johnboy
Posts: 2560
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 1999 9:09 pm

Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:50 pm

Happened to see this story while cruising the net. Anybody know have any further info?

http://www.sgn.org/sgnnews35_50/page2.cfm
 
azstar
Posts: 410
Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 5:25 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:56 pm

If you read the article, this gentleman sounds like a respectable, conservative, honest individual. The story is very believable. If it happened exactly the way it is described in this article, Southwest definitely should apologize, and reprimand the flight attendant involved. They might apologize, but they will definitely not even discuss the issue with the flight attendant. They never do.
 
JETnyc
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 9:13 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:56 pm

Dang more bad news for SW....
 
pilotboi
Posts: 711
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:01 pm

Wow...Seems like the flight attendant knew what she was doing was wrong; knew that this guy was going to complain; and tried to accuse him before he could accuse her. I'm just surprised the supervisor immediately took the FA's side and didn't ask any questions of the passenger. Won't be good for WN if this gets any more press.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:07 pm

It seems like WN is really discriminating their customers nowadays. Not very good PR like JETnyc metioned, I agree. Some people, like that FA, needs to get a clue.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:12 pm

That is a shame. I did that to one of my friends too once who almost collapsed dut to a severe illness! Since there were no pillows in the train I let him rest on my legs.

Stupid b%¤ch!
 
EMB170
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:16 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:29 pm

I know that no airline is perfect and that no airline is completely rotten, but this just turns my stomach. I hope the passenger sues and the flight attendant and supervisor are both fired. There's no excuse for this type of behavior. EVER.
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sh0rtybr0wn
Posts: 373
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:36 pm

Sounds like hate crime from the FA from Southwest and not official SW policy. But the FA was working for SW so they have some liability if they get sued.
Its 2007 and who really cares what anybody's sexual orientation is anyway? Who cares? Everybody deserves to be treated with respect; period. Getting the police involved was a disgrace. Those 2 guys weren't trouble makers and its obvious the FA called the Police to preempt any complaint those 2 might eventually make. Police denying bathroom access is another indignity.
It seems like there is a total lack of civility these days in America and Airports / Travel really bring out the worst behavior in people.
 
sevenair
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:45 pm

They should throw the book at the FA. If she was being racist, she would be in deep trouble, so why should any other form of discrimination be treated differently. It really is terrible.
 
davescj
Posts: 1105
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:53 pm



Quoting Sevenair (Reply 8):
They should throw the book at the FA.

Remember, in the US there is no provision for sexual preference protection in civil rights law (as opposed to race, religion, national origin). As such, I doubt WN can do much but write her up.

IF she filed a false police report, that is a different discussion.

The supervisior -- remember -- is supposed to give benefit of the doubt to the employee. If customer vs employee, the supervisor will tend to believe the employee.

If a police report is filed, the police must investigate. No matter how dumb it sounds, they must investigate.

Should be interesting to see where this goes.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9811
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 3:56 pm



Quoting Davescj (Reply 9):
Should be interesting to see where this goes.

I agree. I had a thought: I wonder if the Seattle Times has written anything or heard anything on this.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
sevenair
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:00 pm



Quoting Davescj (Reply 9):
Remember, in the US there is no provision for sexual preference protection in civil rights law (as opposed to race, religion, national origin). As such, I doubt WN can do much but write her up.

IF she filed a false police report, that is a different discussion.

Whilst I am not going to discuss whether or not the USA should have such protections on an aeroplane forum (although I do have an opinion on the matter) - this is a disgrace to be treated in such a way.

Wasting police, and airline time should be reason enough to get rid.
 
SA7700
Posts: 2936
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:18 pm

I find this story absolutely appalling. The FA is obviously a bitter, judgemental hag.

So much for WN's Customer service commitment

The mission of Southwest Airlines is dedication to the highest quality of Customer Service delivered with a sense of warmth, friendliness, individual pride, and Company Spirit.
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
EMB170
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:16 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:18 pm



Quoting Davescj (Reply 9):
Remember, in the US there is no provision for sexual preference protection in civil rights law (as opposed to race, religion, national origin). As such, I doubt WN can do much but write her up.

