zrs70
Posts: 3314
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:32 pm

I witnessed something truly amazing the other day. A large group of protesters were marching against Israel. I see this often enough, and, while it bothers me, everyone has a right to his opinion. But what really got to me what the massive support from the Gay/ Lesbian community.

Don't GLBT realize that Israel is the ONLY country in the region that supports gay rights?
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:35 pm

You've given absolutely no point for reference. Which group was marching, and for which cause? Your post is confusing, to say the least.
International Homo of Mystery
 
zrs70
Posts: 3314
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:37 pm



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 1):
You've given absolutely no point for reference. Which group was marching, and for which cause? Your post is confusing, to say the least.

Point well taken. Sorry for the omission. It was at a GLBTQ pride parade. A sizable contingency was there in support of Palestine.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:38 pm

Gay Palestinians, perhaps?
International Homo of Mystery
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:05 pm

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "GLBTQ"
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:07 pm



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 4):
what is "GLBTQ"

Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgendered/Queer ::whew::  silly 

I'm still trying to figure out how this pride parade happened just the other day, when Pride was in June.
International Homo of Mystery
 
User avatar
yowza
Posts: 4275
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:01 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:09 pm



Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):
Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

You saw one mini protest that happened to have this group supporting the Palestinians. That's a far cry from "so many"

YOWza
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:10 pm



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgendered/Queer

Pretty much covers all the bases doesn't it.  Silly

Thanks.
 
zrs70
Posts: 3314
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:22 pm



Quoting YOWza (Reply 6):
ou saw one mini protest that happened to have this group supporting the Palestinians. That's a far cry from "so many"

I saw one parade the other day, but it was by no means the only time I have seen such support by the gay community. I have certainly not seen gay activists in support of Israel.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
I'm still trying to figure out how this pride parade happened just the other day, when Pride was in June

Don't spend too much energy trying to figure it out!  Smile
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:25 pm



Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 8):
I have certainly not seen gay activists in support of Israel.

Nothing stopping you from picking up a sign and doing so, is there?

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 8):
Don't spend too much energy trying to figure it out!  

This is A.net, I've come to expect to suspend my normal belief systems before signing on.  Wink
International Homo of Mystery
 
zrs70
Posts: 3314
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 3:28 pm



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
othing stopping you from picking up a sign and doing so, is there?

Well said, and I do. It's just a shame that others don't.
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:25 pm



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 7):
Pretty much covers all the bases doesn't it. Silly

Don't even get me started. . .  sarcastic 

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 8):
I saw one parade the other day, but it was by no means the only time I have seen such support by the gay community. I have certainly not seen gay activists in support of Israel.

Because its an issue that matters to you, I think you're just sensitized to it (not a bad thing, just an observation). I've lived all over the country, participated in many GLBT organizations and functions over the years, including parades, and can't say that I've noticed a bias one way or another. In fact I distinctly remember gay Jewish groups but can think of a single Muslim/Arab/Palestinian one.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
ORFflyer
Posts: 3142
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:42 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:50 pm



Quoting Searpqx (Reply 11):
Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 7):Pretty much covers all the bases doesn't it. Silly
Don't even get me started. . .   

???? Huh?
 
searpqx
Posts: 4173
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2000 10:36 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:05 pm



Quoting ORFflyer (Reply 12):
???? Huh?

One of my biggest gripes w/ the community - When it comes to PC, we take the cake. I've watched Gay & Lesbian morph over the last 10 years into LGBTQ, and who knows what's next.
"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:19 pm



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Gay/Lesbian/Bisexual/Transgendered/Queer

One of those "Diversity Specialists" at the University told me Q was for Questioning. So it actually stands for Queer?
I love ASO!
 
CO7e7
Posts: 2686
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:39 pm

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:08 pm



Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):
A large group of protesters were marching against Israel.

That doesn't mean they're supporting the Palestinians.

For example: Just because someone is opposed to the war in Iraq does not mean they're pro Al Qaida.

unless they were carrying Palestinian flags and anti-israel banners...

