dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
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Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 2:42 pm

So, most of us home owners have seen a decline in the value of our homes. Our house appraisal in October came in 40K less then what we paid to build our house in '99.

I just got our take bill for February.

The state equalized value is 105k HIGHER then the current value (based on the appraisal and comparable sales) and the taxable value is 67k HIGHER.

So, here are my questions:

1. Has anyone here tried to have their taxes adjusted to reflect the actual value of their home? Have you been succesful?
2. On the other hand, we still need to support the communities we live in. They have based their budgets on property taxes and if we all go in and recieve adjustments, our own municiplities would suffer. So is it even worth it as we would be hurting ourselves in the long run?
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:02 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
. Has anyone here tried to have their taxes adjusted to reflect the actual value of their home? Have you been succesful?

Yes and no

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
. They have based their budgets on property taxes and if we all go in and recieve adjustments, our own municiplities would suffer.

Tough, why should I be the only one who suffers?
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2003 3:17 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:06 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
Tough, why should I be the only one who suffers?

My point is, we have great schools and services in our township, and if we pay less aren't we hurting ourselves in the long run?
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luv2fly
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:12 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
My point is, we have great schools and services in our township, and if we pay less aren't we hurting ourselves in the long run?

OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:15 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 2):
My point is, we have great schools and services in our township, and if we pay less aren't we hurting ourselves in the long run?

Sorry for the first curt reply, this is what I should have written.

We all should have to buckle down and do without when the economy takes a hit. By not adjusting the appraisal value of the tax base we are setting ourselves up for taxation on something that does not exist and is setting a bad precedent. For example, lets say the economy really takes a crap and consumer prices drop by 15%. would you still be willing to pay the sales tax on the original value of the products or would you want the sales tax to be on the new lower value?
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
dtwclipper
Posts: 6668
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:22 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):

OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

Because a good school system makes our township one of the most desirable. Although I don't have children, I think it is important to support that aspect of our community.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
We all should have to buckle down and do without when the economy takes a hit. By not adjusting the appraisal value of the tax base we are setting ourselves up for taxation on something that does not exist and is setting a bad precedent. For example, lets say the economy really takes a crap and consumer prices drop by 15%. would you still be willing to pay the sales tax on the original value of the products or would you want the sales tax to be on the new lower value?

Point well taken.

So, may I assume that you were not succesful when you delt with your own property taxes? What reasons did they give you?
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N74JW
Posts: 514
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:22 pm

I think the township should tighten-up on the wasteful spending.

In my township, Police officers take their cars home at night. I do not know if they are on-duty, but the extra expense in gas does not seem justified. I could be wrong. I don't think the mayor needs a car and a driver, he can drive himself to/from the office. That is what I would do if I were mayor.

I raised a little bit of a stink over a Utilities Authority employee who was using the township truck as his own. The tax payers provide the gas money for the F-250 4x4.

My taxes are retarded, 9K per year, but I support the schools although I do not have children in them. I think a good education is essential for everyone. Perhaps seniors and retirees need not pay school taxes. I also have this wacky idea about placing the costs for school text books on the parents of enrolled students.
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luv2fly
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:25 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 5):


Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):

OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

Because a good school system makes our township one of the most desirable. Although I don't have children, I think it is important to support that aspect of our community.

Why should it be on the backs of the people with no kids to support the schools for the ones who do.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
dtwclipper
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:28 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
Why should it be on the backs of the people with no kids to support the schools for the ones who do.

Because a good school district, like the one we have here in Northville, acts as a magnet for potential new residents. This of course will help with home values when the economy improves and home values start to return to their previous levels.
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halls120
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:34 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
1. Has anyone here tried to have their taxes adjusted to reflect the actual value of their home? Have you been succesful?

In my county, the assessed value of my home dropped by 15%, and the taxes were appropriately lower.

The county is currently discussing whether they need to raise the tax rate to make up the difference in revenue.

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 4):
For example, lets say the economy really takes a crap and consumer prices drop by 15%. would you still be willing to pay the sales tax on the original value of the products or would you want the sales tax to be on the new lower value?

No. If prices drop across the board by 15%, the government ought to be able to realize savings in the goods they purchase.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
DucatiRacer
Posts: 239
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:38 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 8):
Because a good school district, like the one we have here in Northville, acts as a magnet for potential new residents. This of course will help with home values when the economy improves and home values start to return to their previous levels.

