cumulonimbus
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Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:39 pm

Topic name says it all. Who do you guys think are the most Over rated Players or the worst in the NFL? As far as my pick for the most "Over rated" It would have to be QB Eli Manning. IMO that guy is just plain bad and I think he only starts because his brother is the talented Payton Manning.


Enjoy.

Mike

[Edited 2007-12-03 12:41:47]
 
Dougloid
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:44 pm

He didn't have such a great day yesterday except when it counted.

Another in a series of Giants heart attack cliffhangers. They've been doing this stuff for the 30 years I've been watching.
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DLPMMM
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:50 pm

There is no quarterback in the NFL that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as consistantly as Rex Grossman!

The Bears would be better off with Jarjar Binks at QB!

(If someone could now Photoshop a pic of Jarjar with a football helmet, it would be greatly appreciated)

 Smile

[Edited 2007-12-03 12:51:35]
 
cumulonimbus
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:52 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
There is no quarterback in the NFL that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as consistantly as Rex Grossman!

The Bears would be better off with Jarjar Binks at QB!

Oh wow , how could I forget about him.....Poor Rex Gross....
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:00 pm

The thing about the NFL, if you are overrated, you don't stay that way for very long. Eli Manning and Grossman are two good examples, but they won't stick around too long if things continue. One could make that case that Randy Moss was overrated for the past couple of seasons, but a fresh start in NE has taken care of that.
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desertjets
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:11 pm



Quoting Cumulonimbus (Thread starter):
It would have to be QB Eli Manning. IMO that guy is just plain bad and I think he only starts because his brother is the talented Payton Manning.

For a guy who is the starting QB of an 8-4 team, with a decent shot of securing a wild card spot in the playoffs, I don't think you can say Eli is overrated. He is still young and relatively inexperienced.
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srbmod
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 9:18 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
There is no quarterback in the NFL that can snatch defeat from the jaws of victory as consistently as Rex Grossman!

Grossman is just the latest in a long line of Florida Gators QBs that have either stunk up the NFL or couldn't even make an NFL squad.
 
LHMark
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:06 pm

Hey, for the past couple of years, the Bills have been running out a QB whose last name is "Loss-man." Now he's perpetually seesawing the starting job with a Rookie. The guy's favorite dessert is turnovers.
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JA732A
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:16 pm



Quoting Cumulonimbus (Thread starter):
Topic name says it all. Who do you guys think are the most Over rated Players or the worst in the NFL? As far as my pick for the most "Over rated" It would have to be QB Eli Manning. IMO that guy is just plain bad and I think he only starts because his brother is the talented Payton Manning.

He's not the greatest quarterback on the planet - and he makes alot of stupid mistakes, but overall he's a good QB. I think with his time in the NFL, his record is better than his brother's was at the same. The problem with the Giants, is Coughlin who the team has little respect for... they need to get a couch who can install some discipline.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:18 pm



Quoting JA732A (Reply 8):
they need to get a couch who can install some discipline.

How can a couch install some discipline?  Wink
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:21 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 9):
How can a couch install some discipline?

Well, if I could teach my dog to stay off of it, that would be an accomplishment.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
ANITIX87
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:29 pm

Tony Romo.

Enough said.

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LTU932
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:47 pm



Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 10):
Well, if I could teach my dog to stay off of it, that would be an accomplishment.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Anyway, as for me, there is not really a worst and most overrated player in the NFL. For me, the most overrated team in the NFL are the Dallas Cowboys and right now also the New England Patriots.
 
LHMark
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:50 pm



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 12):
For me, the most overrated team in the NFL are the Dallas Cowboys and right now also the New England Patriots.

I'd be curious to hear how the Patriots, at 11-0, are 'overrated.'
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
N1120A
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:52 pm



Quoting Cumulonimbus (Thread starter):
IMO that guy is just plain bad and I think he only starts because his brother is the talented Payton Manning.

And his dad is Archie Manning. Eli has all the talent in the world, but plays the game as dumb as a rock.

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 5):
He is still young and relatively inexperienced.

Um, he was the first overall pick in the NFL Draft and is in his 4th season. He should be much, much better at this point.

Quoting JA732A (Reply 8):
I think with his time in the NFL, his record is better than his brother's was at the same.

If it is, it is because Eli has had the benefit of a much better team around him.
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deltagator
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:58 pm



Quoting Cumulonimbus (Thread starter):
As far as my pick for the most "Over rated" It would have to be QB Eli Manning. IMO that guy is just plain bad and I think he only starts because his brother is the talented Payton Manning.

