B747forever
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F1: Off Season Thread 3

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:04 pm

Hi.

Thought it is better that we start a new thread.

Latest news is that Alonso have signed with Renault for a record salary.

Lets continue here.!!!


B747forever.
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waterpolodan
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:23 pm

From the old thread:

Quoting Cornish (Reply 221):
But right now 2008 looks like it will be a complete farce. The opening races and what occurs will decide whether i bother to tune in or not after near 30 years of following the sport. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but i suspect i'll be proved right......

I think you're being overly paranoid. Sure, the Renault ruling borders on total farce, but I just don't see Ferrari doing anything to hurt Massa's chances of winning the world championship in any way unless he is many points behind Kimi after a few races. Even when Barichello was a clear number 2 behind Schumi, Rubens had the exact same equipment and every opportunity to put himself in a position to win races (minus the occasional team ordered pullover), but he rarely did because MS was much faster than him. In Felipe's case, Kimi is probably slightly more consistent but definitely no quicker, so I think we're going to see the same sort of situation we had this year, with both of them taking poles and winning regularly and the driver with the most points with a race or two left being favored by the team. If Massa does a good job next year, they won't get rid of him in favor of Alonso. Why would they? That would be a collosal waste of money, as they'd be paying a much higher salary just to get a driver who is probably no better than Felipe, and someone that may not even get along with Kimi while there is a great professional relationship between their 2 current drivers. I expect both of them to remain with Ferrari until at least 2010, and Alonso to remain at Renault where he will get soundly beaten by Mclaren, BMW, and Ferrari next year.

The racing next year will be fantastic, I'm sure of it, unless Ferrari pulls an F2004 card out of their hat and builds a world beater. I'm a huge Ferrari fan, but everyone knows that would be awful for the sport, especially after such a great year in 2007 on the track. I really think BMW, Ferrari, Mclaren, and Renault will all have race winning cars, and I have my fingers crossed that Toyota and Red Bull can make some big steps forward too.
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:35 pm

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/12/11/the-silly-season-continues/

A Nice breakdown of all the Drivers for Next year...

However F1-live seems to believe that Kovalainen is still looking at Toyota for a seat...and the list does not include R. Schumacher.


We'll see what happens.
 
cornish
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Tue Dec 11, 2007 5:05 pm



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 1):
but I just don't see Ferrari doing anything to hurt Massa's chances of winning the world championship in any way unless he is many points behind Kimi after a few races. Even when Barichello was a clear number 2 behind Schumi, Rubens had the exact same equipment and every opportunity to put himself in a position to win races (minus the occasional team ordered pullover), but he rarely did because MS was much faster than him. In Felipe's case, Kimi is probably slightly more consistent but definitely no quicker, so I think we're going to see the same sort of situation we had this year, with both of them taking poles and winning regularly and the driver with the most points with a race or two left being favored by the team. If Massa does a good job next year, they won't get rid of him in favor of Alonso. Why would they? That would be a collosal waste of money, as they'd be paying a much higher salary just to get a driver who is probably no better than Felipe, and someone that may not even get along with Kimi while there is a great professional relationship between their 2 current drivers. I expect both of them to remain with Ferrari until at least 2010, and Alonso to remain at Renault where he will get soundly beaten by Mclaren, BMW, and Ferrari next year.

Here in Europe, pretty well every seasoned F1 observer believes Alonso will be driving a Ferrari in 2009 - thats why his contract has an exit clause after one year. Its well known that de Montezemelo wants Alonso and Kimi as his dream pairing. Remember that Massa is seen as being in the Todt camp. It would be unfair on Massa for sure but unless he absolutely blitzes 2008, he's likely to be out of a Ferrari seat at year end. Kimi is now settled at Ferrari so I don't expect him to have the poor first half he did this season.

You say Alonso is no better than Massa but i disagree. While Alonso has gone a long way down in my estimation after his antics at McLaren, most F1 people agree that despite all the silly mind games, he produced probably the best two drives of any driver last season when he blitzed everybody in Italy (during the depths of the spy scandal) and hunted down Massa to win at the Nurburgring. With Scumacher gone, there was no other driver on the grid who could have won those races in that manner this year (althoguh i expect Hamilton to in future). As I said he's really gone down in my estimation this year, but i acknowledge he is still one hell of a driver when in the mood. Thats what made the silly games so annoying - he didn't need to do it. Had he not psyched himself out against Hamilton and made silly mistakes he would likely have been world champion instead of Kimi.

