D L X
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Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:32 pm

Mike Huckabee: "Don't Mormons believe that Jesus and the devil are brothers?"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071212/ap_on_el_pr/romney_huckabee


WOW. If it's true that he said that, I think it will come back to haunt him more than it helps him.
 
redngold
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:32 pm

They do:

Here is an LDS (Mormon) document:
http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochure...s_Lucifer_the_Brother_of_Jesus.pdf
Here is an anti-Mormon document:
http://www.letusreason.org/LDS31.htm
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fumanchewd
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:34 pm



Quoting Redngold (Reply 1):
Redngold From United States, joined Mar 2000, 6729 posts, RR: 44

I don't see what that has to do with his politics.
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redngold
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:36 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 2):
I don't see what that has to do with his politics.

1. It was in response to a speech Mitt Romney made last week.
2. My response was to the implied question:

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
If it's true

I am not making a political statement, just providing a reference.
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JGPH1A
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:39 pm



Quoting Redngold (Reply 1):
Here is an anti-Mormon document:
http://www.letusreason.org/LDS31.htm

From the "Let Us Reason" ministries. Hehe yersss - and irony is what the maid does to your shirts  biggrin 
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fumanchewd
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:40 pm



Quoting Redngold (Reply 3):
Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 2):
I don't see what that has to do with his politics.

1. It was in response to a speech Mitt Romney made last week.
2. My response was to the implied question:

Right. But it is an irrelevant statement stated by Huckabee that shows how he is plying for votes from other christians. It is not relevant to politics and it doesn't matter if it is true or not. Therefore I responded that it doesn't matter. The real issue is Huckabee's political games.

[Edited 2007-12-12 15:42:29]
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UH60FtRucker
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:01 am

So honestly... does this guy have a legitimate shot? So he wins the bible thumpers in Iowa... but NH??? I'm from Mass... and I remember NH being fairly open minded, and free of extreme religious influence. I can't imagine they would vote for such a religiously motivated candidate.

So if he wins Iowa, do we have something to worry about? Personally I hope not, because I honestly don't know if I could vote for him in the general election.

-UH60
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Ozair
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:15 am



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
So if he wins Iowa, do we have something to worry about? Personally I hope not, because I honestly don't know if I could vote for him in the general election.

Which him are you talking about?

Quoting Redngold (Reply 1):
Here is an LDS (Mormon) document:
http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Brochure...s_Lucifer_the_Brother_of_Jesus.pdf
Here is an anti-Mormon document:
http://www.letusreason.org/LDS31.htm

That's some great references you have there.....  Yeah sure I take it that you didn't read the bottom statement on the website,
"FAIR is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR, and should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice."

Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
WOW. If it's true that he said that, I think it will come back to haunt him more than it helps him.

I agree, all polling so far has shown that most voters are being put off by this silly sniping. I'd love to see a presidential race that focused on improving the country and not stupid he said she said throw backs.
 
Boeing744
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Thu Dec 13, 2007 4:34 pm

Personally, I don't care what Mr. Romney believes, as long as it doesn't affect his politics. He could be Mormon, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc., and that would be just fine with me, as long as he doesn't try to run his country on those views. If I were an American, I would be basing my vote on the person's ideaologies, not their religion. With that said, I believe that this was an inappropriate comment from Huckabee, especially considering it has been said here that those are not the views of the Church of LDS.

On a side note, while I don't like either of them (lets just say I'm not the biggest fan of the Republicans), I think Romney is far better than Huckabee.
 
redngold
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Thu Dec 13, 2007 9:20 pm



Quoting Ozair (Reply 7):
"FAIR is not owned, controlled by or affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All research and opinions provided on this site are the sole responsibility of FAIR, and should not be interpreted as official statements of LDS doctrine, belief or practice."

Just because there is a disclaimer does not mean that it is a disreputable source. I have disclaimers on my website saying that I am not affiliated with the City of Cleveland or Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, but there are people who consider it the original standard for a CLE spotting site. Also, a person who is experienced in LDS theology may put on the disclaimer as an act of humility. You're way off.
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QFA380
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Thu Dec 13, 2007 10:04 pm



Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 10):
especially considering it has been said here that those are not the views of the Church of LDS.

Trust me, those are the beliefs of LDS.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 10):
as long as it doesn't affect his politics

How do you know it wouldn't? The Mormons will be telling him what to do in the event of him taking the oval office. They might edit the Book of Mormon just to get what they want from him.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 10):
I would be basing my vote on the person's ideaologies, not their religion

Ideologies and religion go hand in hand in a person of faith. The religion gives a person their ideologies so you should be basing your vote in part on their religion.
 