Quoting Zrs70 (Thread starter):
Don't GLBT realize that Israel is the ONLY country in the region that supports gay rights?

and your point is....................... just because someone is gay and israel supports gay rights, does not mean gays have to support israel.
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:26 pm

A lot of gays support Israel. A lot of gays support palestine. Just like everyone else. I think most likely that the gays who do support Palestine feel that they have something in common in that they feel oppressed, similar to the Palestinians.

-AA777
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:36 pm



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
Gay Palestinians, perhaps?

FInd me some openly gay Palestinians who aren't living in Tel Aviv...

Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 15):
just because someone is gay and israel supports gay rights, does not mean gays have to support israel.

No, but it is hypocritical to support liberal causes in the West like gay rights and then oppose the one liberal democracy in the Middle East that supports gay rights (which happens to be more advanced with gay rights then the United States...)

Quoting AA777 (Reply 16):
I think most likely that the gays who do support Palestine feel that they have something in common in that they feel oppressed, similar to the Palestinians.

Hah...Yeah i'm sure they'll feel oppressed when they're beaten to death if they proclaim their sexuality in Gaza or the West Bank...
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:03 am



Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
Gay Palestinians, perhaps?

Brings up a much more positive image of what a "Gaza Strip" or the "Westy Bank" is. With either, I would imagine that bronze bodies would be revealed.

Quoting Searpqx (Reply 11):
've lived all over the country, participated in many GLBT organizations and functions over the years, including parades, and can't say that I've noticed a bias one way or another.

Am I incorrect in thinking that this is at a college or university? I think that there tends to be much more of a left unification on campuses. I have the preception that feminist marches, GLBT, and left political marches all seem to have alot of the similiar groups going to them. I am sure that the right minded political students would do the same, but they seem to march and protest alot less. To busy doing taxes and listening to Rush I guess.  Wink
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
CO7e7
Posts: 2686
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:39 pm

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:39 am



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
FInd me some openly gay Palestinians who aren't living in Tel Aviv...

Excellent point. The palestinian culture is influenced by islam. In Islam homosexuality is forbidden. In fact, it is considered a crime punishable by death.

This is why 90% of gay palestinians live in West Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, and the other 10% aren't openly gay.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
No, but it is hypocritical to support liberal causes in the West like gay rights and then oppose the one liberal democracy in the Middle East that supports gay rights

i respectfully disagree with you, but i see your point.
 
MEA-707
Posts: 3666
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 1999 4:51 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:52 pm

It's a cultural thing I guess, like bonding with the enemies of your enemies.
In the USA and Europe, originally the pro Israel (political) groups are the more conservative/religious/establishment groups which are against gay rights. So often liberals/alternative/left wing groups have more sympathy for the underdog party in this conflict, the Palestinians.
But lately in the Netherlands for instance the gay community feels threatened by the increased presence of Muslims in their country, especially some young Moroccans can be agressive against gays. So you see the above trend reversed, that many gays switch to support right wing anti immigrant parties, as they discovered the conservative parties protect their rights more then the progressive pro immigration parties. A few years ago the popular anti immigration politician Pim Fortuyn was openly gay, it was interesting to see xenophobic and religious people then supporting a flaming gay leader.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
zrs70
Posts: 3314
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:46 pm

Interesting posts. In my experience, the religious left has been silent on much of these issues. We often hear about the religious right, and we figure that the left is atheist! But there are many gays in the religious left who support liberal causes. And Israel is a liberal cause as far as I am concerned!
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
AA777
Posts: 2358
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 7:07 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:23 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 17):
Hah...Yeah i'm sure they'll feel oppressed when they're beaten to death if they proclaim their sexuality in Gaza or the West Bank...

Whats your point RJ? Go to Alabama and 'proclaim' your sexuality and you can easily get beaten or killed. You might even get beaten or killed for being gay in New York City. And I have major doubts that it has never happened in Israel. And even if it has happened in the West Bank- it does not change the fact that Israel is an oppresive/ occupying nation.

-AA777

[Edited 2007-12-21 22:24:40]
 
zrs70
Posts: 3314
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2000 4:08 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:43 am



Quoting AA777 (Reply 22):
Go to Alabama and 'proclaim' your sexuality and you can easily get beaten or killed. You might even get beaten or killed for being gay in New York City

Difference is that homosexuality is a punishable crime is many Middle East countries.

