MaidensGator
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Has Global Warming Stopped?

Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:44 pm

Not my title... It's an article in New Statesman... Interestingly, there has been no global temperature increase since 2001, at least that's what the article claims...

http://www.newstatesman.com/200712190004
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
Queso
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:48 pm

I heard this on the radio a few days ago. Pretty liberal source, but even at that don't expect those who believe in global warming as a religion to acknowledge it though.
 
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OA260
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:49 pm

It must have caus Im freezing LOL....
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:53 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Thread starter):
Has Global Warming Stopped?

Dunnno . . . but 'til now the threads had . . .  silly  wink 

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
It must have caus Im freezing LOL....

 checkmark 

-35F here today . . . . nothing Globally Warm about it. . .

. . . . .

"The fact is that the global temperature of 2007 is statistically the same as 2006 as well as every year since 2001. "

Sounds more like an op-ed piece than anything scientific . . . I'm sure each and every letter of the article will be refuted when our friends on the other side of the pond come-to from their New Year festivities . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Springbok747
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:57 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
-35F here today . . . . nothing Globally Warm about it. . .

Hehe you should come down here. Its a cool 43C (110 F)  Silly
אני תומך בישראל
 
Queso
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:00 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Dunnno . . . but 'til now the threads had

Perhaps we need a "Ultimate Global Warming Thread".  Big grin
 
PAHS200
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:11 am

it cant stop if it never started. with that said it has been on the warmer said here with highs in the 40F we should be in the low to mid 30sF
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:12 am

"Has Global Warming Stopped?"

To ask that legitimately, it had to start in the first place.  duck   tongue 

Alluding to what ANCflyer said, this might be a great time to watch Klaus post drunk, if he ever gets that way.
Living the American Dream
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:16 am



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 7):
this might be a great time to watch Klaus post drunk

Dang, I thought he was always drunk when he posted  duck  wink 

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 4):
Hehe you should come down here. Its a cool 43C (110 F)

Thanks, ummm, no. I'm good . . .

You can always wear more clothes, but you can neeever take enough off.

Yeah, yeah, pretty bad visual I know.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:14 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Dunnno . . . but 'til now the threads had . . .

Sorry, I couldn't resist when I ran across that...

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
Sounds more like an op-ed piece than anything scientific . . .

Actually I found that article from an opinion piece in the Ottawa Sun...

http://www.ottawasun.com/Comment/Editorial/2007/12/30/4746327.html

This editorial describes the author of the piece as "BBC science correspondent from 1988-1998, science editor BBC News Online (1998-2006), the 2004 European Internet Journalist of the Year, author of The Sun: A Biography, and holder of a doctorate in astrophysics"

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
-35F here today . . . . nothing Globally Warm about it. . .

I'm in Florida and the temp is supposed to drop into the teens tomorrow night... Yesterday I read that Ottawa set a record for the most snow ever in the month of December... But these cold events are probably a natural result of global warming...  Cool
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
HOMER71
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:33 am

So...when can we expect Al to return the Nobel and Oscar?  Wink
"On spaceship earth there are no passengers...only crew."
 
Queso
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:46 am



Quoting Homer71 (Reply 10):
So...when can we expect Al to return the Nobel and Oscar?

When hell (or the earth) freezes over.
 
Arniepie
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:12 am



Quoting MaidensGator (Thread starter):
Has Global Warming Stopped?

OK who of you dumbasses turned of the heater?
Turn it back on I say, I just don't care for freezing my butt of while watching the fireworks.
[edit post]
 
baroque
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:54 pm

Oh Lord, the attention spans of a gnat.

Only 2006 data available as yet.

For Canberra for example Max and Min in 2006 ranging from -0.5C to +3 from long term averages.

"There were 64 days on which the temperature reached 30.0oC or more during 2006. This was more than double the long-term average of 30 days."
http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@....263B6CA2573A1007B3288?opendocument
If you want to know the outcomes, you will have to wait. If you want early indications, check the amount of Arctic ice still there in late August 2008.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 3:53 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):
I'm sure each and every letter of the article will be refuted when our friends on the other side of the pond come-to from their New Year festivities .