Furthermore, without an educated populace, we are, as a nation, FUBAR.

Notwithstanding that, however, I would not sit by and pay taxes on a value that does not exist. If your tax appraisal is truly too high, you should definitely protest.
 
CMHSRQ
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:40 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):
Why should it be on the backs of the people with no kids to support the schools for the ones who do.

Did those people go to school themselves?

Education is the key to escaping poverty. The better the education, then generally the better the society.
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dtwclipper
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:45 pm



Quoting DucatiRacer (Reply 10):
I would not sit by and pay taxes on a value that does not exist. If your tax appraisal is truly too high, you should definitely protest.

I just checked with the township. The value assessed reflects 2006-2007 and does not reflect the current value. The only recourse we have is when the new assessment comes out in February of 2008!
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luv2fly
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:47 pm



Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 11):
Education is the key to escaping poverty. The better the education, then generally the better the society.

Trust me that the population of Northville has long since escaped "poverty".
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
Queso
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 3:54 pm

My property appraisal nearly doubled this year! The economy in West Texas is BOOMING because of the price of oil and everyone's property has increased in value.

Even with that, I have a homestead exemption and my property taxes are about $89 for 2008. Not bad.
 
dtw9
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:21 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
1. Has anyone here tried to have their taxes adjusted to reflect the actual value of their home? Have you been succesful?

Yes and Yes, Here's what I did. First I went to the Novi tax assessment office and had them pull my card(thats the card with all the information they have on your house) Then I checked it with my figures and guess what ,they showed my house being 500 square feet bigger than what it is. So in March I went to the city tax tribunal and fought it out with some idiot who didn't want to listen to a thing I had to say.Finally after enough badgering he told me to have the house remeasured by the city. Within 2 days I got a call telling me they were lowering my taxes by 500 bucks. Then the following year they lowered them again. So I would recommend checking your card and make sure everything matches IE:square footage, type of building materials etc. Secondly in Novi I can go to the City Website and pull up each of my neighbors and see what they pay in prop taxes. Do your homework. Pull up comparable"s in your neighborhood and see what the neighbors pay. If they pay less then bitch about it,you might get lucky.
 
Pope
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 5:54 pm

Most Floridian (at least those who have owned their homes for 3 or more years) won't have this situation. The Florida Constitution limits annual increase in property tax valuations to 3% a year unless the property is bought or sold OR an addition is made requiring a building permit. So most Floridians have assessed values that are far less than the market value of their homes even after the bubble burst.

The exceptions are people who bought at the height of the bubble.

My house's assessed value is less than a third of it's market value.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
jetstar
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 16):
Most Floridian (at least those who have owned their homes for 3 or more years) won't have this situation. The Florida Constitution limits annual increase in property tax valuations to 3% a year unless the property is bought or sold OR an addition is made requiring a building permit. So most Floridians have assessed values that are far less than the market value of their homes even after the bubble burst.

The exceptions are people who bought at the height of the bubble.

My house's assessed value is less than a third of it's market value.

A lot of homes and condos in Florida are owned by out of state people who winter in Florida. Because they are not registered as full time state residents, known as homesteaders, the property taxes raises are not capped so it’s the out of state owners property taxes who make up the difference between the residents 3% cap.

Florida property tax rates are based on the purchase price of the property and if the owner is a state resident it is capped at 3% a year, so after owning property for 20 years the assessment is based on the price paid 20 years ago. When the property owner then decides to purchase another property, their new tax rate is on the purchase price of the new property. This stupid law has force many homeowners who want do downsize when retiring to leave the state because their new tax rates sometimes are to high for them to pay.

Fortunately there is now a movement in the state government to do away with this unfair tax structure and go to a reassessment policy every few years and do away with the 3% cap and unfair tax burden on the out of state owners.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:25 pm



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 17):
Fortunately there is now a movement in the state government to do away with this unfair tax structure and go to a reassessment policy every few years and do away with the 3% cap and unfair tax burden on the out of state owners.

Even MORE fortunate is that the 3% cap is constitutional, and therefore not subject to any screwing with by the state government....  Cool
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
Pope
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RE: Property Taxes?

Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:06 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Reply 18):
Even MORE fortunate is that the 3% cap is constitutional, and therefore not subject to any screwing with by the state government....

