LHMark
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Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:02 pm

I thought I might get through an entire holiday season without reading editorials about how people are trying to destroy Christmas. Nope. Columnist Roland Martin is here to bemoan the attacks on his holiday.

It seems the only people who perpetuate the idea that America is out to erase Christmas are the writers of these columns. Here's to fighting a cultural war that only exists in people's heads.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:10 pm

We could have made it here if you didn't start this thread. You are playing right into their hands.  bigthumbsup 
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LHMark
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:14 pm

I know. But it was just hanging there...
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
HickoryShampoo
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:20 pm

One of the things that pisses me off about this wave of PC is the "Holiday Tree" debacle. W(ho)TF else uses a fir tree decorated with little lights and ornaments? Thank The Generic, Non-Specific Ultimate Deity (If There Actually Is One) there is usually a Home Depot next to every Lowes.  Yeah sure

I'm also sick of having to think "Crap....did I see a prayer rug in that lady's apartment?" before I finally settle on "Have a happy holiday."

Rrrrgh....I'm off to light my Holiday Family Menorah.  banghead 
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RSWA330
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:16 pm

When you're forced to say "Happy Holidays" at work, it does irritate me. I wouldn't call it a war. I don't think people walk around thinking of ways to destroy Christmas. However, not being able to say "Merry Christmas" at work because you might "offend" people is ridiculous. Both sides are equally to blame for the Christmas fiasco. Non-Christians are to blame because they started the war in the first place by griping and complaining when people wished them a Merry Christmas. Christians are to blame because they keep playing this Christmas fiasco up and acting like everyone is out to get them (this is coming from a Christian by the way).
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:25 pm



Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 4):
However, not being able to say "Merry Christmas" at work because you might "offend" people is ridiculous.

My employer has actually instructed us to wish our customers a Merry Christmas and nothing else. This in addition to the pins we now wear that say Merry Christmas. Sure I know In-N-Out is Christian, but at least common sense prevails here.
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
Rara
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:09 pm



Quoting LHMARK (Thread starter):

It seems the only people who perpetuate the idea that America is out to erase Christmas are the writers of these columns. Here's to fighting a cultural war that only exists in people's heads.

Exactly. Thanks heavens someones else sees it like that.

Especially in this board, these days you have 20 comments a day saying something like "I call it Christmas, whatever the PC brigade thinks of it", "where has this world come to when you can't even celebrate Christmas" etc. etc. Now I've seen literally hundreds of these paranoid remarks and not a single voice of reason stating that Christmas is somehow politically incorrect etc. Moreover, whenever some well-meaning provincial company or whoever starts saying "happy holidays" because they want to be nice to their non-Christian employees or whatever, it seems like it's all over the media and everybody feels reassured that there's a large, threatening, anti-Christian movement somewhere "out there". Insane.

I reckon 99.9% of all people in the West, whether Christian, atheist or otherwise simply enjoy the Christmas holidays and think nothing more of it. But it's enough to have the occasional retard to challenge it to create a huge paranoid "countermovement" which apparently most of a.net belongs to.

Holiday tree my ass.... How many people do you personally know that advocate changing "christmas tree" into "holiday tree"? None? Me neither. But it was reported on FOX news, wasn't it, so it must be real.
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cytz_pilot
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:49 am

Quoting LHMARK (Thread starter):
I thought I might get through an entire holiday season without reading editorials about how people are trying to destroy Christmas.

Glad I'm not the only one to notice that! SAME OLD THING YEAR AFTER YEAR!!!!! It's like people have nothing left to complain about.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous how pissed off people get about it. "I'm so offended that I have to say happy holidays, blah blah wah wah..." Has anyone ever told you you can't say Merry Christmas? The prevelence of the Happy Holidays alternative comes from companies & government organizations, whose customers and constituents celebrate many holidays this time of year. When they use it, all they're saying is 'best wishes from us to you' anyway! Why is that offensive?

BESIDES...these people are complaining because it's an assault on Christmas. And yet, they accept with open arms the fact that rampant commercialism has turned Christ's birthday into some kind of demented bastardized orgy of Capitalism anyway! Have you seen commercials and ads these days? Computers, cars & diamond jewelry for Christmas gifts???
This year, give the gift of suffocating debt!

