ALexeu
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Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:52 pm

I've hear many people think that Baptists, Adventist and Pentacostals are considered to be sects. What is your opinion on this? By ''religion law'' any church which is unrecognized is considered to be sects. I think that Yehova's witnesses are sects.
 
Toast
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:10 pm

No difference to me. If it's an organization that brainwashes its members with superstitious nonsense and makes money out of it, it's a religion. If it has usurped political power and/or promoted wars, genocide and destroying other cultures any time in its history, then it's a great religion. "Sect" is to me nothing more than an inter-religion insult. You're trying to grab my slice of the brainwashing market? You're a sect!

 twocents 
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lobster
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:23 pm



Quoting AlexEU (Thread starter):
What is your opinion on this?

All of them.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:01 pm



Quoting Lobster (Reply 2):
All of them.

Beat me to it. Big grin
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EvilForce
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:04 pm



Quoting AlexEU (Thread starter):
I think that Yehova's witnesses are sects.

Are you thinking of the word cult instead of sect?
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airfoilsguy
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:23 pm

Who wants to bet on how long this thread will last before getting locked and 10% of the posters banned?  Smile  duck 
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Halcyon
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:31 pm



Quoting Toast (Reply 1):
and makes money out of it,

Where I go to church, no money is ever collected or made in any way. Does that make my Christianity not part of a religion?
 
MDorBust
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:43 pm



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 4):
Are you thinking of the word cult instead of sect?

Uh yeah, that's what I'm thinking too.

A sect is a subdivision of a particular religious group.

A cult is a wacky, often times oppressive or violent minor religion.

I've never heard a negative connotation to the word "sect" while "cult" almost always has one.
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MadameConcorde
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:47 pm

Jeovah's witnesses, Scientology, Moonies (these are dangerous) and a few others I guess.

Quoting AlexEU (Thread starter):
I've hear many people think that Baptists, Adventist and Pentacostals are considered to be sects.

There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
Toast
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:05 pm



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 6):
Where I go to church, no money is ever collected or made in any way. Does that make my Christianity not part of a religion?

Of course your church makes money. Donations, investments, tax brakes, you name it - they don't necessarily need to take money out of your pocket every Sunday. I imagine it's not God who's paying their bills and salaries...

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 5):
Who wants to bet on how long this thread will last before getting locked and 10% of the posters banned?

I can smell the burnt toast already Big grin
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SBBRTech
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:09 pm

Which one? All of them.
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ALexeu
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:24 pm



Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 8):
Jeovah's witnesses, Scientology, Moonies (these are dangerous) and a few others I guess.

There are some dangerous indeed. There is some sort of snake church in USA. That is a cult, but those already mentioned (in my 1st post) are actually not cults.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:36 pm

By definition, all religions are cults and sects.
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EvilForce
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 5:38 pm



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 11):
There are some dangerous indeed. There is some sort of snake church in USA. That is a cult, but those already mentioned (in my 1st post) are actually not cults.

That's what I was trying to understand. Some call Mormons and the JWs cults here in America, so I wasn't sure if there was a language issue or not.

Of course that brings up the question of what makes a cult a cult. And what makes one a religion be it mainstream or otherwise?

The dictionary say:


Main Entry:
cult Listen to the pronunciation of cult
Pronunciation:
ˈkəlt
Function:
noun
Usage:
often attributive
Etymology:
French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate — more at wheel
Date:
1617

1: formal religious veneration : worship2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator 5 a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b: the object of such devotion c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

That's a pretty large spread in defining what a cult is / isn't IMHO.
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ltbewr
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 6:44 pm

Sects could be seen as narrow subdivisions of followers of mainline faith groups often with their own leadership and distinctive daily life practices. In some cases sects might border on being cults, but to me there is a difference between the designations.
Some examples of sects could be the various Hassidic groups of the Jewish faith and the 'Pennsylvania Dutch' which are part of the Mennonite faith groups. They do interact in the general society although they tend on a daily basis to be together in common communities, neighborhoods.
Cults often involve small groups, usually under a strong leader, personality driven devotion to a leader or their interpretation of faith rather than a more general devotion, very narrow and to the general society very unusual beliefs, distinctive and often demanding ceremonies and lifestyles, often tend to gather or live in isolation of general society and other factors.
 