And even more fortunate is that the Fla Constitution was amended last year to require that ballot initiatives amending the Fla Constitution obtain a 60% popular vote in order to take effect. Previously a simple majority vote was enough to amend the Fla Constitution - thereby giving rise to all sorts of ridiculous issues like pregnant pig rights and the bullet train.

Ironically enough, the amendment changing the requirement from a simple majority to 60% failed to obtain the 60% that would be necessary once the amendment was adopted. But because the amendment was not in effect until it passed, it took effect.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 17):
A lot of homes and condos in Florida are owned by out of state people who winter in Florida.

Too bad. Why should the residents of Florida subsidize services like fire and police protection on structures for people who don't live here year round? The exemption applies to homestead. If it isn't your homestead, then you get no protection. Want the protection, make Florida your permanent residence and the condo your homestead.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
jetstar
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:40 am



Quoting Pope (Reply 19):
Too bad. Why should the residents of Florida subsidize services like fire and police protection on structures for people who don't live here year round? The exemption applies to homestead. If it isn't your homestead, then you get no protection. Want the protection, make Florida your permanent residence and the condo your homestead.

I totally disagree with you on this point, it is the non residents whose taxes are not capped that is subsidizing the homesteaded residents whose taxes are capped.

I am one of these affected by this gross inequality of the tax structure. We have a condo in southwest Florida that we run back and forth to during the winter from Connecticut. Basically we are there for no more than 4 months of the year, and therefore are only using most state and county services for these four months, yet we pay a lot more in taxes than a state resident for less services, for instance no snowbirds have children in the local school system, yet our proportionally higher taxes pay a proportionally larger share for the schools so in essence we snowbirds are subsidizing YOUR local school systems.

One case in point, our adjoining condo neighbor who has lived there full time for 22 years pays less than one third of the taxes than we do, and for a much larger unit than ours. This is a great deal for her but is it fair, the answer is no. And in her case, her husband passed away 2 years ago and she is thinking of downsizing but she cant because by state law were ever she goes her taxes will jump up to a point where she cannot afford, so she is stuck there

In my town in Connecticut, properties are reassessed every 5 years and everyone pays their fair share of taxes, no one get a break based on if your are or are not a state resident.

I know all about homesteading and when I can we will claim Florida as our home state.

I also know about the amendment and there is no way any Florida resident would vote to repeal it just so they can pay much more in taxes. About the only way that amendment will be repealed is if a state or federal court would rule it unconstitutional.
 
freshlove1
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 1:58 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

100% right. If you have kids in the school that is in your area then you pay the taxes. When your kids graduate then you stop or if you have no kids you don't need to pay for a service you are not using. You don't see the colleges in your area sending you a tax bill. If the colleges can make it work with tuition then so can the other schools. Paying school taxes when you are not using the service is a crime.
 
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Aaron747
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:01 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

Because education is the most crucial long-term investment for the security and stability of the republic, and the above attitude is the fastest way to send everything down the toilet and lose our #1 position in the world.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
luv2fly
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:08 am



Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 22):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 3):
OK why do the schools matter if you are not currently using them?

Because education is the most crucial long-term investment for the security and stability of the republic, and the above attitude is the fastest way to send everything down the toilet and lose our #1 position in the world.

No though as a tax payer and a gay man I am tired of paying for the local brats education on my dime.
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N1120A
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:09 am



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
The state equalized value is 105k HIGHER then the current value (based on the appraisal and comparable sales) and the taxable value is 67k HIGHER.

That sucks. Unless that means your taxes go down next year, I would question it.

Quoting N74jw (Reply 6):
Police officers take their cars home at night. I do not know if they are on-duty, but the extra expense in gas does not seem justified. I could be wrong

Well, think of the money the town saves on storage

Quoting N74jw (Reply 6):
I also have this wacky idea about placing the costs for school text books on the parents of enrolled students.

Yes, that is wacky. Education is one of the main reasons government exists.

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):

Why should it be on the backs of the people with no kids to support the schools for the ones who do.

Because having children educated, along with being in a safe place off the street, is in everyone's best interests.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 9):

No. If prices drop across the board by 15%, the government ought to be able to realize savings in the goods they purchase.

Absolutely.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 12):

I just checked with the township. The value assessed reflects 2006-2007 and does not reflect the current value. The only recourse we have is when the new assessment comes out in February of 2008!