Maybe they'd be happy if every instance of Happy Holidays was replaced by Krusty the Klown's multi-denominational wish for his fans - I wish you all a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Kwazy Kwanza, tip top Tet, and a solumn, dignified Ramadan.

[Edited 2007-12-20 16:51:53]
 
LHMark
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:57 am



Quoting Cytz_pilot (Reply 7):

BESIDES...these people are complaining because it's an assault on Christmas. And yet, they accept with open arms the fact that rampant commercialism has turned Christ's birthday into some kind of demented bastardized orgy of Capitalism anyway! Have you seen commercials and ads these days? Computers, cars & diamond jewelry for Christmas gifts???

Good point. It's like gay marriage being an assault on marriage, when the real problems come from poor spousal choice, spiralling divorce problems and no respect for the institution between heterosexual partners.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
767Lover
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:08 am



Quoting Rara (Reply 6):
Especially in this board, these days you have 20 comments a day saying something like "I call it Christmas, whatever the PC brigade thinks of it", "where has this world come to when you can't even celebrate Christmas" etc. etc. Now I've seen literally hundreds of these paranoid remarks and not a single voice of reason stating that Christmas is somehow politically incorrect etc.

That's because you are a university student and not in the corporate world where people get their panties in a wad over whether to use green and red and the words Christmas.

In fact, there are a number of cities and towns that actually forbid public displays of anything "Christmas."

So yes, it does happen. And I know because I've been on the receiving end of such mandates.
 
halls120
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:33 am



Quoting LHMARK (Thread starter):
I thought I might get through an entire holiday season without reading editorials about how people are trying to destroy Christmas.

Is Christmas in danger of being "destroyed?" Of course not. That is simply an overreaction.

Quoting Cytz_pilot (Reply 7):
Has anyone ever told you you can't say Merry Christmas?

Yes and no. At work, we've been told we can't have Christmas parties - we can only have holiday parties. But it doesn't stop me from wishing people a merry christmas.

Quoting Cytz_pilot (Reply 7):
The prevelence of the Happy Holidays alternative comes from companies & government organizations, whose customers and constituents celebrate many holidays this time of year. When they use it, all they're saying is 'best wishes from us to you' anyway! Why is that offensive?

Because I should be able to celebrate any holiday I wish to observe without having to make it a generic event. I don't get offended if someone delivers a greeting to me that is based in a religious or cultural practice I don't follow, and likewise, if I want to say Merry Christmas to someone, they shouldn't be offended.

Too many people are simply too da*n sensitive these days.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Mir
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:06 am



Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
My employer has actually instructed us to wish our customers a Merry Christmas and nothing else.

And that's just as silly as forbidding it. I wish people would stop getting so damn uptight about what terminology should be used.

-Mir
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Charles79
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:14 am

It's kinda sad that I was watching the NBC Nightly News and they spent about 5 mins on this "war on Christmas". Slow news day? Not really, the BBC News had a whole report on the humanitarian situation in Somalia...but wait, we don't want real news, so we waste our time bickering over irrelevant stuff. I'm a Christian and will continue calling it a Christmas tree, but if somebody asks me to say happy holidays instead (particularly an employer during work hours) I'm not going to make a big deal out of it. Why do we waste so much time in this country discussing non-issues? It's disturbing.
 
garnetpalmetto
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:26 am

And I'm sorry, forget X-M-A-S. Malcolm X? Yes. X replacing Christ? No.

This is perhaps one of the most annoying arguments by those complaining about the so-called "War on Christmas." Their arguments are based on sheer ignorance it seems. Martin, like so many, propagates this idiocy. "X" has been used as shorthand for Christ for at least 1000 years and can be found pretty frequently in other Christian symbols like the labarum and the ichthys. One of the biggest problems I have is that people tend to know so little about their own faith and it fuels the kind of misguided views about this time of the year.
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halls120
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:28 am



Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 13):
Their arguments are based on sheer ignorance it seems. Martin, like so many, propagates this idiocy. "X" has been used as shorthand for Christ for at least 1000 years and can be found pretty frequently in other Christian symbols like the labarum and the ichthys. One of the biggest problems I have is that people tend to know so little about their own faith and it fuels the kind of misguided views about this time of the year.