Here Here!  checkmark 

Quoting DesertJets (Reply 5):
For a guy who is the starting QB of an 8-4 team, with a decent shot of securing a wild card spot in the playoffs, I don't think you can say Eli is overrated. He is still young and relatively inexperienced.

How long will you use that excuse for him? He's been in the league 4 years now, was a number 1 draft pick, comes from the exhalted royal line of Mannings (though Archie sucked in the NFL), and apparently is so smart that he would have sat out a year and gone to law school than play for the Chargers.

Face it...Eli is a bust and not worthy of sniffing his brother's jock.

I'll give him one thing though...his teams at Ole Miss did something Peyton never came close to doing...beating Florida.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):
Grossman is just the latest in a long line of Florida Gators QBs that have either stunk up the NFL or couldn't even make an NFL squad.

Ain't that the truth. He's done a bit better than most but overall still not good.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
WellHung
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:30 pm



Quoting Cumulonimbus (Thread starter):
my pick for the most "Over rated" It would have to be QB Eli Manning.



Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 4):
Eli Manning and Grossman are two good examples,



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 15):
Here Here! checkmark

To be 'overrated', people have to think the player is better than he really is. I don't know what league you guys are watching, but everyone has been ripping Eli a new one after the Vikings game. When everyone says you suck, you aren't overrated.

A few of the most overrated:

Chad Johnson (at least this year)
Big Ben - solid QB, not the world beater he's made out to be
Adalius Thomas
Shawne Merriman - what happened to the hype after the 'roids went away?
Roy Williams (Cowboys)
Donovan McNabb
Reggie Bush - he'll get there, but not so quick
Shawn Alexander
 
N1120A
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Mon Dec 03, 2007 11:33 pm

Three quarterbacks instantly come to mind here. Eli Manning, Matt Hasselbeck and Tony Romo

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 15):
(though Archie sucked in the NFL)

Archie was a very good quarterback on some really sh!tty teams.
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767Lover
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:18 am

I thought Mike Vick was overrated long before the dog issue.
 
halls120
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:34 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Three quarterbacks instantly come to mind here. Eli Manning, Matt Hasselbeck and Tony Romo

Manning and Hasselbeck - yes. Romo is currently the second highest rated passer in the NFL. How can you say he is overrated?

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Archie was a very good quarterback on some really sh!tty teams.

 rotfl  He spent fifteen years in the NFL. Two pro bowl selections. 125 TD passes, 173 INTs.

"Archie Manning was much more like his son Eli, with obvious ability but inconsistent, prone to mistakes, a tad bit overrated, and unable to make those around him better." "Archie Manning is not in the all-time top 50 in any major category."
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...e_manning_was_not_as_great_as.html

"It seems very likely that if quarterback sacks had been an official statistic throughout his NFL career, there would probably have been more recorded against him than against any other player." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Manning
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
WellHung
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:53 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Three quarterbacks instantly come to mind here. Eli Manning, Matt Hasselbeck and Tony Romo



Quoting N1120A (Reply 14):
he was the first overall pick in the NFL Draft and is in his 4th season. He should be much, much better at this point.

If these are your criteria, what about Alex Smith? He is in his third season, also the first overall pick, and is probably done for the season after throwing 2 td's in 7 games. Of course, no one is saying he's the best QB on the planet, so is he really overrated? What about David Carr - in his 6th year?
 
IADCA
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 12:54 am



Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
Roy Williams (Cowboys)

What, you think a guy shouldn't be in the Pro Bowl for giving up 30 yard completions and getting a penalty created to suit his dirty tackling style?

Seriously, excellent choice. His was the first name that came to mind.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:05 am



Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 11):
Tony Romo.

Enough said.

You're joking, right? Over-rated, on an 11-1 team? Uh, Ok.

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 15):
Face it...Eli is a bust

Eli is still a young quarterback. It's still the toughest position to play in the NFL. How many young QB's are up there now, playing at a high level? Not many. The above-mentioned Romo is one of them. Eli is hitting that time where he has to put up or shut up, so to day. I'm not ready to call him a bust yet. He shows flashes of the talent he has.

What about Phillip Rivers right now?

Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
Big Ben - solid QB, not the world beater he's made out to be

A VERY solid QB. But he's a bust because he doesn't make spectacular plays or something? Most teams in the NFL, save maybe the Pack, Cowboys, Pats, Bengels and the Colts would kill for him. He's a cool customer; he doesn't beat you with mistakes; he can run if he has to; he's almost impossible to bring down with one hit; he has touch on short passes, and can wing it when he needs to; he's accurate; and he runs the offense the Steelers want him to run. He's the guy I said coming out of that draft that I wanted, and I'm standing by that, although Kellen Winslow is becoming such a monster at TE for the Browns, I'm not too upset anymore over that pick. Give me Ben any day.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
Adalius Thomas

Please. I'd take him on my linebacking corp any day. I wanted the Browns to get that guy. He's way better than a guy who is now over rated in Ray Lewls.

Some over-rated players:

Ray Lewis-his best days are past. He's still a formidable linbebacker, but not the beast he was.

Jeremy Shockey-A very good, but not a great tight end. Tell me if you'd take Winslow or Shockey right now?

Mario Williams-Is he over-rated, or simply not as good as Houston had hoped. Had he been 2nd rounder, he'd be considered a very good pick.

Chad Johnson-whole team is off this year. He's still a good ballplayer.


How about some UNDER-RATED players?

-Joshua Cribbs
-TJ Houshmenzadeh (hope that's close  Smile )
-Dallas Clark

Could probably put a Pro-Bowl list out with the underrated team.
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deltagator
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:05 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Archie was a very good quarterback on some really sh!tty teams.

Would just quit with the public felating of all things NOLA for once in your life. It really gets old. What next...Ray Nagin will be starring in Tyler Perry's version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and that he deserves an Oscar?  Wink

Archie averaged 1800 passing yards, 9.6 TD passes, and 13 INTs/year. Where I come from that is a crappy record at best and piss poor coming from a 2nd overall draft pick.
"If you can't delight in the misery of others then you don't deserve to be a college football fan."
 
N1120A
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:06 am



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 19):
Romo is currently the second highest rated passer in the NFL. How can you say he is overrated?

Because he hasn't proved he can put a team on his back. The presence of Terrell Owens, who is awesome despite being a putz, has meant Romo looks a lot better than he is.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 19):
"It seems very likely that if quarterback sacks had been an official statistic throughout his NFL career, there would probably have been more recorded against him than against any other player."

Which goes to show the kind of teams he had around him.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 20):
What about David Carr - in his 6th year?

Absolutely a disappointment.
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Falcon84
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:19 am



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23):
Would just quit with the public felating of all things NOLA for once in your life. It really gets old. What next...Ray Nagin will be starring in Tyler Perry's version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and that he deserves an Oscar?

Archie averaged 1800 passing yards, 9.6 TD passes, and 13 INTs/year. Where I come from that is a crappy record at best and piss poor coming from a 2nd overall draft pick.

A little over-dramateic, DG. Arch WAS a good QB, who WAS stuck with a lousy organization. One anaology who comes to mind is Nolan Ryan, who many think is one of the greatest baseball pitchers of all time, but barely was above .500 in his career, because he played with lousy teams. Archie was the same way. Had he played for a good organization, he would have had much better stats. I won't say he would have been an HOFer like Peyton will be, but he'd be considered a very good NFL QB.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Because he hasn't proved he can put a team on his back.

When you have talent all over the place, you don't HAVE to prove that, dude. You want someone who carries a team-look at LeBron James, or look at Barry Sanders, who played on some crappy teams in Detroit. Those guys HAVE to carry their teams. Guys like Romo and Roethlisberger don't have to, because they have some top-notch talent up and down the roster.
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fllcontinental
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:24 am

TO does not make Romo look better than he is. Did you see them in the thanksgiving game versus the Jets? TO Sucked but romo looked great.
 
huskyaviation
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:28 am



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23):
Archie averaged 1800 passing yards, 9.6 TD passes, and 13 INTs/year. Where I come from that is a crappy record at best and piss poor coming from a 2nd overall draft pick.

You can't really judge Archie by pure numbers--the 1970s were a much different era in terms of passing statistics, and he had an absolutely dreadful team around him, easily one of the worst organizations in NFL history.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Because he hasn't proved he can put a team on his back. The presence of Terrell Owens, who is awesome despite being a putz, has meant Romo looks a lot better than he is.

Just because he hasn't proven he can put a team on his back (which is debatable in and of itself), his record as a starting QB is pretty stellar, and it's not fair to call him overrated because he has a good WR. If that were the case, just about every great QB would be "overrated." How many great QBs didn't have a great WR or two playing with them at some point in their careers? Unitas had Berry, Namath had Maynard (and George Sayer), Bradshaw had Stallworth/Swann, Fouts had a cadre of fantastic WRs, Montana and Young are obviously no-brainers, and the list goes on and on.