Quoting AA777 (Reply 22):
nd even if it has happened in the West Bank- it does not change the fact that Israel is an oppresive/ occupying nation.

Leads to another question. Why is it popular to protest Israel and not the Sudan or Saudi Arabia or Pakistan or Egypt or Qatar or Syria or....
17 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2016
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:12 pm



Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 19):

Excellent point. The palestinian culture is influenced by islam. In Islam homosexuality is forbidden. In fact, it is considered a crime punishable by death.

Also in Christianity, homosexuality is forbidden (new testament) and punishable by death (old testament). Most Christians have leaned to conveniently ignore those biblical passages, however.

I think one possible reason for "GLTBQ" support for Palestinians is that they're used to taking the perspective of the oppressed underdog, be it gays in (past) Western culture or Palestinians in (today's) Palestine.
 
L410Turbolet
Posts: 5434
Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:12 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Mon Dec 24, 2007 1:39 am



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 20):
So often liberals/alternative/left wing groups have more sympathy for the underdog party in this conflict, the Palestinians.

Eurolefties have their priorities so messed up, it's often more important for them to manifest what they are against than what they are for. They probably too busy and too exhausted pushing through all the politically-correct and multikulti bs that they don't even notice how often they end up being strange bedfellows or playing useful idiots.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15265
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Mon Dec 24, 2007 4:25 pm



Quoting Joni (Reply 24):
I think one possible reason for "GLTBQ" support for Palestinians is that they're used to taking the perspective of the oppressed underdog,

It's probably because the vast majority of GLBT people are very liberal, especially the younger ones, and "Free Tibet/Palestine/Boulder" are all liberal causes, not conservative ones.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Mon Dec 24, 2007 5:51 pm



Quoting Joni (Reply 24):

Also in Christianity, homosexuality is forbidden (new testament) and punishable by death (old testament). Most Christians have leaned to conveniently ignore those biblical passages, however.

There are many contradictions in the bible and koran. I am not aware of any states that allow executing gays based upon christian beliefs, however. In what way is it "convenient"? Perhaps its just your anti-religious leanings.

Thus his point that some homosexuals may not be so keen to pick up the banner for the Palestinian cause. I don't see it happening, but it is a valid point. Is that so hard?
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:33 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 26):
It's probably because the vast majority of GLBT people are very liberal, especially the younger ones, and "Free Tibet/Palestine/Boulder" are all liberal causes, not conservative ones.

I'm a bit reluctant to label basic human rights a "liberal cause", they should be everyone's cause.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 27):

There are many contradictions in the bible and koran. I am not aware of any states that allow executing gays based upon christian beliefs, however. In what way is it "convenient"? Perhaps its just your anti-religious leanings.

I'm not aware that Palestinians execute gays either. Iran does, at least sporadically, and Christian countries have in the past. I see your point, however I don't agree that it makes any sense. It seems to boil down to "they have a similar religion to Iran, Iran executes gays therefore Palestinians should be treated like dogs".
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 21035
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:59 pm

I dont think its got anything to do with being Gay or straight. You get people with many different views in all communities. A small parade does not really represent any community. If I saw 200,000 Gays marching against Israel I might sit up and take more notice but Im sure this was just a small group of people who happen to be Gay and who happen to dislike Israeli policies.
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Tue Dec 25, 2007 2:26 pm



Quoting Joni (Reply 28):
It seems to boil down to "they have a similar religion to Iran, Iran executes gays therefore Palestinians should be treated like dogs".

Again, I don't think that there are many people out there who see it that way, but I am sure that some gays are aware that Iran (a country that has no gays-I guess they have hung all of them), Saudi, Syria, and a few other violently anti-gay countries have been basing 75% of their foreign policies around Palestine for the last 50 years.

Again, I think that most gays and lesbians are more liberally minded so this is an exception.

Throwing in the fact that "christians do bad too" is a red herring to the topic. Especially considering the vast differences in actions of hardcore muslim governments versus countries that are even heavily influenced by Christianity .
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Tue Dec 25, 2007 4:21 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 30):
Again, I don't think that there are many people out there who see it that way

Again, I don't think many people think Palestinians should be left to rot under Israel's occupation because many of them they share elements of their religion with Iran and Saudi-Arabia, who have specific policies gays may not agree with.