You mention Reubens and equipment at Ferrari. Well he was there for a few years and so of course he got the same equipment. But he was never going to look like he would beat Michael over a season and played a good No.2. The last thing Ferrari would want would be to have Massa take the No.1 to another team in 2009.

And if you don't think that a team would get rid of a new world champion for another driver then look to past years. Schumacher was forced into a corner to retire while battling for the championship because of Kimi's signing. Williams announced they'd be replacing Damon Hill midseason the year he was champion, with Frentzen. Mansell at Williams too the year he was Champ (by Prost for the next season).

Maybe i am being overly paranoid but recent events over this last season give me good reason to look at things this way. Ferrari were allowed to keep the results of a win by an illegal car that was protested. illegal fuel in Brazil would normally be punished, Mclaren and Renault spy verdicts, the FIA threatening journalists with court for negatively reporting them, the list goes on.......

Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 2):
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/12/11/the-silly-season-continues/

A Nice breakdown of all the Drivers for Next year...

However F1-live seems to believe that Kovalainen is still looking at Toyota for a seat...

Well if he doesn't get the McLaren seat he's fast running out of options.

Its also worth noting that Super Aguri may not make it to the first race. They have big financial troubles and are shedding staff. Honda may not help to bail them out, having enough troubles of their own to deal with.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:10 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 2):
However F1-live seems to believe that Kovalainen is still looking at Toyota for a seat

Think that is true. Kovalainen needs more than just one option. But his prime choose is of course McLaren.
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sudden
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Tue Dec 11, 2007 6:56 pm



Quoting B747forever (Thread starter):
Thought it is better that we start a new thread.

Are you using a 50K dial-up modem or what!?

Quoting Cornish (Reply 3):
Honda may not help to bail them out, having enough troubles of their own to deal with.

They sure have a lot of work to do, but I really think it will go in the right direction now when Brawn have joined them. Now they can invest the money they have where it is needed.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 3):
Here in Europe, pretty well every seasoned F1 observer believes Alonso will be driving a Ferrari in 2009 - thats why his contract has an exit clause after one year. Its well known that de Montezemelo wants Alonso and Kimi as his dream pairing. Remember that Massa is seen as being in the Todt camp. It would be unfair on Massa for sure but unless he absolutely blitzes 2008, he's likely to be out of a Ferrari seat at year end. Kimi is now settled at Ferrari so I don't expect him to have the poor first half he did this season.

I also think that Massa is now under pressure to perform against him team mate, who also is the champ. Massa is not in a good position in regards to that. All new gadgets etc. will first be on Kimis car. Massa have experience with this already from the time with Schumi, so I can not really see him being to happy about it.

Kimi is also allowed to test the new car from day 1 this season. 2006 he needed to wait until his contract ended with Mclaren. Another big advantage for him.

Alonso going to Ferrari. Well, I think it all boils down to how the 2008 season develops. Lets say he is being offered a seat for 2009 later next year, and he is fighting for the title. Would he still go? Would he gain anything? Makes me wonder.


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egmcman
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:53 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):
Think that is true. Kovalainen needs more than just one option. But his prime choose is of course McLaren

McLaren have in indicated that will be either Pedro de la Rosa or Gary Pafffett according to the current edition of Autosport.
 
flyboysp
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:19 am

While not directly related to the F1 off season, i found it quite funny.

Schumacher: Germany's fastest taxi driver

Michael Schumacher may well be the fastest taxi driver in Germany after the seven-times world champion shocked a cab driver by taking over the wheel in order to be on time for a flight.

Schumacher, 38, flew into the aerodrome at the Bavarian town of Coburg on Saturday and took a taxi to the village of Gehuelz, 30 kilometres away, to pick up a new puppy - an Australian Shepherd dog called "Ed".

But when the former Formula One ace, plus his wife and two children, caught a taxi back to the airport they were short on time and, afer a polite request, cab driver Tuncer Yilmaz watched in wonder as Schumacher took the wheel.

"I found myself in the passenger seat, which was strange enough, but to have "Schumi" behind the wheel of my cab was incredible," Mr Yilmaz told the Muenchner Abendzeitung.