Depends on two fronts...WA law (don't know if they have hate crimes legislation or not) and WN policy. Assuming WN is like most airlines, it actually should say in black and white (no pun intended) in the training manual that discrimination is not allowed based on sexual orientation. Assuming so, she could be written up and (hopefully) fired for breaching company policy.
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davescj
Posts: 1105
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:19 pm



Quoting Sevenair (Reply 11):
this is a disgrace to be treated in such a way.

Agreed.

Quoting Sevenair (Reply 11):
Wasting police, and airline time should be reason enough to get rid.

Would have to look at the contract. You'd be amazed some of the interesting work rules that have creeped into US labor contracts in the past. I don't know what Southwest's say, I dont' know what FAA regs say, so I can't speculate.

And again -- remember -- the airline would have to PROVE the FA did something illegal. Without that proof, they can maintain a copy for record and watch for a pattern. But this is about it. Otherwise, Southwest could be facing a wrongful termination lawsuit.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:22 pm

Just speechless.

WN owes them, at the very least, an explanation.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 7):
Its 2007 and who really cares what anybody's sexual orientation is anyway?

 checkmark 

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 7):
Who cares?

Unfortunately, some people do. Usually busy-bodies and people with far too much spare time on their hands.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 7):
Everybody deserves to be treated with respect; period.

The absolute 100% truth.
You can't cure stupid
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:24 pm

From the article:

"Swink was replaced by a woman holding a crying 18-month-old boy with an ear infection."

If it were me, I would have then politely asked the flight attendant if they had any reading material on the plane. Such as the Gay Times or Advocate.
International Homo of Mystery
 
SA7700
Posts: 2936
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:38 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:33 pm



Quoting EMB170 (Reply 13):
WA law (don't know if they have hate crimes legislation or not)

Sexual orientation discrimination was outlawed in Washington State when HB1515 was passed in 2005.
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:40 pm



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 18):
Sexual orientation discrimination was outlawed in Washington State when HB1515 was passed in 2005.

Since the routing of the flight was FLL-BNA-SEA (according to the article), then WN have something to worry about.
International Homo of Mystery
 
FlyUSCG
Posts: 520
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RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:42 pm

I think we should all wait and see here. I read this article and there are just too many questions in my mind. (well maybe just a couple big ones). First of all: the article is written and published on a gay news site (bias much?). Second: the story is written by the man himself (hardly what I would call impartial). Then of course he claims to overhear her say "fag". He claimed himself that he must have heard her wrong. I don't know, maybe he heard "BAG"? She's tucked away in the galley on an airliner in flight, you can't normally hear what they are talking about. Then a family with children all needed to sit together yet only a mother holding an infant sits next to him? What happened to the rest of the family? Then there are his obvious opinions such as: she "slammed" the drink down. Really? she reached OVER TWO people all the way to the window seat to slam your diet coke down? give me a break. I've never seen a flight attendant reach all the way to the window seat to set a drink down. So thats a big to me right there. Then there is the "garbage" incident. So this man apparently knows what this woman is thinking? How about he is a "straightaphobe" and turns everything people say into something against gays? (oh wait, gay people are always the victim, they can do no wrong right?). I don't know. there was just too much here to question. So go ahead and flame me (no pun intended) but whatever, I don't care.
Go Trojans! Fight On!
 
davescj
Posts: 1105
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 1:46 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:46 pm



Quoting SA7700 (Reply 18):
Sexual orientation discrimination was outlawed in Washington State when HB1515 was passed in 2005.

Would the WA law apply? Remember, this was an interstate flight. Where did the violation occur?

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
silentbob
Posts: 1540
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:47 pm



Quoting Davescj (Reply 14):
And again -- remember -- the airline would have to PROVE the FA did something illegal. Without that proof, they can maintain a copy for record and watch for a pattern. But this is about it. Otherwise, Southwest could be facing a wrongful termination lawsuit.

Filing a false police report is most certainly a crime.

Quoting SA7700 (Reply 18):
Sexual orientation discrimination was outlawed in Washington State when HB1515 was passed in 2005.

It sounds like the discrimination happened before they landed in Washington. As such, Washington state law does not apply.
 
sevenair
Posts: 1496
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:51 pm



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 23):
(oh wait, gay people are always the victim, they can do no wrong right?).

Not sure where this train of thought is coming from.

We get hanged in some countries, beaten to death in others (i.e. UK), and shot in others. We get thrown in prison, or get parts of us cut off.

So yes - I would say gays are often the victim. And yes, everyone can do wrong.

