Zentraedi
Topic Author
Posts: 609
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:30 pm

Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:30 am

Go to a foreign country on holiday, get sick, have your kids taken away and strip searched....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/7206570.stm

Wow, I wonder if this will affect very many British families considering a New York Holiday.

Oh well, the economy is great, don't need their tourism anyway....
 
asuflyer05
Posts: 2054
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:11 am

Who cares about being strip searched. I'd be pissed about having to spend my holiday in Harlem.
 
User avatar
ManuCH
Crew
Posts: 2679
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:33 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:52 am

Something doesn't sound right in this story... who screwed up? Why were they taken to an orphanage? Didn't they have a hotel booked together with their mother? Shouldn't it be up to the mother to decide where the girls need to go? She was still awake, after all - she had pneumonia, she wasn't in a coma.
Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 21141
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:40 pm

Nothing surprises me in the USA anymore. The British government should be taking this up with their American counterparts. It seems that by saying its confidential and no comment gets them off the hook from a full investigation. When the children most needed compassion and reassuring America failed them !!!
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:46 pm

Somebody seriously needs to get fired over this. To lose 2 kids in the Child Welfare system like this, even for a relatively short period, when all the kids needed was a place to stay, is completely unacceptible. Who cares if these Child Welfare people are underpaid schlubs without 2 brain cells to rub together, they need to THINK a bit before applying their gormless one-size-fits-all rules to frightened kids far from home. The UK Government should intervene in this, this is a clear violation of the rights of their citizens.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:07 pm

I didn't think they still had orphanages here anymore. Sounds to me like New York City's big bureaucracy is a few decades behind the times.

Most kids caught in that situation would be allowed to stay in the guest rooms of a hospital. Hospital volunteers would be assigned to assure they are fed and safe. Another option would be to have the kids stay with state-certified foster homes, which are like "safe houses."
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
JRadier
Posts: 3943
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 11:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:42 pm

Do I hear a lawsuit coming? Sounds like a great pro-bono case to me!!
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
 
asuflyer05
Posts: 2054
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:16 pm

At that hour of night they probably were not able to assign a foster home, especially considering it is around the holidays. I disagree with the strip search and stuff but agree with the hospital's decision to get CPS involved. It is not the hospital's responsibility to babysit kids. It is an unfortunate situation.

I'd like to hear the other side of the story.
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:27 pm



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 2):
Something doesn't sound right in this story



Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 7):
I'd like to hear the other side of the story.

 
comorin
Posts: 3857
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 5:52 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:42 pm

Damn furriners! polluting our water and bodily fluids!! Every one of you tricky tourists is a potential illegal immigrant, even your kids! Send 'em all back, I say - who do they think they are?  Smile
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 21141
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:29 pm

In a case like this the hospital or police should have called the British Embassy !!! Isnt rocket science!!!
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:01 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
Nothing surprises me in the USA anymore.

 sarcastic 
Whatever . . . .

Quoting Asuflyer05 (Reply 7):
I'd like to hear the other side of the story.

Exactly . . .

WTF was this family on the "trip of a lifetime" doing in frackin' Harlem of all places? Trip of a lifetime? I suggest not.

Something is not right here . . . .

Were they not already checked in to a hotel? The story says the mother wasn't hospitalized until the SECOND night of her visit? Where'd they stay the first night? Surely there was a hotel room for the girls to return to when Mom became ill?

Hmmm, something not gelling here.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 4):
Somebody seriously needs to get fired over this. To lose 2 kids in the Child Welfare system like this, even for a relatively short period, when all the kids needed was a place to stay, is completely unacceptible. Who cares if these Child Welfare people are underpaid schlubs without 2 brain cells to rub together, they need to THINK a bit before applying their gormless one-size-fits-all rules to frightened kids far from home. The UK Government should intervene in this, this is a clear violation of the rights of their citizens.

Horseshit.

If no one had done anything - you and a handful of others here - would be saying the same damn thing . . . had the girls been left to their own devices the  redflag  would be hoisted and you'd be crying just as loudly for someone's head on a platter . . .

 sarcastic 
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:11 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Horseshit.

