MadameConcorde
Topic Author
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FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:03 pm

FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics
$1 Billion Project to Include Images of Irises and Faces

By Ellen Nakashima
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 22, 2007; Page A01

CLARKSBURG, W. Va. -- The FBI is embarking on a $1 billion effort to build the world's largest computer database of peoples' physical characteristics, a project that would give the government unprecedented abilities to identify individuals in the United States and abroad.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...007122102544.html?nav=rss_business

 Yeah sure
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
MaverickM11
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:28 pm

I wouldn't be surprised if Tesco already has a larger database of personal information
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
mham001
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:40 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
I wouldn't be surprised if Tesco already has a larger database of personal information

Give up any semblance of privacy, big business knows more about you than the government ever will, and if the government wants it, they can just buy it from big business like everybody else.

California now collects and stores DNA from every person who is arrested for a felony. Thats right, ARRESTED, not convicted. It takes additional proceedings for the acquitted to have it purged.
 
Blackbird
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:16 pm

This is obviously a serious problem, especially if the data is obtained by arrest not by conviction. Privacy is becoming a thing of the past. And it's happening quick.

Andrea Kent
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:18 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
I wouldn't be surprised if Tesco already has a larger database of personal information

I about spit out my tea.  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Chances are that is part of the new background checks (again) we are getting next year ('08).
You can't cure stupid
 
mham001
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:41 pm

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
This is obviously a serious problem, especially if the data is obtained by arrest not by conviction. Privacy is becoming a thing of the past. And it's happening quick.

And unbelievably, it was voter-instigated through the initiative process.

edit:grammar.

[Edited 2007-12-23 13:42:31]
 
fumanchewd
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:44 pm

I'm actually with blackbird on this one. Things are going too far. At what point does the government believe that they do not have access to everything about us?

I for one already am in a DOC database with fingerprints, eye scans, and a DNA profile. It sure the hell wasn't voluntary though.  Smile
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
huskyaviation
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:44 pm



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 5):
And unbelievably, it was voter-instigated through the initiative process.

Your personal characteristics are not something that is covered by privacy. Do you have any expectation of privacy in preventing the world from knowing how tall you are? No.
 
Springbok747
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:45 pm

Where's that image of the tin foil hat....?

Um why are people freaking out about this? Isn't biometrics already used in certain airports to identify people?
אני תומך בישראל
 
aloges
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:49 pm

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 2):
big business knows more about you than the government ever will

Big business has DNA profiles and can legally (though through legal backdoors) pass them on to other nations? Big business runs vast CCTV systems? Big business has my fingerprints? I think not.

I'm really looking forward to the day when this data-collecting madness ends just like the McCarthy era ended... although I'm not sure it ever will, and even less sure I'd want to see how (or why) it ends. Wouldn't it be lovely to know some genius hacker has just obtained access to the DNA profiles of several hundred million people?

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 8):
Um why are people freaking out about this?

due to the tremendous potential for abuse and the fact that a government spying on its own citizen (read: not trusting them at all) is not trustworthy itself

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 8):
Isn't biometrics already used in certain airports to identify people?

And that is wrong. I shouldn't have to provide fingerprints upon entering the US, there should be no hackable RFID chip in my passport and my government should not be hell-bent on storing as much info on my personal telecommunication habits as it can. Whose business is it what websites I visit when there's no reason to suspect me of anything? Why do they want to use spyware* to snoop on people? That is all wrong, wrong, WRONG.

* not the best article, but I found little useful info on it in English

[Edited 2007-12-23 14:02:20]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
avt007
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:49 pm

Time to move to Montana and build a bunker..................  biggrin 

I'm already fingerprinted, iris scanned, and all that stuff most aviation people go through, and frankly, I don't care.
If the FBI wants my file, they're welcome to it. Now, I only say that since I need access to the States to do my job. If I never travelled there, they have no right to the data, any more than any other country. But since I pay my taxes, and live a crime free life, government databases don't worry me for a second.
 