Romo has led the Cowboys to an 11-1 record this year, putting up incredible numbers in the process, and took them to the playoffs last year after a very mediocre start under Bledsoe. To me, that is not overrated. And I hate the Cowboys.
 
N1120A
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:28 am



Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 23):

Would just quit with the public felating of all things NOLA for once in your life.

One could say the same about you and UofF. I have liked Archie ever since watching the NFL Films special on him years ago. Further, my hometown doesn't have an NFL team and so the Saints are my team.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):
You want someone who carries a team-look at LeBron James, or look at Barry Sanders, who played on some crappy teams in Detroit. Those guys HAVE to carry their teams.

And those guys are HOFers for a reason

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):
Guys like Romo and Roethlisberger don't have to, because they have some top-notch talent up and down the roster.

Actually, Big Ben has become more and more the focal point, and has answered the bell.
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WellHung
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:29 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
But he's a bust because he doesn't make spectacular plays or something?

 confused  How did the term 'bust' enter in to the conversation re: Ben???

Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
A few of the most overrated:

Big Ben - solid QB, not the world beater he's made out to be

A guy can be good and still be overrated.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):
Please. I'd take him on my linebacking corp any day. I wanted the Browns to get that guy.

That's nice. But when Thomas signed with the Patriots he was supposed to dominate in Belichick's schemes. That has not been the case. He's been good, just not the superman everyone said he would be. Therefore, overrated.
 
Falcon84
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:32 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
And those guys are HOFers for a reason

Not saying Arch would have been a HOFer. He would have been considered a much better QB had he played with a good organization. For most of their existence, the Saints have been a horrible organization, and Arch paid for that. But he had loads of talent, and without him N.O. would have been even less competitive.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 28):
tually, Big Ben has become more and more the focal point, and has answered the bell.

Agree. The game a few weeks ago against the Browns was a good case-in-point. The Browns did a pretty good job in limiting his receivers. Parker had a good, but not a great game, and the Browns sacked Ben 6 times. But Ben made huge plays with his legs, down the stretch, and literally won the game on his legs. He's a big-time talent, and, despite the improvements the Browns have made, it still grates me that I have to watch him in Black and Gold for the next decaded.  gnasher   gnasher 
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N1120A
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:32 am



Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 27):

Just because he hasn't proven he can put a team on his back (which is debatable in and of itself), his record as a starting QB is pretty stellar,

Kurt Warner had great stats for a few years too. He was a product of the system as opposed to being a great QB
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Falcon84
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:33 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Kurt Warner had great stats for a few years too. He was a product of the system as opposed to being a great QB

Guys who are the Player of the Year are usually more than just a product of a system. You have to have the talent. Kurt had the talent, and the talent around him in St. Louis. He was a Pro Bowler when he was healthy and in STL.
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N1120A
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:38 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 30):
He would have been considered a much better QB had he played with a good organization.

And the fact that he is as well regarded as he is has to say something.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 32):
Kurt had the talent, and the talent around him in St. Louis.

Warner could throw a football, sure. He was, however, nowhere near the talent his numbers showed. It is sort of like quarterbacks like Danny Wurffell or Rex Grossman were at Florida.
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halls120
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:45 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 19):
"It seems very likely that if quarterback sacks had been an official statistic throughout his NFL career, there would probably have been more recorded against him than against any other player."

Which goes to show the kind of teams he had around him.

DeltaGator said it best:

"Would just quit with the public felating of all things NOLA for once in your life. It really gets old. What next...Ray Nagin will be starring in Tyler Perry's version of Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and that he deserves an Oscar?

Archie averaged 1800 passing yards, 9.6 TD passes, and 13 INTs/year. Where I come from that is a crappy record at best and piss poor coming from a 2nd overall draft pick."

I lived in New Orleans for several years during Archie's tenure. Went to several Saints games. Manning was a train wreck, living off his admittedly stellar college career.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 25):
A little over-dramateic, DG. Arch WAS a good QB, who WAS stuck with a lousy organization

No, he hit the nail on the head. Manning stats say it all. He sucked.

Quoting HuskyAviation (Reply 27):
Just because he hasn't proven he can put a team on his back (which is debatable in and of itself), his record as a starting QB is pretty stellar, and it's not fair to call him overrated because he has a good WR.