But they did the WRONG thing - treated them like abuse victims instead of contacting their embassy. If they had to be looked after by welfare authorities, surely the welfare officers should have done some kind of needs assessment before throwing them in an orphanage - a needs assessment starting with "where do they live ?". That way they'd have found out about the hotel, assigned someone to take them back there and either stay with them or make sure the hotel was able to look after them. Simply assuming they'd been taken away from their parents and treating it like abuse or abandonment when clearly it was no such case, was completely inappropriate. These are kids for crying out loud - if the treatment meted out to these particular girls is symptomatic of the general treatment of abused or neglected children in NYC, then clearly the system in its entirety is NOT addressing these childrens' needs and should be re-examined.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:18 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 12):
These are kids for crying out loud

Tell you like I tell Jackie . . . they're 13 and 15 . . . they are NOT kids . . . they're Teenagers . . . and smart enough to do much more than we usually give them credit . . .

Now that said:

I didn't say they got the right treatment . . . . obviously something is amiss . . . on both sides of the story.

However, calling - immediately - for someones head on a platter, until the entire story is made public, is unlike you.

And here I didn't think there was anywhere else on earth with a Child Welfare System as broken as the one in Alaska . . . hmmmm, lucky Alaska . . .
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
Kreze
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:50 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:26 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Were they not already checked in to a hotel? The story says the mother wasn't hospitalized until the SECOND night of her visit? Where'd they stay the first night? Surely there was a hotel room for the girls to return to when Mom became ill?

The hotel manager called 911. I am wondering why they didnt return to the hotel room too.
The little things. There's nothing bigger, is there?
 
Fiatstilojtd
Posts: 870
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 2:59 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:30 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 13):
and smart enough to do much more than we usually give them credit . . .

If you let them do it and offer them support, but not when you force them do what they were forced to do by an authority they did not know.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:30 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 13):
Tell you like I tell Jackie . . . they're 13 and 15 . . . they are NOT kids . . . they're Teenagers . . . and smart enough to do much more than we usually give them credit . . .

That's true, they could perhaps have asked to go back to their hotel. But it may not be legal for minors to stay in hotels by themselves in NYC - or maybe the welfare authorities weren't prepared to allow them to do that. As you rightly say the whole story hasn't been revealed. But whatever that story turns out to be, these girls were treated in a thoughtless, uncaring manner, and in a manner not appropriate to their circumstances (whatever the welfare authority rules may be).

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 13):
However, calling - immediately - for someones head on a platter, until the entire story is made public, is unlike you.

This is a special case - this is a case of child abuse (and yes that is a strong term, but nonetheless I fear it applies here) - strip searching, refusing permission to the child to visit a clearly and obviously non-abusive parent, counts in my eyes as child abuse by the very authorities put in place to prevent such abuse. If we can't rely on welfare authorities to consider the interests of the child, but allow them instead to apply arbitrary and ill-considered uniform processes regardless of the specifics of the case, we are leaving in place a system on a par with the abuses it is supposed to prevent.

Nothing is more important than protecting the well-being of children. It is a sacred trust (and there are very very few things in this world I consider sacred), and failure in or abuse of such trust is very hard to overlook or forgive.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
ronglimeng
Posts: 562
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2006 7:12 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:59 pm

As so many people above have commented, this story doesn't sound right.

But it must be an everyday occurence in places like NYC or Orlando, for parents or guardians on vacation to get sick or incapacitated and unable to look after their kids.

How are those emergencies normally handled? Most of the time they must be handled fairly smoothly and don't get into the media ...or the courts.
 
asuflyer05
Posts: 2054
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 8:53 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:07 pm



Quoting Ronglimeng (Reply 17):
How are those emergencies normally handled? Most of the time they must be handled fairly smoothly and don't get into the media ...or the courts.

You have to remember, CPS takes in kids from all kinds of backgrounds (especially in Harlem). What happened if those girls had drugs on them or a knife and brought them into that orphanage?
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:15 pm

Mother could have been so sick that she simply said to call the police and let them deal with it.

What would British cops do in a similar situation? Bring them to a foster home or other safehouse? Maybe mom assumed US and British cops would have similar procedures. If mom knew they would get hauled off to an orphanage, maybe she would have said otherwise.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:28 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 16):
But whatever that story turns out to be, these girls were treated in a thoughtless, uncaring manner, and in a manner not appropriate to their circumstances (whatever the welfare authority rules may be).

How can you come to that conclusion when you don't know what the full story is?

The story doesn't say anything about the Brit Embassy.. Were they contacted? If so what was their response?

What about the mothers circumstances... was she indigent? Did the kids have a place to go? If not why not?

Regarding the "strip search"... why is that considered abuse? Kids are asked to strip every day - gym classes, doctors offices, etc. Properly handled it's not abusive. Why is this case different? An argument could well be made that the "strip search" was necessary to ensure security in the facility...
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:36 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 20):
How can you come to that conclusion when you don't know what the full story is?