To merely exist, and be penalised and abused because of this is compeltely out of line. And is not what living in a free country should entail.

We just want to get on with our lives. We don't necessarily want to walk round the streets holding hands, or to have our relationships celebrated. I think what we all want is to be treated as a human, with dignity.

I suggest you open up a topic on Non Aviation. Great place for gay bashing.
 
floorrunner
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2004 7:11 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:51 pm



Quoting Davescj (Reply 9):
Remember, in the US there is no provision for sexual preference protection in civil rights law (as opposed to race, religion, national origin). As such, I doubt WN can do much but write her up.


Actually Southwest could probably do a lot especially if it vioaltes their own policy. They can fire her for violating their customer service policy, regardless of what laws exist or don't exist.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:51 pm



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 23):
I think we should all wait and see here.

 checkmark 

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 23):
How about he is a "straightaphobe" and turns everything people say into something against gays?

Not quite. Misconstruing something does not make someone a ___phobe.

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 23):
gay people are always the victim, they can do no wrong right?

In your world, possibly.
You can't cure stupid
 
EMB170
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:16 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:01 pm



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 23):
I think we should all wait and see here. I read this article and there are just too many questions in my mind. (well maybe just a couple big ones). First of all: the article is written and published on a gay news site (bias much?). Second: the story is written by the man himself (hardly what I would call impartial).

I'm sorry, but discounting a story of homophobia because it was written on a gay news site is in and of itself offensive. Gay news media don't blindly publish every allegation of discrimination that comes their way; we must also remember that the victim in question was the news editor of said publication. What is he supposed to do, not use the tools at his disposal to speak out for change and for the good of our community?

Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 23):
How about he is a "straightaphobe" and turns everything people say into something against gays? (oh wait, gay people are always the victim, they can do no wrong right?).

Sounds like you have a problem with gay people to me...what makes you think all gay people want to do is complain? Have you ever even thought about the fact that gays and lesbians don't get a fair shake in this country??
Gay bashing on a forum that is in the line of work of many GLBT employees. How thoughtful  Yeah sure
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ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flig

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:02 pm

"The SGN was unable to contact Southwest Airlines before press time."

????

Really? What press time? Was this story so vital and the journalist/victim so worried that someone else would scoop his own, PERSONAL story that it be put out in Issue 50, Volume 35 rather than Issue 51 Volume 35 and thus they couldn't contact WN in time to get some more information/response/apology? Honestly? I know craphole journalists at CNN and FoxNews use this excuse to spread propaganda, but usually those stories have some pressing time issue involved in them. This one didn't.

So was there an agenda to make the actions of one individual into a slam on the whole airline? And thus if they actually got in contact with WN and found them apologetic and conciliatory, would it make the story less powerful?

I've dealt with F/As who've behaved like that without it being directed toward anyone gay. The F/As were just jerks who took any complaint by a customer as a personal attack. I've seen them do the same type of thing to people who dared asked for help putting a bag into the bin! They didn't call the cops, but honestly, that part of the story is unbelievable if the customer was truly "100% civil and cooperative." That part of the story is somehow made up. Either the pax never got questioned by cops, or he was abusive during the exchange with the F/A.

I think the F/A needs her meds checked for overreacting and possibly some reprogramming, but the story reads as very overblown.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flig

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:10 pm



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 30):
Really? What press time? Was this story so vital and the journalist/victim so worried that someone else would scoop his own, PERSONAL story that it be put out in Issue 50, Volume 35 rather than Issue 51 Volume 35 and thus they couldn't contact WN in time to get some more information/response/apology?

Hold on, everyone! The jump-to-conclusions hats are out!

How do you know if they tried to contact Southwest or not and they just didn't respond before press time? Usually when I've received calls from the press, the message has been left with when their deadline for the story is. His disclaimer is just the usual line journalists use when they haven't yet received a response.
International Homo of Mystery
 
GT4EZY
Posts: 511
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 9:35 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:22 pm

Str8 or gay, pax can be sh*ts when they want to be. Whichever airline you fly, there will always be exceptional, good and bad crew. Just take whatever you want from that.
Proud to fly from Manchester!
 
davidlc3
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:30 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:27 pm

A couple of comments:

1. WN was the last of the major airlines to extend domestic partner benefits
2. Since opening their eyes WN has become one of the biggest buyers of ad space in the gay media (The Advocate almost always has a full page ad for WN...) Silly to seek business then tick off the customers that you are seeking!
3. I sent the news link to the travel guy at USAToday in hopes that he'll get it some mainstream publicity.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13772
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:38 pm



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 31):
His disclaimer is just the usual line journalists use when they haven't yet received a response.

