ronglimeng
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Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:46 am

I saw another of those signs today: " If you ate today - thank a farmer" .

Well, no thanks, I pay for my food both directly, and indirectly through taxes. Where do some of these agricultural people get off, thinking they're doing me some kind of favour by growing food?

My brother-in law is a farmer and it is hard to be around him when he's talking about how hard he works and how little he gets for his labour. He's never had a "real" job with a boss and a punch clock. He works long hours but much of the time he just seems to be screwing around enjoying himself doing stuff like I do in the garage on Saturday's.

I figure it's just a business like any other and if you can make a living at it, that's great. If not, sell the place, and try something else.

Remember that joke about the farmer who won a million dollars? They asked him what he was going to do with it, and he said he'd probably just "farm it away". Nobody seems to admit to making any money at it, but if you drive by one of those rural auctions, both sides of the road seem to be lined with shiny new half-ton trucks loaded with all the accessories.

I suppose it is necessary for a country to be self-sufficient in basic food supplies and we would have to ensure that there is adequate domestic food production as part of our national security.

But can't we get a fairly stable agricultural industry without all the whining?
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:59 am



Quoting Ronglimeng (Thread starter):
Well, no thanks, I pay for my food both directly, and indirectly through taxes. Where do some of these agricultural people get off, thinking they're doing me some kind of favour by growing food?

I got an idea.

Grow your own food. Raise your own livestock.

Nobody does that stuff for free.

And this is coming from a city slicker suburbanite who was once shocked at the actual size of a heffer when he first saw one.

Quoting Ronglimeng (Thread starter):
He's never had a "real" job with a boss and a punch clock. He works long hours but much of the time he just seems to be screwing around enjoying himself doing stuff like I do in the garage on Saturday's.

Well let's see, if we measure how real a job is based on manual labor...he's got you beat. I'm an engineer like you. (well engineer in training in between working). I've had internships, worked at Aerospace companies. Life is easier for an engineer, IMO. Work can be stressful, but I doubt it's more stressful than being a farmer. On top of that, as a graduate this coming May I can look forward to a shortage of engineers keeping the job market nice (more or less), a signing bonus, and believe it or not, there's a company that offers health insurance for your pet as a gimmick to get new grads. Kinda sick really. My dad's never been offered this stuff. Granted, he's in his 60's now. (Also an engineer). The new generation of Farmers isn't getting ANY of that stuff.

BTW, the difference between a farmer's truck and a truck owned by a suburbanite...the farmer's truck is an asset. For the suburbanite, it's compensation. BTW, one company I worked at, seemed to have employees pride themselves on the ability to goof off while still getting paid. And I hope you didn't post this while at work...  eyebrow 

Farmers aren't getting any of that.

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ronglimeng
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:55 am

Hi Boeing4ever:

Thanks for your response. It saved me from the ignominy of having another thread of mine drop like a rock with zero responses.

I'm not trying to get my food for free. I just want to buy it without a lot of tears and drama in the background.

Growing my own food is an attractive but impossible idea here in suburbia. Without trying to sound paranoid, I'd like to be self-sufficient for my food supply. I wonder how much space we'd need to grow enough for two people for a year?

I read an interesting article on US agricultural policy in the Nov 24 TIME magazine in a hospital waiting room this morning. It seems like big farms continue to get get bigger and small farms continue to disappear. Cutting subsidies to big agriculture is something that the US government always puts off to the next time. I guess most of the commotion comes from small farmers on the bottom who are going under.


Sometimes I read posts at work during my lunch break but I never have time to write them. We bill our time by the hour and if I'm screwing around, it really feels like I'm cheating our client. My brother-in-law, on the other hand, can drive into town anytime he likes and spend a pleasant hour shooting the sh*t at the feed store about how hard his life is.
 
LHMark
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:59 am

It's just a public awareness campaign to remind consumers that the agricultural chain is important, and often unseen by urbanites.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
767Lover
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:26 am



Quoting Ronglimeng (Thread starter):
I saw another of those signs today: " If you ate today - thank a farmer" .

Well, no thanks, I pay for my food both directly, and indirectly through taxes. Where do some of these agricultural people get off, thinking they're doing me some kind of favour by growing food?

Are you for real?
 
DC10extender
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:21 am



Quoting Ronglimeng (Thread starter):
He's never had a "real" job with a boss and a punch clock. He works long hours but much of the time he just seems to be screwing around enjoying himself doing stuff like I do in the garage on Saturday's.

Well, this is like comparing apples and oranges. It is a real job in the sense that he is able to make a living farming a strip of land where he has no real job security, no pension plan, and no way of knowing what the next year brings. It is as real a job as any and you should respect him and applaud him for making a living in his own fashion.
Did you ever read on your birth certificate that life is fair? Thats cause its not there.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:33 am



Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 2):
Thanks for your response. It saved me from the ignominy of having another thread of mine drop like a rock with zero responses.

No problemo.

