Beaucaire
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The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:39 am

Has anybody ever seen a crop circle among the a.netters ??
I know that most of the crop -circles are manmade and there are even groups who advertise on internet their creations of crop-circles. But there are usually less sophisticated and not as complex in design-pattern as some of the more "famous" ones.
A great web-site of a reasearcher and photographer od crop-circles is listed below :

http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/2007/aug.shtml

While I don't believe in extraterrestial origings of those circles,some of the designs are so complex,sphisticated and full of mathematical beauty that it is hard to believe they are the opus of some freak farmers-they are just too regular ,harmonic and complex.
Any ideas as to how to create them ???

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/3059/cropcircle1sw2.jpg

[Edited 2008-01-06 01:51:22]
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ManuCH
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 10:19 am

You're bringing up an interesting topic. I've actually had a quite heated up discussion with a friend last week. According to his personal research from various sources, there's about 20% of the crop circles which are of "unknown origin" (we're not talking about UFOs here, just that it's unknown who made them). These figures can also be found in various articles on the web.

According to a Wikipedia article, 3 attributes distinguish a "real" crop circle from a "fake" (as in "trampling the wheat with wooden boards") one:

1. Elongated apical plant stem nodes
2. Expulsion cavities in the plant stems
3. The presence of 10-50 micrometre diameter magnetized iron spheres in the soils, distributed linearly

An MIT team was able to recreate "real" crop circles using sophisticated technical means. But my personal question remains: who created the 20% "unknown" crop circles with these 3 attributes? I think it's by far too expensive to create a "real" crop circle just for fun. But it's also true that I've been unable to find real scientific evidence that the 20% crop circles of unknown origin are actually real, with those 3 attributes, and not just trampled.

Any thoughts?
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Beaucaire
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:12 am

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wilco737
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:15 am



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):

I like that one there! It looks pretty big and pretty complicated, but nice structures! I want it in my backyard... no wait, I dont have a backyard... Big grin

I dont know if I can believe that it was done by aliens, but the thought would be great! Finally to know that we are not alone in this HUGE universe Big grin

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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:47 am

Well somebody has made a Firefox crop circle:



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wilco737
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:48 am



Quoting Birdwatching (Reply 4):

 rotfl 

I will do one as well, but showing airline logos! Starting with the LH one Big grin

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Beaucaire
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:37 pm

I knew that by starting this thread I would run into tons and tons of laughter -posts..
Nevertheless I'd be more interested other than laughter that someone explains to me scientifically how such a crop-circle is done right in the middle of the night in less than 20 minutes - based on testimonies from people who confirm that no circle was there precisely that many minutes past...
I'm into books about sacred geometry - and many of those circles -not the obvious "fake" ones- are based on precisely the ratio used by those who did build cathedrals,mosques and other energy -filled places.Once again-I'm not looking for comments about abvious funny replicas and publicity stunts but some serious inputs as how those pictures are made in just a few minutes...
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zanl188
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:12 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Thread starter):
some of the designs are so complex,sphisticated and full of mathematical beauty that it is hard to believe they are the opus of some freak farmers-they are just too regular ,harmonic and complex.
Any ideas as to how to create them ???

In a world where navigation is so accurate that airline pilots intentionally deviate from airways to avoid collisions with other aircraft at the same altitude on the same airway... and where farmers operate gps controlled tractors that can implement plow/planting patterns the farmer created on his PC... and where a guy with a slide rule or a 70s era computer can calculate a spacecraft trajectory so precise that he can hit a 2km entry corridor from two hundred million km away....

... why is it so difficult to believe that crop circles are created by a clever (and probably slightly inebriated) bunch of hoaxers?

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 6):
Once again-I'm not looking for comments about abvious funny replicas and publicity stunts but some serious inputs as how those pictures are made in just a few minutes...

Why not ask the guy, in concert with a lie detector, who's making the 20 minute claim? He's probably in cahoots with the hoaxer.....
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Beaucaire
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:32 pm

It's not as simple as that,since the molecular structure of plants within crop-circles are different than the ones outside the crop-circles -read attached research..
Again-this applies to about maybe 5-10% of circles that are not neccessarily hoax but could have been produced by microwave-weapons or tests.
Those circles have also appeared in remote areas or Iran,Turkey,USA etc-so it's not limitted to a speacial area in the UK,where nevertheless most of the circles have een discovered.
Useless to say that those reporst about the molecular changes of plants have been researched by scientists ..

http://www.greatdreams.com/crop/hoax/hoax.htm

[Edited 2008-01-06 05:34:50]
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zanl188
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:42 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 8):
It's not as simple as that

Yes it is....

again I ask you... "Why is it so difficult to believe this is a hoax?"
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Beaucaire
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 1:53 pm

Circular Stories, Facts and Figures

Eye-witnesses: There are around two dozen eye-witness accounts of crop circles forming. All describe similar events; an invisible force coming out of nowhere in otherwise calm conditions and spinning the crops down within seconds, usually with surprising violence - yet little damage is found in the laid crop. Tornado-like funnels, light phenomena and high-pitched whistling sounds have also been reported.