And it is intellectually and ethically lazy. It has been the standard mantra over the last 5 years or so, ever since internet news became the primary source of "truthiness" out there.

Again, what about this story required it be filed for the Dec 14th edition of this weekly newsletter? What disservice would have been done to the world if it was filed on Dec 21st and WN had a chance to tell their side of the story or "make it right" by the passenger. Isn't the point of journalism to get the whole story? Is there a conflict of interest in the journalist being the victim, and then writing the story with only his POV? Did this journalist even talk to any other pax on the flight in preparation for this article? No quotes from anyone, so I doubt it, and his only reference was that the person next to him didn't complain, so obviously everything was fine, according to him.

I'm not saying this guy wasn't harassed. I'm saying his journalism is poor. And I'm not saying he's the only one who's journalism is poor. The mainstream press takes this same copout when they are afraid that either a) they will get "scooped" for the story and someone else will get to spread the false information or b) they don't want to actually get a response because it might damage the story.

This one smacks of option b. After all, if WN says: we will investigate and we are sorry, gives the guy free flights, and gets back to him that the F/A has been suspended, what kind of story would that be?  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:42 pm



Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 23):
I think we should all wait and see here.

 checkmark  I don't think there's any question that he didn't get very good service. That in no way implies that the FA was homophobic.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
tinpusher007
Posts: 890
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:03 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 5:48 pm

I don't get WN, they want to promote themselves as the 'fun' and 'free spirited' airline with their casual F/A uniforms and jokes even during safety announcements. All the while they go on kicking women off their planes for dressing "inappropriately" and now this. They have always enjoyed the most growth, stability and financial performance of any US airline and now they seem to be going out of their way to piss people off and drive them away.
"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
 
khobar
Posts: 1336
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:12 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:13 pm

Wow, almost everyone jumps on WN as being guilty. Ya don't think this story might be just slightly biased? I mean, a gay man giving an exclusive story about gay victimization to a gay publication???

Seems there's a lot of prejudice here, given how quick some are to judge WN.
 
articulatexpat
Posts: 101
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:01 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:22 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 35):

You know, most people who discount or minimize reports of homophobia have probably never been on the receiving end of it. Waiting to let the facts come to light is wise, but if even half of the story what this FA reportedly did was accurate, it's still unacceptable. Would a man and woman travelling together and acting concerned and affectionate in this way have been separated, especially when one was ill?

With regard to pro-gay bias in the gay media, yes, it exists. On the other hand, how much are references to (homo)sexual orientation either whitewashed out of the mainstream media or, at best, discussed like a diagnosis or a fetish rather than the relatively minor trait that it is? For what it's worth, gay publishing and the gay media in general are in terrible shape these days, with news outlets and publishing companies closing up at an alarming rate. I can live with a little positive bias in this case because, well, it beats being ignored.
 
davidlc3
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:30 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:24 pm



Quoting Articulatexpat (Reply 38):
You know, most people who discount or minimize reports of homophobia have probably never been on the receiving end of it.

Here, here!

Very well said.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:26 pm



Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 39):
Here, here!

Very well said.

I have to second this.  thumbsup   checkmark 
You can't cure stupid
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:27 pm



Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 7):
Sounds like hate crime...

Sounds like another Jr. Perry Mason doesn't know anything about the law.

Okay, all you guys who have sat on a 737, behind the wing. How easy is it to understand the conversation of a person not directly next to you? About impossible. Isn't sitting behind the engines great? Yet this guy clearly heard the flight attendant say "fag"? Okay, sure. He must also be a doctor, knowing that the child next to him obviously had an ear infection. Heck, I diagnose those from across the room every day. Don't you? Children cry on planes... it's what they do.

Why do I get the feeling this guy was being sulky with the FA because they got seat split and got the obligatory screaming kid, then went into self righteous bitch overdrive on her at some point? Because we've never seen that happen, right?