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 2):
I'm not trying to get my food for free. I just want to buy it without a lot of tears and drama in the background.

Getting things done with no drama? What kind of engineer are you?  Wink Making anything is never as easy as it sounds when you throw markets, money, and human resources into the mix. Besides, I think the heffer has a right to shed some tears before she's turned into tasty, tasty, sirloin.  Smile

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 2):
Growing my own food is an attractive but impossible idea here in suburbia. Without trying to sound paranoid, I'd like to be self-sufficient for my food supply. I wonder how much space we'd need to grow enough for two people for a year?

Not sure. I'm not an Ag. major. But, you should have enough to leave one field empty (rested) while the other in use. Preserves soil nutrients as opposed to using them up.

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 2):
I read an interesting article on US agricultural policy in the Nov 24 TIME magazine in a hospital waiting room this morning. It seems like big farms continue to get get bigger and small farms continue to disappear. Cutting subsidies to big agriculture is something that the US government always puts off to the next time. I guess most of the commotion comes from small farmers on the bottom who are going under.

Bullseye. Think of it as Wal-Mart vs. Ma and Pop...farmers' edition. If only I could get a bag of chips, salsa, and some batteries for a low price and little drama.  Wink

Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 2):
Sometimes I read posts at work during my lunch break but I never have time to write them. We bill our time by the hour and if I'm screwing around, it really feels like I'm cheating our client. My brother-in-law, on the other hand, can drive into town anytime he likes and spend a pleasant hour shooting the sh*t at the feed store about how hard his life is.

Ahhh, working by the hour. I did that for my first internship. Got my 40 hours done by Wed. or early Thurs. Up to Sun. was pure overtime. Time and a half too.  Smile I know, that's insane. But I'm young, and it was only for a few months. If I was older and trying to sustain a family...yeah, I'd think twice. As for your brother. Well, he lives right where he works. I guess he can spread his day out some more. Plus he isn't paid by the hour, rather by the bushel, lbs, head of cattle, etc.

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Mir
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:06 am



Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 2):
It seems like big farms continue to get get bigger and small farms continue to disappear.

This is indeed a problem, particularly when you consider that industrial-style farming (particularly in the meat business) isn't all that good for the environment or for the health of the consumers.

That doesn't mean that farmers are lazy.

-Mir
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WestJetYQQ
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:08 am



Quoting Ronglimeng (Thread starter):
Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Am One.  Wink

Though, getting out of the business. Just ain't worth startin' unless you're rich anymore.
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
QANTASforever
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:45 am

What I love is when they or their grandfathers have started a farm in the middle of the desert and expect avocadoes or pineapples or whatever the hell else to grow - and then when they don't, they expect the taxpayer to subsidise their own stupidity.

And what do politicians do? They fund these morons because it's part of their "country traditions".

We'll have to remember that the next time an unviable airline closes down - what about our tradition of aviation?

Double standards. Schmucks.
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767Lover
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:01 pm

Of course, farmers do enable things like biofuel and biotech for pharmaceuticals. It's not just about food.

And as mentioned, they do have a hell of a risk involved: weather, drought, infestation, equipment breakdowns, illness that limits manpower and production...I could go on and on. Would you care to start cultivating your own well-rounded diet knowing these conditions?


I'm still waiting for an explanation of this one:

Quoting Ronglimeng (Thread starter):
Well, no thanks, I pay for my food both directly, and indirectly through taxes. Where do some of these agricultural people get off, thinking they're doing me some kind of favour by growing food?

From where does this food that you pay for (directly and indirectly through taxes) come? Is it spontaneously created via some kind of immaculate conception?
 
LHMark
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:09 pm



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 10):

From where does this food that you pay for (directly and indirectly through taxes) come? Is it spontaneously created via some kind of immaculate conception?

Isn't that how we get the cheeses of Nazareth?
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:14 pm



Quoting Ronglimeng (Thread starter):
If you ate today - thank a farmer"

It should probably "thank an illegal immigrant...the farmer ain't doing any of the hard labor"

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 1):
Well let's see, if we measure how real a job is based on manual labor...he's got you beat.

He probably owns the farm, but doesn't work it. In fact some of the biggest government subsidy recipients live in Manhattan.

http://www.usda.gov/documents/8907Manhattanmap.pdf
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
767Lover
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:14 pm



Quoting LHMARK (Reply 11):
Quoting 767Lover (Reply 10):

From where does this food that you pay for (directly and indirectly through taxes) come? Is it spontaneously created via some kind of immaculate conception?

Isn't that how we get the cheeses of Nazareth?

OOOh, you're good.....  Smile
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:22 pm



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 10):
Of course, farmers do enable things like biofuel and biotech for pharmaceuticals

Ugh that's even worse than the crop subsidies. We're subsidising ethanol which is just as polluting as oil but also drives up world food prices, and you *know* you'll never be able to "unsubsidize" the Midwest after you start, unlike the Middle East which doesn't vote in our elections.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
767Lover
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:48 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
Ugh that's even worse than the crop subsidies. We're subsidising ethanol which is just as polluting as oil but also drives up world food prices, and you *know* you'll never be able to "unsubsidize" the Midwest after you start, unlike the Middle East which doesn't vote in our elections.