Blackbird
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:11 am

Sadly, it seems, nobody will really make a big deal out of this until it's too late to do anything.

Andrea Kent
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:56 am



Quoting Avt007 (Reply 10):
If the FBI wants my file, they're welcome to it.

We're Sector 7 thank you very much. The FBI...pffffffffffffft.

Anyway, you have a point. I read up on you. Every tidbit, and frankly, I want my 10 minutes back. You're boring dude. Seriously, go rob a Tim Horton's or something. Square.  Wink

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 11):
Sadly, it seems, nobody will really make a big deal out of this until it's too late to do anything.

Do not question my authoritai!!!!!!! Now submit already!

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ORFflyer
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:13 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 11):
Sadly, it seems, nobody will really make a big deal out of this until it's too late to do anything.

Come on Andy - run on down to the government offices. Tell em your sick of this crap, and that they need to stop it.

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 10):
But since I pay my taxes, and live a crime free life, government databases don't worry me for a second.

There you have it folks - why worry unless you have something to worry about.
 
Pope
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:18 pm

Anyone been to Disney and purchased an annual pass? What do you think is being collected when you put your hand in in the machine when you activate the card for the first time and ever time thereafter you enter the park?

I for one would be completely for biometric database if it would stop me from having to take off my shoes and belt every time I went through an airport security line. However, people seem to have no problem giving the big mouse their biometric data so that they can go in an out of WDW without trouble yet object to handing over the same data to the government when it could actually save lives.
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:21 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 11):
Sadly, it seems, nobody will really make a big deal out of this until it's too late to do anything.

Don't do anything illegal and you have nothing to worry about. Oh, and Walmart is having a sale on tin foil.


It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
ShyFlyer
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:36 pm

The only thing I'm worried about is the government spending a lot of money on such a system, only to end up with something that doesn't even work.
I lift things up and put them down.
 
mham001
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:09 pm



Quoting Aloges (Reply 9):

Big business has DNA profiles and can legally (though through legal backdoors) pass them on to other nations? Big business runs vast CCTV systems? Big business has my fingerprints? I think not.

Big business has far more than your simple description. They know when and where you go, with whom, what you buy, what you eat, drink, etc. How is a record of my iris more harmful?
 
PPVRA
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:53 pm

Yeah but big business can't arrest you, throw you in jail, ruin your life and it's voluntary for you to be part of it. You get to say no. Government isn't anything like that. There's nothing big business can do with your info that would do you much harm, unless they divulge it, which in turn you can and should sue the life out of them.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
MDorBust
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:03 pm



Quoting Aloges (Reply 9):
there should be no hackable RFID chip in my passport

You can always "hack" your own passport... with a hammer.

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 12):
We're Sector 7 thank you very much.

The people over at Public Security Section 9 would like a word with you.

Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
Anyone been to Disney and purchased an annual pass? What do you think is being collected when you put your hand in in the machine when you activate the card for the first time and ever time thereafter you enter the park?

What's truly scary is how warm the Disney print reading machines are... I think they are taking samples to clone a new army of overnight maintenance workers.

Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
I for one would be completely for biometric database if it would stop me from having to take off my shoes and belt every time I went through an airport security line.

Heck, I'm for it if it can cut down the number of ID's I'm required to carry from seven to one.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Blackbird
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:54 pm

Fumanchewd wrote:
I'm actually with blackbird on this one. Things are going too far. At what point does the government believe that they do not have access to everything about us?

Simple answer, they *don't* believe they do not have a right to access everything to know about us.


Airfoilsguy,

The Constitution is supposed to restrict government invasion of privacy; There should be limits as to what the government is allowed to gather on it's population; on members who have committed no crimes.


Andrea Kent
 
aloges
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:59 pm



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
They know when and where you go

If I didn't participate in the railways' loyalty programme, always paid for my tickets with cash and didn't have their discount card, they'd have no way at all of knowing except sending someone to follow me. Obviously, the same does not apply to the little bit of air travel I do.