Remind me to go postal on the next FA who asks, "garbage"..
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18260
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:27 pm



Quoting Khobar (Reply 37):
Ya don't think this story might be just slightly biased?

Sorry, not following that logic. If a story of the women asked to leave - or cover up - on a Southwest flight is reported in the mainstream press, then that mainstream press is biased against Southwest?

And if it is published in "Big Boobs" magazine, that magazine is biased against Southwest?

 confused 

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Mir
Posts: 19107
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:28 pm



Quoting Articulatexpat (Reply 38):
if even half of the story what this FA reportedly did was accurate, it's still unacceptable.

I never said it wasn't unacceptable. I just don't see conclusive evidence to suggest that the F/A was being homophobic. That word gets thrown around too much these days, and it cheapens the word to the point that when there actually is a problem of homophobia that needs addressing, nobody takes it seriously.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
bennett123
Posts: 7461
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:31 pm

Assuming that story is a full and fair account, then clearly the conduct of the FA is unacceptable purely on a customer service basis.

The problem is the lack of impartial witnesses.
 
FLY2LIM
Posts: 1095
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 6:01 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flig

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:36 pm



Quoting EMB170 (Reply 29):
Quoting FlyUSCG (Reply 23):
I think we should all wait and see here. I read this article and there are just too many questions in my mind. (well maybe just a couple big ones). First of all: the article is written and published on a gay news site (bias much?). Second: the story is written by the man himself (hardly what I would call impartial).

I'm sorry, but discounting a story of homophobia because it was written on a gay news site is in and of itself offensive. Gay news media don't blindly publish every allegation of discrimination that comes their way; we must also remember that the victim in question was the news editor of said publication. What is he supposed to do, not use the tools at his disposal to speak out for change and for the good of our community?



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 30):
Really? What press time? Was this story so vital and the journalist/victim so worried that someone else would scoop his own, PERSONAL story that it be put out in Issue 50, Volume 35 rather than Issue 51 Volume 35 and thus they couldn't contact WN in time to get some more information/response/apology? Honestly? I know craphole journalists at CNN and FoxNews use this excuse to spread propaganda, but usually those stories have some pressing time issue involved in them. This one didn't.



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 34):
Again, what about this story required it be filed for the Dec 14th edition of this weekly newsletter? What disservice would have been done to the world if it was filed on Dec 21st and WN had a chance to tell their side of the story or "make it right" by the passenger. Isn't the point of journalism to get the whole story? Is there a conflict of interest in the journalist being the victim, and then writing the story with only his POV? Did this journalist even talk to any other pax on the flight in preparation for this article? No quotes from anyone, so I doubt it, and his only reference was that the person next to him didn't complain, so obviously everything was fine, according to him.

I'm not saying this guy wasn't harassed. I'm saying his journalism is poor. And I'm not saying he's the only one who's journalism is poor. The mainstream press takes this same copout when they are afraid that either a) they will get "scooped" for the story and someone else will get to spread the false information or b) they don't want to actually get a response because it might damage the story.

My response is entirely about journalism and about what, exactly, constitutes "journalism" and what is not. I am straight, married, but actually work with gay people, live in a city that is very gay tolerant, and have friends who are gay, so I have no "phobias" about the subject. No one in this world should be mistreated, and my wife and I are raising our daughters to treat people with kindness and respect. OK?
So, there are so many people on these forums that read CRAP (meaning, from sources that are not reliable or objective) and pass it on as the truth and good journalism. In order for an article to be believable, truthful, and fair it has to be written in a forum that is just that, particularly fair. First, this publication is not in the mainstream, so it's not what most people access to get their information. That is the reason why, right or wrong, this will not get much attention from mainstream media. Second, a person who is harassed (as this person claims he was) cannot be the same person who writes a "fair and objective" article about the incident. It's simply not possible and it's simply not good journalism. By the way, that is exactly what I studied in college, so I may know a little about the subject, even if I no longer work in the business.
Therefore, this article has no weight, will not go anywhere, and will quickly die in the archives of this publication. It doesn't mean that the incident didn't happen, that the F/A was right, or that the person's rights weren't violated. It just means that this article has little journalistic value. If you believe for one second that the mainstream media publish news simply for entertainment value, you'd be incorrect. They also have to deal with ethical issues, with whether or not the information is biased, objective, and with whether or not they could be taken to court for publishing information that is not accurate. Remember, writing incorrect information about an entity with "deep pockets" can be a costly endeavor. NO ONE in the mainstream media will pick up a story from a gay/lesbian/transgendered publication, at least not now, in 2007.
Just for clarification, I will repeat that I believe (in my heart) that no individual deserves to be mistreated, ever, for any reason. Unfortunately, journalism must have certain standards, and I don't believe this article meets said standards.