Because of what happened to these girls. They should not have been put into that institution, simple as that. There was no need to do that. They were treated as abandoned or abused children, which was not the case. They were square-pegged through a uncaring and broken system because somebody couldn't be bothered to think it through. That much at least is obvious. Whatever the reasoning was behind it, the wrong thing happened and these kids suffered for it. There's no valid excuse here.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:05 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21):
which was not the case.

How do you know that?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 21):
Whatever the reasoning was behind it, the wrong thing happened and these kids suffered for it.

How is it the wrong thing? How did you come to that conclusion... We don't know all the facts...
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:17 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 22):

How do you know that?

Were they abused ? Have they claimed they were abused ? Has ANYONE claimed they were abused ? No. Were they abandoned ? No. Their mother was in hospital. And yet they were treated as abused or abandoned children and placed in an institution.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 22):
How is it the wrong thing? How did you come to that conclusion... We don't know all the facts...

We have sufficient evidence to conclude that the treatment meted out to these children by the welfare services was inappropriate to their circumstances.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:00 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 23):
Were they abused ? Have they claimed they were abused ? Has ANYONE claimed they were abused ? No. Were they abandoned ? No. Their mother was in hospital.

There is no basis for any of these assumptions... That their mother was in hospital does not mean that the kids were well taken care of.... You're jumping to conclusions based on half (probably less) of the story....

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 23):
We have sufficient evidence

What "evidence"?
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:30 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 24):
There is no basis for any of these assumptions... That their mother was in hospital does not mean that the kids were well taken care of.... You're jumping to conclusions based on half (probably less) of the story....

You too are jumping to conclusions - that they WERE somehow abused. The BBC story is the mother's own story, she contacted the media herself. If there was any possibility that somehow she was abusing these kids, would she have sought this type of publicity ? No.

Secondly the silence of the welfare administration is in itself telling. No attempt has been made to justify their treatment of these kids. Why not ? This is a story broken in the foreign media, with little chance of it making the mainstream media in the US, especially if a rational explanation is rapidly forthcoming as to the circumstances from the welfare authority.

Regarding evidence, here's what we have:

- Mother staying in a NYC hotel with 2 teenage children
- Mother feels unwell, hotel manager calls paramedics
- Mother hospitalised with suspected pneumonia. Not unconscious, not in immediate danger.
- Hospital contacts welfare to see to the needs of the minor children, who for some reason cannot be accomodated in the hospital (first question - why not ?)
- Welfare takes children away from the hospital but does not offer temporary foster care, nor do they contact the British Consulate - this should be the first step for any non-US resident children.
- Welfare places the children in an orphanage (!) and appears to treat them as suspected abuse victims. They were asked if they were abused or suicidal, and if they had been raped. Why was this done ? Presumably standard operating procedure in abuse cases, but completely inappropriate in a case requiring only temporary foster care.
- The childrens clothes were taken away and they were searched. Is that even legal ?
- The children were photographed - surely not necessary
- The children were told they would not be able to visit their mother in hospital - why not ? This indicates that the authorities felt the children would be at risk if they visited their mother. At risk of what ?

Does none of this indicate to you that the system failed here ? That these children were not given care appropriate to their situation ? What would have happened if the mother became more seriously ill, and was not in a position to ask after her children ? How long would these children have been detained before someone stepped in to free them ? Fortunately the mother was able to discharge herself from hospital and sort the situation out.

We don't have the point of view of the welfare agency because they have refuse to comment. Are they even investigating the incident ? What kind of steps will be taken to ensure that this type of ineptitude doesn't happen again ?

Imagine for a moment it was your kids put through this - how would you feel ? I don't blame the mother for being absolutely livid about what happened.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:08 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 25):
You too are jumping to conclusions - that they WERE somehow abused.

The only conclusion that I'm "Jumping" too is that there is more to the story....

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 25):
- Mother feels unwell, hotel manager calls paramedics

Nowhere is this mentioned in the article. Reply #14 says 911 was called but doesn't say why. Medical problem, domestic problem, music too loud..... What?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 25):
Hospital contacts welfare to see to the needs of the minor children, who for some reason cannot be accomodated in the hospital (first question - why not ?)

I've yet to see a hospital equipped to care for children of an admitted patient on anymore than a couple of hours basis.

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 25):
Presumably standard operating procedure in abuse cases, but completely inappropriate in a case requiring only temporary foster care.

