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fxramper
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Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:40 pm

In a nutshell: The NYT office dog attacks the Blackwater K-9 unit and had to be put down.

Do you think this is the liberal media raining on Blackwater or otherwise? Sad the canine had to be put down.

All comments welcome.

article

Please keep comments relevant!
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:45 pm

Sounds like a bunch of crap to me. American soldiers are dying daily in Iraq and NYT is worried about someone shooting a stray dog? These media types are real aholes
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
NWA742
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:49 pm

Sounds like the only reason they're publishing this story is to play on emotions to get more to people to dislike Blackwater. That, when in reality of course they and every other American civilian trotting around in Iraq is goddamn lucky to have Blackwater there.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
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mariner
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:52 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
Sounds like a bunch of crap to me. American soldiers are dying daily in Iraq and NYT is worried about someone shooting a stray dog? These media types are real aholes

The deaths of American soldiers are reported every day.

But - the dog was shot.

Should it not be reported, should it be kept secret?

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
LHMark
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:53 pm



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 2):
Sounds like the only reason they're publishing this story is to play on emotions to get more to people to dislike Blackwater. That, when in reality of course they and every other American civilian trotting around in Iraq is goddamn lucky to have Blackwater there.
-

Or they're pissed that someone shot their dog.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
MDorBust
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:56 pm

TFB, cry me a river, SFW, yatta yatta yatta.

Why is this even news?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
NWA742
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:01 pm



Quoting LHMARK (Reply 4):
Or they're pissed that someone shot their dog.

If it was true that their dog was attacking a Blackwater security dog, I don't give a flying fuck if they are pissed, they have no valid reason to be. I love dogs as much as anybody, but that doesn't change the fact that I would readily shoot any dog that decides to attack my own.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
LHMark
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:20 pm



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 6):
If it was true that their dog was attacking a Blackwater security dog, I don't give a flying fuck if they are pissed, they have no valid reason to be. I love dogs as much as anybody, but that doesn't change the fact that I would readily shoot any dog that decides to attack my own.


I agree, but that might not stop an angry editor with the power of the pen who just lost 'Boomer.'
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
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fxramper
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:24 pm



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 2):
to get more to people to dislike Blackwater.

I would tend to agree with this statement.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 3):
The deaths of American soldiers are reported every day.

I haven't read a lot about troop fatalities recently - which is good!

Blackwater does a hell of a important job over there. I'm sure they do overstep boundaries from time to time, but I'm glad they're over there.

Related - did anyone see that Auburn football player get chomped on by a K-9 unit in the end zone?

 rotfl 
 
dl021
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:25 pm



Quoting LHMARK (Reply 9):
I agree, but that might not stop an angry editor with the power of the pen who just lost 'Boomer.'

If someone had just shot my dog, for almost any reason, then I'd be sort of pissed as well. I'd hope that my professionalism wouldn't lead me to take unfair advantage of my bully pulpit for revenge.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 10:53 pm

Another in the line of missteps for this no-bid contracted mercenary organization. Dogs, civilians... who's next? Well, who cares - they have immunity.

The Blackwater employee should have made sure the area was free of distractions BEFORE letting his animal enter the premises. If he saw another dog, cat, snake or octopus roaming around, he should have told someone to put a leash on it, lock it in a room, whatever, before sweeping the area. Have they no protocol?
 
MDorBust
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:00 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
this no-bid contracted mercenary organization

Because the other company who could fill this role is? Don't waster your time trying, all the other major companies also got no bid contracts.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
The Blackwater employee should have made sure the area was free of distractions BEFORE letting his animal enter the premises. If he saw another dog, cat, snake or octopus roaming around, he should have told someone to put a leash on it, lock it in a room, whatever, before sweeping the area. Have they no protocol?

 rotfl 

Sure sure, just shut down the whole US embassy so the dog can work... yup, great idea there.



