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Tugger
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Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:57 pm

So Russia is going to the polls today and everything over here says that United Russia and Putin are going to win by a landslide. From what I have read they expect at least a 60 percent turnout and at least 60 percent to vote for United Russia and that it may exceed 66 percent at which point they could re-write the constitution.

I understand that people naturally back the incumbent when things are going well and of course Putin has done a hell of a job of making voting for anyone else to be voting for anarchy, foreign control, and weakening Russia (and yes, I am being "nice" in how I am presenting this). So I wondering how do our Russian members feel about this? How do the Russian people themselves feel about this entire election process so far and the likely results of the election?

I am hoping that this is a thoughtful discussion and not Russia bashing. Thanks.

Tug
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:04 pm

Russia is not a democracy. If it ever have been one.
Some people talks about him as a new Stalin. But we
can watch what he is doing. Controling the media is
one thing that should be a warning to us all. And that
is what he is doing since a long time. Just as during
the Soviet Union years that was one way to rule.

If your boss tells you to vote for Putin if you want to
keep your job, what about that? You are called to
vote at your office with no way to hide your vote for
anyone...
 
RJ100
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:18 pm

This might be true, but in the end democracy is not the number one target the Russians have at the moment. More important for the people is to have a safe income every month and thats where Putin made a good job.

Not a long time ago, Russia was in a catastrophic condition, banks collapsed and people lost all their earnings, had no jobs and nothing at all. In this situation, democracy is not the most important thing you need. You need a job, you need a safe income and you need a more or less stable country. Again, Putin made a good job there. That said, I think Russia will see more democratic rights once they have a certain level of welfare.

My 2 roubles

Thomas

[Edited 2007-12-02 09:19:49]
none
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 3:08 pm

Strange that so few is interested in this post as it will affect us all 100 times more
than ever Hugo Chavez will...
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:14 pm

I am happy. I, and everyone I know (except my grandfather) voted for United Russia. The only thing I am a bit upset about is that United Russia actually got too many votes, I would have liked to see SPS in the Duma just for a bit of a counterbalance. But hey, thats democracy for you.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:20 pm



Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 1):
If your boss tells you to vote for Putin if you want to
keep your job, what about that? You are called to
vote at your office with no way to hide your vote for
anyone...

There is no way they can track who you voted for.
I came to the election site, showed my passport, they wrote my passport number, name and address down, they gave me the ballot (that only had a state seal on it - no name, no way to know who's ballot that was) then they got me to sign for it, and then they asked me if I would like to read up on the candidate parties, I said that I have already made my choice and then asked me to walk into the booth and vote, I went in, voted, folded the paper and then threw it into a sealed box. Now tell me, how is "everybody" supposed to know who I voted for? Will they check the fingerprints on the ballots that were cast against United Russia?
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 4:38 pm



Quoting Tugger (Thread starter):
United Russia and Putin are going to win by a landslide. From what I have read they expect at least a 60 percent turnout and at least 60 percent to vote for United Russia and that it may exceed 66 percent at which point they could re-write the constitution.

-
Whenever I fell that Putin's understanding of democracy is not a strong side of him, I think he overall did and does a good job in modernising the country and improving the economy of his country. The danger is that he in the longer term becomes an absolute ruler, under whatever title (Prime Minister for example) and the chance is that he moves the country to a point where the step into full democracy will be just a technicality

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 2):
democracy is not the number one target the Russians have at the moment.

Democracy seldom is the number ONE target, but it should stay to be one of the targets of your country
 
AGM100
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:09 pm

Well I will say that we have been working many aircraft going to Russia over the past few years (Mainly 737-3,4,5,7,8) and a few A320's. This to me is a good sign , transportation and travel increase is always a good sign of a growing economy and "middle class". I really hope the US can work towards better relations with Russia.

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 2):
That said, I think Russia will see more democratic rights once they have a certain level of welfare.

Agreed , and if Gazpromavia lets it happen.  Wink
You dig the hole .. I fill the hole . 100% employment !
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:19 pm

I am shocked and surprised by this result. Was this supposed to have happened?

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:36 pm



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 8):
I am shocked and surprised by this result. Was this supposed to have happened?

No reason for surprise, for three reasons
A) Putin has curbed the press, and cut back democracy
B) Putin HAS quite some popularity
C) his record in regard to modernisation and imrpoving the economy IS good
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 6:44 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 9):
Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 8):
I am shocked and surprised by this result. Was this supposed to have happened?