I remember seeing "Merry Xmas" on handmade decorations in my school classroom - years before this whole ridiculous argument was put forth.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
N1120A
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:42 am



Quoting HickoryShampoo (Reply 3):
One of the things that pisses me off about this wave of PC is the "Holiday Tree" debacle. W(ho)TF else uses a fir tree decorated with little lights and ornaments?

Um, the pagans are the ones who actually invented the whole tree thing  Wink

Quoting RSWA330 (Reply 4):
When you're forced to say "Happy Holidays" at work, it does irritate me

I don't know anyone who is forced to say that.

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
Sure I know In-N-Out is Christian, but at least common sense prevails here.

That isn't common sense, it is them forcing that "common sense" on their work staff and patrons.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
At work, we've been told we can't have Christmas parties - we can only have holiday parties.

And that makes sense, seeing that you work for the government. Still, it shouldn't stop you from having a tree, a menorah AND a Festivus pole  Wink

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
But it doesn't stop me from wishing people a merry christmas.

Not should it

Quoting Mir (Reply 11):

Quoting JetsGo (Reply 5):
My employer has actually instructed us to wish our customers a Merry Christmas and nothing else.

And that's just as silly as forbidding it. I wish people would stop getting so damn uptight about what terminology should be used.

Bingo. I say everything from Merry Christmas to Happy Hollidays (though I despise the way Seasons Greetings sounds). I tell Jewish friends Happy Hannukah. It is no big deal.

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 14):

I remember seeing "Merry Xmas" on handmade decorations in my school classroom -

Must be a crazy L.A. thing, because we did the same thing  Wink
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halls120
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:52 am



Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
At work, we've been told we can't have Christmas parties - we can only have holiday parties.

And that makes sense, seeing that you work for the government. Still, it shouldn't stop you from having a tree, a menorah AND a Festivus pole

well, we have no tree. Not allowed. When the building management (we are in leased office space) put one up in the lobby a few years ago, they were asked to remove it, but they refused, thankfully.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:53 am



Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 13):
"X" has been used as shorthand for Christ for at least 1000 years and can be found pretty frequently in other Christian symbols like the labarum and the ichthys.

X, the Greek letter Chi, is the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ
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bok269
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:59 am

From a Jewish perspective...

Schools should not have any tree or decorations from either holiday. A Christhmas tree is not a holiday tree, as my old middle school tried to ensenuate. It doesn't belong in a government facility.

With the whole Merry Christhmas/Happy Chanukah debate it's a matter of courtesy. I have no problem admitting that it makes me feel awkward to be wished a Merry Christhmas. In my mind, wishing someone a Happy holidays is a more courteous and considerate greeting if you don't know what they celebrate. If you are talking to people you know celebrate Christhmas, I see know problem wishing them a Merry Christhmas whether you are with non-christians or not.
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Falcon84
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:59 am



Quoting LHMARK (Thread starter):
It seems the only people who perpetuate the idea that America is out to erase Christmas are the writers of these columns.

And the ACLU, and those who invented Kwanzaa, and those who are athiest, and those who simply think it's terrible that some people might feel left out because Christmas is a Christian holiday.

And all those people are out to erase Christmas, in many ways. It's called PC, LHMARK, and it's a powerful force.

To them, I say "Merry Christmas".
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
ltbewr
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:23 am

Currently I am working the Christmas season as an associate at a branch Macy's in New Jersey. I use usually use the term Happy Holidays as while a majority of the customers I serve are 'Christian', there are also Jews, Muslims, non-Chrisitan south Asians and so on.
 
cumulonimbus
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:25 am

At work today I actually got pulled to the side because I said the words "Merry christmas" by the Head of Operations.. He told me to say "Happy Holidays instead so I do not offend people. I proceded to tell him "Merry Christmas" and continued on my day.

I am just waiting to see if he wrote me up for saying that to him.