See, I told ya . . . .

Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
Oh Lord, the attention spans of a gnat.

I have a far greater attention span than any gnat every thought to have . . . . if it's worthy of my attention.  biggrin 

Unlike Uncle Al, I'm not convinced . . . . guess no Nobel for me, eh . . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
wingnut767
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 4:03 pm

We are getting set to have some of the coldest days in 5 to 10 years here in Central Florida the next few nights. Down to 20 degrees in Ocala. Good thing I am buying my wife new SUV. Need some more CO2 to heat it back up
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
RJdxer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:24 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 1):
Pretty liberal source, but even at that don't expect those who believe in global warming as a religion to acknowledge it though.

They will, and they will say the same old thing. Global warming does not necessarily mean "warm". It could mean an exceptional cold, an exceptional dry, an exceptionally strong tropical storm, an exceptionally large mesoscale storm, or an exceptional wet. It is whatever they want it to be that is slightly out of the supposed static "ordinary".

Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
If you want early indications, check the amount of Arctic ice still there in late August 2008.

So one year will make or break?

BTW, in the article you cite, I guess you missed:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@....263B6CA2573A1007B3288?opendocument

There were 117 frosts recorded in Canberra during 2006. This was 22 more than the BOM yearly average. Fifty four of these frosts were recorded outside of the winter months. The first frost for 2006 occurred on 12 April with the last of the year occurring on 17 November.

And what do you need for a frost to occur?

You also missed that there were more sunny days than average for the year, plus less wind. Both would add to daytime heating and/or night time cooling. In addition the page does not state for how long they've been keeping records, but even if its 100 years, over a span of thousands of years, how out of the "ordinary" is it really?
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Joni
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 5:31 pm

I don't think you can say that warming has "stopped" in 6 years anymore than you can say that a particularly warm summer is due to the warming.

Warming is observed over longer time periods than a few years, in a few years the temperature can fluctuate.
 
MaidensGator
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:08 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
Oh Lord, the attention spans of a gnat.

Better than the attention span of a sheep, following Al the Shepherd...
The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers.
 
wingnut767
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:22 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 16):
They will, and they will say the same old thing. Global warming does not necessarily mean "warm". It could mean an exceptional cold, an exceptional dry, an exceptionally strong tropical storm, an exceptionally large mesoscale storm, or an exceptional wet. It is whatever they want it to be that is slightly out of the supposed static "ordinary".

Bingo. They have the coverall excuses

Quoting Joni (Reply 17):
I don't think you can say that warming has "stopped" in 6 years anymore than you can say that a particularly warm summer is due to the warming.

So you are sying we should ignore the fact that warming has stopped the last six years? So I guess we should of ignored the warming of the prior six years. which would leave us without much warming since they prdicted the Ice Age in the late 70's
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
Joni
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 8:39 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 19):

So you are sying we should ignore the fact that warming has stopped the last six years? So I guess we should of ignored the warming of the prior six years. which would leave us without much warming since they prdicted the Ice Age in the late 70's

Erm, first of all there is no "fact" that the warming process would have stopped during the last six years. And secondly, of course we don't remove data from the timeline, we take it all into account when we assess the long-term warming trend.

The year-to-year variability in measured temperatures isn't insignificant when compared to the scale of the warming, so it's not unexpected that there could be several consecutive years when measured temperatures are substantially identical - in fact there could even be several consecutive years of declining temperatures. The increasing CO2 (and other GHG) concentration is a factor that pushes temperature upward, but it's not the only factor affecting the temperature. It can well be that for a few years e.g. natural variability can counteract the increased greenhouse effect if the natural variability during that period happens to have a cooling effect, but this is a temporary blip in a curve that's overall trending upward.

If you look at this graph you can see that year-to-year variability is high, but the trend is clear.

