Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:31 pm

The death of Miss Bhutto is just a drop in the ocean of radical islamisation going on all over the Muslim world.
Algeria had more than 100.000 of it's own citizens killed by "brother "Islamic fanatics,Gaza strip is basically an uncontrollable ghetto run by blindfold Hamas leaders,if Cairo would let the Islamic brotherhood loose,the country would be converted into a strong-islamic state,IRan leaders dream about having the nucleus to demonstrate their strenght and Afghanistan is basically re-ruled by the Taliban's.
Any serious suggestions ?
While politicians scratch their heads how to prevent moderate Muslims to be overrun by their more radical opponents,the west looks ,comments and has no answers.
As a longtime resident of the Middle East I see the future of moderate Islam in bleak colours.The current events in Pakistan and Afghanistan,Somalia and Sudan show no real breakthrough of moderate voices.
Across the Mediterranean sea,Algeria is not stable as it should be - and although Libya's leader has been received and treated as "honorable" leader by Europeans ,he still remains a sick lunatic .
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
N74JW
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:31 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:32 pm

No, not in my opinion. Every religious group has it's radical sects. It is the way it is...
rm -r *
 
UH60FtRucker
Posts: 3252
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:15 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:46 pm

Well no doubt, the Islamic-apologists will swarm this thread, and remind us how evil everyone else is, and how we're falsely characterizing Mulsims. And heck, there's even a good chance this thread is locked or deleted.

We simply cannot honestly discuss Islam, and the harm it is creating, on the forums of Anet. It is literally the hottest issue, at the moment.

So to answer the question - we need to isolate them. Stop buying their oil. Stop supporting their murderous regimes. Stop catering to a religion that claims to be one of peace... but actively supports a global war.

-UH60
Your men have to follow your orders. They don't have to go to your funeral.
 
airtran737
Posts: 3221
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 6:57 pm

It sure is. You need the following.

http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/103969.jpg



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/B1-B_Lancer_and_cluster_bombs.jpg

http://mattortega.com/wordpress/images/us-military-seals.jpg

and last but not least

http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/060618-N-8492C-212.jpg
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
CO7e7
Posts: 2686
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:39 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:05 pm

There is a way to stop them. But i don't think the mods on a.net will let us freely discuss this topic.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
We simply cannot honestly discuss Islam, and the harm it is creating, on the forums of Anet.

 checkmark  I honestly don't want to get banned for voicing my opinion. So if you really wanna know my answer, IM me.
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:17 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
The death of Miss Bhutto is just a drop in the ocean of radical islamisation going on all over the Muslim world.
Algeria had more than 100.000 of it's own citizens killed by "brother "Islamic fanatics,Gaza strip is basically an uncontrollable ghetto run by blindfold Hamas leaders,if Cairo would let the Islamic brotherhood loose,the country would be converted into a strong-islamic state,IRan leaders dream about having the nucleus to demonstrate their strenght and Afghanistan is basically re-ruled by the Taliban's.
Any serious suggestions ?
While politicians scratch their heads how to prevent moderate Muslims to be overrun by their more radical opponents,the west looks ,comments and has no answers.
As a longtime resident of the Middle East I see the future of moderate Islam in bleak colours.The current events in Pakistan and Afghanistan,Somalia and Sudan show no real breakthrough of moderate voices.
Across the Mediterranean sea,Algeria is not stable as it should be - and although Libya's leader has been received and treated as "honorable" leader by Europeans ,he still remains a sick lunatic .

I'm also very worried about the Islamistic countries , just some days ago I read an interesting article . The author had the opinion that the big problem was to tolerate the islamisation , and always say the typical crap : Most muslims are good just 0.0009 % are Radical .. I doubt 0.0009% could survive if the Rest 99% would be against them , so there is a toleration if not a sympathy for that Radical groups like Al Qaida etc .