Quick on the draw: In July 1996, a 915 feet spiral of 151 circles appeared in full view of the busy A303 road, opposite England's ancient monument Stonehenge, Wiltshire, within a 45 minute period one Sunday afternoon. A pilot, gamekeeper and security guard confirmed it had not been there before 5.30pm - yet shortly after 6.00pm, the massive formation was being spotted by passing tourists. Much smaller man-made designs have taken several hours to complete. This also disproves the myth that all crop circles appear by night.

Longest crop formation: This occurred at Etchilhampton, Wiltshire, in 1996 - a chain of circles and pathways approximately 4100 feet long crossed from one end of a field to another.

Largest design and most circles in one formation: The record for both these qualities is currently held by the huge motif at Milk Hill, Wiltshire, August 12th 2001 - 409 small circles made up a staggering six-armed design of around 800 feet diameter.

Largest expanse of laid crop in one design: A seven-petalled mandala which appeared at Alton Barnes, Wiltshire, in 1998 contained an unbroken flattened area covering 6000 square metres.

Most geometrically perfect formation: Most would agree that the formation at Windmill Hill, Wiltshire, in 1996 takes this award - an endless procession of perfect equilateral triangles, from large to small, could be drawn by overlaying geometrical shapes onto a triple-armed spiral of 194 circles covering around an area of 600 feet diameter. If just one of the main circles or arms had been even slightly misplaced, this geometry would not have worked.

Most visited formation: Stonehenge, 1996 (see Quick on the Draw above) - it is estimated around 10,000 people entered this pattern once it was opened to the public by the farmer, partly through being so visible next to such a major landmark.

Most publicised formation: Alton Barnes, 1990 - many global newspapers and TV stations reported the appearance of this, the first of the large pictograms.

Scientific tests: Work by W C Levengood, a respected Michigan-based biophysicist, has shown notable biological changes taking place inside circle-laid stalks, which could be attributable to some kind of microwave energy. No man-made demonstration formation has ever produced these results, yet the majority of the hundreds of crop circles sampled have proved positive in this regard. LevengoodÕs papers have been published in scientific journals and his work has been replicated by other laboratories working with the US-based BLT Research organisation. In 1995, tests on crop formation soil samples were conducted by ADAS, a division of the English Ministry of Agriculture. Although preliminary, they showed distinct anomalies in the nitrogen/nitrate ratios which could not be explained. There have been other scientific tests carried out by different bodies over the years which have produced peculiar unexplained qualities.

Strange effects: There have been many reported effects on people's health, sometimes of cures, sometimes of ailments, which have come on while within crop circles. Animals sometimes behave strangely in crop formations. Electronic and mechanical equipment, videos, cameras and even combine harvesters have also been known to malfunction in very odd ways, far above the average one would expect from chance.

http://www.lucypringle.co.uk/photos/1996/uk1996ck.shtml

Nobody has neither ever reproduced to demonstrate how to create a crop-structure like this one in front of witnesses in a couple of minutes -some of those circles or structures have 300-400 meters in diameter and are perfectly balanced..

[Edited 2008-01-06 05:56:14]
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:00 pm

Where's that bloody Tinfoil-Hat Man when you need him?...
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:07 pm



Quoting Francoflier (Reply 11):
Where's that bloody Tinfoil-Hat Man when you need him?...

Ever since Andrea Kent (Blackbird) joined the boards, he got himself into a mental institution due to stress. His workload was just too large.
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zanl188
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 2:41 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 10):
Eye-witnesses: There are around two dozen eye-witness accounts of crop circles forming.



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 10):
Work by W C Levengood,



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 10):
There have been many reported effects on people's health,

Oh so easy to debunk...

Eye-witnesses: Poor source of factual info... Ask any cop or accident investigator... eye witnesses tend to see what they want to believe....

Genuine scientific studies are peer reviewed and published in scientific journals. Where have the facts you site been peer reviewed and published?

Tell me this: Why do your crop circles only appear in crops away from large numbers of people & video cameras? Why not on my front lawn? Or in the concrete of a major intersection? Or the White House lawn or Hyde Park???

I'll tell you why... The hoaxers need remote locations to have their fun... They need locations with a medium (the crop) they can easily manipulate.....
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:06 pm

I want to make one showing a Concorde.  wave  Only I would not know how to do it.  Confused

More seriously, I have always wondered where these crop circles came from. They are really intriguing. This thread is very interesting. Maybe we will have the answers.

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 5):
I will do one as well, but showing airline logos! Starting with the LH one

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Beaucaire
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:24 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 13):
Oh so easy to debunk...

I doubt that a crop-circle executed with geometrical accuracy of less than 1° error ,including more than 150 individual forms and stretching over more than 12 Ha are so easy to produce..
I'd be interested to see the film of a team doing that exercise at night within twenty minutes ...
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ManuCH
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RE: The Crop-circle Thread...

Sun Jan 06, 2008 7:43 pm



Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 15):
I'd be interested to see the film of a team doing that exercise at night within twenty minutes ...

The only thing bothering me is that there's no scientific, documented evidence that they actually show up within 20 minutes. It could easily be an attention seeking, lying eye witness.

But there's definitely something mysterious as some of them are "different", and even if took a team 20 days to do it (instead of 20 minutes), some physical attributes of the wheat are altered, which can't be done unless you have very expensive equipment. That's the part that still leaves me wondering.
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