Likewise, if I paid for everything with cash, no one but my bank (through cash withdrawal records) would be able to even vaguely track me provided I don't check into a ho(s)tel. I'd have to stop using my mobile phone and possibly, some tracking could be done through the IP addresses I access the web from, but off the top of my head, that's it.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
with whom

How? Rail tickets can easily be anonymous, car journeys are and when you visit people, there aren't any ho(s)tel records either.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
what you buy

Again, I can pay with cash if I don't want my purchases to be associated with my plastic money.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
what you eat, drink

And yet again, how? Unless I tell people what I've got in my fridge, how is anyone going to find out? I don't buy groceries online, hardly ever go to a restaurant let alone one belonging to a chain corporation and there aren't any bulky types in black suits and sunglasses near checkout in the supermarkets I shop at.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 17):
How is a record of my iris more harmful?

It (and DNA records as well as other highly personal info) is because it's mandatory, *
- a form of identification rather than market research
- stored on government computers (highly attractive to hackers from, say, the PR of China)
- quite happily passed on to agencies from foreign nations that have no business accessing my data
- a crass breach of secrecy (that I as a med student would get in trouble for)
- appeasement of "safety fascists" (quoting, IIRC, David Dimbleby) who think permanent surveillance is needed and able to make this world a perfectly safe place - Where will that lead?
- if integrated into RFID chips in ID documents it's accessible to hackers as demonstrated with a British passport

And most importantly, I cannot bring myself to trusting any form of agency or government that thinks I myself am so untrustworthy they need to keep an eye on me 24/7.

* quotes and links on request, can't be bothered to look for them if no one's going to look at them anyway  Wink
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
LH459
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:39 pm



Quoting Aloges (Reply 21):
Rail tickets can easily be anonymous

Not if you're travelling with Amtrak. They now require an ID from anyone purchasing a ticket, regardless of form of payment, and your name is on the ticket. Not as anonymous as it used to be!
"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is temporary; the evil it does is permanent" - Ghandi
 
aloges
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sat Dec 29, 2007 12:22 am



Quoting LH459 (Reply 22):
Not if you're travelling with Amtrak.

Bit of a niche player though, aren't they?  Wink Interestingly enough, even Greyhound Lines (who in Europe, I'd venture to say, are synonymous with American intercity bus services) apparently are beginning to require photo ID upon boarding: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_Lines#Security
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:59 am



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 19):
The people over at Public Security Section 9 would like a word with you.

Oh, there just pissed off 'cuz I swiped a box of pens from the main office. Besides they're just mad cuz they lost the coin toss for which group gets Andrea Kent.

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
mham001
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sat Dec 29, 2007 5:50 am



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 20):
The Constitution is supposed to restrict government invasion of privacy; There should be limits as to what the government is allowed to gather on it's population; on members who have committed no crimes.

Not that I necessarily disagree with your sentiment, but where does the Constitution mention privacy?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 21):

And yet again, how? Unless I tell people what I've got in my fridge, how is anyone going to find out? I don't buy groceries online, hardly ever go to a restaurant let alone one belonging to a chain corporation and there aren't any bulky types in black suits and sunglasses near checkout in the supermarkets I shop at.

You as a medical student will not live in the world long on cash. Few people do here and those who do find themselves limited. The world is moving to plastic, like it not. You can opt out of some things but nearly every transaction is recorded in some way. Where I shop, if I want the sales price for substantial savings, i have to swipe a card, cash or credit. Sure you can hide, but you won't get far, future doctor. All that information collected and is for sale to the highest bidder. To think you are not tracked is naive and it's not the government doing it.
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:04 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 12):
Seriously, go rob a Tim Horton's or something. Square.

I would, but the lineups are too long, and we Canadians don't like to jump the queue!

Quoting Pope (Reply 14):
I for one would be completely for biometric database if it would stop me from having to take off my shoes and belt every time I went through an airport security line.