It looks like they do things in arrears. I guess you will get the break next year. That isn't such a bad thing then.

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 21):
You don't see the colleges in your area sending you a tax bill

Here is a good example of why you are wrong. When I was at UCLA, the budget for the university was about $1.1 billion. The university collected less than a quarter of that in tuition payments. Where do you think that money comes from?

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 21):
If the colleges can make it work with tuition then so can the other schools.

In pretty much every jurisdiction, if not every jurisdiction, school enrollment through the age of majority is compulsory. That means kids are essentially forced to go to school. You can't make people pay tuition for that. Further, it is in the best interests of society to provide free education to at least the secondary level.
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luv2fly
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:11 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 7):

Why should it be on the backs of the people with no kids to support the schools for the ones who do.

Because having children educated, along with being in a safe place off the street, is in everyone's best interests.

Yeah and I pay higher taxes as I can not file married head of household as being gay I am invisible to that option.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
jetstar
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:14 am



Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 21):
100% right. If you have kids in the school that is in your area then you pay the taxes. When your kids graduate then you stop or if you have no kids you don't need to pay for a service you are not using. You don't see the colleges in your area sending you a tax bill. If the colleges can make it work with tuition then so can the other schools. Paying school taxes when you are not using the service is a crime.

In any local or county budget, elementary education is the single largest slice of the budget, in my town education is 60% of the budget, and this applies to everyone. Taxes are not assessed bases on usage of municipal services or not, everyone pays the assessed tax rate, like it or not.

Colleges are higher education and in most cases are not included in municipal budgets.
 
N1120A
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:19 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 25):

Yeah and I pay higher taxes as I can not file married head of household as being gay I am invisible to that option.

That complaint has nothing to do with education and everything to do with bigotry. Completely different subjects
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
dtw9
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 21):
You don't see the colleges in your area sending you a tax bill
In Michigan part of our tax bill goes to state college funding

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 20):
In my town in Connecticut, properties are reassessed every 5 years
We get an appraised value and tax increase EVERY year

[quote=Jetstar,reply=20]Basically we are there for no more than 4 months of the year, and therefore are only using most state and county services for these four months[/quote

You may not be there, but your condo is. If it is broken into or goes up in flames while your up in Connecticut you'll be glad to be using city services then.

In Michigan if you own more than one home, the homestead school tax is capped at 12 mils. The non-homestead is 24 mils regardless

[Edited 2007-12-04 18:24:51]
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:31 am



Quoting Dtwclipper (Reply 12):
The value assessed reflects 2006-2007 and does not reflect the current value

Yep; at least in Ohio property taxes are post-paid i.e. I'm expecting to get my property tax bill (first ever) sometime soon to reflect the July-December 2007 tax period... Since I didn't close until the middle of August, I got a credit at closing for the property tax amount that was racked up while the previous owners still owned the place.

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 21):
If the colleges can make it work with tuition then so can the other schools. Paying school taxes when you are not using the service is a crime.

As much as I despise most forms of taxation [I have no kids and I'm not looking forward to ever having one], schools are a civic responsibility -- perhaps not the mismanaged bloated bureaucratic mess they are now, but basic education is critical to the country's future.

I don't use the services of the Fire Department (and [crosses fingers] never will) but I still pay for them...

Also, colleges -- large private research institutions such as MIT and Stanford included -- get boatloads of taxpayer dollars indirectly -- through government grants to programs, government-backed financial aid [grants and scholarships] to individuals, research grants property/sales/income tax breaks. Also don't forget the community colleges and state universities are subsidized to a huge extent by taxpayer dollars -- it's just taken from a larger pool of people (state or county wide rather than city)

I think one of the times I reviewed the statistics (this would have been about 4 years ago) tuition paid less than 30% of the operating costs of the state university I was looking at; the rest was state taxes and federal grants.

Lincoln
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freshlove1
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:39 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
You can't make people pay tuition for that. Further, it is in the best interests of society to provide free education to at least the secondary level.