PS. Triple Canopy says not to send a resume.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
NWA742
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:02 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 10):
The Blackwater employee should have made sure the area was free of distractions BEFORE letting his animal enter the premises. If he saw another dog, cat, snake or octopus roaming around, he should have told someone to put a leash on it, lock it in a room, whatever, before sweeping the area. Have they no protocol?

 rotfl 

Yes, you tell him how it's done!




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Queso
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:03 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
Another in the line of missteps for this no-bid contracted mercenary organization.

It was not a "misstep". It was an appropriate action considering the circumstances.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 16):
The Blackwater employee should have made sure the area was free of distractions BEFORE letting his animal enter the premises. If he saw another dog, cat, snake or octopus roaming around, he should have told someone to put a leash on it, lock it in a room, whatever, before sweeping the area. Have they no protocol?

20/20 hindsight? It's really easy to say "could have/should have" when you're not the one in the situation with it happening in real-time. It probably took you 20 times the amount of time to type your post as the actual amount of time of the incident.
 
dragon-wings
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:08 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 1):
NYT is worried about someone shooting a stray dog?

According to the article it wasn't a stray dog. The dog lived there it's whole life.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:12 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 11):
Because the other company who could fill this role is? Don't waster your time trying, all the other major companies also got no bid contracts.

...which is equally bad.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 11):
Sure sure, just shut down the whole US embassy so the dog can work... yup, great idea there.

Putting one dog on a leash does not qualify as 'shutting down an embassy'. And especially not in this case, since, well, it didn't happen at the embassy.  sarcastic 

The U.S. embassy in Iraq is investigating

Blackwater bodyguards shot Hentish dead last week before a visit by a U.S. diplomat to the Times compound.

Blackwater spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell said the dog had attacked one of Blackwater's bomb-sniffer dogs while a security team was sweeping the compound for explosives.


Quoting Queso (Reply 13):
It was not a "misstep". It was an appropriate action considering the circumstances.

Shooting animals because you haven't prepared is, at a minimum, a misstep.

Quoting Queso (Reply 13):
20/20 hindsight?

No, it's called being prepared.

Quoting Queso (Reply 13):
It probably took you 20 times the amount of time to type your post as the actual amount of time of the incident.

Typical excuse for most unnecessary shootings.
 
Queso
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:15 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
No, it's called being prepared.



Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
Typical excuse for most unnecessary shootings.

Ever been involved in an automobile accident? Why didn't you prepare for it and avoid it? And when you saw it coming why didn't you just steer the other way or stop?
 
NWA742
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:22 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
Putting one dog on a leash

Why wasn't the NYT dog on a leash? Why aren't you lashing out at them for that? Oh wait, that won't fit into your anti-Blackwater agenda. I see.

So here's the situation, according to the article:

The Blackwater dog, acting as a trained bomb-sniffing security officer is doing a job, and was attacked by an unleashed pet from a visiting civilian, yet somehow you're blaming this on Blackwater being unprepared:

Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
Shooting animals because you haven't prepared is, at a minimum, a misstep.

Well, by God how dare they not be prepared for those famous attacking NYT dogs. Morons!  Yeah sure

Have you ever made a single mistake in your life, Wellhung? If so, why didn't you prepare and avoid it? Let's hear it, please. I mean, that's the standard you're holding Blackwater to and all.....

Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
Typical excuse for most unnecessary shootings.

Why was the shooting unnecessary? If they had let the dogs continue to fight, both could have injured each other so badly that they would have had to be put down anyway.




->NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Springbok747
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:22 pm

Wow seems like a slow news day if this 'incident' has to be reported by the NY times.

Quoting Mariner (Reply 3):
Should it not be reported, should it be kept secret?

It was only reported because the mutt was owned by NY times and to make Blackwater look bad. Do you think they would have cared if an Iraqi shot some stray outside his house?
אני תומך בישראל
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting Dragon-wings (Reply 14):
According to the article it wasn't a stray dog. The dog lived there it's whole life.



Bullshit, I can read between the lines, the dog was a stray that the reporters feed. What, do you think they went to the local pet shop and bought it? I have lived in a poor foreign area and have seen first hand how rich Americans who don't know any better adopt stray dogs.