For German Speakers here's the Article , i recommend it . As left as I am and as much as I like , I really think an isolation of Ajmadinejad
is vital , someone should get Chavez to cooperate on this !

http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/0,1518,518750,00.html

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):

Well it's a good life insurance not just for America also for Europe !
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
N74JW
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:31 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:19 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Reply 2

Fella, you could not have hit more square, if you had used a AGM-114.

I agree 100%
rm -r *
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:32 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):

We usually don't have the same opinions but I agree with you on this point completely , the main Problem is we are dependent of that Oil !

Isolation , would be good , but you need China and Russia to cooperate , and that would be pretty difficult .

I'm glad Germany is starting to stop commercial Relations with Iran just a total isolation mainly economic can bring a Regime like the Iranian is under Pressure , and under Pressure of the own people - the most effective pressure .


We have to invest in renewable energy , a disentanglement of the dependence would be the end for the Radical Islam .
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10889
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:51 pm



Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
Stop buying their oil

Exactly right.

Yea maybe if these stupid people stop buying Hummers and SUVs. I mean sure some people in certain areas of the country need them but some just buy them for the sake of having them. That's great but to drive a vehicle that gets 10 MPG makes no sense and just lines the pockets of the middle east. I by no means drive a small car but it averages 25 MPG. Now if everyone drove a vehicle like that just think how much the demand for oil would go down, how much the price of a barrel of oil would drop. Makes you wonder.


Radical Islam is stopable but we need to do more.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:55 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 8):

Radical Islam is stopable but we need to do more.

We have to move our A**** , no Problem will solve by itself , but we do have some good leverages.
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:18 pm

It is quite entertaining to hear the opinions of quite a few A.netters as to how to deal with this problem... especially considering most of you know nothing about the region. And that includes you, UH60 - you have been exposed to what most Arabs view as the most violent country in the region, and you have not properly been exposed to Arab culture.

First of all, let me start by saying that I do agree that we have a huge problem - I am not denying this in any way. What I am disagreeing with here is two things - what people see as the cause of the problem and the solutions people seem to think will work.

Quoting UH60FtRucker (Reply 2):
So to answer the question - we need to isolate them. Stop buying their oil. Stop supporting their murderous regimes. Stop catering to a religion that claims to be one of peace... but actively supports a global war.

This thinking is extremely dangerous. All of the oil-producing Middle Eastern countries, with the exception of Saudi Arabia and Iraq, are very stable countries. Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, the UAE, and Oman are all developing at insane rates, with extremism being a very small issue in all of the said countries. Not buying oil from the Middle East as a whole would just destroy the economies of the said countries and create even larger problems for the West. Furthermore, IMO the single largest base of extremism lies in Pakistan - a country with no oil whatsoever, and one that is not even Arab.

Isolating over 1,000,000,000 people is just not possible, and is a very dangerous way of thinking, especially when a large portion of today's Islamic extremism came as a direct result of the West; if you cannot appreciate where the problem came from, you cannot solve it.

Lets look at some of the facts:
-Prior to the last couple of decades, Hamas was insignificant, and the Palestinian resistance movement was purely secular. In fact, many Palestinian freedom fighters in the 1960s were aethiest; Hamas was funded in the 1970s by Israel in order to counter the threat of the PLO. This is well documented, and sources confirming this can be found by running a simple google search.
-Hezbollah only arose in order to counter the Israeli occupation of Lebanon; another group created by the West.
-Al Qaeda and their likes were also funded and brought to power by the West; the US funded them as part of their very short sighted cold war policy.

So, the 3 main Islamic terrorist organizations that most Westerners hear about were all indirectly created by the West. To get supporters, they need to have causes. The West has also conveniently provided these:
-In Saudi Arabia, the extremely corrupt ruling regime has been supported by the US since it first came into power. Wahabism, the basis of today's extremist Islamism, was created and spread in/by Saudi Arabia. So basically the US supported the most extreme country in the Middle East and allowed it to export its extreme Islamism. Mind you, Islam was only spread by the Al Sauds to gather support; they themselves have always been famous for their lack of morals, and as a result many ordinary Saudis hate them. Combine this with the various wars supported by the West in the region and you have the perfect recipe for disaster.
-In Iraq, the US invaded for no good reason, and for years had sanctions in place that killed many Iraqis. In Palestine, the US supports Israel blindly. In Iran, the US has supported brutal regimes and killed the only chance the country had at proper democracy.
-Egypt is another example of a corrupt leadership being supported by the US. How do you think this makes the Egyptian people feel?