Fine, but if I have no kids in the system then why should I be paying for someone elses kid to go to school, this is not my problem nor should my tax money go toward it? No way anyone who does not have kids should be paying taxes to the schools weather it be public or in some states the colleges. If that is indeed true about taxes going to help our colleges then that is another problem that people with no kids are paying for. Simple as this...no kids....no payment of taxes for public schools/colleges.......You got kids then you pay.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:56 am



Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 30):

Fine, but if I have no kids in the system then why should I be paying for someone elses kid to go to school, this is not my problem nor should my tax money go toward it

See what happens to our country if that happens.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:11 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 27):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 25):

Yeah and I pay higher taxes as I can not file married head of household as being gay I am invisible to that option.

That complaint has nothing to do with education and everything to do with bigotry. Completely different subjects

Well you tell me how you like paying for services that you will never take advantage of, also let me know when you get discriminated by the Government yet still expected to pay your "FAIR" share.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:17 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):
Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 30):

Fine, but if I have no kids in the system then why should I be paying for someone elses kid to go to school, this is not my problem nor should my tax money go toward it

See what happens to our country if that happens.

Yes this from an American that not proud enough of the USA to display the flag on a website.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
N1120A
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:23 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):

Well you tell me how you like paying for services that you will never take advantage of, also let me know when you get discriminated by the Government yet still expected to pay your "FAIR" share.

Hey, it is well known that I disagree with all discrimination against anyone, particularly gay people. That doesn't mean there should be a tax exemption.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
freshlove1
Posts: 1245
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RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:27 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 33):
Yes this from an American that not proud enough of the USA to display the flag on a website.

I have the American flag on my posts, always have. OK back to the issue. If you have kids its your responsibility to get the funds to pay for their schooling not rely on others to put your kids through the school system. You don't see the gas company sending me a bill to pay, why? because my house is electric, just like you don't see my kids in school, why? I have no kids so why should I pay for a service that I am not using? Plain and simple...you pay for the services you use and those of us who don't use them don't pay for them.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:31 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 34):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):

Well you tell me how you like paying for services that you will never take advantage of, also let me know when you get discriminated by the Government yet still expected to pay your "FAIR" share.

Hey, it is well known that I disagree with all discrimination against anyone, particularly gay people. That doesn't mean there should be a tax exemption.

So financial discrimination is acceptable.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4309
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:34 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):
Well you tell me how you like paying for services that you will never take advantage of,



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 32):
still expected to pay your "FAIR" share.

He has a valid point. This goes for anyone who doesn't have children for any reason. Has nothing to do with being gay.
You can't cure stupid
 
dtw9
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Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:09 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 3:47 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 36):
So financial discrimination is acceptable.

No its not. But somewhere down the road somebody else who was gay or didn't have children paid for your education
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:05 am



Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 38):
Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 36):
So financial discrimination is acceptable.

No its not. But somewhere down the road somebody else who was gay or didn't have children paid for your education

You have apoint there, I'll give you that.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:17 am



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 36):

So financial discrimination is acceptable.

No, it isn't. You should pay taxes like everyone else.

Quoting Freshlove1 (Reply 35):
If you have kids its your responsibility to get the funds to pay for their schooling not rely on others to put your kids through the school system.

No, it is the responsibility of the government, which we are all a part of whether we have kids or not.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 37):

He has a valid point. This goes for anyone who doesn't have children for any reason. Has nothing to do with being gay.

But he brought up the marriage benefits he can't receive, and that was where being gay came into it.

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 38):

No its not. But somewhere down the road somebody else who was gay or didn't have children paid for your education

Not to mention all the people who did have children and had part of their money pay for your education. Or perhaps those who only had 1 or 2 children. See the problem here?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
jetstar
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:22 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
Here is a good example of why you are wrong. When I was at UCLA, the budget for the university was about $1.1 billion. The university collected less than a quarter of that in tuition payments. Where do you think that money comes from?

Endowments, many colleges, including state universities have huge endowments and the interest from these investments help defray a large share of the expenses

Quoting Dtw9 (Reply 28):
You may not be there, but your condo is. If it is broken into or goes up in flames while your up in Connecticut you'll be glad to be using city services then.

Fire and police are only small parts of a municipal budget. Education is the largest share.

I am not questioning the costs of municipal services and the taxes that go to pay for these services. What I don’t like in Florida is that I have to pay a much larger share of taxes because I am not a resident of Florida. Taxes have to be assessed, just assess them equally and everyone pays their fair share, irregardless if you are there part time or full time.