Look at Randy Moss. Hands down one of the leading receivers in the NFL this season. He sucked when he was on the Raiders. You can just as easily say that Brady is making Moss look good as the other way around. Same thing for Romo and TO.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
corocks
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:47 am



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 2):
Rex Grossman!

Doesn't someone have to consider you good in order for you to be 'over-rated'?

My vote goes to Vince Young. It may be only here in the Houston market, but everyone calls into the sports stations and talks about how great he is. Even when he plays like crap, they say he 'willed' the team to win. It is ridiculous. Unless he learns to throw the ball, he is never going to be better than average. Mike Vick was a way better runner than Young and see how long that lasted - NFL players figure out running quarterbacks.

When he scored the winning touchdown against Houston last year in overtime, everyone was like 'see, we should have taken him in the draft'. Big freakin deal, he played like total crap the whole game and made 1 play against one of the worst teams in the NFL. Woopie.

Being on the cover of 'Madden' and being ranked the 30th out 34 quarterbacks (passer rating) in the league screams 'over-rated'.
 
N1120A
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:49 am



Quoting Corocks (Reply 35):
Unless he learns to throw the ball

Vince Young knows how to throw the football. He has one of the best arms in the NFL. It is a matter of designing an offense that takes advantage of his throwing style.

Quoting Corocks (Reply 35):
Mike Vick was a way better runner than Young and see how long that lasted - NFL players figure out running quarterbacks.

That was lasting plenty long, and worth 9 figures, until Vick went and f'ed it up with the dog thing.
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corocks
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 1:59 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Vince Young knows how to throw the football. He has one of the best arms in the NFL.

I mean throw the ball to the players on his team - not the opposition. Two interceptions for every touchdown is not going to get you very far in the NFL.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:04 am



Quoting COrocks (Reply 37):
I mean throw the ball to the players on his team - not the opposition. Two interceptions for every touchdown is not going to get you very far in the NFL.

I don't know of Vince Young's, but to me it sounds like two things could be factors:

1. The receivers are not agile and fast enough to avoid even the weakest of secondaries.
2. He lacks some accuracy and strategy to throw the defense off guard.

Sometimes it's not even the quaterback who's to blame for interceptions, sometimes it's simply because the receivers either can't outrun the opponent's secondary or the opponent's secondary is simply that damn good. I can't judge Vince Young because I've hardly seen Titans games when the NFL is on, but that's the way I see it in this case.
 
steeler83
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:08 am



Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
Big Ben - solid QB, not the world beater he's made out to be

 redflag 

I disagree completely with that one! Sure he's not among the best of the best, but he is by NO means "over rated." 25 TDs, 11 picks, and the second-highest QB rating only to Tom Brady? I don't see how he's over rated. Falcon84 gave good examples of his accomplishments, and that coming from a Browns fan at that!

I don't see anyone saying he's "the world beater." He goes out, makes the plays, and gets the job done. He did that against Miami last week, and he did it against the Bengals last night after a crappy first drive that ended in an interception.

Is he a one-man show? No. and is it his fault that he keeps getting sacked? How about directing that question towards our porous O-line. That is where most of our inconsistencies have been. Our O-line has its good days and bad, and their performance ultimately sends a ripple effect through the rest of the team. They looked piss-poor against the Jets, and it showed. Alan Feneca could not protect against my GRANDMOTHER in a few games!

Well, I guess there is an over-rated person or group of people on the Steelers, and it's the offensive linemen. Our defense showed last night and proved last night why they're the best in the league...
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halls120
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:13 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Quoting Corocks (Reply 35):
Unless he learns to throw the ball

Vince Young knows how to throw the football. He has one of the best arms in the NFL. It is a matter of designing an offense that takes advantage of his throwing style.

 rotfl  First it isn't Archie's fault because the Saints organization sucked, now it isn't Young's fault because the coaches haven't designed an offense to hit his skills.

You don't hold anybody accountable for their own actions, do you?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
IADCA
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:21 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 36):
Vince Young knows how to throw the football. He has one of the best arms in the NFL. It is a matter of designing an offense that takes advantage of his throwing style.

No, he doesn't know how to throw the football, or at least he doesn't do it well. Too many deep balls come down to the inside of receivers that are covered, slants are perpetually on guys' back shoulders, fades are underthrown, he doesn't lead running backs into the flat, and he doesn't know when to throw it away. Those things didn't hurt him as much at Texas, where the receivers were usually open and the protection good (and he could run away from the rush anyway). Now that he doesn't have the talent at WR, people are seeing that he can't get the ball into tight spaces. He's got good coaching and yet he still throws sidearm with poor footwork. He's not a bad QB, but he should be better than he is.
 
corocks
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:22 am



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 40):
rotfl First it isn't Archie's fault because the Saints organization sucked, now it isn't Young's fault because the coaches haven't designed an offense to hit his skills.