Big version: Width: 399 Height: 278 File size: 41kb


(from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph...-2007-second-warmest_b_76428.html)

In fact the case does happen to be that natural forces are now in a mode that would produce below-average temperatures, yet 2007 is among the warmest years ever measured.

"Through the first 11 months, 2007 is the second warmest year in the period of instrumental data, behind the record warmth of 2005, in the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) analysis. The unusual warmth in 2007 is noteworthy because it occurs at a time when solar irradiance is at a minimum and the equatorial Pacific Ocean has entered the cool phase of its natural El Nino -- La Nina cycle." http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/20071210_GISTEMP.pdf

So this attempt to re-open this "debate" has yet again failed, to no-one's surprise.
 
allstarflyer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:03 pm



Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
So this attempt to re-open this "debate" has yet again failed, to no-one's surprise.

Being a joke of an issue, there was no serious debate in the first place, so you're right, but obviously in the wrong direction.
Living the American Dream
 
RJdxer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:09 pm

Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
So this attempt to re-open this "debate" has yet again failed, to no-one's surprise.
Yes, no heretics are allowed. MaidensGator, you'll get the rack for this!

[Edited 2008-01-01 15:10:14]
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:24 pm



Quoting MaidensGator (Thread starter):
Has Global Warming Stopped?

Well, it hasn't stopped for the past 10,000 years, so I don't see why it should stop now - even though it should be...

Quoting Joni (Reply 20):

If you look at this graph you can see that year-to-year variability is high, but the trend is clear.

Unfortunately though it isn't, you cannot conclude anything on a graph taken from that time period, as the point where it starts from is still considered to be at the end of the Maunder Minimum (little ice age) and associated drops in sun spot activity - although the 'worst' was certainly though the 16th century.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
mham001
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:40 am



Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
If you look at this graph you can see that year-to-year variability is high, but the trend is clear.

Big version: Width: 399 Height: 278 File size: 41kb


(from http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph...html)

You see, that graph just shows what a piss-poor arguement the Gore flock have in trying to lay this on humans. They point to the trend. Ok, look at the trends. The temp raised significantly between 1910 and 1945. Then it leveled off and even dropped until 1980. If global warming is being caused by man, what happened during those 35 years? We had booming economies, vast expansion and population booms in at least two continents. Exactly what happened to the trend during that period?
 
baroque
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:27 am



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 16):
BTW, in the article you cite, I guess you missed:

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@....263B6CA2573A1007B3288?opendocument

There were 117 frosts recorded in Canberra during 2006. This was 22 more than the BOM yearly average. Fifty four of these frosts were recorded outside of the winter months. The first frost for 2006 occurred on 12 April with the last of the year occurring on 17 November.

And what do you need for a frost to occur?

You also missed that there were more sunny days than average for the year, plus less wind. Both would add to daytime heating and/or night time cooling. In addition the page does not state for how long they've been keeping records, but even if its 100 years, over a span of thousands of years, how out of the "ordinary" is it really?

Thank you I missed none of those. And thank you for demonstrating that climate is complex and even average temperatures are an oversimplification.

A high number of still sunny days, with more frosts is exactly the combination you might expect and IN THIS CASE is still associated with above average temperatures for Canberra.

How out of the ordinary, yes it is about 100 years for Canberra, the whole point is that the changes are long term in relation to what we think we "remember" about weather.

Joni's post shows the longer term averages and in the end 2007 will prove to be among the warmest years.

Quoting Joni (Reply 20):

"Through the first 11 months, 2007 is the second warmest year in the period of instrumental data, behind the record warmth of 2005, in the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) analysis. The unusual warmth in 2007 is noteworthy because it occurs at a time when solar irradiance is at a minimum and the equatorial Pacific Ocean has entered the cool phase of its natural El Nino -- La Nina cycle." http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailin...P.pdf

And that La Nina part of the cycle is giving us cool temperatures up in the north at present and very hot temperatures in the southern part of Australia. You cannot just leap to a short term conclusion Rjd and expect to land on firm factual ground.
 
WestJetYQQ
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:35 am



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 3):

-35F here today . . . . nothing Globally Warm about it. . .