That would be almost like saying that it's OK if Belgians are oppressed because they, like the British who occupy Iraq, are Christians.
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:02 pm



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 25):
Eurolefties have their priorities so messed up, it's often more important for them to manifest what they are against than what they are for. They probably too busy and too exhausted pushing through all the politically-correct and multikulti bs that they don't even notice how often they end up being strange bedfellows or playing useful idiots.

Absolutely correct. Welcome to my RU list.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:55 pm



Quoting Joni (Reply 31):
Again, I don't think many people think Palestinians should be left to rot under Israel's occupation because many of them they share elements of their religion with Iran and Saudi-Arabia, who have specific policies gays may not agree with.

Man, you are out there. We were discussing possible gay motives for not sympathizing with the Palestinians. That is all. Capiche? Not whether or not they should be left to "rot". We were only discussing a possible perspective of some gays. Do you actually claim that no gays feel this way? That would be quite a broad generalization. But then again so is the fact that you believe all Palestinians are rotting under Israeli occupation.

Quoting Joni (Reply 31):
That would be almost like saying that it's OK if Belgians are oppressed because they, like the British who occupy Iraq, are Christians.

But you are missing the point. I would like to point out that the above situation you have concocted is ridiculous, implausible, and not even in the same league as the association in question.

Some people make those type of associations. Its a fact. I am not, but some do.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
UAL747
Posts: 6725
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 1999 5:42 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:43 pm

Quoting AA777 (Reply 22):
Whats your point RJ? Go to Alabama and 'proclaim' your sexuality and you can easily get beaten or killed. You might even get beaten or killed for being gay in New York City. And I have major doubts that it has never happened in Israel. And even if it has happened in the West Bank- it does not change the fact that Israel is an oppresive/ occupying nation.

-AA777

Well, that argument about the Palestinians feeling opressed could also be challenged by being sympathetic to the Jews because the Jews "were" oppressed for a long time as well. But I agree with you that it doesn't really matter what side you fall on, because there's going to be gays that support Israel, and gays that support Palestine. My point, and I think your point as well, is that there is going to be equal representation of both sides of the issue in the gay community, and really, the idea that there is some correlation between being gay and supporting Palestine is irrelevant and most likely does not exist. The original poster probably just saw something by coincidence and THAT fact doesn't support a world-wide support from gays for Palestine.

As for the issue at hand, I try to not touch it with a 40 foot poll, but in my mind, both sides are way off in every way, not just the Israelis. And the problem with both sides isn't the majority of the people, but a small minority of idiots that make news headlines and lead the world, Including Palestine and Israelis, into a increasingly larger battle of ideologies.

I also think interpretations have something to do with nationality, ethnicity, religious, and political affilation as well. Generally people of Arab descent or Muslims think the Palestinians are the opressed and Israel is the oppressor, and Israeli/Jewish descent thinks otherwise.

UAL

[Edited 2007-12-26 14:47:43]
"Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy. Bangkok Tower, United 890 Heavy.....Okay, fine, we'll just turn 190 and Visual Our Way
 
Dougloid
Posts: 7248
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:44 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:41 am



Quoting Joni (Reply 28):
I'm not aware that Palestinians execute gays either. Iran does, at least sporadically, and Christian countries have in the past. I see your point, however I don't agree that it makes any sense. It seems to boil down to "they have a similar religion to Iran, Iran executes gays therefore Palestinians should be treated like dogs".

Huh? WTF? Settle down there feller and have another tot of vodka in your koolaid, it'll steady yer nerves.

I doubt if there's going to be much slack for the next busload of drag queens that takes a wrong turn and ends up in Gaza.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
Flighty
Posts: 7683
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Why Do So Many Glbtq Support Palestinians?

Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:34 am

Gay people know what it is like to be demonized by huge, ultra-powerful masters of the world.

The Palestinians know what that feels like, too.

Since both groups are so commonly demonized, they are able to think critically about the PR demonization that goes on in our world. Just because somebody says Gays or Palestinians are a bunch of worthless people and/or threats to civilization, does not mean it is so.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: drew777 and 18 guests