Do all these things mean nothing? Do you not thing that after all of the different things done by the West in the Middle East, someone was bound to get pissed off?

The solution is to not give these people any causes to gather around. The damage has already been done, but continuing to support regimes such as Mubarak's and the Al Sauds will do nothing but make matters worse. The same goes for the continued support of Israel and the wars such as the Iraq war.

Most of you are completely blind to the reasons behind why such blind hate and extremism exists in the region. This is because most Americans are completely ignorant to the history of the region, and had never known a damn thing about it up until 9/11.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 3):
It sure is. You need the following.

The funny thing is that the extremists have the same exact concept about how to deal with Americans. They think terror is the solution, and you think terror is the solution.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:18 pm

The only way is to educate people from the ground up. But that will only have an effect in the long run. Radical religious groups are there in every religion. Just look at the violence happening in India now..between the Hindus and the Christians.

Firepower won't work...really. How can we kill each and every one of the scum causing the problem? We can't..no matter what we use.
אני תומך בישראל
 
N74JW
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:31 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:32 pm



Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
Most of you are completely blind to the reasons behind why such blind hate and extremism exists in the region. This is because most Americans are completely ignorant to the history of the region, and had never known a damn thing about it up until 9/11.

You had me until that passage, there you are wrong. The only way to defeat any enemy is to destroy their capability to make war. Extremist mullahs are perverting their faith to suit their own agendas. It is very difficult, but not impossible to take away someone's faith.

The U.S. is far from innocent when it comes to politics in the Middle East, but we are not the sole nation who is responsible. This and future American generations are going to pay for the deeds done by the generations past. The people guiding Al Qaeda are the most virulent scum on the planet, and they need to be dealt with in a way they will understand. Lack of understanding on our part has cost the U.S. dearly, but we are not all as ignorant as you claim.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
The funny thing is that the extremists have the same exact concept about how to deal with Americans. They think terror is the solution, and you think terror is the solution.

Al Qaeda has very little power if you were to actually look at them and their capabilities. The U.S. Armed Forces, with the kid gloves removed, could easily pass them from organization into history. Al Qaeda has the most to lose from this engagement, and the peaceful folks of the islamic world need to address the dirt in their house.
rm -r *
 
airtran737
Posts: 3221
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:34 pm



Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
The funny thing is that the extremists have the same exact concept about how to deal with Americans. They think terror is the solution, and you think terror is the solution.

Not at all. I think peace can be achieved with superior firepower. I also believe that any act of aggression against our society needs to be re-visited upon the aggressor in even greater strength.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
LHStarAlliance
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Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:36 pm



Quoting QR332 (Reply 10):
This thinking is extremely dangerous. All of the oil-producing Middle Eastern countries, with the exception of Saudi Arabia and Iraq, are very stable countries. Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait, the UAE, and Oman are all developing at insane rates, with extremism being a very small issue in all of the said countries. Not buying oil from the Middle East as a whole would just destroy the economies of the said countries and create even larger problems for the West. Furthermore, IMO the single largest base of extremism lies in Pakistan - a country with no oil whatsoever, and one that is not even Arab.

You can choose of what countries you buy or not .. you can buy to the UAE but not to the Saudis or Iran .
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
qr332
Posts: 2592
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:16 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:53 pm



Quoting N74JW (Reply 12):
You had me until that passage, there you are wrong. The only way to defeat any enemy is to destroy their capability to make war. Extremist mullahs are perverting their faith to suit their own agendas. It is very difficult, but not impossible to take away someone's faith.