Had snow on the ground for a solid month now. That's a first.

Realistically, this comes out just after I stopped being to optimistic on the exact issue. I don't know what to think, so I won't.  Yeah sure

Cheers
Carson
Will You Try to Change Things? Use the Power that you have, the Power of a Million new Ideas.
 
Joni
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:09 am



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 23):

Unfortunately though it isn't, you cannot conclude anything on a graph taken from that time period

I don't think anyone is concluding anything here based on one graph.

Quoting Mham001 (Reply 24):
The temp raised significantly between 1910 and 1945. Then it leveled off and even dropped until 1980

This behaviour is well understood as a result of both human-caused and natural forcing.
 
wingnut767
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:18 pm

To bolster our claim that "There Has Been Little Net Global Warming Over the Past 70 Years," each week we highlight the temperature record of one of the 1221 U.S. Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) stations from 1930-2005.
This issue's temperature record of the week is from Boise City, OK. During the period of most significant greenhouse gas buildup over the past century, i.e., 1930 and onward, Boise City's mean annual temperature has cooled by 0.68 degrees Fahrenheit. Not much global warming here


http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO...2C/data/ushcn/stationoftheweek.jsp
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
baroque
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:28 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 28):
During the period of most significant greenhouse gas buildup over the past century, i.e., 1930 and onward, Boise City's mean annual temperature has cooled by 0.68 degrees Fahrenheit. Not much global warming here

The graph looks as if one additional year like ?1999 would go close to making it zero or +0.68F. Has anyone got Unfig to run a correlation coefficient across that lot? R will be very very low.
 
wingnut767
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:30 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 19):
Quoting RJdxer (Reply 16):
They will, and they will say the same old thing. Global warming does not necessarily mean "warm". It could mean an exceptional cold, an exceptional dry, an exceptionally strong tropical storm, an exceptionally large mesoscale storm, or an exceptional wet. It is whatever they want it to be that is slightly out of the supposed static "ordinary".

Bingo. They have the coverall excuses

I am sorry RJdxer. I forgot to add the obligatory "deniers" do not undrestand what global warming means. You do not understand the "science". Only the Warmist understand that it means hot, cold, wet, arid, hurricanes or no Hurricanes.
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
RJdxer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 1:38 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 25):
You cannot just leap to a short term conclusion Rjd and expect to land on firm factual ground.

But that is exactly what the global warming religion would have us do. They trot out statements like "2007 second warmest year" which shows data for 127 years. When you compare it to Plymspotters comments which make a whole lot more sense for a time reference. 127 years is a drop in the bucket for weather data gathering. Unfortunately when you express that sentiment to them, they then come up with "theories" that show that the world is now hotter than it has ever been before, and that it is all mans fault. It's no longer science, it's become a cult, or religion if you prefer.

Quoting Joni (Reply 27):
I don't think anyone is concluding anything here based on one graph.

Please, don't try and pull that after you have said:

Quoting Joni (Reply 20):
So this attempt to re-open this "debate" has yet again failed, to no-one's surprise.

You are concluding everything that is said to question the global warming dogma is heresy.

Quoting Joni (Reply 27):
This behaviour is well understood as a result of both human-caused and natural forcing.

And there you have it. It doesn't make any difference if it's hot, cold, wet, or dry, it's global warming of some kind and nations should be made to pay for it.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
CupraIbiza
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:32 pm

I dont think the real issue is if the warming has stopped or not. The most pressing issue is if it is man made. This part of the debate has been glossed over and the proof that global warming is man made is wafer thin.
Everyday is a gift…… but why does it have to be a pair of socks?
 
Dougloid
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:35 pm

If you asked me this morning here in central Iowa I'd say not only yes, but hell yes.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
ag92
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:51 pm

This year MAY not have been so hot, however if you were to plot it on to a graph, the temperature may fall slightly but overall will be rising. As usual the media trying to remove the theory of Global Warming
 
baroque
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:52 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 31):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 25):
You cannot just leap to a short term conclusion Rjd and expect to land on firm factual ground.