Mike
 
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:01 am



Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 17):
X, the Greek letter Chi, is the first letter in the Greek spelling of Christ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ

I know that and you know that - but the whacked out imbeciles who take every word their ill-educated pastor says verbatim don't know that - therein exists the problem.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:20 am

In France they now minimize Christmas, they take Christmas trees off the schools or else rename them "Trees of Life" (my *rse) not to offend the now large muslim community. You hardly ever hear anyone saying "Joyeux Noel" (Happy Christmas) any longer as if it was by fear...
The politically correct is winning, especially with the three female members of the Government who are muslims, Yade, Dati and Amara.
I guess some day in a near future the name Christmas will even be taken off the official calendars. Give it another generation and it will be gone.  Angry
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:27 am



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 23):
they now minimize Christmas, they take Christmas trees off the schools or else rename them "Trees of Life" (my *rse) not to offend the now large muslim community

-
No Muslims are offended by Christmas trees. But Atheists may be .
-

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 23):
three female members of the Government who are muslims, Yade, Dati and Amara.

oh, your "fascist" has three Muslima in the government ? Isn't that nice ?  Big grin

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 23):
in a near future the name Christmas will even be taken off the official calendars. Give it another generation and it will be gone. Angry

it will be re-named into "A'id al-Issa"
 
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ManuCH
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:41 am



Quoting 767Lover (Reply 9):

Quoting Rara (Reply 6):
Especially in this board, these days you have 20 comments a day saying something like "I call it Christmas, whatever the PC brigade thinks of it", "where has this world come to when you can't even celebrate Christmas" etc. etc. Now I've seen literally hundreds of these paranoid remarks and not a single voice of reason stating that Christmas is somehow politically incorrect etc.

That's because you are a university student and not in the corporate world where people get their panties in a wad over whether to use green and red and the words Christmas.

I think it might also be a difference among countries. Rara is from Germany. I am from Switzerland, and the PC Happy Holidays crap hasn't arrived here yet either - luckily. We wish our customers Merry Christmas, period, and that's how everyone else does it.

We even have a Jehovah's Witness among our work colleagues, and guess what - we talked to him saying we knew that he didn't celebrate Christmas, but that we wanted to have a small Christmas party at work, so we told him that he didn't have to join us if this would have offended him. He told me that he was glad to join us, but that *we* shouldn't be offended if he didn't wish anyone Merry Christmas, because for his religion it's only important not to wish Merry Christmas to others himself, and that the rest of the world is free to do what they please. That's what I call respect - everyone can do what he likes and believes in. As opposed to telling others what to do.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:50 am



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 25):
Rara is from Germany. I am from Switzerland, and the PC Happy Holidays crap hasn't arrived here yet either - luckily. We wish our customers Merry Christmas, period,

-
"Frohe Festtage" is simply a combination of Christmas AND New Year
 
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ManuCH
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:11 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 26):
"Frohe Festtage" is simply a combination of Christmas AND New Year

Right. We actually have the same in Italian, "Buone Feste", but it wasn't introduced because of some political correctness - it has just always been here, and it's a different way of saying it.

My point was that in this country I haven't been aware of anyone actually changing what they wish because of fear of offending someone. Even in primary/elementary school they still have real Christmas parties  Smile

I think for most people, including me, this whole Merry Christmas thing isn't really about religion - it's more about "local uses and costumes". Even if you don't have any religion to believe in, you wish Merry Christmas or whatever, because that's just how it has always been: a tradition. And that's why I hope it will remain the same in the future. Others should kindly adapt to, or at least tolerate, our traditions when visiting us, just as we do when we visit abroad. I won't go to Tel Aviv, Rihad, New Delhi (disclaimer: these were just examples  duck  ), wishing people Merry Christmas  Wink
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Maverick623
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:17 am



Quoting HickoryShampoo (Reply 3):
One of the things that pisses me off about this wave of PC is the "Holiday Tree" debacle. W(ho)TF else uses a fir tree decorated with little lights and ornaments? Thank The Generic, Non-Specific Ultimate Deity (If There Actually Is One) there is usually a Home Depot next to every Lowes.

In all fairness, the "Christmas Tree" idea was stolen from the Pagans....
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 11:50 am

yeah... among whom one of them being very well known for her fake diplomas!!  yuck  The two others being known for not having much schooling either.