So lets say you kill a thousand terrorists. Do you really not think that there aren't people out there who will replace them in an instant? The War on Terror has been ongoing for 6 years now... do you honestly think that the capabilities or the numbers of the terrorists are any less than before? If anything, they are stronger as a result of the war on Iraq. Destroying a nation's capability to make war is much easier than destroying the capability of an enemy who lives as part of society like you and me.

Quoting N74JW (Reply 12):
The U.S. is far from innocent when it comes to politics in the Middle East, but we are not the sole nation who is responsible. This and future American generations are going to pay for the deeds done by the generations past. The people guiding Al Qaeda are the most virulent scum on the planet, and they need to be dealt with in a way they will understand. Lack of understanding on our part has cost the U.S. dearly, but we are not all as ignorant as you claim.

No, you are not the sole reason, and I did not mean to imply that. Many other examples can be seen of Western countries screwing the Middle East over; the French in Algeria, the British in Egypt during the Suez Canal crisis, etc. But, you cannot deny that in today's world, the US are the ones in charge, and they are the ones who have been pretty much directing policy in the Middle East.

As for the part about ignorance, with all due respect the average American is quite ignorant when it comes to the Middle East. How many Americans, for example, do you think are aware of the history that has led up to the Middle East's current situation?

I'll give you a simple example: one thing many Americans have against Iran is the hostage crisis of 1979. But, what constantly shocks me is how little background Americans have as to why it happened. Very few Americans know that the reason it occured was because of the Mossadeq coup of 1953, carried out by the CIA, which led to 26 years of very harsh rule by the Shah and his secret police, the SAVAK.

Quoting N74JW (Reply 12):
Al Qaeda has very little power if you were to actually look at them and their capabilities. The U.S. Armed Forces, with the kid gloves removed, could easily pass them from organization into history. Al Qaeda has the most to lose from this engagement, and the peaceful folks of the islamic world need to address the dirt in their house.

I wasn't referring to their military capabilities - most of them are complete idiots with very basic training, and I have no doubt they would be destroyed in an instant by US forces.

What I was referring to was the basic idea that these types of problems are solved by violence. You could bomb the living shit out of every city in the Middle East, and it would only make the situation worse, because what you are dealing with here isn't a unified force, but an ideology more than anything. Similarily, the extremists seem to think that if they bomb and terrorize the West, the West will leave the Arab/Muslim world alone. The constant support of violence from both sides is what fuels these conflicts on and on.

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 13):
Not at all. I think peace can be achieved with superior firepower. I also believe that any act of aggression against our society needs to be re-visited upon the aggressor in even greater strength.

But how do you pick where to strike? If a Saudi terrorist from Riyadh were to strike in the US today, would you bomb the living shit out of Riyadh just because that was where he lived?
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
N74JW
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:31 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:19 pm



Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
Do you really not think that there aren't people out there who will replace them in an instant?

No, not in the slightest. Terrorists are like drug dealers in that regard. If one falls, there are a dozen more ready to take the place. Attrition in that manner does send a message, even to those who are not afraid to die and to those who look forward to martyrdom. Trust me, deep down everyone everyone gets afraid once they realize the next moment could be their last.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
Destroying a nation's capability to make war is much easier than destroying the capability of an enemy who lives as part of society like you and me.

Is it? Where does a normal military base come from? Society,,,

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
But, you cannot deny that in today's world, the US are the ones in charge, and they are the ones who have been pretty much directing policy in the Middle East.

I would say oil and money is the game in th M.E. The U.S. and the Saudis are the key brokers. Both parties follow the money.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
How many Americans, for example, do you think are aware of the history that has led up to the Middle East's current situation?

Have you met every American? Blanket statements like that do not help your argument. You are right regarding the CIA's debacle in Iran. Even then, do you think the average American and the judicial part of the U.S. govt were aware of the facts at that time? I read 'A Legacy of Ashes' a couple of months ago, and was astounded at the cavalcade of CIA screw-ups committed around the world since it's inception. The CIA's effort to thwart Communism cost the U.S. a great deal, whilst not really fighting Communism at all. Those hostages taken in 1979 had nothing to do with what happened in 1953. How just was that?