But that is exactly what the global warming religion would have us do. They trot out statements like "2007 second warmest year" which shows data for 127 years. When you compare it to Plymspotters comments which make a whole lot more sense for a time reference. 127 years is a drop in the bucket for weather data gathering. Unfortunately when you express that sentiment to them, they then come up with "theories" that show that the world is now hotter than it has ever been before, and that it is all mans fault. It's no longer science, it's become a cult, or religion if you prefer.

It is fair enough to complain about the time scale of some of the data, but if you look at the better treatments, they DO include data back now to over 10,000 years BP. No, we did not have stone age man posthumously equipped with thermometers, but there are numerous proxies for temperatures that can be measured with considerable accuracy, and the quality of the data is improving.

Aside from the rather unfortunate "hockey stick" melodrama, there are many traces of temperatures going back 2000 years plus and this puts the modern record in a sufficient context of the variation during an interglacial.

Within that context, the variation we have seen in the past half century is not extreme, however, it is unusual. If the variation is due to [CO2], it is true that by the time any greater certainty has arrived, it will be too late to reverse the changes.

And in any event, as you will (or should) know from my earlier posts or from general reading, we really desperately need to do something about our addiction to fossil fuels. Yes, I do have an interest in the fossil fuels industries. I work on a specialised set of techniques that are used by the oil and gas exploration industries and by the coal and coke industries. From a short term selfish point of view, encouraging overuse would be good for my wallet. But that is NOT what I am pleading for. We need to reduce fossil fuel usage because the reserves are much more limited than the public cares to wish to think.

It is hardly a coincidence that a large number of members of ASPO (SOciety for Peak Oil) have a background similar to my own. We see the realities coming from limited or no ability to increase production. Even if the CO2 story were totally wrong, we still need to do most of the things suggested by, shock - horror, Al Gore just because of the reserves situation.

Much of the focus has been on flow oil, but coking coals will soon reach their peak of production without any evidence of their being either a peak in demand for steel, or in the viability of alternatives to the blast furnace for producing high quality feed for steel furnaces at anything close to current prices.

So, for me, it would not matter if global warming had stopped, the same measures to reduce consumption of fossil fuels would be desirable. So if you want to let me know that to celebrate my comments you will go out and buy another large SUV or turn up the heating, please go ahead, and make me a little less poor. Go on, you can afford it - or can you?
 
RJdxer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:54 pm



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 33):
If you asked me this morning here in central Iowa

2 degrees F with a wind chill of -10? That's what you get for being in IA in January! BTW I'm quite sure your mother taught you better.  duck  Well don't fret, global warming kicks in for you on Sunday.  laughing 
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:12 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 28):
To bolster our claim that "There Has Been Little Net Global Warming Over the Past 70 Years," each week we highlight the temperature record of one of the 1221 U.S. Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) stations

"Our claim"? Anyway, what they do appear to highlight every week is that they think it's possible to measure global warming with one weather station. One can only wonder, why the above clap-trap was copy-pasted to A.net.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 30):
I forgot to add the obligatory "deniers" do not undrestand what global warming means.

Based on the above quotation from one of your posts (admittedly a small sample  Wink ) this would appear to be very much the case.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 31):
You are concluding everything that is said to question the global warming dogma is heresy.

Where did you get that idea? I could conclude (and in previous threads have concluded) that newspaper articles or dodgy websites aren't the venue where the global warming concept would be questioned in any relevant way. It may appear unfair to you that "both sides" aren't given equal weight, but the facts simply don't support both sides.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:24 pm

Did anyone else catch that NYT itty bitty blurb buried in the weather section saying that the Arctic ice caps have never been thicker? It was around Christmas; I've looked online but can't find it.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Joni
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 3:54 pm



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 38):
Did anyone else catch that NYT itty bitty blurb buried in the weather section saying that the Arctic ice caps have never been thicker? It was around Christmas; I've looked online but can't find it.

Do you mean this one?