"He drove at full throttle around the corners and over-took in some unbelievable places."

Mr Yilmaz was well rewarded for the unusual journey - on top of the 60 euros (88 US dollars) fare, he was also given a 100 euros (146 US dollars) tip.

Schumacher's spokesperson Sabine Kehm later confirmed the story.

The German track ace, who now lives in Switzerland, retired from Formula One in 2006 after a glittering career and, despite test drives for his old team Ferarri, has insisted there is no chance of a return to racing.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=334923
#proudtobeabulldog
 
B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:50 am



Quoting Sudden (Reply 5):
Are you using a 50K dial-up modem or what!?

No. But maybe other use a 50K dial-up modem, so it is better to start a new thread.

Quoting Egmcman (Reply 6):
McLaren have in indicated that will be either Pedro de la Rosa or Gary Pafffett according to the current edition of Autosport.

Damn, I really hope for Kovalainen.

Quoting Flyboysp (Reply 7):
Schumacher: Germany's fastest taxi driver

LOL. But it was a really nice tip.
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flyboysp
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:53 am



Quoting B747forever (Reply 8):
LOL. But it was a really nice tip.

I would have settled with a video or a photo of what happened.
#proudtobeabulldog
 
B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:57 am



Quoting Flyboysp (Reply 9):
I would have settled with a video or a photo of what happened.

True, but maybe the cab driver didn't have any camera with him. How would he know that Schumi was going to take him on a rid.
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BlueElephant
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:20 pm



Quoting Flyboysp (Reply 7):

Schumacher: Germany's fastest taxi drive

My question is, Why was he rushing for a flight...I thought he had a Private Falcon 2000
hmmm..
 
sudden
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:48 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 11):
My question is, Why was he rushing for a flight...I thought he had a Private Falcon 2000
hmmm..


Maybe he was not allowed to use it as the airo package was identical to another Falcon 2000!?
(He does have his own jet by the way)


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bill142
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:41 am

Fisichella seems to be getting disparate. He's come out saying he'll take a test spot with a top team.
 
cornish
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:16 pm

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 13):
Fisichella seems to be getting disparate. He's come out saying he'll take a test spot with a top team.

Erm not exactly - he said he'd consider it. I assume you picked that up off the F1 Live article

Here's Autosport's interpretation yesterday from the interview where he said his objective was to race with Force India next year.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64359

Jeez I really don't know why anyone bothers using F1 Live. A bottom-feeding website that just trawls around picking up stories from others, after everyone else has reported it.  

[Edited 2007-12-13 04:18:33]
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
sudden
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:17 pm



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 13):
Fisichella seems to be getting disparate. He's come out saying he'll take a test spot with a top team.

Not much else to choose from if you ask me. Although a bad car, he didn't really shine lat season.


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B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:53 pm



Quoting Bill142 (Reply 13):
He's come out saying he'll take a test spot with a top team.

'

Wonder if he even will get a test seat with a top team????
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scrubbsywg
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:27 pm

mclaren have released an apology stating among other things that ferrari information was more widely disseminated through the team, and that development has stopped on three seperate systems of the 2008 car. Good on them for apologizing, but i can't help but wonder how much more we will find out about how much they know and used.

http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2967838,00.html
 
B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:44 pm



Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 17):

Really good by McLaren to apologize, but I wonder why it have taken so long time. They should do this weeks ago.


http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071213163522.shtml

Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 17):
but i can't help but wonder how much more we will find out about how much they know and used.

True. Feels little late to apologize now. Maybe they are ding this now to hide something???
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waterpolodan
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:56 pm

Just curious... anyone still think it was unfair for the FIA to have excluded Mclaren from the 2007 constructor's championship? I know before the facts came out plenty of people were saying that it was just a pro-ferrari witchhunt with unfounded claims, but I think it has become quite clear by now that they did indeed breech the rules in a major way and did not deserve to win the constructor's title. On a related note, I still think Renault should have been punished in some way too, do you guys think the integrity of the sport is more important than the participation of one major constructor? Apparently Renault made it clear that if they were given a heavy penalty a la Mclaren, they would withdraw from Formula 1, and that certainly was a factor in the FIA's decision whether they admit it or not. It's great to have Renault in the series, but it's also a shame to see the FIA's integrity further damaged by not punishing them.
 