I wonder how they ever ended so high up in the government. This is one more of Sarko's tricks.  Big grin

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 24):
oh, your "fascist" has three Muslima in the government ? Isn't that nice ?

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FlyKev
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:16 pm

You know what? This entire thread angers me.
Why?
Because there shouldn't be a "war on christmas".
I am atheist. I don;t give a flying **** if you wish me merry xmas, happy hanukkah or a happy Kwanzaa.
If you feel that you should be celebrating something right now, then you should have NO shame covering up, hiding stuff just to not offend people. I fail to see why someone who is Jewish, would be offended by someone who says Happy Christmas. Its just 2 words, and does NOT apply any offense what-so-ever, its just a sign of friendliness that people offer to each other once a year. And you know what, I have been wished Merry Xmas by people I know that are Jewish, Hindu and Muslim. I wished them it back. Its just a sign of politeness at this time of year.
Christmas trees - Besides the word "christ", how can a tree offend anyone? Our one here hangs baubles, miniature toy soldiers and lights. Whats offensive about that? Its no more decorative than having a statue or painting put up. The only thing that offends people is the name. Get over it. Its a tree. its not a sign that we don;t care about your religion and we hate you, its just something nice that livens up the room.
For me Christmas is a time where people get together, and have a good time with each other.
So tell me, those who are offended by "Christmas", tell me, why am I not offended by you celebrating your religious events, which, you are more than welcome to celebrate, just as Christians celebrate their religious events. The only difference, is that Christmas has a lot more coverage, as it is the largest religion in the west.
So to all A.net members, I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Kev.
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aloges
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:23 pm

Sometimes I have to wonder where people find fault!  rotfl 

Quoting Cytz_pilot (Reply 7):
BESIDES...these people are complaining because it's an assault on Christmas. And yet, they accept with open arms the fact that rampant commercialism has turned Christ's birthday into some kind of demented bastardized orgy of Capitalism anyway! Have you seen commercials and ads these days? Computers, cars & diamond jewelry for Christmas gifts???
This year, give the gift of suffocating debt!

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark  The one thing that might one day offend me in the Christmas season is ads for EUR 2.000,- TV sets, EUR 10.000,- jewellery and so on. Buy tickets for a cruise holiday if that's your thing, or fly your family first class to Finland to meet Santa if you want expensive, but damnit, spend it on yourself (and your loved ones). Don't abuse Christmas as an excuse to spend more than you can afford on useless junk because ads tell you to and you have to keep up with the Johnsons.

Quoting Charles79 (Reply 12):
It's kinda sad that I was watching the NBC Nightly News and they spent about 5 mins on this "war on Christmas". Slow news day? Not really, the BBC News had a whole report on the humanitarian situation in Somalia...but wait, we don't want real news, so we waste our time bickering over irrelevant stuff.

Sad, but true... same for equal rights for homosexuals, those divas in professional sports and far too many other things.

Quoting ManuCH (Reply 25):
I think it might also be a difference among countries. Rara is from Germany. I am from Switzerland, and the PC Happy Holidays crap hasn't arrived here yet either - luckily. We wish our customers Merry Christmas, period, and that's how everyone else does it.

 checkmark  However, the German word for "Christmas" is "Weihnachten" which would literally translate to "Holy Night". That right there is a difference. We also have "Frohes Fest" which is "Happy Holidays" in German, but was around long before political correctness had even been thought of; let alone bastardised, abused and twisted the way it is today.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
helvknight
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:26 pm

Actually how many of these "War on Christmas" stories actually check out and how many are wild exaggerations put about by various folks (particularly the Xtian right) to portray themselves as victims being discriminated against by the evil PC brigade

One that gets trotted out regularly in the UK is the allegation that Birmingham council renamed Christmas Winterval when in fact Winterval was a three month festival to get people into the city centre. It encompassed all the major UK winter ïnterfaith and secular events ranging from Christmas to Diwali and even Bonfire night (when we celebrate the only man to ever enter Parliament with honest intentions - Guy Fawkes) It got picked up as a replacement for Christmas by the tabloids which ignored the fact that Brum actually did have some pretty good Christmas decorations up.
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aloges
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 1:45 pm



Quoting Helvknight (Reply 32):
Winterval

The wikipedia article on that had a link to a Guardian (I know, Grauniad...) article on "The phoney war on Christmas": http://www.guardian.co.uk/christmas2006/story/0,,1967367,00.html

Quote:
Luton council, we are told, has banned people from celebrating Christmas. Birmingham has renamed the season Winterval. A Reading man has been told to take his decorations down. There's only one problem with the 'PC campaign' against Christmas - it's pure nonsense.