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
the extremists seem to think that if they bomb and terrorize the West, the West will leave the Arab/Muslim world alone.

That ideology has not worked out too well for them. Al Qaeda is casting their own kind a very negative light to millions of ignorant Americans who allegedly control things over there.... and whom are armed to the teeth.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
But how do you pick where to strike? If a Saudi terrorist from Riyadh were to strike in the US today, would you bomb the living shit out of Riyadh just because that was where he lived?

I know exactly how one would handle that...
rm -r *
 
LHMark
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2000 2:18 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:21 pm



Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 13):
Not at all. I think peace can be achieved with superior firepower. I also believe that any act of aggression against our society needs to be re-visited upon the aggressor in even greater strength.

None of which you'll bear the responsibility of wielding. UH60 flies missions there, and his posts on the subject are far less bombastic than yours. Remind us again why you're not wearing a uniform? Flat feet, was it?
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:24 pm

Here's my 0.02:

All these radical clerics in the west that are preaching hate, need to get booted out. Don't imprison them where they will fester and preach their trash.

Stop supporting the Saudis. Wahabiism is a powder keg.

Pakistan is the boil where all of this is breeding. The place needs to be cleaned up. Musharaf is pretty much status quo; this is totally unacceptable. AQ Khan should have been snuffed.

Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
As for the part about ignorance, with all due respect the average American is quite ignorant when it comes to the Middle East

The world is filled with ignorant people, your statement is not accurate.

al-Qaeda is rabidly looking to strike back at the US, and they may be successful some day. But the day that a real WMD goes off in Baltimore, Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, etc, expect a reply of draconian proportions. Al-Qaeda cares not about the innocent people that get killed, they only care about their perverted view of how Islam should be advanced to every person on the globe.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
windshear
Posts: 2258
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:38 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 7):
We usually don't have the same opinions but I agree with you on this point completely , the main Problem is we are dependent of that Oil !



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 7):
We have to invest in renewable energy , a disentanglement of the dependence would be the end for the Radical Islam .

 rotfl 
I think the above is one of the sneakiest left-wing agenda moves I have seen, this week!
Well done my man Big grin

As for the subject... Oh nothing much, except that others have tried and failed, outside A.net as well  Wink

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman
 
airtran737
Posts: 3221
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:43 pm



Quoting LHMARK (Reply 17):
Remind us again why you're not wearing a uniform? Flat feet, was it?

Torn left ACL, removed most of my left meniscus cartilage, broken left tibia, partially torn patella tendon, the list goes on. Unfortunately the ACL still is not 100% and I cant get a waiver for it. Pretty much keeps me from serving, but make no mistake about it if I could get a medical go ahead I would gladly step up and serve.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Beaucaire
Topic Author
Posts: 3888
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 4:48 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:47 pm

so to sum it up , there obviously can't be simple "extermination" of radical Islamist elements as some suggest,since their number has grown into the million figure and would create martyr's by the thousands,triggering off even more violence.
Appeasement does not work neither,since they won"t listen anyhow. Educating them will take a generation - and replacing existing arab leaders with "democratically elected" ones -as the Europeans and USA suggest,does open the door for radical-islamists like in Egypt,Morocco or Algeria ( ...and I don't even dare to think about Afghanstan or Iraq..)
So we basically are stuck with a situation that nobody anticipated and all the "experts" in think-tanks all over the globe could not prevent.
Pakistan ,Indonesia and soon Nigeria will be the three biggest Muslim counties on the globe - with Indonesia currently relatively quiet,but Pakistan a powder-box and Nigeria a potential issue.
Religious authorithies in many countries have not participated in spreading a moderate picture of Islam but have continued to plaster the non-position of women in Islam.Women are traditionally more moderate than men and should have been allowed to play a more visible role in Islam-which is NOT forbidden by the Coran !
Maybe it's not to late to change that,but this needs the support of the West as well of the key- muftie's of Saudi (unlikely..),Egypt (should be possible ) Morocco ,Pakistan and Indonesia .
Maybe CIA should sponsor womens' right organisations in the Muslim counties rather than sending weapons to dictators...
Please respect animals - don't eat them...
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2231
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:52 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 18):
All these radical clerics in the west that are preaching hate, need to get booted out.