[Edited 2007-12-18 16:50:28]
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:41 am



Quoting Queso (Reply 16):
Ever been involved in an automobile accident? Why didn't you prepare for it and avoid it? And when you saw it coming why didn't you just steer the other way or stop?

Did you put this in the wrong thread or are you suggesting the shooting was an accident?

Quoting 777236ER (Reply 17):

Nah... a government contractor with no meaningful oversight or threat to their contract; no way they could do anything wrong.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 18):
Why wasn't the NYT dog on a leash?

 rotfl  Um... maybe because it lived there. If the Blackwater folks did their due diligence, they would know there was a dog and would have asked someone to secure it. They didn't do their job and got trigger happy again.
 
JakeOrion
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 1:04 am



Quoting FXramper (Thread starter):
In a nutshell: The NYT...

Stopped reading it after that point. Its the New York Times, no surprise there.
Every problem has a simple solution; finding the simple solution is the difficult problem.
 
MDorBust
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Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:06 am



Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
Putting one dog on a leash does not qualify as 'shutting down an embassy'.

No, but making the area "free of distractions" does.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
And especially not in this case, since, well, it didn't happen at the embassy.

Gee, sorry. Shut down the NYT compound.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 21):
If the Blackwater folks did their due diligence, they would know there was a dog and would have asked someone to secure it.

Kinda convenient how you seem to ignore that the NYT people were probably quite familiar with security protocols and didn't secure their dog. Or are you going to pretend that bomb sweeps are not the order of the day in Iraq?

Good rule of thumb to live with. If there are working dogs, and their handlers have guns, Kaput with all non-essentials. One would think the NYT guys in Iraq would know this one.. it's almost like they are in a war zone or something.

You'd probably blow a gasket if you knew how many dogs were shot by police every year. TFB, cry me a river, SFW, yatta yatta yatta.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:23 am



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 23):
Gee, sorry. Shut down the NYT compound.

Yeah, I'd hate for someone to be familiar with the facts before commenting. Of course, coming from someone who equates one dog on a leash with shutting down an entire operation, it looks like the facts can be ignored when they're inconvenient.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 23):
Kinda convenient how you seem to ignore that the NYT people were probably quite familiar with security protocols and didn't secure their dog. Or are you going to pretend that bomb sweeps are not the order of the day in Iraq?

As stated in the article, the compound was only being checked because a diplomat was visiting the NY Times. But let's not let the facts get in the way.

However, since Blackwater is so familiar with bomb sweeps in general, there are even fewer excuses for this debacle.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 23):
Good rule of thumb to live with. If there are working dogs, and their handlers have guns, Kaput with all non-essentials. One would think the NYT guys in Iraq would know this one.. it's almost like they are in a war zone or something.

If you're bringing your animals into an unknown area and said animals are so precious that you would kill to protect them, check the area for threats before entering. Of course, that's only common sense.
 
Queso
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:30 am



Quoting WellHung (Reply 21):
Did you put this in the wrong thread or are you suggesting the shooting was an accident?

Nice job of dodging my response to your own words!
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:33 am



Quoting Queso (Reply 25):
Nice job of dodging my response to your own words!

Poor job of dodging...

Guess you were just trying to go off topic.
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:51 am



Quoting WellHung (Reply 26):
Poor job of dodging...

Guess you were just trying to go off topic.

Well then, let's go back a few posts where you responded to my post and said....

Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
Quoting Queso (Reply 13):
20/20 hindsight?

No, it's called being prepared.

And since you are apparently an "Ex-Spert" on being prepared, I am asking you about some examples of being prepared yourself, which you obviously missed (or didn't care to understand):

Quoting Queso (Reply 16):
Ever been involved in an automobile accident? Why didn't you prepare for it and avoid it? And when you saw it coming why didn't you just steer the other way or stop?

And at that point you were unable to provide a reply so I have to deduce from your earlier statement...

Quoting WellHung (Reply 15):
No, it's called being prepared.