My brother owns a ski house in Vermont that he uses mostly on weekends in the winter, his tax rates are the same as any other homeowner in his town even though he is a part time resident.
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:25 am



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 41):

Endowments, many colleges, including state universities have huge endowments and the interest from these investments help defray a large share of the expenses

Endowments are part of it, but funding from the State and Federal governments is a huge piece.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 41):
What I don�t like in Florida is that I have to pay a much larger share of taxes because I am not a resident of Florida. Taxes have to be assessed, just assess them equally and everyone pays their fair share, irregardless if you are there part time or full time.

Then you should move to Florida and change the law. At least you derive SOME benefit. Take a look at what you pay for in rental car taxes some day.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:20 pm



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 20):
I totally disagree with you on this point, it is the non residents whose taxes are not capped that is subsidizing the homesteaded residents whose taxes are capped.

I would think that an unoccupied structure requires greater police and fire protection than one that is occupied.

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 20):
I am one of these affected by this gross inequality of the tax structure. We have a condo in southwest Florida that we run back and forth to during the winter from Connecticut. Basically we are there for no more than 4 months of the year, and therefore are only using most state and county services for these four months, yet we pay a lot more in taxes than a state resident for less services, for instance no snowbirds have children in the local school system, yet our proportionally higher taxes pay a proportionally larger share for the schools so in essence we snowbirds are subsidizing YOUR local school systems.

First of all, you're not subsidizing my local school system any more than I am. My daughter attends private school therefore, I'm paying twice for her education.

Second, by not living here full time, you spend less money on sales taxes which also fund general government services. Yet I'm sure you expect the police department to keep people out of your home, the fire department to keep the structure from burning down, the state EPA to ensure that the water and air aren't polluted, the DOT to ensure the roads to and from your condo are adequate, the prison system to house any criminals that were apprehended by the police, and the list goes on.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:41 pm



Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
1. Has anyone here tried to have their taxes adjusted to reflect the actual value of their home? Have you been succesful?

No, but in this current climate you should have a successful try.

Quoting Dtwclipper (Thread starter):
2. On the other hand, we still need to support the communities we live in. They have based their budgets on property taxes and if we all go in and recieve adjustments, our own municiplities would suffer. So is it even worth it as we would be hurting ourselves in the long run?

Plenty of municipalities did not spend their revenue windfalls of better services. They went and increased pay and benefits for their workers, to levels that are much higher than in comparable private work. At the same time, they also 'invested' in the mortgage business, and the stories are coming out that some of these funds are suffering from devaluation of the underlying assets.
 
jetstar
Posts: 1374
Joined: Mon May 19, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:41 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 43):
First of all, you're not subsidizing my local school system any more than I am. My daughter attends private school therefore, I'm paying twice for her education.

This is true for anyone who sends their children to private schools in this country, it’s your elective decision to spend the extra money for your kids education. No municipal government that I know of allows taxpayers to deduct their children’s private education from their property taxes.

Quoting Pope (Reply 43):
Second, by not living here full time, you spend less money on sales taxes which also fund general government services. Yet I'm sure you expect the police department to keep people out of your home, the fire department to keep the structure from burning down, the state EPA to ensure that the water and air aren't polluted, the DOT to ensure the roads to and from your condo are adequate, the prison system to house any criminals that were apprehended by the police, and the list goes on.

And on the other hand when I am not there for almost 8 months of the year, I am not polluting the air, adding to the sewerage system, using water, adding to the traffic commuting to work or placing any burden on the municipal infrastructure that my higher taxes than yours are paying for all year round.

An again as I said before, police, fire and other municipal services are a small part of any municipal budget, education and debt are the largest. In my town in Connecticut, 60% of the budget goes to education, the rest goes for municipal services, capital improvements, debt and other miscellaneous charges.

I am not saying my taxes should be lower because I am not there all year round, my tax rates should be the same as everyone else’s tax rates, like they do it everyplace else in the country. Only Florida has this inane screw the non-resident property tax structure.

In a lot of counties in southern Florida, income from snowbirds and visitors in the winter season are enough to support businesses for the rest of the year and thus create a lot of jobs. I have talked to some restaurant and store managers and they tell me they barely survive during the off season, and make most of their money during the winter season.

And during the winter, the state takes in an enormous amount of money from sales, hotel and car rental taxes, enough that income for the tourism industry and snowbirds is the single largest generator of income for the state after the sales tax because Florida has no state income tax.