Should be interesting reading.
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:04 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 29):
This is one more of Sarko's tricks. Big grin

Whatever, he brought three Muslima into his government, which is a positive step. And he took the Socialist founder of "Medecins sans frontieres" into his cabinet as well, which is a good idea as well. Why seeing it all as a sinister plot ?
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767Lover
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:08 pm



Quoting FlyKev (Reply 30):


For me Christmas is a time where people get together, and have a good time with each other.

Kev.

Good post.

For me and most people I deal with every day, the "Christmas Season" is not a religious observance per se but a time to celebrate humankind, spend time with people socially (whether work parties or family gatherings) and most importantly, help those less fortunate through charity work and donations.

The season provides a good excuse for organizations to sort of wind down and bond. I know several organizations and work groups that have gone out and done charity work as a group during the season. On a social note, one of my clients invited me to a White Elephant gift exchange for the whole department. Everyone had a great time laughing at who got what gift and whose stole whose gift. People met people in other departments for the first time. People were in a good mood and got to know one another a little better, which always helps when you are trying to work with others in a company.

I find it interesting that of the 2 people who have actually sent me greetings with the words "Merry Christmas," both are Jewish. Perhaps they do this because they know that when it comes to Jewish holidays, they don't want anyone altering tradition, so they don't want to do the same when referring to Christmas observance.
 
HickoryShampoo
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:56 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 15):
Um, the pagans are the ones who actually invented the whole tree thing



Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 28):
In all fairness, the "Christmas Tree" idea was stolen from the Pagans....

I'm fairly confident trees evolved from single-cell organisms.  Wink I don't argue on the origin of the tradition, especially since Christians don't worship trees.
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skidmarks
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:33 pm



Quoting Halls120 (Reply 10):
Is Christmas in danger of being "destroyed?" Of course not. That is simply an overreaction.

It's far too late for that. Christmas has completely lost it's original meaning, except for a few around the world and is instead an excuse for an orgy of spending and peurile inanity in order to boost the profits of multi-billion companies.

I often wonder what would happen if everyone said "No presents, dinners, parties etc this year. Let's just have a quiet family get together". Apart from several stores going bankrupt and certain whiners having nothing to whine about, not a lot would affect the people. Apart from having some money in the bank for January, not getting stressed about what to buy, how much to spend (on credit) and who to invite.

Nope, it's time Christmas was scaled down from the lunacy it's become to a more civilised and cheaper occasion.

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UTA_flyinghigh
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:35 pm

Ho ! ho ! ho !  stirthepot 

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mirrodie
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:40 pm

You know what? Let the idiocy persist. I don't allow myself to get wrapped up in the BS.

If I say "Merry Christmas" , someone will get offended.

If I then say "Happy Holidays" I get the "No, we say Merry Christmas!!" and they are subtly offended.


I'll do what I do and will teach my family the same. THat is:

"Do you celebrate Chanukah, or Christmas or any other holiday?" If the answer is yes, say the appropriate thing.
Then it becomes known that you give a damn about wishing well.
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EWRCabincrew
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 3:52 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 24):
But Atheists may be

Not here.

We have a tree and decorate the front yard, wreaths and all. We celebrate the holidays. Christmas and New Years. You don't have to be a Christian to get in the mood. Not all atheists are bah-humbug.

On that note, Merry Christmas!!!  santahat 
You can't cure stupid
 
ac888yow
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:19 pm

Only the crazies think there is a war on Christmas, or that it is somehow being destroyed. The grinch tried that a long time ago, but he failed miserable because the Who's wouldn't allow it. In that great cartoon Dr. Seuss taught us that if we who celebrate Christmas keep the spirit alive and well within us, nothing nor anyone can destroy it.