Halcyon
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:40 pm



Quoting Toast (Reply 9):
Of course your church makes money. Donations, investments, tax brakes, you name it - they don't necessarily need to take money out of your pocket every Sunday. I imagine it's not God who's paying their bills and salaries...

Incorrect. We meet in a house. There are 15 of us. It's the same as if you met with friends to play cards. There aren't donations. You're completely and 100% wrong. Sorry. Your understanding of religions has been painted with a broad brush, it seems.
 
Toast
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:04 pm



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 15):
We meet in a house. There are 15 of us.

Then you don't fall under my definition of "church". More like a private, closed (family?) cult.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 15):
Your understanding of religions has been painted with a broad brush, it seems.

On the contrary, I've studied most world religions for years. I took Biblical translation at college. I've lived with ultra-religious people. I have many, many reasons to despise religion, and the more I know about it, the more I loathe it.
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ALexeu
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:19 pm



Quoting Toast (Reply 16):
Then you don't fall under my definition of "church". More like a private, closed (family?) cult.

Actually, a lot of these ''churches'' don't have a church building. JW for example don't have church.

In a lot of US movies you can see a building with a lot of people dancing and praying out loud ! We don't have that in Europe, but it is alive in Africa.
 
Halcyon
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:31 pm



Quoting Toast (Reply 16):
Then you don't fall under my definition of "church". More like a private, closed (family?) cult.

The "church" is the people. Not the building. And saying that it is a "family cult" is ignorant, incorrect, and unintelligent. It is, on the contrary, composed of people that want to study the Bible and not be brainwashed by some reverend. But I guess that, to you, if you aren't part of a "sect" that gets brainwashed, you're part of a "cult."

You need to take sociology and learn what those terms mean. A cult is characterized by restricting access to information to it's followers. The church I am a part of (Your definition disregarded.) has people that come and go as they please. There is NO leader. It's simple Bible-study, such as existed in the early-church.

I'm sorry you despise religion, but you obviously don't know about all of it.

Please, though, tell me now if I am a part of a cult. Tell me that my church makes money. You're so very wrong.
 
EWRCabincrew
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:38 pm



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
The "church" is the people. Not the building.

 checkmark 

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
You need to take sociology and learn what those terms mean.

Or at least open a dictionary.
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Toast
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:39 pm



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
The "church" is the people. Not the building.

I didn't mean the building, obviously.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
It is, on the contrary, composed of people that want to study the Bible

So it's simply a Bible study group, isn't it?

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
But I guess that, to you, if you aren't part of a "sect" that gets brainwashed, you're part of a "cult."

Where have I said that?

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
You need to take sociology

Five years, passed with honors...

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
A cult is characterized by restricting access to information to it's followers.

One of many possible definitions. Sociology is not an exact science with precise vocabulary. Cf. "country", "language", "living standards", etc., etc.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
The church I am a part of (Your definition disregarded.) has people that come and go as they please.

You say that as if it were something to be particularly proud of...

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
There is NO leader. It's simple Bible-study, such as existed in the early-church.

So again, it's a Bible study group, one of thousands that exist in the US. Hardly a church.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
Please, though, tell me now if I am a part of a cult.

I won't, see above.

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 18):
Tell me that my church makes money.

Your Bible study group, you mean...
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Halcyon
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:44 pm

Quoting Toast (Reply 20):

Or church. You're looking for a negative aspect, as I assume you do with most religions.

And the great thing about my church (That's what it is.) is that people can come and go, but most love it and choose to stay.

I don't like megachurches, and you don't like religion at all.

Quoting Toast (Reply 20):
Hardly a church.

Certainly a church.

Quoting Toast (Reply 20):
Five years, passed with honors..

Then use the knowledge. For good, not evil.

EDIT: And no wonder you're using such a broad brush...5 years of soc...and what's that saying sociologists loved? "It's hard to paint a sharp picture of a fuzzy object."

[Edited 2008-01-09 12:47:40]
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:50 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 5):
Who wants to bet on how long this thread will last before getting locked and 10% of the posters banned? Smile duck

Its getting there.....  Smile
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Toast
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:56 pm



Quoting Halcyon (Reply 21):
Certainly a church.

OK, I have no problem at all if you call it a church. I get shit for calling the EU a country. A matter of opinion entirely.  Smile

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 21):
use the knowledge. For good, not evil.