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...9904E5D7113CF934A25755C0A9649C8B63

The article explains why this particular glacier is advancing, even though glaciers in general are retreating.

There was a useful piece in the Guardian concerning the claim that you run into every now and then, that glaciers wouldn't be melting, rather they'd be growing:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1480279,00.html
 
AverageUser
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:14 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 38):
Did anyone else catch that NYT itty bitty blurb buried in the weather section saying that the Arctic ice caps have never been thicker? It was around Christmas; I've looked online but can't find it.

Must be you looked in the wrong places, and the word was actually "thinner".

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/02/science/earth/02arct.html
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...ence/20071002_ARCTIC_GRAPHIC.html#

The Arctic ice cap shrank so much this summer that waves briefly lapped along two long-imagined Arctic shipping routes, the Northwest Passage over Canada and the Northern Sea Route over Russia.


McKenzie Funk
Arctic Study Researchers haul a buoy across the Arctic sea ice in August, led by two Coast Guard crew whose job was to ward off polar bears or rescue anyone who slipped into the sea.
Over all, the floating ice dwindled to an extent unparalleled in a century or more, by several estimates.


[Edited 2008-01-02 08:17:11]
 
Queso
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:35 pm

These global warming debates are always sooooo funny! Al Gore is one of many shepherds leading the sheep to a man-made global warming created mirage in the desert for a drink of the same kool-aid he's been drinking.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:37 pm



Quoting Joni (Reply 39):
Do you mean this one?

Nope, it was in the actual weather section around Christmas in the print edition.

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 40):
Must be you looked in the wrong places, and the word was actually "thinner".

No it would not have caught my attention had it been the same ol' story.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
Dougloid
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:19 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 41):
These global warming debates are always sooooo funny! Al Gore is one of many shepherds leading the sheep to a man-made global warming created mirage in the desert for a drink of the same kool-aid he's been drinking.

Suh, you do the sheep a disservice in impugning theyuh honuh.

I think you have them confused with lemmings.
If you believe in coincidence, you haven't looked close enough-Joe Leaphorn
 
AverageUser
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:51 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 42):
No it would not have caught my attention had it been the same ol' story.

Well for one, even if there was a minor something in the NYT weather section in mid-December to be found somewhere, the maximum extent of ice on Northern Hemisphere is still reached in March, and it's a year-by-year event, so unless the NYT writer had some paranormal abilities, you're not in luck.
See http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/...topstory/2006/seaice_meltdown.html and play the animation there, (if you dare).

----

Quoting Queso (Reply 41):
the sheep



Quoting Dougloid (Reply 43):
lemmings.

Ok, the bottom of the barrel in the argumentation department now seems to have been reached. Time to start anew, gentlemen?

[Edited 2008-01-02 10:02:37]
 
RJdxer
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:31 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 35):
Within that context, the variation we have seen in the past half century is not extreme, however, it is unusual.

Agreed. But given the extremes of this worlds past, even "unusual" is stretching things. This is where I have the greatest problem with eco's. They act as if what we see around us, the weather, the forest, all of it, is the way things "should" be and that any variation is a bad thing. They studiously ignore and refuse to acknowledge the planets varied past. When you bring that to their attention they somehow believe that if it weren't for Man, everything would remain the same as in a picture postcard. They also believe that Man somehow has the intelligence to change it. And we haven't even brought up what might happen to the planets weather if earthquake or volcanic activity were to suddenly increase, which has happened before.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 35):
If the variation is due to [CO2], it is true that by the time any greater certainty has arrived, it will be too late to reverse the changes.

And after destroying several economies and putting a large amount of people into economic despair in the process, what would you say if the level continued to rise anyway?

Quoting Baroque (Reply 35):
And in any event, as you will (or should) know from my earlier posts or from general reading, we really desperately need to do something about our addiction to fossil fuels.

That will be taken care of by the market place. Sooner, rather than later, the price of oil will reach the level where alternative fuels become economically competitive. In the meantime, how many things out there depend on the petrochemical industry?

Quoting Joni (Reply 37):
Where did you get that idea?