Now that would be good. I fly for business all the time, and it'd be nice to look in the scanner and carry on to the flight, and bypass all the security mess. It's one of those nonsensical things- as one of our pilots once put it, "you either trust us, or you don't". Maybe I'll save that for another thread, though.  Wink
 
Boeing4ever
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:46 pm



Quoting Avt007 (Reply 26):
I would, but the lineups are too long, and we Canadians don't like to jump the queue!

Really? Then how do you explain the summer of '05 incident.  eyebrow 

Remeber, Sector 7 knows all.  devil 

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avt007
Posts: 1989
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:37 am



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 27):
Then how do you explain the summer of '05 incident.

I'm not at liberty to discuss that incident, which may or may not have occurred, at a date/time/place where I may not have existed. If you were familiar with Protocol 46, you wouldn't have asked that question.  talktothehand 
 
cfalk
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:54 am



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 2):
California now collects and stores DNA from every person who is arrested for a felony. Thats right, ARRESTED, not convicted. It takes additional proceedings for the acquitted to have it purged.



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
This is obviously a serious problem, especially if the data is obtained by arrest not by conviction. Privacy is becoming a thing of the past. And it's happening quick.



Quoting Aloges (Reply 9):
due to the tremendous potential for abuse and the fact that a government spying on its own citizen (read: not trusting them at all) is not trustworthy itself

Boy, the paranoids are out in force today. Interesting how some of the same people who say that government should provide our health care and old age financial security should not have a reliable way to know who you are.

Keeping such a database allows law enforcement a better chance of finding a criminal after a crime, and that helps to save lives. The argument that it is a violation of privacy is an empty one. Privacy involves the protection of what you do (with your money, sex, personal acquaintances, etc.) But if you feel that hiding your identity or personal attributes is also a right, then we should also remove all pictures from passports and drivers licences, and remove any descriptive features like hieght, eye color etc.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
baroque
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:01 am



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 4):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 1):
I wouldn't be surprised if Tesco already has a larger database of personal information

I about spit out my tea.

Expect to find the UK version available real soon now as a DVD on the seat of a tube train near you.  Wow!
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:49 am



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
Boy, the paranoids are out in force today.

Can I return that in some "OMG Arab Terrorists!" thread?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
Interesting how some of the same people who say that government should provide our health care and old age financial security should not have a reliable way to know who you are.

Oh, the government may very much know who I am, no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is members of the government (German Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble) wanting to know who I write e-mails to*, who I call and when and which websites I visit**. All of this is surveillance madness and leads to tremendous amounts of useless data lying around taking up resources that should be used for target-oriented investigations.
In other words, I'll trust the government with the data I agree they need. That'd be tax data, employment record, social security stuff and the like. What they don't need and have no business of knowing is e.g. my e-mails to my girlfriend.

Nice try, though. Social security vs. surveillance paranoia, that's a new one.

* which in itself is ridiculous because every single wannabe terrorist with half a brain knows to use unsecured third-party WiFi for his internet communication and to save e-mails online rather than sending them. Link in German: http://www.dradio.de/dlf/sendungen/hintergrundpolitik/712711/

** a problem as demonstrated in the latest child porn/justice scandal in Germany: Out of a record 12.000 suspects, most will prove to have been suspected wrongfully. For instance, a public prosecutor in Cologne says that out of 500 suspects in that city, no more than a handful will be charged with a crime. Link in German: http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/0,1518,525785,00.html
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
baroque
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:14 am



Quoting Aloges (Reply 31):
What they don't need and have no business of knowing is e.g. my e-mails to my girlfriend.

C'mon, Aloges, I never thought you were a meanie!!

Quoting Aloges (Reply 31):
All of this is surveillance madness and leads to tremendous amounts of useless data lying around taking up resources that should be used for target-oriented investigations.

Therein may well lie the real rub. When I see what is done to scientific data greedily hoarded into a one size fits all database, it is horrifying. And if the data does not fit the database format, well it can be squeezed in. Which very soon leads to garbage in and garbage out.