A rather ironic statement given your signature. I guess you are willing to sacrifice freedom of speech to purchase some safety?

QR332 is right that the problem of radical Islam isn't one which can be solved by bullets and bombs. Someone needs to stop and ask why radical Islam has become so attractive to so many in the Islamic world. How little hope do you have before someone can talk you into turning yourself into a human bomb? What can be done to change these societies so that a large portion don't feel left behind, with no hope of improving their lot in life? These are the questions I feel must be answered before we can truly get a handle on the dangers posed by radical Islam.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:53 pm

Oh..another idea...kill bloody Bin Laden. The idiot seems to be unstoppable..issuing new warnings, now against Iraq and Israel.

Bin Laden issues warning on Iraq, Israel

CAIRO, Egypt - Osama bin Laden warned Iraq's Sunni Arabs against fighting al-Qaida and vowed to expand the terror group's holy war to Israel in a new audiotape Saturday, threatening "blood for blood, destruction for destruction."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071229/...;_ylt=AtPguTeNgaULYEfOyqCrnhn9xg8F
אני תומך בישראל
 
LHStarAlliance
Posts: 2096
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:15 pm

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:53 pm



Quoting Windshear (Reply 19):
I think the above is one of the sneakiest left-wing agenda moves I have seen, this week!
Well done my man Big grin

 laughing   laughing   rotfl   rotfl 

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 21):
Maybe CIA should sponsor womens' right organisations in the Muslim counties rather than sending weapons to dictators...

Forget it ... The CIA is not an Organisation we should believe in , it's rather like a Mafia ORG ...


You beat them when you don't buy their oil ..

Constantin
Boycott The Olympic Games In Beijing !
 
airtran737
Posts: 3221
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 9:55 pm



Quoting QR332 (Reply 15):
But how do you pick where to strike? If a Saudi terrorist from Riyadh were to strike in the US today, would you bomb the living shit out of Riyadh just because that was where he lived?

If the Saudi government knew about what the terrorist was doing and did nothing to stop him/her then yes, you have to punish all who are involved, and all who sanction terrorism.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
N74JW
Posts: 514
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:31 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:00 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 24):
You beat them when you don't buy their oil ..

They will wind up selling it to someone else...
rm -r *
 
Stealthz
Posts: 5546
Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:43 am

RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:01 pm

QR332,
Allow me to differ somewhat,
Your plaintive and repetitive cries that radical Islam was created by the west is a fallacy.
There were radical Islamic groups, even whole nations long before "the West" was in a position of influence. Perhaps more than a millenium before the great Satan, the United States of America.
I concede the various Crusades were carried out with vigour and whilst the atrocities and cruelty carried out by those European armies can hardly be denied, their opponents were not the gentle scholars that revisionist historians would like us to believe.
If radical Islam makes up such a tiny percentage of the Muslim world, and the victims are mainly Muslim, why do the 95+% of "peaceful" Muslims not stand up and say this behaviour is not acceptable?
Is it because they don't care?
Is it because, despite their claim to being peaceloving, they tacitly approve?

To QR322 and the other apologists, I say, Get over it and clean up your act.

The ONLY way radical Islam will be defeated is for the Muslim world to say STOP
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:04 pm



Quoting N74JW (Reply 26):

They will wind up selling it to someone else...

But imagine how the Oil Price would fall if Europe and America need 30 % less Oil !

It would go down under 20 Dollars .

Constantin
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N74JW
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:11 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 28):
It would go down under 20 Dollars .

It would be great!!! I wish I had the answer to the energy question. I believe the solution is dependent on a number of factors.