From your words here and in other threads. I have the next few days off, I could go get them for you. As an example:

Emirates Boss: Global Warming Theory Is Rubbish!
Joni
reply 105
Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 60):
Look, the Earth is getting warmer, and it's not because of human activity,

The Earth is getting warmer, and the evidence says that humans are causing most of the warming and urgent steps need to be taken to counteract it. This is what the IPCC is saying, it's what the national science academies of all the G8 nations (and China's and India's) are saying, it's even what Big Oil. It's what the countries represented in Bali said. To continue to cling to some kind of denial is bizarre.

If you want to be a supporter of the man made global warming scare, go ahead it's your right, but don't deny it.

Quoting Joni (Reply 37):
It may appear unfair to you that "both sides" aren't given equal weight, but the facts simply don't support both sides.

Again, considering how the "debate" is closed according to global warming acolytes, no fact will support anything but that man is responsible for global warming. As stated earlier, anything else is heresy and is to be ridiculed immediately as is done here on virtually every thread that touches on the environment.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
wingnut767
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:19 pm



Quoting Joni (Reply 37):
"Our claim"? Anyway, what they do appear to highlight every week is that they think it's possible to measure global warming with one weather station. One can only wonder, why the above clap-trap was copy-pasted to A.net.

Remember it is one a week times how many weeks in a year times years that show no global warming in the states. The UHI effect from the major metro areas is where all of the warming comes from. Land use has more to do with it than CO2.

Once again maybe you would take time and read through these sites and see all of the temp discrpancies here in the states. It all adds up to corrupted data and no warming.


http://www.surfacestations.org/

http://www.climateaudit.org/

But I doubt you will since you said

Quoting Joni (Reply 37):
Where did you get that idea? I could conclude (and in previous threads have concluded) that newspaper articles or dodgy websites aren't the venue where the global warming concept would be questioned in any relevant way. It may appear unfair to you that "both sides" aren't given equal weight, but the facts simply don't support both sides.

Close minded, debate is over all because of the IPCC. A report run by beuracrats.
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
AverageUser
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:39 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 45):
And after destroying several economies and putting a large amount of people into economic despair in the process,

I would hardly consider any advanced global warming exactly a bed of roses in the economic sense. Very few people indeed will then be on the black. Even if the risk for a full-blown effect was minimal, which everything now points not to, it would make solid economic sense for everyone to do the utmost to minimize that risk even then.
But luckily the tide has now turned in the U.S. last year, which even the U.S. hardliners posting here seem to recognise in their own way. In a few years' time this same discussion will be totally different in tone, mark my words. The conservative U.S. opinion leaders will have if not outright switched sides, but will have assumed a far more reasonable stance on the matter.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 46):
The UHI effect from the major metro areas is where all of the warming comes from.

I did not know we had that many people in the Arctic and sub-Arctic regions, and how do we actually distort the radar and photographic images of the ice cap?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:10 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 44):
Well for one, even if there was a minor something in the NYT weather section in mid-December to be found somewhere, the maximum extent of ice on Northern Hemisphere is still reached in March

I think it was that the ice cap in December was the largest in six or seven years or something similar.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
CupraIbiza
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RE: Has Global Warming Stopped?

Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:29 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 35):
We need to reduce fossil fuel usage because the reserves are much more limited than the public cares to wish to think.

It is hardly a coincidence that a large number of members of ASPO (SOciety for Peak Oil) have a background similar to my own. We see the realities coming from limited or no ability to increase production. Even if the CO2 story were totally wrong, we still need to do most of the things suggested by, shock - horror, Al Gore just because of the reserves situation.

Sounds good to me. lets make the debate about future oil reserves, and not global warming. Lets talk about alternatives for this reason. Then the global warming converts will still get what they want.

Baroque, on this I agree with you. However my concern doesnt stem so much by the worlds inability to increase oil production. My concern is the billions of Chinese/Indians etc who rightfully want what we have enjoyed the last century. 1000 new cars a day being registered in Beijing alone. That is what concerns me.
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