No reason for surprise, for three reasons
A) Putin has curbed the press, and cut back democracy
B) Putin HAS quite some popularity
C) his record in regard to modernisation and imrpoving the economy IS good

= It was a joke. Of course, I guess I suck at jokes and dead-panning. I am sticking to my day job.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:15 pm



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 10):
It was a joke

-
A joke it may have been, but it in fact was/is THE question. To put it differently, Mr Putin and his party would have got a respectable result also by really democratic methods but not the two-thirds-majority they wanted to get. There are various changes to the constitution which have to be pulled through like the structure of the Russian Federation where you have a main-part of some 80% of the country and some 15 "sub-republics". What apparently IS to come is the re-grouping of that federation into some 20 federal states of respectable size making that geographically vast country more governable. Then, Russia is in need of modern investment-laws, laws about private enterprise and state-companies, rights of the press and so on. Quite a lot of such things since 1991 have been handled on an ad-hoc day-to-day basis without a proper structure. And the strange thing is that a really democratic parliament would never have agreed to real structural and legal reforms. You might of course argue that Mr Putin will use the new majorities to cement his personal power. No doubt, the danger that the new Russia turns into a KGB dominated country is undeniable.
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:19 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 11):
A joke it may have been, but it in fact was/is THE question. To put it differently, Mr Putin and his party would have got a respectable result also by really democratic methods but not the two-thirds-majority they wanted to get.

= I agree. A lot of people outside Russia fail to see that Putin is an extremely popular figure in Russia. I don't really understand the need for the elections to have been doctored; he would have won anyways.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:42 pm



Quoting Abrelosojos (Reply 12):
he would have won anyways.

Yes, but without the two-thirds majority he wanted to have to do constitutional changes
 
abrelosojos
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:46 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 13):
Yes, but without the two-thirds majority he wanted to have to do constitutional changes

= Oh thats right. I forgot about that.

-A.
Live, and let live.
 
Bofredrik
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:47 pm

With Russia, USA, China as countries with non existing democracy
or a very weak one is the future is the future dangerous for our kids...
 
tu204
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:21 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 13):
Yes, but without the two-thirds majority he wanted to have to do constitutional changes

Even according to my own inquiries with my friends and people I speak to, I would say 3/4 of the people I asked voted for United Russia. So the official 2/3 is extremely real.
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:54 pm



Quoting Bofredrik (Reply 15):
With Russia, USA, China as countries with non existing democracy
or a very weak one is the future is the future dangerous for our kids...

Huh? I fail to see how any logical person would lump the US in this category. Try to explain yourself. I'll give you time to work your foot out of your mouth.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:07 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 17):
in this category

-
THIS category ? it is not one category but three. One is the USA, the other one is Russia with an existing whenever at times doubtful democracy and the third is China with no democracy but the rule of the Communist Party.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:14 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 18):
THIS category ? it is not one category but three. One is the USA, the other one is Russia with an existing whenever at times doubtful democracy and the third is China with no democracy but the rule of the Communist Party.

The category Bofredrik specified was but one category...non-existing/weak democracy as I read it.

Your assessment is accurate. And frankly, with Chavez getting a blow this past Sunday, maybe it's time to shift focus once more on Russia and China instead.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:38 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 19):
non-existing/weak democracy as I read it.

he wrote as if democracy was as inexistant in the USA and Russia as in China which simply is wrong.
 
SInGAPORE_AIR
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:50 pm

I was going to create a read on this but since the tread title says "the future", I may as well stick it in here.

I for one, am very concerned with Russia's sudden resurgence which has accompanied an aura of arrogance.

Evidently they have no qualms of using their oil and gas reserves to exploit and blackmail countries into bowing to their views, read Ukraine. Another example is ther recent stubornness regarding making Deutsce Lufthansa Cargo shift their cargo hub to some obscure Russian city with hardly the same infrastructure as their existing hub in Kazakhstan.

One could accuse me of anti-Russianness. No. I am economically rational, and it is not unexpected, with the prices of fossil fuels as they are, to see a country leverage them.

However, I am not Russian and find their stubbornness disconcerting as well as their unethical political moves.

Europe must manage their energy reliance in a more balanced way with a sense of urgency. It is very clear that we cannot rely on Russian oil and gas to heat our homes and to keep our economies moving. I feel very sorry for the countries like Ukraine that may not be able to proactively pursue such a move for constraints of whatever variety.

Unsettling times. I am indeed, unimpressed.
Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
 
davehammer
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Fu

Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:55 pm

As a student of Eastern European Politics:
Singapore_Air.... I make you spot on.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:58 pm



Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 21):
Russia's sudden resurgence

-
It is NOT "sudden" at all, but took 17 years

Quoting Singapore_Air (Reply 21):
to exploit and blackmail countries into bowing to their views

such methods were used by the Soviet Union, and before 1917 by the Russian Empire, and so are not really new.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:17 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 23):
It is NOT "sudden" at all, but took 17 years

For the amount of work already done in a country of that size, 17 years is very sudden.
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Russian Election -Putin, United Russia; The Future

Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:27 pm



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 24):
It is NOT "sudden" at all, but took 17 years

For the amount of work already done in a country of that size, 17 years is very sudden.

but for a former Superpower to regain some importance, it is very slow !

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