How do you know they only required temporary foster care? Were you there?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 25):
That these children were not given care appropriate to their situation ?

... and there is nothing here to spell out exactly what their situation was. I ask again; was the embassy contacted? What was there response? Did the kids have a place to stay?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 25):
We don't have the point of view of the welfare agency because they have refuse to comment.

Which is SOP to protect the kids....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:20 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 26):
How do you know they only required temporary foster care? Were you there?

Their mother wasn't dead, nor was she in immediate danger of death. That much is obvious from the story. Any arrangement for care would only be for as long as it took for a responsible guardian designated by the mother to arrive from the UK.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 26):
... and there is nothing here to spell out exactly what their situation was. I ask again; was the embassy contacted? What was there response? Did the kids have a place to stay?

It is not stated that the embassy was contacted - the mother should have done so if she'd had any concerns about the welfare of her children - they would at least have advised her her rights in the situation, even if they couldn't intervene themselves. If it is not standard procedure for welfare officers to contact the relevant embassy or consulate when taking foreign nationals into care, it should be. The embassy or consulate would have been better placed to contact relatives and make arrangements for the childrens' return to the UK if their mother had to stay in hospital much longer.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 26):
Which is SOP to protect the kids....

But the kids are no longer in the care of the welfare authority - they are back in the UK with their mother. There is no obligation for anonymity or protection here.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:41 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 27):
But the kids are no longer in the care of the welfare authority - they are back in the UK with their mother. There is no obligation for anonymity or protection here.

Sure there is.... Especially if there is an ongoing investigation - which the Mother herself indicates in the article.

The crux of the matter is: Why was 911 called (assuming they were)? What was the situation when first responders arrived?
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4102
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:02 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 11):
Were they not already checked in to a hotel? The story says the mother wasn't hospitalized until the SECOND night of her visit? Where'd they stay the first night? Surely there was a hotel room for the girls to return to when Mom became ill?



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 2):
Didn't they have a hotel booked together with their mother?



Quoting Kreze (Reply 14):

The hotel manager called 911. I am wondering why they didnt return to the hotel room too.

Its more than likely because the hospital would not have allowed them to as they would not have been under the care of a parent or guardian during that period - we are talking about minors here. At the point at which their mother was hospitalised, it is likely that duty of care of the children passed to the hospital, so they were probably under no choice.

Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 19):

What would British cops do in a similar situation? Bring them to a foster home or other safehouse?

They would have been placed in temporary care together - foster homes, of which local councils maintain an up to date list of that are willing to take emergency cases at very short notice, such as this.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:04 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 28):
The crux of the matter is: Why was 911 called (assuming they were)? What was the situation when first responders arrived?

From the story, it would seem that the paramedics were called to take care of the mother, and that the kids travelled with their mother to the hospital, from where they were taken into care.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4102
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:09 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 27):
But the kids are no longer in the care of the welfare authority - they are back in the UK with their mother. There is no obligation for anonymity or protection here.

In the UK it is against the law to name anyone under the age of 18 without either their express permission, or the explicit permission of a Judge. In cases where the minor is the subject of a news piece, the identities of anyone else closely involved would also be kept confidential as they could be used to identify the minor - in this case, the mother. I would not be surprised if the law in the US was similar.

In this case the agency is perfectly correct to not comment - the media and public at large have absolutely no entitlement to any information from the agency related to the mother or her children, or any information that could identify the minor.

Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 26):
I ask again; was the embassy contacted? What was there response? Did the kids have a place to stay?

It is highly unlikely that the embassy would have been contacted, as this is not the sort of case they would be involved in.
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:17 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 31):
In this case the agency is perfectly correct to not comment - the media and public at large have absolutely no entitlement to any information from the agency related to the mother or her children, or any information that could identify the minor.

They could at least indicate whether any kind of enquiry has been initiated into the case and the actions of their officers.

Quoting Moo (Reply 31):
It is highly unlikely that the embassy would have been contacted, as this is not the sort of case they would be involved in.

Why not ? If the mother was unable to take care of the kids, surely the first task would be to contact relatives and arrange for the kids to go home. The embassy should be able to facilitate contact either relatives or the relevant authorities in the UK. If the kids are being taken into care, who is to ensure they are cared for if the mother is for whatever reason not able to function ? As British citizens, they have the right to some assistance from British consular staff where appropriate, in whatever form.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:26 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 30):
From the story, it would seem that the paramedics were called to take care of the mother, and that the kids travelled with their mother to the hospital, from where they were taken into care.