You have to wonder what the real use is for all the surveillance footage in large cities these days, OK some criminal efforts might be caught, but what are the protocols for using it and how do we know that material is not transposed?
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:37 am



Quoting Aloges (Reply 31):
What I do have a problem with is members of the government (German Interior Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble) wanting to know who I write e-mails to*, who I call and when and which websites I visit**.

What does that have to do with biometrics and means of identifying you physically?

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 29):
Privacy involves the protection of what you do (with your money, sex, personal acquaintances, etc.) But if you feel that hiding your identity or personal attributes is also a right, then we should also remove all pictures from passports and drivers licences, and remove any descriptive features like hieght, eye color etc.

The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:08 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 33):
What does that have to do with biometrics and means of identifying you physically?

The applications of that:

Quote:
And in the coming years, law enforcement authorities around the world will be able to rely on iris patterns, face-shape data, scars and perhaps even the unique ways people walk and talk, to solve crimes and identify criminals and terrorists.

Catching criminals and preventing terrorism are of course desirable, but the question is whether comprehensively collected DNA profiles, iris scans and then info on the "way people walk and talk" (which is what Schaeuble is hell-bent on) help so much at those that the massive intrusion into privacy, potential for error and abuse, deviation of manpower and the low rate of actual convictions are justified. I don't think so.

What, for instance, if someone accused you of some obscure crime that can hardly be verified and your totally unrelated presence at the scene (verified by a hair you lost there weeks earlier), combined with your communication and movement patterns, lead to charges being pressed? Wouldn't it be better to rely on actual evidence rather than profiling in such cases?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
cfalk
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:06 pm



Quoting Aloges (Reply 34):
What, for instance, if someone accused you of some obscure crime that can hardly be verified and your totally unrelated presence at the scene (verified by a hair you lost there weeks earlier), combined with your communication and movement patterns, lead to charges being pressed? Wouldn't it be better to rely on actual evidence rather than profiling in such cases?

DNA evidence IS 'Actual Evidence' - far better than an eyewitness or such things.

And evidence is what it is. If DNA shows that I was at the scene of a crime, what are the circumstances? Was the scene a nightclub or a private bedroom? Was I at the scene the day before? Nobody I can think of has ever been convicted simply from DNA (or fingerprints) without also tying that into motives, character etc.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
Blackbird
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:12 pm

Mham001,

Quote:
And unbelievably, it was voter-instigated through the initiative process.

One problem I have with the voter initiative process is that people get caught up in trends... whether it be one thing or another. Oh sure it happens to legislatures too, but you get a population that doesn't even understand or respect the constitution and they are going to initiate legislature that's likely to be against the constitution.

I am not the type of person to say that sometimes people need to be protected from themselves, but this would be one case where I could argue it.


Andrea Kent
 
Queso
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:35 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 3):
Privacy is becoming a thing of the past. And it's happening quick.

How much of your own biometric information goes "the government" have? How did they get it? What can they do with it?

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 11):
Sadly, it seems, nobody will really make a big deal out of this until it's too late to do anything.

Does it not frighten you that you are expediting the process by posting on a public forum? Anywhere you go on the internet, you are leaving an IP address "trail" and accepting cookies that can be used to track every website you've been to.

What are YOU doing to "make a big deal out of this"?
 
Blackbird
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:03 pm

If I didn't go online to post, I wouldn't be able to get a message out very far now would I? Plus I routinely delete cookies and don't post on many forums.


Andrea Kent
 
bagpiper
Posts: 1050
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RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:10 pm

So? Big whoopdy-doo!

If you don't commit a crime, then they will never use that information against you. If you DO commit a crime, you need to be caught, and this will help in that.

Sure, if they take pictures of people's genitals for a "database", that is too far. But DNA? Thats fine. Crime scenes are covered in DNA, and if they can match it in a heartbeat, good for them!