BlueElephant
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:10 pm



Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 19):
Just curious... anyone still think it was unfair for the FIA to have excluded Mclaren from the 2007 constructor's championship?

I don't think they should have been Excluded..Docked Points, and Fined would have been good enough....However I still feel that Ferrari should have been punished as well...

And I still feel that Renault should be punished as well...McLaren went ahead and told the FIA when they found out they had some issues...and they got punished heavily....Renault Tells the FIA they had all this data too...and get away scott free..

Its not fair and its not Ethical.


As a McLaren fan, I appreciate the letter of Apology.

In Other F1 News...

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071213174731.shtml

the Second Driver for McLaren should be known within a week.
 
cornish
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:20 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 20):
I don't think they should have been Excluded..Docked Points, and Fined would have been good enough....However I still feel that Ferrari should have been punished as well...

And I still feel that Renault should be punished as well...McLaren went ahead and told the FIA when they found out they had some issues...and they got punished heavily....Renault Tells the FIA they had all this data too...and get away scott free..

Its not fair and its not Ethical.

[checkmark} Couldn't agree more.

There needs to be more consistency. and allowing Ferrari to have a say in the proceedings that decide whether McLaren's 2008 car contains Ferrari data is going to prove to be a complete nightmare at the start of the new season.....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:12 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 20):
the Second Driver for McLaren should be known within a week.

That is great, cant wait!!!!

Quoting Waterpolodan (Reply 19):
anyone still think it was unfair for the FIA to have excluded Mclaren from the 2007 constructor's championship?

No, I think it was fair. They used the info, then they need to get punished. But I think it is unfair that Renault didn't get any punishment.
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BlueElephant
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:08 pm

More light on the McLaren Saga....and hopefully an end to it all

Apparently...FIA might be deciding to drop their February meeting with McLaren...

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071213195034.shtml
 
B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:19 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 23):
Apparently...FIA might be deciding to drop their February meeting with McLaren...

If that is true, I think that we will see a end on this spy saga, Would be great for all.
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scrubbsywg
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:52 pm

damn, they redacted EVERYTHING in the FIA report on the scrutineering of the mclaren car.

its painful to read, i just wish we got the whole thing, but i know that wouldnt be possible. Its funny to read, as they could be talking about a bolt!
 
Stealthz
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:35 pm

Having read much of the media reporting on the latest developments in the McLaren Spygate saga I can only wonder how this turn of events developed.
Did the FIA inspections really turn up much in the way of Ferrari influenced design? (It is hard to glean much from sentences composed almost entirely of multiple iterations of [redacted-confidential])
Did McLaren realise that if their car had 4 road wheels and a steering wheel somewhere near the centre it would be considered a Ferrari derivative*.
If they realised this did they decide the only course of action would be to fall on one's own sword and throw themselves at the mercy of the FIA?
On the surface this seems to have been a winning move. It allows the FIA to take the high moral ground, heaven knows after turning a blind eye to actual rule infractions and the Renault rulings moral high ground has not been too plentiful at Place da la Concorde. It allows McLaren to get on with what they do best.
One also has to wonder what pressure was brought to bear by other powerbrokers within the sport, it has been said, more than once, that "without Ferrari there is no Formula 1" The opposite is also true, there is no Formula 1 with ONLY Ferrari. With all due respect to the other teams it is only McLaren that has been able to take the fight to Ferrari with any regularity in 2007, was anyone looking forward to a year of Scarlet 1-2 finishes?

Cheers

* If the MP4/23 complied with all of the FIA technical rules it could hardly be based on a Ferrari, heaven knows it is a long time since any Ferrari complied!  Wink
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scrubbsywg
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:53 pm

Heikki is in as the other mclaren driver...

http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2973652,00.html
 
B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:59 pm



Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 27):
Heikki is in as the other mclaren driver...

Finally!!!

That is great news. Lets hope that he will succeed with McLaren.

Here you have the article from f1-lve:


http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/071214164143.shtml
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cornish
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:10 pm

A good decision for both parties. McLaren get a young quick driver, who is also easy going and not likely to rock the boat in the way Alonso did. Kovaienen meanwhile will be greatful to McLaren to give him a chance after Renault dumped him late in the day with very little other opportunities left for him.