We don’t let our condo go unused during the off season, we go there every 6 to 8 weeks for a few days. During the off season we can go into any restaurant for dinner and see less than half the tables occupied, yet during the winter the same restaurants have long lines waiting for tables.

This also goes for other businesses, we bought all our furniture, appliances and carpeting from local stores, paid the sales taxes to the state and therefore added to the economy by supporting local business and thus creating jobs. In some counties in southeastern Florida, snowbirds account for a large portion of their income for the counties and businesses, take away this income and these counties and cities would have financial difficulties, because they take in more from the snowbirds in their higher taxes than it costs to provide the services for them.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:52 pm



Quoting Jetstar (Reply 45):
This is true for anyone who sends their children to private schools in this country, it’s your elective decision to spend the extra money for your kids education. No municipal government that I know of allows taxpayers to deduct their children’s private education from their property taxes.

Isn't it your elective decision to have two homes?

Quoting Jetstar (Reply 45):
And on the other hand when I am not there for almost 8 months of the year, I am not polluting the air, adding to the sewerage system, using water, adding to the traffic commuting to work or placing any burden on the municipal infrastructure that my higher taxes than yours are paying for all year round.

I don't know about you but my water and sewer fees are based on actual usage. My traffic impact is based on housing impact fees that are uniform for everyone.

If you want the benefits of being a Floridian become a Floridian.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:03 pm



Quoting Pope (Reply 46):
Isn't it your elective decision to have two homes?

...in a state that has a tax burden that is disadvantageous to your use of the property?

I guess my question is along the lines of "was the airport there before or after you bought the home (condo)?" If that was a change that took place after you bought, I can completely understand why you'd be peeved; buf it that was the status quo when you bought...become a Floridian then vote for change, or sell and move to a place with a more sane tax structure.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting Lincoln (Reply 47):
...in a state that has a tax burden that is disadvantageous to your use of the property?

I guess my question is along the lines of "was the airport there before or after you bought the home (condo)?" If that was a change that took place after you bought, I can completely understand why you'd be peeved; buf it that was the status quo when you bought...become a Floridian then vote for change, or sell and move to a place with a more sane tax structure.

Lincoln

There has never been an increase in the rate charged to non-homestead property separate from homestead property. Instead IIRC an exemption REDUCING the tax burden on homestead property was enacted in the 1970's (don't quote me on the year). Therefore, whether the exemption was created before or after he owned the property, he is paying no more than he was paying before the exemption came into existence.

In business this happens all the time. The State of NJ imposes a tax on all bulk chemicals brought into the state yet exempts the tax from applying to any chemicals brought into a location that was in business as of 1976 / 1978? As a chemical distributor that wasn't formed until 1982 my company can't take advantage of this exemption. But does that mean I'm taxed unfairly? No. I know the rules and I chose to participate in the market place. But I can't say I wish I was taxed as something that I'm not.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
adh214
Posts: 346
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 1999 6:07 am

RE: Property Taxes?

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:06 pm



Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 23):
No though as a tax payer and a gay man I am tired of paying for the local brats education on my dime.

As another gay man, I am happy to pay the thousands of dollars in property taxes yearly to send other people's children to school.

Why?

Because we ALL benefit from educated children and ultimately educated adults.

Educated adults drive our economy by inventing, creating and producing. The money we pay for education today comes back many times in the form of economic growth. 2007's taxes are really paying for productive workers in 2015 and beyond.

As for college education, we pay taxes for that also. I pay property taxes to the Dallas Community College District. Also, some of my sales taxes goes to fund, the University of Texas and other state universities. Again, this is not a fee for service arrangement but rather an investment in the future economic growth of our nation.

Frankly, I get a bit tired of politicians wanting to make everything a fee for service arrangement. There are certain things that we as a people can do better collectively. There are also certain overriding standards that we apply to our society. For example, we pay a nominal amount of tap water. But the water utilities are funded by the city, state and federal governments are various levels. This means that all of our citizen have access to clean drinking water all of the time. Would you advocate that the full cost of tap water be charged for every glass? If so, what are you going to do if someone can't pay? Tell them "tough luck, I guess you will just be dehydrated." We have set a standard that everyone will have water and we ask everyone to contribute to that goal by paying taxes regardless of how much they consume. We are all in this together and we all need to contribute to the greater good of our nation.

Andrew

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