That you really have no idea what "being prepared" entails, especially when it involves split-second decision making. Until you are put in the position of having to make the same decisions the person who shot the dog had to make in this case, your second-guessing of his actions borders on the farcical.
 
WellHung
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 pm

RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 3:36 am

Well, I know for a fact that if I saw a car swerving across all lanes of traffic a half-mile ahead of me, I would stop before I came up to it. I also know that I check to make sure no cars are coming when I make a right on red. It's called being aware of the situation and avoiding unnecessary conflict, things a mercenary contractor might want to teach its employees.

Quoting Queso (Reply 27):
Until you are put in the position of having to make the same decisions the person who shot the dog had to make in this case

Well, I never have felt the need to kill an animal because of my own poor planning.

Quoting Queso (Reply 27):
your second-guessing of his actions borders on the farcical.

 rotfl  I notice you didn't comment on your no questions asked defense of the killers...
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:31 am

Quoting WellHung (Reply 21):
Um... maybe because it lived there.

                    

SO?!

I take it you don't own a dog, Wellhung. When you have guests, strangers, contractors, or simply anyone that your pet(s) doesn't know, entering your home, it is your job to secure it properly, not the guest's.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 21):
If the Blackwater folks did their due diligence, they would know there was a dog and would have asked someone to secure it.

Not their responsibility, plain and simple.

What's next? Are you going to blame the woman who nearly gets chewed to death by a pit bull for not preparing herself for random pitbull attacks on her daily jog, or the owner of the pit bull?

Also, I think you're missing Queso's point, so let me ask you this:

Have you ever had anything negative happen in your life that you didn't see coming and were not prepared for, despite knowing that it was possible? We all know the answer is yes - it happens to everybody. And hence, we all want to know why you didn't prepare for and prevent it during that situation? That puts you in the same boat as Blackwater here, you know - you might as well be talking to a mirror with your points against Blackwater.........or just not talking.................perhaps even obtaining a box and buying postage to Antarctica, inserting yourself in that box and nailing it shut..........something like that.........whatever you'd like to do, you know?





-NWA742

[Edited 2007-12-18 22:40:11]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Nuori5084
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:25 am

RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:54 am



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 2):
Sounds like the only reason they're publishing this story is to play on emotions to get more to people to dislike Blackwater. That, when in reality of course they and every other American civilian trotting around in Iraq is goddamn lucky to have Blackwater there.




-NWA742

Exactly.

It's convenient for them to come up with this article to further stir up the pot on whether Blackwater is doing the right thing and to further muddy their murky reputation based on utter crap once again. It's a short article with no substance.


"Blackwater spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell said the dog had attacked one of Blackwater's bomb-sniffer dogs while a security team was sweeping the compound for explosives."

"The K-9 handler made several unsuccessful attempts to get the dog to retreat, including placing himself between the dogs. When those efforts failed, the K-9 handler unfortunately was forced to use a pistol to protect the company's K-9 and himself," she said in an e-mail to Reuters.

Totally justified. You don't interfere with police work, period.
Failure to plan on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:51 am



Quoting WellHung (Reply 24):
As stated in the article, the compound was only being checked because a diplomat was visiting the NY Times.

Do you really think that the visitation of high level or otherwise important people to a major international media outlet is a rare thing?

For some reason it seems to me that this would be a daily thing. Hence, the NYT staff should be very familiar with the security protocols surrounding such an event.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 24):
However, since Blackwater is so familiar with bomb sweeps in general, there are even fewer excuses for this debacle.

Excuse?

You only make excuses when you do something wrong. No excuses here. The handler acted accordingly. Blackwater isn't the pound. It's not thier job to secure your animal. Don't want your dog shot, don't let it get after the security team. I would have, and have done the exact same thing.

Don't like it? TFB, cry me a river, SFW, yatta yatta yatta. Like I said, don't send a resume to Triple Canopy, you aren't cut out for this line of work.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Doona
Posts: 3382
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:23 am



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 2):
That, when in reality of course they and every other American civilian trotting around in Iraq is goddamn lucky to have Blackwater there.