I'd even voluntarily send in my hair samples or what not for a DNA database.

If you're scared about this, do you have something to hide?
 
avt007
Posts: 1989
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2000 4:51 am

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:31 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 37):
Does it not frighten you that you are expediting the process by posting on a public forum? Anywhere you go on the internet, you are leaving an IP address "trail" and accepting cookies that can be used to track every website you've been to.

Note to self- It's time to "drop off the grid".

Fellow Anetters- please burn this post after you read it.  stirthepot 

Seriously people, paranoia can get out of hand. First you're worried about the grocery store watching what you buy, then it's cookies seeing where you surf, then it's the government mapping your genome. Next thing you know, you're in a cabin out in the boonies with a cache of supplies, multiple firearms, and boobytraps in the woods!

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 12):
I read up on you. Every tidbit, and frankly, I want my 10 minutes back. You're boring dude.

Here's a newsflash- "They" don't care about you. "They" aren't watching you. "The process" doesn't exist.
 
Blackbird
Posts: 3384
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 1999 10:48 am

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:19 pm

Bagpiper,

The "If you don't commit a crime you shouldn't care" is not in line with the Constitution, which forbids unnecessary search and seizure. The Constitution places limits on what the government is allowed to do.

And I don't think that being able to gather biometric data on people on arrest is a good idea -- on conviction is one thing -- but on arrest is another thing.


Andrea Kent
 
bagpiper
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:24 pm

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:32 pm



Quoting Blackbird (Reply 41):
Bagpiper,

The "If you don't commit a crime you shouldn't care" is not in line with the Constitution, which forbids unnecessary search and seizure. The Constitution places limits on what the government is allowed to do.

And I don't think that being able to gather biometric data on people on arrest is a good idea -- on conviction is one thing -- but on arrest is another thing.


Show me, tell me, or whatever, how your:

height
weight
eye color
face shape
finger prints
ear lobe size
palm print
walking style

is personal information, protected against unnecessary search and seizure?

I can go to the local airport, and get thousands of those pieces of information a day - sure, not linked to the name, address, etc, but still. Its not private information.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Mon Dec 31, 2007 2:38 am



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 35):
Nobody I can think of has ever been convicted simply from DNA (or fingerprints) without also tying that into motives, character etc.

Character... precisely what I meant with "communication and movement patterns". So, here we are: I think all this data collecting mania may lead to an increased number of false positives (and in the end, wrongful convictions), you don't. I further think we'll just have to agree to disagree.  Wink

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 40):

Quoting Queso (Reply 37):
Does it not frighten you that you are expediting the process by posting on a public forum? Anywhere you go on the internet, you are leaving an IP address "trail" and accepting cookies that can be used to track every website you've been to.

Note to self- It's time to "drop off the grid".

one word: Tor (that and similar services)

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 40):
Seriously people, paranoia can get out of hand.

That is exactly the point I'm trying to make! My DNA profile being stored somewhere will probably not hurt me one single tiny little bit. But what is it stored for? It's utterly pointless and, among other things, one more campaign issue for politicians catering to security-obsessed - read: scared - voters. Same for biometric data, how exactly has the need for secure identification of the (travelling) public suddenly risen to a level that was until recently known only at high-risk government buildings and the like?

And finally, is Mr. Plane Bomb Terrorist Guy really going to get his hands on high-tech explosives, a failsafe detonator, a clean credit card and what else it is you need to stay off a no-fly list, smuggle it all to the airport completely undetected and then get caught because of his ID documents?! To me, a lot of this "heightened security" is just smokescreens for a gullible public - which I hate to have to hand over my data for.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
bagpiper
Posts: 1050
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:24 pm

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:18 am



Quoting Aloges (Reply 43):
And finally, is Mr. Plane Bomb Terrorist Guy really going to get his hands on high-tech explosives, a failsafe detonator, a clean credit card and what else it is you need to stay off a no-fly list, smuggle it all to the airport completely undetected and then get caught because of his ID documents?! To me, a lot of this "heightened security" is just smokescreens for a gullible public - which I hate to have to hand over my data for.