FLY2LIM
Faucett. La primera linea aerea del Peru.
 
davidlc3
Posts: 82
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:30 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:38 pm

Assuming the story is even 80% correct (leave out the gay epiteth in this instance) there still is not plausible reason to call the cops on this pax.

As a crew member I have requested the police to meet about 8 flights in 8 years and each instance was the result of physical or verbal abuse from a pax on a crew member. Even using the "80% is true" I do not see enough action to warrant calling the cops.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:44 pm



Quoting Davidlc3 (Reply 46):
Assuming the story is even 80% correct (leave out the gay epiteth in this instance) there still is not plausible reason to call the cops on this pax.

Unless the author of the article "forgot" to include that he may not have exactly been Ghandi while on the plane. He goes to great lenghts in the article to detail how patient and passive he was, yet also goes to great lengths to detail every slight, real or percieved against him. That's red flag territory. People who really see the troubles in life as water under the bridge tend not to catalog the water as it goes under the bridge.

Me thinks this story is a very redacted version of reality.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
sh0rtybr0wn
Posts: 373
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 8:16 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:45 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 41):
Sounds like another Jr. Perry Mason doesn't know anything about the law.

Sounds like somebody thinks getting detained and questioned by Police for 45 minutes after a flight and threatened with arrest is just part of everyday flying. Maybe if you were threatened with being arrested after you have a disagreement with a FA you would see it differently.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 6:53 pm



Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 48):
Sounds like somebody thinks getting detained and questioned by Police for 45 minutes after a flight and threatened with arrest is just part of everyday flying.

You aren't very up to date on post 9/11 flying are you?

Doesn't matter though that you don't realize the wonderful realities of the TSA Reich, that still doesn't make what happened a hate crime. If you can't fiqure this one out, go look up modification to criminal actions and get back to us.

Quoting Sh0rtybr0wn (Reply 48):
Maybe if you were threatened with being arrested after you have a disagreement with a FA you would see it differently.

Had it happen once when I had a Tinkerbell mug in my carryon. Yes, a Tinkerbell mug. Your "Whoa is me" tactic won't work on me, I'm the champion of the quad S.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
N1120A
Posts: 26468
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:03 pm



Quoting Davescj (Reply 9):
sexual preference protection in civil rights law

Sexual Orientation

Quoting Davescj (Reply 24):

Would the WA law apply? Remember, this was an interstate flight. Where did the violation occur?

Well, everything that happened on the ground would have WA law apply, and WA's long arm statute may well pull in the stuff that happened at BNA
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4050
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:06 pm



Quoting Khobar (Reply 37):
Wow, almost everyone jumps on WN as being guilty. Ya don't think this story might be just slightly biased? I mean, a gay man giving an exclusive story about gay victimization to a gay publication???

= You know. Stories of discrimination are usually carried by progressive publications which flight for an equal world - that may be gay/straight, black/white, immigrant/xenophob. A lot of this may be because they are more sensitive in understanding the discrimination being felt than the other side.

Cheers,
A.
Live, and let live.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:07 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 49):
Had it happen once when I had a Tinkerbell mug in my carryon. Yes, a Tinkerbell mug.

You must have been devastated. How did you get through it?

Your carrying a Tinkerbell mug somehow equates to hatred and discrimination? Try seeing it from another person's perspective. You might see things differently.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 49):
I'm the champion of the quad S.

Quad S?
You can't cure stupid
 
AT
Posts: 889
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Southwest FA Accused Of Homophobia During Flight

Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:16 pm

Prefacing my post by saying that ***ASSUMING*** this is true, I would propose that until Southwest formally and publicly apologizes, and/or fires the flight attendant in question, we collectively refuse to fly with them. We can not tolerate any form of discrimination and the best way to show our disapproval is by not flying them.

And re: the comment
"The problem is the lack of impartial witnesses."
what about the neighboring passengers? They would be impartial (unless friends/relations of the passenger...) and from a legal perspective would make the best witness.

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