*Trying to hold it in...No, can't sit by in silence any longer* Obviously the Iraqi civilians aren't quite as lucky, but hey, if you liberate someone, they better expect to get shot up a little by private security firms. What was is Rumsfeld said? "Freedom's messy"?

Cheers
Mats
Sure, we're concerned for our lives. Just not as concerned as saving 9 bucks on a roundtrip to Ft. Myers.
 
SBBRTech
Posts: 403
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:53 am

So any damn thing can be considered news as long as it happens in the sandbox...err, Iraq?

Why does the US embassy use Blackwater for security? Isn't that job done by the Marines ?
"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
 
WellHung
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 pm

RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:34 pm



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 29):
I take it you don't own a dog, Wellhung. When you have guests, strangers, contractors, or simply anyone that your pet(s) doesn't know, entering your home, it is your job to secure it properly, not the guest's.

I don't own a gun either, but I do know that when you are a guest, stranger, contractor or anyone entering someone else's home, it's common courtesy to not kill their pets.

And if you are bringing valuable property into their home that may be damaged by pets, it is your responsibility to alert them so they may act accordingly. But hey, that's just common sense.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 29):
Not their responsibility, plain and simple.

If they're about to bring their million dollar baby into a strange place, it is their responsibility to make sure there is no threat before entering. If these things are valuable enough to kill for, they are certainly valuable enough to warrant a cursory assessment of the area.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 29):
What's next? Are you going to blame the woman who nearly gets chewed to death by a pit bull for not preparing herself for random pitbull attacks on her daily jog, or the owner of the pit bull?

There is not enough information for me to decide either way. Please provide a link with a more detailed explanation.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 29):
perhaps even obtaining a box and buying postage to Antarctica, inserting yourself in that box and nailing it shut..........something like that

Aside, of course, from the physical impossibility of such a task, but that's just common sense again. Common sense would also dictate that killing a pet because you didn't do your homework would be frowned upon.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
Do you really think that the visitation of high level or otherwise important people to a major international media outlet is a rare thing?

For some reason it seems to me that this would be a daily thing.

I imagine such visits would be unnecessary, what with the proliferation of the tele-horn a few years back.

Nevertheless, if they are common, Blackwater would be familiar with the dog and therefore remiss if they did not insist that it be secured prior to them entering.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
don't send a resume to Triple Canopy, you aren't cut out for this line of work.

I'm not really interested in a job where I would be expected to kill people's pets because of my own negligence. But if Mike Vick can't get back into the NFL, he may be exactly what they're looking for.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 37):
And now, for the truth.

Is this the actual truth, or, you know, the truth like putting one dog on a leash in a newsroom means an entire embassy has to shut down?
 
WellHung
Posts: 3299
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 8:50 pm

RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:03 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
For some reason it seems to me that this would be a daily thing. Hence, the NYT staff should be very familiar with the security protocols surrounding such an event.



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 47):
Observation directly contradicted by the flood of face to face interviews on television everyday.

Um, the New York Times is a print publication.  rotfl  Therefore, it does not require the "daily" visits you suggest above in order to produce these face to face television interviews, because, well, it doesn't produce face to face television interviews.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 47):
Unfounded assumption.

If the sweeps happen 'daily' as you claim and the NYT dog has been there for years, how can Blackwater, this highly specialized government contractor/mercenary force charged to protect government officials, not know it exists?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 47):

Then perhaps you shouldn't try criticizing those that do

Shoot people's pets for a living after failing to do their job... I'd hate to give them a bad name.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 47):

Assumption based out of ingnorance of the job and the duties it entails.

It's quite clear what it doesn't entail... common sense and being prepared.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:11 pm

Quoting WellHung (Reply 53):
Um, the New York Times is a print publication.

No, really?

Quoting WellHung (Reply 53):
Therefore, it does not require the "daily" visits you suggest above in order to produce these face to face television interviews, because, well, it doesn't produce face to face television interviews.

Dear resident genious, not all face to face interviews are televised.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 53):
If the sweeps happen 'daily' as you claim and the NYT dog has been there for years, how can Blackwater, this highly specialized government contractor/mercenary force charged to protect government officials, not know it exists?

