haha.... well yeah, there are shades of sin, wouldnt you say? You dont think telling someone a small lie is not as bad as cheating on your husband or wife? Though I dont really go by Mormon rules... I think that there's something to be said for the concept of a reward that fits your life. If you lived extremely well, then you would be rewarded extremely well. If you were so-so....then the reward is so-so. It makes perfect sense to me. Catholicism with the either hell-fire or heaven... its too black and white for my taste. It doesnt really matter to me though, I am agnostic so.... my view is to live your life the best you can and treat people the way you would want to be treated. Period.

-AA777
 
redngold
Posts: 6673
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2000 12:26 pm

RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:43 pm

It's my personal belief that most who commit suicide are temporarily insane and acting out of desperation. However this doesn't apply to those who the conservative media aptly labels "homicide bombers" rather than suicide bombers. I think that people who plan to take others out with them are murderers, plain and simple (no matter whether it's a bomb, a car, or something else.)
Up, up and away!
 
aa757first
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:46 pm

I didn't read through all of the posts. However, in Catholicism (not sure about other Christian religions), for a sin to be considered a sin, the sinner must perform the sin willfully and know that it is wrong. Since in many cases, the suicide victim is too depressed to be thinking rationally, he/she doesn't actually understand what they are doing. So the answer is, yes, its possible.
 
Pope
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RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:05 am



Quoting Aa757first (Reply 62):
So the answer is, yes, its possible.

If we're talking about heaven, then the conversation has to recognize the existence of a God. If we recognize the existence of a God that created heaven and hell and everything in between - doesn't it then necessarily follow that EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE for God?

I think too often man (humans) tries to understand God's behavior in humanly terms when in fact God transcends humanity. God need not explain himself it terms we understand (and/or in terms that our finite minds can even hope to understand).
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
bezoar
Posts: 746
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 4:47 am

RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:38 am



Quoting Pope (Reply 63):
doesn't it then necessarily follow that EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE for God?

I agree that we get into trouble when we place limitations on God. However, I believe that it would be safe to assume that God can't possibly be contrary to His nature, so not everything is possible.

For instance, it wasn't possible for God to become sinful. Thus when Jesus truly took sin upon Himself, He was forsaken by God. Or at least that's my understanding.

It might seem like a minor point, but I think it's helpful when we try to understand Him.

Peace,

Bezoar
"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
 
ReidYYZ
Posts: 503
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 4:00 am

RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:32 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
Except the suicide bombers who have all the virgins waiting for them!

According to Peter Griffin's vision, the virgins are IT geeks tapping away at keyboards looking forward to the next Comic-con. Hey, it's Peter Griffin saying it, not me.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 4:54 am



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 59):
But quick to judge, nonetheless.

Seems you're awfully quick to do so too...

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 59):
Bingo, we have a winner. Cut the middle man out.

If we did that, on whom would you project your issues about religion?

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: Is It Possible To Go To Heaven After Suicide?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:13 am

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 62):
However, in Catholicism (not sure about other Christian religions), for a sin to be considered a sin, the sinner must perform the sin willfully and know that it is wrong.

"Catholicism" nor "other Christian religions" are religions. They are "churches".

"Christianity" is a religion.

[Edited 2007-12-03 21:16:46]
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein

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