Despite McLaren's history of equality for their drivers, affter 2007 it wouldn't surprise me if Heikki has a No.2 contract and that despite that he jumped at the chance to sign it.
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
legoguy
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:33 pm

Fecking Brilliant Big grin Made my day. I would love to see Heikki outpacing the Renaults next year.

I came across this article which puts forward the possible reason why Heikki was dropped from Renault...

http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3463_2963733,00.html

Heikki Kovalainen was reportedly jettisoned by Renault in favour of Nelson Piquet junior because Fernando Alonso was wary of the Finn's pace.
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B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:48 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 29):
it wouldn't surprise me if Heikki has a No.2 contract and that despite that he jumped at the chance to sign it.

It wouldn't surprise me also, if Hamilton get the status as number 1 and Hekki as number 2. Will this be the first time McLaren have a no 1 and no2 driver???
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B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:54 pm

Work Hard, Fly Right
 
cornish
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:04 pm



Quoting Legoguy (Reply 30):
Heikki Kovalainen was reportedly jettisoned by Renault in favour of Nelson Piquet junior because Fernando Alonso was wary of the Finn's pace.

Common knowledge. It was felt that Heikki would'nt be an ideal partner for Alonso by either Alonso or Flavio. Mind you last time he had a complete roookie as a team mate.......
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:08 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 33):
Mind you last time he had a complete roookie as a team mate.......

But he will have a rookie as team mate next season also.
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scbriml
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:09 pm



Quoting BlueElephant (Reply 23):
More light on the McLaren Saga....and hopefully an end to it all

Apparently...FIA might be deciding to drop their February meeting with McLaren...

Well, about [redacted expletive] time! The FIA really [redacted expletive] me off with their [redacted expletive] biased [redacted expletive] support for those [redacted expletive] at Ferrari. Now I [redacted expletive] well hope we can look forward to a really [redacted expletive] exciting season next year.

I really wish that [redacted expletive] Mosely and his [redacted expletive] little [redacted expletive] Ecclestone would just [redacted expletive] and leave the sport alone.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
cornish
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:15 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 34):
But he will have a rookie as team mate next season also.

I think you misunderstood my English. My point was last time he had a rookie team mate.... (look what happened).

Quoting Scbriml (Reply 35):
Well, about [redacted expletive] time! The FIA really [redacted expletive] me off with their [redacted expletive] biased [redacted expletive] support for those [redacted expletive] at Ferrari. Now I [redacted expletive] well hope we can look forward to a really [redacted expletive] exciting season next year.

I really wish that [redacted expletive] Mosely and his [redacted expletive] little [redacted expletive] Ecclestone would just [redacted expletive] and leave the sport alone.

I hope that's the end of the saga, but I suspect you might have to [redacted expletive] before the start of next season....
Just when I thought I could see light at the end of the tunnel, it was some B*****d with a torch bringing me more work
 
legoguy
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:19 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 33):
Common knowledge. It was felt that Heikki would'nt be an ideal partner for Alonso by either Alonso or Flavio. Mind you last time he had a complete roookie as a team mate.......

Strangely enough, before now, I had never really thought of the reason why Renault dumped him, I was just happy he was most likely moving to McLaren. Now that he has moved I am only thinking now what a stupid move on behalf of Renault.

However I have a feeling that Nelson Piquet Junior has similar potential to that Hamilton had in his first year, as in 2006, the GP2 battle was between Hamilton and Nelson Piquet. I would expect NPJ to challenge Alonso (if Renault allow him to) during the course of 2008 once he becomes accustomed to the car.
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B747forever
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:23 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 36):
think you misunderstood my English. My point was last time he had a rookie team mate.... (look what happened).

Okey, I see.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 37):
I would expect NPJ to challenge Alonso

True, but it will never happen, because Renault will not let him doing it.
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cornish
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:27 pm



Quoting Legoguy (Reply 37):
However I have a feeling that Nelson Piquet Junior has similar potential to that Hamilton had in his first year, as in 2006, the GP2 battle was between Hamilton and Nelson Piquet. I would expect NPJ to challenge Alonso (if Renault allow him to) during the course of 2008 once he becomes accustomed to the car.