Biotech and biofuel are not just about ethanol. There are many things being tested --such as the use of vegetable oils and animal fats for power generation. Biotech is replicating plant cells and proteins that are being tested in the manufacture of new drugs.

But of course, if you want to bitch about farmers, none of this is going to sway you.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
He probably owns the farm, but doesn't work it. In fact some of the biggest government subsidy recipients live in Manhattan.

http://www.usda.gov/documents/8907Ma...p.pdf

This is a problem indeed. The qualifications for who gets subsidies needs to be revamped.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:58 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 6):
But, you should have enough to leave one field empty (rested) while the other in use. Preserves soil nutrients as opposed to using them up.

No need to rest the field. Just rotate the crops. Like here in Minnesota, we grow two things...corn and soy beans. So a farmer will switch the crops in his fields every fall, and thus preserve the soil.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
It should probably "thank an illegal immigrant...the farmer ain't doing any of the hard labor"

 Yeah sure

Most farmers around here work themselves and their family pretty hard. Illegal immigrants around here work in the meatplants.
“Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, an
 
MDorBust
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:58 pm



Quoting Ronglimeng (Thread starter):
My brother-in law is a farmer and it is hard to be around him when he's talking about how hard he works and how little he gets for his labour. He's never had a "real" job with a boss and a punch clock. He works long hours but much of the time he just seems to be screwing around enjoying himself doing stuff like I do in the garage on Saturday's.

WTF?

You are plenty welcome to come down to the ranch any ol' day and build some fence with us. You'll have to be up with us at 0430 so we can be out and working by the time false dawn starts. Should be done with the fence work by noon, so we'll break for lunch and fix any equipment that needs work. Then we'll be back off to have look in on the livestock, check the feed, clear the water, bolster and pens that have been pushed and all the nifty tasks. At least there's a perk this time of year. If we get done before dusk you can take a turn in a deer stand... without having to pay for a lease.

Oh, and all the food is fresh, which is greatly appreciated after not working for sixteen hours a day...

Just because you don't understand agricultural work doesn't mean it isn't very hard work.

Quoting Ronglimeng (Thread starter):
... if you drive by one of those rural auctions, both sides of the road seem to be lined with shiny new half-ton trucks loaded with all the accessories.

You know, we use those trucks for what trucks are supposed to be used for right?
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:13 pm

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 16):
Most farmers around here

Where is "here"?

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 15):
But of course, if you want to bitch about farmers, none of this is going to sway you.

I have nothing against farmers, just the subsidies they receive. That and basically anythign to do with ethanol but we'll be wedded to ethanol as long as there's a caucus in Iowa that people care about. And the "thank a farmer" attitude can go too. It's a bit off putting when the same people lobby against foodstuff competition from other countries.

[Edited 2007-12-21 09:15:19]
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KaiGywer
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:14 pm



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 16):
Like here in Minnesota



Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 16):
around here



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):

Where is "here"?

Minnesota  Smile
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flipdewaf
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:34 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
I have nothing against farmers, just the subsidies they receive. That and basically anythign to do with ethanol but we'll be wedded to ethanol as long as there's a caucus in Iowa that people care about. And the "thank a farmer" attitude can go too. When was the last time you thanked a garbage man? An oil rig worker? A fisherman? A teacher? Policeman?

Well I thank all of those people a hell of a lot, there is some problems with the subsidies but most people here have probably had a day off because they were ill, a lot of farmers can't do that its 7 days a week 52 weeks a year. We have a big problem here in britain because of the sheer amount of paperwork that farmers now have. A farmer who rents some of our fields from us has had to pay a fine to the gov't because his sheep stood for too long in one part of a field and made it too muddy.

Fred
Image
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:44 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):
He probably owns the farm, but doesn't work it. In fact some of the biggest government subsidy recipients live in Manhattan.

Relax, I'd imagine the thread starter's brother in law is receiving Canadian subsidies. Not a penny out of your pocket. Unless you believe in this NAFTA conpiracy nonsense Ron Paul is trying to feed us...

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 16):
No need to rest the field. Just rotate the crops. Like here in Minnesota, we grow two things...corn and soy beans. So a farmer will switch the crops in his fields every fall, and thus preserve the soil.

Ahh, I stand corrected. Thanks.  Smile

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MaverickM11
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RE: Farmers - Love 'em Or Hate 'em

Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:29 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 21):
Relax, I'd imagine the thread starter's brother in law is receiving Canadian subsidies. Not a penny out of your pocket.

Well I don't know a thing about Canadian subsidies, but just because I don't want them here doesn't mean I accept them there. It's rare that I meet a subsidy I like, so I imagine I wouldn't like the Canadian one either.
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