Knowing it exists and being familiar with the dog are two different things. People who have owned dogs for many years are often surprised by their behavior. Want me to drag up the stories of peoples pit bulls attacking their own children?

Quoting WellHung (Reply 53):
Shoot people's pets for a living after failing to do their job...

He didn't fail to do his job. He did his job perfectly. See a threat, nuetralize a threat.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 53):
It's quite clear what it doesn't entail... common sense and being prepared.

Not prepared? Evidence suggests that his sidearm was loaded.

[Edited 2007-12-19 09:17:44]
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:38 pm

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 54):
Dear resident genious, not all face to face interviews are televised.

   You are straying farther and farther from the topic.

You claim that diplomatic visits to a print publication for face to face interviews are commonplace because you've seen some interviews on television?    What is the equation? For every x number of face to face interviews in Iraq that appear on MDorBust's television screen, there are y face to face interviews at print publication compounds that are not aired...

Or, more simply, the face to face interviews you see on tv (none of which occur at the NYT compound) have no correlation to the number of face to face or telephone interviews conducted by a print publication and therefore your original statement is irrelevant.

You have obviously never known a newspaper reporter with a deadline.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 54):
Knowing it exists and being familiar with the dog are two different things.

It is no secret how unfamiliar dogs act around each other. If they knew it existed (and according to your theory they must have) then it should have been secured prior to the bomb sniffing dog entering the premises.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 54):
He did fail to do his job. He did his job perfectly. See a threat, nuetralize a threat.

More like 'fail to see a threat, kill someone's pet'.

[Edited 2007-12-19 09:40:58]
 
MDorBust
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:52 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 55):
You claim that diplomatic visits to a print publication for face to face interviews are commonplace because you've seen some interviews on television?

Not quite there buddy.

I said that visits by high level personel to media outlets are a common occurance, and used the prevalence of face to face interviews as a supporting device.

If the crux of your argument is going to be to continue to insist that the media are somehow unaware of the security protocols associated with high level personel you might as well start posting your collection of crying baby picture now since your argument is done.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 55):
If they knew it existed (and according to your theory they must have)

This is again speculation on your part.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 55):
More like 'fail to see a threat, kill someone's pet'.

Fail to see a threat? So are you now contending the dog was shot accidentally by a ND on the part of the Blackwater dog handler?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:19 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 55):
I said that visits by high level personel to media outlets are a common occurance, and used the prevalence of face to face interviews as a supporting device.

And what evidence do you have that the interviews took place at the media compounds and not the embassy or whatever?

How do you plan to link television interviews on television channels to the number of on-site visits to a newspaper compound especially when most newspaper interviews are not conducted face to face?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 55):
If the crux of your argument is going to be to continue to insist that the media are somehow unaware of the security protocols associated with high level personel

The crux of the argument is that the security contractors are unaware of the security protocols.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 55):

This is again speculation on your part.

Either they knew and didn't do their job or they didn't know and therefore didn't do their job. No speculation.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 55):
Fail to see a threat? So are you now contending the dog was shot accidentally by a ND on the part of the Blackwater dog handler?

No, but by their negligence, the unnecessarily put their dog at risk. This is a failure to recognize the threat.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:32 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 38):
And what evidence do you have that the interviews took place at the media compounds and not the embassy or whatever?

What evidence do I have that the media interviews people? Well, as entertaining a concept as that would be to finally prove that the media just makes junk up, I think we can take it as given that the media do in fact conduct interviews and that those interviews are conducted to best fit every ones schedules and security requirements... meaning, that yes Virginia, the NYT was very likely regularly having visitors of significant stature to their compound.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 38):
The crux of the argument is that the security contractors are unaware of the security protocols.

These would be the security protocols you don't know about because you've admitted to having no interest in the field and are therefore just whilly nilly making up protocols to suit your agenda?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 38):
No speculation.