The general view based on their careers so far, especially in GP2 was that Piquet could be utterly dominant when he had the car absolutely right and was at the front. In those cases he could drive off into the distance. But he wasn't regarded as anywhere near as good a racer as Lewis and not really an overtaker. so don't expect a Lewis style pass of Kimi at Monza, but if Renault get the car working well and quick then he could do well. But he is very confident and won't want to sit in Alonso's shadow - especially given Hamilton's debut last season.
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:33 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 39):
But he is very confident and won't want to sit in Alonso's shadow -

He will be forced to do that. He will never be able to do a Lewis Hamilton debut. Remember that Alonso is the first driver and that he is the second driver.
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cornish
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:37 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 40):
He will be forced to do that. He will never be able to do a Lewis Hamilton debut. Remember that Alonso is the first driver and that he is the second driver.

Yes but he doesn't have to like it. And he can be a second driver and sit right on Alonso's ass without actually overtaking in order to make his point. He's got the confidence/arrogance of his dad for sure. But I don't think he will be anywhere near the threat that Lewis was as I don't think he's as good a driver anyway.
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:39 pm



Quoting Legoguy (Reply 30):
Heikki Kovalainen was reportedly jettisoned by Renault in favour of Nelson Piquet junior because Fernando Alonso was wary of the Finn's pace.

If thats the truth...Then I have two thoughts on the matter.

A. Eyebrow man's a real wimp, and wants a clear shot at a title....and I hope he's surprised when Piquet does something wicked and takes everyone by surprise.

B. Renault is dumb for sending away a perfectly decent and very good driver...in favor of of one really good driver...
If i was Boss at Renault...I'd keep Kovalainen alongside Alonso...would make for some great driving for the team.
Plus I read/heard somewhere long ago..that Kovalainen and Alonso get along really well?


Congrats to Kovalainen....and I wouldn't be surpirsed to see him win a race next season.

I hope he and Hamilton get along really well...and do some fantastic driving for the team.
 
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:43 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 41):
But I don't think he will be anywhere near the threat that Lewis was as I don't think he's as good a driver anyway.

Agree with you. He will not be able to do a first season as Hamilton did.

Quoting Cornish (Reply 41):
Yes but he doesn't have to like it

But even if he dislike it, he needs to follow the contract. and it says that he is a second driver.
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:47 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 43):
But even if he dislike it, he needs to follow the contract. and it says that he is a second driver.

There are instances in the past of drivers who have ignored contracts. Rene Arnoux's winning of the French GP ahea dof Alain Prost in renaults being perhaps the best example.

Or he could race into the distance and then slow down ovbviously to make his point. Or get one car between him and Alonso in order to make it impossible for him to slow. All he needs to do is be quick enough to get under Alonso's skin as we've seen what effect that has now.....
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:50 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 44):
Or he could race into the distance and then slow down ovbviously to make his point

That is true, but do he dare to do that.???

Quoting Cornish (Reply 44):
All he needs to do is be quick enough to get under Alonso's skin as we've seen what effect that has now.....

That is his only chance!!!

Quoting Cornish (Reply 44):
Rene Arnoux's winning of the French GP ahea dof Alain Prost in renaults being perhaps the best example.

Can just imagine how angry Post was after that!!!!
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cornish
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:55 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 45):
That is true, but do he dare to do that.???

Who knows? But look at it another way. Its impossible to be quite so dutiful in qualifying. Given he would get comparable equipment, he just needs to outqualify Alonso regualrly, even if he cedes to him the race he's made his point and it would e impossible for the team to get him to slow down in qualifying without seriously compromising him and the team's' chances.
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:02 pm



Quoting Cornish (Reply 46):
Its impossible to be quite so dutiful in qualifying

Bingo!!!


There we have it. In the qualifying he can show how fast he is, and there he can beat Alonso.
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andaman
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:17 pm

Congrats Kovalainen, he's great driver and such a nice person, compairing to grumpy Raikkonen.
Kovalainen will be the fourth Finnish McLaren-driver, the first three all are World Champions - wishing all the best for him!  Wink

BTW, this year also the F1 Power Boat World Champion comes from Finland.
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RE: F1: Off Season Thread 3

Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:20 pm

Absolutely great for Heikki. Can't wait for the next season.  Smile

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