I'm good.  Smile

Quoting Halcyon (Reply 21):
no wonder you're using such a broad brush...5 years of soc...

I'm offended! You've just insulted the Church of Sociology!  duck 

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 22):
Its getting there.....

Yes it is, I'm posting like mad before it hits me  Smile
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Halcyon
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 8:56 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 22):

Not yet, you moron.

Just kidding.  Big grin

Sorry, I'm being an idiot as usual, and I know it. Off to classes now anyway.
 
ALexeu
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:19 pm



Quoting Toast (Reply 23):
I get shit for calling the EU a country.

 Big grin inbound from me !

Back to topic: Many of mentioned religions are very popular in USA, I can't belive that only few people reacted...
Halcyon, what religion is that?
 
TheCol
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:52 pm



Quoting Toast (Reply 9):
Of course your church makes money. Donations, investments, tax brakes, you name it - they don't necessarily need to take money out of your pocket every Sunday. I imagine it's not God who's paying their bills and salaries...

Most churches in North America barely stay out of the red. Mega churches tend to do well, though they are a minority.

Oh, and most churches have budget votes in order to spend the money. The board members who create the budget are elected. The Pastoral staff and their salaries also depend on approval as well. That way everyone gets their say.
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Toast
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:00 pm



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 25):
inbound from me !

Hey, no hard feelings  Smile

Quoting AlexEU (Reply 25):
I can't belive that only few people reacted...

People of little faith... They won't even risk a ban for their god anymore...  duck 

Quoting TheCol (Reply 26):
Most churches in North America barely stay out of the red.

Yeah, that's what I tell the IRS, too.  Wink
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Halcyon
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:15 pm



Quoting Toast (Reply 23):
A matter of opinion entirely.

I concur. I get crap for calling Canada America Junior. Kidding of course!  Wow!

Quoting Toast (Reply 23):
You've just insulted the Church of Sociology!

Are you the Pope of said Church? If so, I kiss your ring and beg forgiveness.  cry 
 
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zippyjet
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:23 pm

Scientology!

Just look at Tom the Loon Cruise. What did Katey see in him besides $$$?
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LAXspotter
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 1:02 am

I think the correct question is what is the difference between a Cult and Religion, and some people may see no difference.

Sects are division within Religion, theyre branches

For example : Christianity - Protestant - Catholic - Orthodox Churches
Islam - Sunni - Shiite
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ALexeu
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:29 am



Quoting LAXspotter (Reply 30):
Sects are division within Religion, theyre branches

Nop. You can't really say that e.g. Catholics or Orthodox or Sunni etc. are sects. Sects are branches of church which are not recognized.
 
LAXspotter
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:40 am



Quoting AlexEU (Reply 31):
Sects are branches of church which are not recognized.

not the way I've read it for the last 19 yrs in books and on TV.
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jush
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 10:50 am

Scientology and these Witnesses of jehova. Sects for sure. Should be banned as well.

I don't know more but I guess in the US there are quite a lot as you have this strange thing of declaring your own church.


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EvilForce
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RE: Which Religions Do You Think Are Sects?

Thu Jan 10, 2008 2:30 pm

Banning a religion never has really worked. In fact banning anything usually makes the thing you are trying to ban more appealing, whether that's a book ban, an embargo against a company, or banning a religion.

All religions could be argued are "stupid", including lack of a religion and people should be free to believe whatever they want. However, that doesn't mean that tax exempt status needs to be given out to these organizations. There are a number of religions that rake in billions, pay zero in property tax, and benefit from reduced franking costs at the postal service, among many other benefits while they give absolutely nothing back to the greater community. This I find objectionable. Many organized religions run various charitable committees that benefit the greater community. Some do nothing other than hide behind tax exempt status while they are nothing more than a magazine / book publishing magnate.

How many of these religions that claim to be helping mankind do nothing? They don't own or run non-profit hospitals for the greater good. They don't provide food kitchens to the community. They don' help clean up their respective cities or involve themselves in local community action groups. Why should groups like these get broad scaled tax breaks when they really are nothing more than publishing companies, pyramid schemes, and/or political lobbying organizations? This is what should be the measurement of allowing non-profit status to a religion IMHO. If you want to sell the bible, or sell God, I see that as no different as selling soap or selling widgets, but you should be taxed accordingly unless you can demonstrate fully that a religion exists for the greater good of the community and thus be given tax breaks from the community.
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