Yes it is. It's speculation to the presence of the dog during other bomb sweeps.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 38):
This is a failure to recognize the threat

He most certainly recognized the threat. That's why he shot the dog.

Is it really this difficult for you to say the NYT should have kenneled their mutt?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
NWA742
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:34 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 45):
I do know that when you are a guest, stranger, contractor or anyone entering someone else's home, it's common courtesy to not kill their pets.

Oh really? Do you also know that when you are a guest, stranger, contractor, or anyone authorized to enter someone else's home, it's common courtesy for them to control and secure anything that might try to harm you?

Quoting WellHung (Reply 45):
And if you are bringing valuable property into their home that may be damaged by pets, it is
your responsibility to alert them so they may act accordingly.

This was asked to you before - how many times to do you think these bomb-checks using bomb dogs go on? Don't assume that the fucktards who owned the attacking dog weren't aware of the common presence of bomb-sniffing dogs - that's bullshit. Also, don't assume that they weren't contacted by Blackwater informing them of the bomb inspection prior to entering the area.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 45):
But hey, that's just common sense.

Yes.......common sense........like trying to back up an argument that simply doesn't hold water. Very common for you.........I'm having doubts about the sense though............ scratchchin 

Quoting WellHung (Reply 45):
If they're about to bring their million dollar baby into a strange place, it is their responsibility to make sure there is no threat before entering.

That's true - but what makes you think this was a strange place for them to enter? AGAIN - how many times do you think these security inspections go on?!

Quoting WellHung (Reply 45):
There is not enough information for me to decide either way. Please provide a link with a more detailed explanation.

It was hypothetical, although I'm sure there are many real-life examples, we hear about pit bull attacks all the time.

But to go into more detail - here's the situation:

Sally jogs on the same path around her block every morning. She was not aware that one house had a pit bull but because the owner always kept it chained up to the house, behind the protective steel fence of the backyard, and out of her visibility. Sally also lives in a great neighborhood with security patrols and an HOA, where crime has never been an issue, so she doesn't carry mace or any protective gear on her jog.

One morning Sally is jogging past the pit bull owner's house when she sees the pitbull unchained and freely walking around the front yard. The pit bill was freed by it's owner because the owner assumed it wasn't aggressive enough to pose a threat. Sally walks to the other side of the street, but the pit bull begins to chase after her, catches her, and begins ripping her apart. She is not nearly powerful enough to fight back, and all she can do is scream.

Luckily soon after this begins, a security officer on patrol sees the pit bull attacking Sally, drives up and shoots it to death. Sally's life is saved, but barely.

Who would you blame for this death? Sally or the owner of the dog?

Quoting WellHung (Reply 45):
Aside, of course, from the physical impossibility of such a task, but that's just common sense again.

It's physically impossible to nail yourself inside a box? Seems to me all it would take is a flashlight, a hammer, nails, or just a nail gun.

Common sense, eh? Besides, it was sarcasm. Common sense would dictate that you could detect sarcasm when it was being layed on pretty thick.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:44 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 39):
I think we can take it as given that the media do in fact conduct interviews and that those interviews are conducted to best fit every ones schedules and security requirements... meaning, that yes Virginia, the NYT was very likely regularly having visitors of significant stature to their compound.

Or, to even better suit their schedules and render such security sweeps unnecessary, they just talk to them on the phone... like every other newspaper reporter.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 39):
whilly nilly

 rotfl  Is that a military term?  rotfl 

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 39):
Yes it is. It's speculation to the presence of the dog during other bomb sweeps.

It is speculation that there were other bomb sweeps.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 39):
He most certainly recognized the threat. That's why he shot the dog.

If they recognized the threat, the dog would have been secured to begin with. Unless, of course, Blackwater just storms in and starts shooting, which isn't out of the question.
 
MDorBust
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:53 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 41):
Or, to even better suit their schedules and render such security sweeps unnecessary, they just talk to them on the phone... like every other newspaper reporter.

Which would kind of make having a compound in Baghdad useless wouldn't it? The existence of the compound seems to make your assumption that all work is done over the phone a bit flawed doesn't it?