You don't hold anybody accountable for their own actions, do you?

I think you must have quoted the wrong person. I did not say anything about Archie Manning and totally hold Vince accountable for his actions. That is why I named him.
 
halls120
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:25 am



Quoting COrocks (Reply 42):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 40):
rotfl First it isn't Archie's fault because the Saints organization sucked, now it isn't Young's fault because the coaches haven't designed an offense to hit his skills.

You don't hold anybody accountable for their own actions, do you?

I think you must have quoted the wrong person. I did not say anything about Archie Manning and totally hold Vince accountable for his actions. That is why I named him.

I was quoting N1120A, who was quoting you.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
corey07850
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:30 am



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 22):

Jeremy Shockey-A very good, but not a great tight end. Tell me if you'd take Winslow or Shockey right now?

The problem with Shockey is the Giants just don't throw to him. When he first started in the league they would throw to him every third down and he would go hunting for someone to hit before picking up the first. Now, they might toss a two yard pass to him on 3rd and 8 and expect a miracle every play. I think it was well into the third quarter yesterday before Eli threw a pass his way.
 
corocks
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:32 am



Quoting COrocks (Reply 42):
He's not a bad QB, but he should be better than he is.

I was 100% with your analysis of his game until this statement. He is tied for dead last in TD/INT ratio. That is bad.

I think he just cannot read defenses. He was a good college quarterback because he could run the ball or hit the wide open receiver as you said. However, his TD/INT ratio was horrible as a college player as well. I just don't think he can play in a pro-style offense. The Titans are trying like crazy to simplify the playbook for him.

At the end of the day being over-rated is about hype vs. actual performance. He is one of the lowest rated quarterbacks in the NFL. He is even below Eli, who has not been 'hyped' since his first year.
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:33 am

Chad Pennington! The guy has no arm and is made of glass!

Quoting DeltaGator (Reply 15):
How long will you use that excuse for him? He's been in the league 4 years now, was a number 1 draft pick, comes from the exhalted royal line of Mannings (though Archie sucked in the NFL), and apparently is so smart that he would have sat out a year and gone to law school than play for the Chargers.

Face it...Eli is a bust and not worthy of sniffing his brother's jock.

Does anyone think Eli has not been that good because the players around him aren't that good? Look at all the drop passes in the game yesterday.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
MSYtristar
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:38 am

Archie Manning's NFL tenure wasn't as successful as many people thought it would be, but considering he played on some BAD teams, he didn't do too bad. He's still a legend in New Orleans, and he's one hell of a sports commentator. I'd rather hear Archie talk sports than anyone else.

Led the league in pass attempts and completions in 1972
Led the NFC in passing yards in 1972
NFC Player of the year in 1978
Pro Bowl 1978 and 1979

BTW, Eli, for all his faults, is not a terrible QB. He's about in the middle of the pack I think. He doesn't have a great receiving corps, and the O line isn't too good.

[Edited 2007-12-03 18:40:10]

[Edited 2007-12-03 18:42:24]
 
IADCA
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:42 am



Quoting COrocks (Reply 45):
I think he just cannot read defenses. He was a good college quarterback because he could run the ball or hit the wide open receiver as you said. However, his TD/INT ratio was horrible as a college player as well. I just don't think he can play in a pro-style offense. The Titans are trying like crazy to simplify the playbook for him.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt given their present lack of talent at RB and WR. But seeing that college ratio makes it a lot worse, and what you say about him not being able to read defenses makes a lot of sense. Some friends of mine who encountered him on a personal level at UT said he was dumb as a rock, and there was a rumor that he got a damn near record-low score on the Wonderlic as well. But a lot of it is irrelevant anyway. There are several "staple" patterns for NFL quarterbacks that he can't throw well against any defense.
 
huskyaviation
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RE: Worst And Most Over Rated Players In The NFL.

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:43 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Kurt Warner had great stats for a few years too. He was a product of the system as opposed to being a great QB

I would argue that he created the system rather than being a product of it.

Quoting IADCA (Reply 41):
He's not a bad QB, but he should be better than he is.

Like Vick, Vince Young is a great athlete who is not a great quarterback.

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