I would like to tell the Saudis $10.00 a barrel, take it or leave it...
rm -r *
 
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STT757
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:15 pm

Take away the oil and the Middle East becomes Africa.
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LHStarAlliance
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:17 pm



Quoting N74JW (Reply 29):

Well your President is being very unproductive on this topic , whole America should go the same way California is going .

You've windy regions , you've Potential Geotermic energy sources , you've big deserts for sun energy , etc etc . It's not impossible it would take years but after 5-10 years the Oil Price will drop and drop .

The day the American President says he'll invest in renewable energy (billions )the Oil Price will fall more than 5 % I would bet 1000 euros on that .

Constantin
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Dougloid
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:38 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 31):
Well your President is being very unproductive on this topic , whole America should go the same way California is going .

You've windy regions , you've Potential Geotermic energy sources , you've big deserts for sun energy , etc etc . It's not impossible it would take years but after 5-10 years the Oil Price will drop and drop .

The day the American President says he'll invest in renewable energy (billions )the Oil Price will fall more than 5 % I would bet 1000 euros on that .

Read my blog, I've got an article by Dr. David Fine on the December 22 date. There are 1.4 trillion (with a T) recoverable barrels of oil in oil shale in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming. That's four times Saudi's reserves. Recoverable, and 75 per cent of it is under BLM land. In situ recovery methods are what Dr. Fine thinks will do the job. He figures it's a paying proposition if crude stays around $40 per barrel.

So, I ain't worried about the lights going off in America any time soon.

The only place that's windy right now is Iowa and that's only until the evening of January 3. Believe it or not I just got a phone call and an invite to a schmoozefest with Bill and Hilary....I said, I'm down with Obama myself.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:43 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 32):
Read my blog, I've got an article by Dr. David Fine

do you've a link ?

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 32):
There are 1.4 trillion (with a T) recoverable barrels of oil in oil shale in Colorado, Utah and Wyoming. That's four times Saudi's reserves. Recoverable, and 75 per cent of it is under BLM land. In situ recovery methods are what Dr. Fine thinks will do the job. He figures it's a paying proposition if crude stays around $40 per barrel.

something like the oil sands of alberta ?
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TheCol
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:02 pm

The only way to eliminate the threat of Islamic extremism, is to:

A. Promote and support democratic movements in Middle Eastern countries. That includes withdrawing support from corrupt dictators and monarchs, and increasing funding for the relief efforts in the Middle East.

B. Eliminate the corrupt Mullahs, Clerics, etc and the infrastructure of their extremist movements by military force.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 7):
but you need China and Russia to cooperate

Agreed, however I don't think that will happen any time soon.

Quoting N74JW (Reply 26):

Like China and Russia.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:04 pm



Quoting TheCol (Reply 34):
A. Promote and support democratic movements in Middle Eastern countries. That includes withdrawing support from corrupt dictators and monarchs, and increasing funding for the relief efforts in the Middle East.

B. Eliminate the corrupt Mullahs, Clerics, etc and the infrastructure of their extremist movements by military force.

that would end in an WW3 you can't reach everything by military power !
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miamiair
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:05 pm



Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 22):
I guess you are willing to sacrifice freedom of speech to purchase some safety?

No it isn't. There is freedom of speech, yet you can't yell FIRE in a theatre. I am not sacrificing anything. People that preach hate have no business in this country. Why is it that HATE crimes get such billing these days. Hate is not tolerated.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Mir
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:05 pm

If "stopable" means elliminated completely, no. It is impossible to stomp out popular movements, particularly on the global scale that radical Islam has grown to. It is a movement that will eventually burn itself out and fade into obscurity, and while that may take decades, there isn't all that much we can realistically do to help the process along. If we do anything significant, it's going to have to be economic, not military. Many followers of radical Islam have nothing - it's much easier to persuade them with the prospect of having something than with the prospect of bombing them and destroying their nothing.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 31):
The day the American President says he'll invest in renewable energy (billions )the Oil Price will fall more than 5 % I would bet 1000 euros on that .