Quoting WellHung (Reply 41):
It is speculation that there were other bomb sweeps.

That's not speculation. That's pretty much a given fact that this would have happened.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 41):
If they recognized the threat, the dog would have been secured to begin with.

Might want to tell the NYT that.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:01 pm



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 32):
Why does the US embassy use Blackwater for security? Isn't that job done by the Marines ?

Countless State Dept officials are guarded by Blackwater.

Sad to see the dog was shot and killed - but it was attacking a trained K-9 as the Reuters article stated.

Someone at the Times got their feelings hurt and wrote about it...
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:16 pm



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 40):
Sally jogs on the same path around her block every morning. She was not aware that one house had a pit bull but because the owner always kept it chained up to the house, behind the protective steel fence of the backyard, and out of her visibility. Sally also lives in a great neighborhood with security patrols and an HOA, where crime has never been an issue, so she doesn't carry mace or any protective gear on her jog.

One morning Sally is jogging past the pit bull owner's house when she sees the pitbull unchained and freely walking around the front yard. The pit bill was freed by it's owner because the owner assumed it wasn't aggressive enough to pose a threat. Sally walks to the other side of the street, but the pit bull begins to chase after her, catches her, and begins ripping her apart. She is not nearly powerful enough to fight back, and all she can do is scream.

Luckily soon after this begins, a security officer on patrol sees the pit bull attacking Sally, drives up and shoots it to death. Sally's life is saved, but barely.

The dog in this case didn't exit the property to attack, which is a large distinction.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 42):
Which would kind of make having a compound in Baghdad useless wouldn't it? The existence of the compound seems to make your assumption that all work is done over the phone a bit flawed doesn't it?

"All work"?  rotfl  How many straw dogs are there in your backyard?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 42):
That's not speculation. That's pretty much a given fact that this would have happened.

Link?

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 42):

Might want to tell the NYT that.

So the NYT should have put a leash on the Blackwater employee once they saw he had a gun?
 
MDorBust
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:21 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 44):
"All work"? How many straw dogs are there in your backyard?

If the argument is a straw man argument as you now claim, and you now no longer want to claim that not "all work" is over the phone then you must conceed that some of the work is face to face and therefore the NYT guys must be knowledgeable of the security protocols that entails.

Funny, seeing you trump your own argument in an attempt to make a personal dig at me. That made my day

Quoting WellHung (Reply 44):
Link?

You just argued for it.

Quoting WellHung (Reply 44):
So the NYT should have put a leash on the Blackwater employee once they saw he had a gun?

How about, on their dog.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:24 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 45):
you must conceed that some of the work is face to face and therefore the NYT guys must be knowledgeable of the security protocols that entails.

What if, say, they were interviewing soldiers in the field, or Iraqis in their homes - both obviously important to reporting in Iraq? Why would they then have to be familiar with security protocols?
 
NWA742
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:26 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 44):
The dog in this case didn't exit the property to attack, which is a large distinction.

It's not meant to be a perfect analogy - I just want to know where you stand in terms of personal responsibility. Who would you blame?




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
MDorBust
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:30 pm



Quoting WellHung (Reply 46):
Why would they then have to be familiar with security protocols?

Even better. If they are, as you say, "interviewing soldiers in the field" they would be intimately familiar with security protocols, and lots and lots of working K-9s.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
WellHung
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RE: Blackwater Guard Shoots NYT Office Dog.

Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:02 pm



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 47):
It's not meant to be a perfect analogy

It's not even close.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 47):
I just want to know where you stand in terms of personal responsibility. Who would you blame?

If you don't intend to stay on topic, start a thread about personal responsibility.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 48):
Even better. If they are, as you say, "interviewing soldiers in the field" they would be intimately familiar with security protocols, and lots and lots of working K-9s.

Do Blackwater employees provide security to soldiers in the field? Aren't the soldiers trained so they can, you know, protect themselves?

Of course, the protocols in the field for a journalist are different than the ones used for diplomats visiting news offices. But let's not get too far into the facts...

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