Superfly
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:06 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 6):
So honestly... does this guy have a legitimate shot? So he wins the bible thumpers in Iowa... but NH??? I'm from Mass... and I remember NH being fairly open minded, and free of extreme religious influence. I can't imagine they would vote for such a religiously motivated candidate.

You are correct about NH but remember, Pat Buchanan won NH in 1996 too. He wasn't exactly "open minded". Buchanon isn't that much different than Huckabee. Also this time around, the GOP feild has a lot more moderates and their votes are being split between Rudy, McCain, Romney and that other guy.
Huckabee is filling the void for the religious right. Huckabee could do very, very well in South Carolina, his homestate of Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana, Oaklahoma and a few other Bible-Belt states.
I wouldn't be so quick to write him off.
Just a few months ago, Huckabee was just an astrick * and trailing Ron Paul. Now he is tied with Rudy in 1st. place.
He could also make an impact if he choses to run as a third party candidate.
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yowza
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:11 pm

This guy is a tool. He is constantly making stupid statement. Scary to think he's still in the running.

YOWza
 
D L X
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:05 am



Quoting QFA380 (Reply 12):
The religion gives a person their ideologies so you should be basing your vote in part on their religion.

What part of Mormonism doesn't fall within the ideologies of Baptists AND is within the job description of President?
 
QFA380
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:27 am



Quoting D L X (Reply 15):

What part of Mormonism doesn't fall within the ideologies of Baptists AND is within the job description of President?

What do Baptists have to do with anything?

All I was saying is that a religion can influence a leader a great deal. The average Mormon is much more dedicated to the religion than your average Catholic or Presbyterian so they may have a harder time separating church and state. I have no doubt that things would happen should he become President. Having a member of your church as the most powerful person on earth can do wonders for a company, organisation church such as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
 
Boeing744
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Fri Dec 14, 2007 6:25 am



Quoting QFA380 (Reply 12):
How do you know it wouldn't? The Mormons will be telling him what to do in the event of him taking the oval office. They might edit the Book of Mormon just to get what they want from him.

I never said it wouldn't. I said "as long as". I never made any claim that I thought it wouldn't.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 12):
Ideologies and religion go hand in hand in a person of faith. The religion gives a person their ideologies so you should be basing your vote in part on their religion.

You're right, that's usually true. Again though, I did say that I wouldn't care about the person's religion as long as it didn't effect their leadership.

One anomaly I can think of off the top of my head was Pierre Trudeau. He was a staunch Catholic, but one of the leading voices in abolishing the sodomy laws in Canada, in a time that this was quite controversial.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Fri Dec 14, 2007 1:36 pm



Quoting D L X (Thread starter):
WOW. If it's true that he said that, I think it will come back to haunt him more than it helps him.

It was a stupid statement. Romney is running as a candidate, not the entire Mormon faith, and it sounds like Huckabee is just trying to get some ink/coverage by stiring some s*** up. While we're at it, how about all the other candidates making statements about the tenets of the religions of all the other candidates. Would that make any more sense, our have anything less to do with the real political issues at hand?

Just think, we have 11 more months of this crap before the elections. I wonder if there are any vacancies on the ISS?
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mbmbos
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:12 pm



Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 16):
Romney is running as a candidate, not the entire Mormon faith, and it sounds like Huckabee is just trying to get some ink/coverage by stiring some s*** up

Both of these candidates have actively courted the evangelical right and fundamentalist Christians by playing on their supposed piety. Both candidates have played the religion card to their advantage and both have been pretty dodgy when it comes down explaining to the public how their religious views and their churches hold influence over policy. I don't have much sympathy for either of them - they can reap what they sow.

One can hope that they both end up so bloody from their attempts to grab votes from the religious right that neither gets the Republican nomination.
 
D L X
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:31 pm



Quoting QFA380 (Reply 14):
The average Mormon is much more dedicated to the religion than your average Catholic or Presbyterian so they may have a harder time separating church and state.

I don't think that is true, but even if it were, The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints is not running for President -- Mitt Romney is. So, the only relevant question is whether Mitt Romney has a hard time separating church and state, and evidence in Massachusetts (a very Catholic state) suggests that he has no problem at all.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 14):
Having a member of your church as the most powerful person on earth can do wonders for a company, organisation church such as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

I don't buy that either. We didn't see a rise or kickback in the Catholic Church under JFK, and I don't think the Jehovah's Witnesses saw a big uptick under Eisenhower. Let alone all the protestants that have held the presidency and didn't do wonders for their church.

In fact, there's only one president I can recall that had a problem separating church and state, and he's on his way out.
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:38 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 18):
I don't think that is true, but even if it were, The Church of Jesus Christ and Latter Day Saints is not running for President -- Mitt Romney is. So, the only relevant question is whether Mitt Romney has a hard time separating church and state, and evidence in Massachusetts (a very Catholic state) suggests that he has no problem at all.