However,

I think there is some legitimate concern by rational people over what is undoubtedly a diminishing mention and presence of Christmas tradition this time of the year.

When I was a child we had Christmas concerts at school, we went Christmas carolling, people gave and received Christmas cards, people erected Christmas trees, and so on.

Here in Ottawa at least, it is an increasing rarity to find any mention of Christmas in schools or in the shops around town. Case in point, I was recently invited by my goddaughter's parents to her "winter" concert at her elementary school. Her school even erected a "holiday" tree. Stuff like that annoys me a bit, but I won't lose any sleep over it.

I understand that as time goes by we are ever-evolving and welcoming people of different faiths and backgrounds, but that doesn't mean we should forego our traditions in the process. In the case of the schools, parents of Jewish, Muslim, Atheist, etc. children can and should withdraw their children from events like the Christmas concert if it goes against their beliefs and they wish not to participate.

For example, as a child I attended a Catholic school even though I am a Christian. Once a week there was mass, and (I think) once a month there was holy communion. As a non-Catholic I sat politely in the mass without celebrating and abstained from the holy communion. Other children did as well. There was even a supervised classroom reserved for those children whose parents didn't even want them to be present during the mass/communion.

There are ways to accomodate everyone without foregoing longstanding traditions.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:16 pm



Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 41):
to find any mention of Christmas in the shops around town.

In Zurich it is mentioned in all the shops
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for German speakers here an interesting link
www.vioz.ch/2006/20061218_Swissinfo_...achtsbaum_bleibt_in_der_Schule.pdf
in which I find the statement of Professor Amin most interesting
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and THIS tree is the centre of the Christmas-market inside Zurich-main-rail-station


Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 41):
people gave and received Christmas cards

no longer cards, but E-messages ! But also cards in considerable quantities
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N1120A
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:33 pm



Quoting Bok269 (Reply 18):
A Christhmas tree is not a holiday tree, as my old middle school tried to ensenuate.

Well, as long as it has a star (from the pagan tradition) and not an angel on top, I don't have a problem.

Quoting Bok269 (Reply 18):

Why do you add the h?

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):

And the ACLU, and those who invented Kwanzaa, and those who are athiest

Oh get over it. There are several atheists here who have absolutely no problem with Christmas

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 19):
and those who simply think it's terrible that some people might feel left out because Christmas is a Christian holiday.

Um, first off, the Christians borrowed it. Second, I never feel left out.

Quoting HickoryShampoo (Reply 36):

I'm fairly confident trees evolved from single-cell organisms.

THAT IS ANTI-CHRISTIAN AND PART OF YOUR WAR ON CHRISTMAS  Wink

Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 42):

and THIS tree is the centre of the Christmas-market inside Zurich-main-rail-station

I have a colleague who should be getting to Zurich Hauptbahnhof any minute now. I am sure his son will love that awesome tree.
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AirTranTUS
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:49 pm

Here is a good article from an opinion writer in Tucson today. I like his term for Happy Holidays: "horse effluvium".

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/opinion/72074.php

Sounds like more people are waking up (or growing up) and bucking the outrageous PC trend.
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HickoryShampoo
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:54 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):
THAT IS ANTI-CHRISTIAN AND PART OF YOUR WAR ON CHRISTMAS

Not really (and I understand your post was in jest). At risk of derailing this thread, I submit that I consider myself Christian. While I don't attend worship services very often, I still hold to the values with which I was raised in the Methodist church. That being said, I was also raised by a mother whose education and career was based in natural science (micropaleontology). No one force-fed me anything. I just gravitated toward evolutionism over creationism. Besides, what follower of creationism can say definitively that God didn't initiate evolution?

But I digress. Murray Creased-Mouse (-Moose for our Canadian friends).
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bok269
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RE: Here It Comes. The "War On Christmas

Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:24 pm



Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):

Well, as long as it has a star (from the pagan tradition) and not an angel on top, I don't have a problem.

In my mind, an evergreen tree with ornaments, lights, and red and green decorations is definately a religious symbol, and as such, has no place in a school or public building nor does a Menorah or any other religious item.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 43):

Why do you add the h?

Bad spelling on my part...  banghead   embarrassed 
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