The story says NOTHING about the paramedics being called. Zip, Nada, zilch. Reply 14 says 911 was called but not why.....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
User avatar
moo
Posts: 4102
Joined: Sun May 13, 2007 2:27 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:27 pm



Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 32):
They could at least indicate whether any kind of enquiry has been initiated into the case and the actions of their officers.

Why should they?

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 32):

Why not ? If the mother was unable to take care of the kids, surely the first task would be to contact relatives and arrange for the kids to go home. The embassy should be able to facilitate contact either relatives or the relevant authorities in the UK. If the kids are being taken into care, who is to ensure they are cared for if the mother is for whatever reason not able to function ? As British citizens, they have the right to some assistance from British consular staff where appropriate, in whatever form.

You really think the British Embassy system has the capacity to handle every single one of these types of cases, whenever they occur? That is why they are primarily left to the local authorities, and they only become involved if it becomes obvious a long term solution was required - which is normally longer than 72 hours. In this case, the local authorities did their job (albeit they left themselves open to criticism), and it is likely that the mother would have been well enough to travel within 72 hours of being admitted.
 
JAGflyer
Posts: 3453
Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 5:31 am

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:37 pm

If a child is being taken from an abusive house why would they immediately strip search them? You would think abused children has gone through enough stress from their family, but once they arrive at the orphanages they are treated like prisoners. The fact that they gave them a uniform is odd, as I would have thought they were wearing proper clothes, being tourists. These kids are 13 and 15, not little children. They are capable of caring for themselves either in a family suite in the hospital or in a hotel.
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:45 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 29):
They would have been placed in temporary care together - foster homes, of which local councils maintain an up to date list of that are willing to take emergency cases at very short notice, such as this.

That's what's done around here. As last resort, a nurse would typically jump in and let them stay at her own home before allowing them to be sent off to a juvenile detention center (New York calls them "orphanages").
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:49 pm



Quoting Moo (Reply 34):
Why should they?

Perhaps to reassure concerned citizens and taxpayers that this type of mishandling of vulnerable children will not be repeated. Or does that kind of thing not matter ?

Quoting Moo (Reply 34):
You really think the British Embassy system has the capacity to handle every single one of these types of cases, whenever they occur? That is why they are primarily left to the local authorities, and they only become involved if it becomes obvious a long term solution was required - which is normally longer than 72 hours. In this case, the local authorities did their job (albeit they left themselves open to criticism), and it is likely that the mother would have been well enough to travel within 72 hours of being admitted.

I wouldn't imagine that this type of case (minor children handed over to local welfare) happens every day. If one could rely on these welfare services to act correctly, the embassy of course does not need to be involved, but in this case they didn't, and so in future I think it would be desirable that Consular staff be informed and at least monitor what is happening to children in similar situations, to prevent a recurrence.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
zanl188
Posts: 3447
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:05 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:55 pm



Quoting AsstChiefMark (Reply 36):
As last resort, a nurse would typically jump in and let them stay at her own home before allowing them to be sent off to a juvenile detention center (New York calls them "orphanages").

Sounds nice but do you really expect a nurse at NYC hospital to open themselves up to the liability or possible accusations that could follow from doing this? Further do you really think the hospital would let anyone on the staff do this knowingly... I don't think so...

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 37):
I wouldn't imagine that this type of case (minor children handed over to local welfare) happens every day.

This is exactly why we should not jump to conclusions. This type of thing does not happen everyday. Leads me to believe there's more to the story than we are being told.....
Legal considerations provided by: Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe
 
JGPH1A
Posts: 15080
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 4:36 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:57 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 38):
This type of thing does not happen everyday. Leads me to believe there's more to the story than we are being told.....

Which is why it is so important for the welfare services to tell their version. This in turn is why I think their silence is more to do with a screw-up than standard protections for the children concerned.
Young and beautiful and thin and gorgeous AND BANNED ! Cya at airspaceonline.com, losers
 
AsstChiefMark
Posts: 10465
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:14 pm

RE: Family Holiday In The US? Just Don't Get Sick!

Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:03 pm



Quoting ZANL188 (Reply 38):
I don't think so...

You're right about NYC. If it were a smaller community-based hospital, a nurse might do that. That's because many nurses are part of the community's approved plan for such instances...believe it or not.

I'm still surprised that NYC still has orphanages, whether they're really homes for "throw-away" kids or a euphemism for a juvie detention center.
Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Red tail...Damned MSP...Red tail...Red tail

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, alberchico, Baidu [Spider], cjg225, scbriml and 11 guests