Why is everything about terrorism now? Yes - its a threat - but there is still plain old street crime out there. And tons of un-solved cases. Question is, how much is the government willing to pay to cut down on those cases, and possibly solve some of those unsolved ones? And at what price?

One billion? Seems expensive... but I think this will help cut down on crime. Except for the new cybercrime type stuff, which is one reason I'm really interested in cybercrime and that aspect of law enforcement, and am looking forward to possibly studying that in college next year (local college has a decent program in it).
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:44 am

I keep telling you guys this shit is coming, but a lot of you don't believe it. The VChip, the opening of borders, the dissolution of nations. All this crap is coming down the road, and by the time you realize what's happening, corporations and the ultra-rich will be running the world even more than they are now, and you won't be able to do a damn thing about it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Boeing4ever
Posts: 4479
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:52 am



Quoting Avt007 (Reply 28):
I'm not at liberty to discuss that incident, which may or may not have occurred, at a date/time/place where I may not have existed. If you were familiar with Protocol 46, you wouldn't have asked that question.

See this? This is like a "Do whatever I want and get away with it badge". I'm the government! I AM THE LAW! I refer you to Protocol 57, section 27, paragraph 8, line 9, word 20..."beef".

Authorized by Supreme Big Cheese Chancellor Papa Bear Cheney himself.

Quoting Queso (Reply 37):
How much of your own biometric information goes "the government" have? How did they get it? What can they do with it?

I have all of it. I'm actually in the process of analyzing Andrea Kent's DNA for my report to my superiors now. Ever handled a penny? The we have your DNA. Why do you think we keep them in circulation...

Quoting Queso (Reply 37):
Does it not frighten you that you are expediting the process by posting on a public forum? Anywhere you go on the internet, you are leaving an IP address "trail" and accepting cookies that can be used to track every website you've been to.

What are YOU doing to "make a big deal out of this"?

Actually, we got her by putting tracking devices in the spine of a fake book about the F-15 we wrote and made sure wound up in her hands.

Quoting Blackbird (Reply 38):
If I didn't go online to post, I wouldn't be able to get a message out very far now would I? Plus I routinely delete cookies and don't post on many forums.

Doesn't help. Your cookies are backed up on our servers in Langley in real time. You're looking at some serious treason charges, Miss. Kent.

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 40):
Here's a newsflash- "They" don't care about you. "They" aren't watching you. "The process" doesn't exist.

Yeah...that's our *official* line.  Wink

 airplane B4e-Forever New Frontiers airplane 
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:50 am



Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 44):
Why is everything about terrorism now?

I suggest you ask those politicians who benefit the most from that fear.  Wink
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:54 am



Quoting Aloges (Reply 47):
Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 44):
Why is everything about terrorism now?

I suggest you ask those politicians who benefit the most from that fear.

As Tom Lehrer famously said:

"I hope they are half as scared as I"

where "they" in this case means both the Terry Wrists of this world and the pollies.
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: FBI Prepares Vast Database Of Biometrics

Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:03 pm



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 46):
Authorized by Supreme Big Cheese Chancellor Papa Bear Cheney himself.

I can't believe you just "outed" me! Cheese, shotguns, conservative......I'm surprised it too you so long though.  rotfl 

Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 46):
I have all of it. I'm actually in the process of analyzing Andrea Kent's DNA for my report to my superiors now. Ever handled a penny? The we have your DNA. Why do you think we keep them in circulation...



Quoting Boeing4ever (Reply 46):
Actually, we got her by putting tracking devices in the spine of a fake book about the F-15 we wrote and made sure wound up in her hands.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 45):
I keep telling you guys this shit is coming, but a lot of you don't believe it.

I want to believe it, I really do, because it looks like you guys have a lot of fun with it. I have friends that play World of Warcraft and they want me to get into that too but I just have this "reality" block that keeps getting in the way.

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