Problem with that is that you run into the Catch-22 where if you start investing in renewable energy, the price of oil goes down and not so many people see the need to spend so much on renewable energy when they could get cheap oil.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
gkirk
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:07 pm

Other things are more important, sorry  Sad

[Edited 2007-12-29 15:16:16]
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zTagged
Posts: 354
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:08 pm

To quote George Carlin..

You can't beat numbers, and you can't beat fanaticism.
Something awful.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:08 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 37):
Problem with that is that you run into the Catch-22 where if you start investing in renewable energy, the price of oil goes down and not so many people see the need to spend so much on renewable energy when they could get cheap oil.

yea one of the biggest problems , there's just one choice : Make it obligatory , like we are doing here in Europe .
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Mir
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:11 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 40):
there's just one choice : Make it obligatory , like we are doing here in Europe .

Right now that's the kiss of death for any US politician because of the cost involved. Once gas gets up to $6 per gallon like it is in Europe, you might see it. But we're still only halfway there.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:19 pm



Quoting Mir (Reply 41):

This shows how Paradox the American Society is ...

On the other side the Government could sink the Taxes for the Gas and then make it obligatory to invest the rest of Money into renewable energy , also a control of the Gas Prices is important .


Constantin
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zTagged
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:22 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 42):
invest the rest of Money into renewable energy

You're kidding, right? With enough lobbyists and energywhores in the government, you honestly think they'll let their money get away?
Hell. No.
We'll be driving around with tanks of dinosaurs and Jimmy Hoffa for centuries to come.
Something awful.
 
miamiair
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:24 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 42):
This shows how Paradox the American Society is ...

On the other side the Government could sink the Taxes for the Gas and then make it obligatory to invest the rest of Money into renewable energy , also a control of the Gas Prices is important .

And your posts have been deviating from the original idea of the thread.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:25 pm

Quoting ZTagged (Reply 43):

Another big problem ... Politicians have lost the Integrity they ones had , look at Cheney he has just done Politics in favor of Halliburton , but not in favor for the whole American society .

Quoting Miamiair (Reply 44):
And your posts have been deviating from the original idea of the thread.

you're right ... let's go back to the original idea ...

[Edited 2007-12-29 15:27:21]
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TheCol
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:26 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 35):

I'm not proposing we invade every country in the Middle East. However, further military action by NATO and other allies have to be taken if diplomacy has no effect on the countries that are harboring terrorists.
No matter how random things may appear, there's always a plan.
 
zTagged
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:32 pm



Quoting TheCol (Reply 46):
However, further military action by NATO and other allies have to be taken if diplomacy has no effect on the countries that are harboring terrorists.

Screw that. If they want to mis-manage their countries, I say deny access to their citizens to any diplomatic country. Same goes for trade and such. Fuck 'em. Let them shoot and blow themselves to the next millennium, and I'm not sorry if anyone is offended. It's just my rambling.

Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 45):

Another big problem ... Politicians have lost the Integrity they ones had , look at Cheney he has just done Politics in favor of Halliburton , but not in favor for the whole American society .

Politicians? Integrity? This is like saying George W. Bush belongs to MENSA..  rotfl  Politics was founded on being a greedy bastard, just like any business. Nothing more.
Something awful.
 
LHStarAlliance
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:38 pm

Lets see what the next President does .

The only way to Harm the Radical Islamics is to drop the Oil price , as low as possible , how to do it ? There are many Possibilities , certainly a Military Action in the Middle East as Col says would just rocket the Price over 130 , resulting in more money for Al Qaida , and less growth in US / Europe . And the Result of the action , as america want it , would be still very doubtful .

Constantin
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zTagged
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RE: Is Radical Islam Stopable?

Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:39 pm



Quoting LHStarAlliance (Reply 48):

So then what do we do? We're too busy selling our oil from the Pipeline to start using that.. The only action would be cut ourselves off from them in every form, which would kill a lot of industries (Aviation, being one), but it'd be worth it in the long run.
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