My thoughts exactly..

Quoting D L X (Reply 18):
I don't buy that either. We didn't see a rise or kickback in the Catholic Church under JFK, and I don't think the Jehovah's Witnesses saw a big uptick under Eisenhower. Let alone all the protestants that have held the presidency and didn't do wonders for their church.

Yet, methinks the media (and candidates other than Romney) continue to bring Romney's faith up just so they'll have an "issue" they can "discuss", never mind that it has nothing to do do with anything. Pretty sad commentary on our society at-large if we can't have learned something 45+ years after the JFK/Catholic debate from the 1960 elections...  Sad

Quoting D L X (Reply 18):
In fact, there's only one president I can recall that had a problem separating church and state, and he's on his way out.

Thank God! (Pun intended)
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Superfly
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Fri Dec 14, 2007 8:57 pm



Quoting MBMBOS (Reply 17):
One can hope that they both end up so bloody from their attempts to grab votes from the religious right that neither gets the Republican nomination.

I doubt Huckabee or Romney will get the GOP nomination. Huckabee however could be building up support and name recognition to run as a third party conservative candidate. Huckabee has no loyalty to the Republican party and the Republican party is not loyal to him.
Huckabee could be positioning himself as an alternative candidate and give reason for the religious-right to show up to the polls if the choices are Hillary vs. Rudy.

It would be great if Huckebee wins the Republican nomination because that could mean a President Hillary Clinton.
Go Mick Huckabee!  Silly
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D L X
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:15 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
It would be great if Huckebee wins the Republican nomination because that could mean a President Hillary Clinton.

The way it's looking, more like President Obama.
 
jmc1975
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:34 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 21):
Quoting Superfly (Reply 20):
It would be great if Huckebee wins the Republican nomination because that could mean a President Hillary Clinton.

The way it's looking, more like President Obama.

Or a President Mike Huckabee! The country is far more likely to elect a Baptist pastor before it elects a repulsive she-devil or some guy with a middle name of Hussein.
.......
 
CastleIsland
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Sun Dec 16, 2007 10:47 pm



Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 22):
The country is far more likely to elect a Baptist pastor before it elects a repulsive she-devil or some guy with a middle name of Hussein.

Which just goes to show what is truly wrong with this country:

Lack of knowledge
Prejudice
Lack of knowledge
Selfishness
Lack of knowledge...

...One would think that almost everyone who purports to be a Christian was never actually taught what it means.
"People don't do what they believe in, they just do what's most convenient, then they repent." - Dylan
 
Superfly
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:19 am



Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 23):
Which just goes to show what is truly wrong with this country:

Lack of knowledge
Prejudice
Lack of knowledge
Selfishness
Lack of knowledge...

...One would think that almost everyone who purports to be a Christian was never actually taught what it means.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 22):
Or a President Mike Huckabee! The country is far more likely to elect a Baptist pastor before it elects a repulsive she-devil or some guy with a middle name of Hussein.

Hey, I have no problem with Huckabee taking the fall for the mistake in Iraq that Bush started.
Mike Hackabee would be a one-term President and a Lame Duck from day one. Half the Republicn party doesn't like him, big business doesn't like him nor does he have allies in Congress to get any of his agenda passed. The end result would be a weak one-term President that has zero influence over the Democratic Congress. A President Huckabee probably wouldn't be such a bad thing afterall. I'll take Huckabee over Rudy anyday!
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halls120
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:04 am



Quoting QFA380 (Reply 10):
Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 10):
I would be basing my vote on the person's ideaologies, not their religion

Ideologies and religion go hand in hand in a person of faith. The religion gives a person their ideologies so you should be basing your vote in part on their religion.

I would never cast my vote based on what religion a candidate professes to follow. I cast my vote based on what the candidate stands for, which can - and in most cases does - differ greatly from what his or her religion professes to believe.

Quoting QFA380 (Reply 14):
All I was saying is that a religion can influence a leader a great deal.

And it can be nothing more than window dressing designed to get the candidate elected.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
jmc1975
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:31 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 24):
Half the Republicn party doesn't like him, big business doesn't like him nor does he have allies in Congress to get any of his agenda passed. The end result would be a weak one-term President that has zero influence over the Democratic Congress.

And that is what is wrong with our country these days. Too much partisan politics and not enough common sense to fight the enemies of freedom that you and I enjoy.
.......
 
OPNLguy
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RE: Huckabee: Mormons, Jesus, And The Devil

Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:10 pm



Quoting CastleIsland (Reply 23):
...One would think that almost everyone who purports to be a Christian was never actually taught what it means.

Funny you mention that. I think of it whenever any non-Mormon makes the statement that Mormons aren't Christians and then wonder, is he in any position to truly judge? Isn't that really up to Someone else?
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