MD11Engineer
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Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:13 am

Yesterday I was standing at one of our parking position when a plane taxied in for a night stop. When the forward entry door was opened I noticed the female No.1 was having a serious argument with two male pasengers, in fact it looked as if one of the passengers was about to hit the woman. I shouted to the captain, who had his sliding window open that there was trouble in the cabin and ran up the stairs, my rechargable Mag Lite in my hand, seriously thinking that I would have to wack the guy who made IMO threatening movements towards the two female F/A's in the front galley. With the captain appearing (the stripes give him a certain authority) and me standing ready in the L1 door with the Mag Lite, it seemed to cool down the guys.
It transpired soon that the two guys, both in their 20s, both from Jordan, both sitting in the front row, got up while the plane was still taxying (this was confirmed by a pilot from another airline, who was deadheading with the plane), and became agressive when the Hungarian No.1 told them to sit down.
They still wanted to leave the plane, but the F/O had in meantime radioed for police, so I blocked the way to prevent the two guys from leaving the plane until the police arrived.
While we were waiting for the police the guys gave their version of the story (which, knowing the F/A in question quite well, didn't believe, especially since the deadheading pilot confirmed the F/A's version), in a way that us guys should understand that no real man takes orders from a woman.
Afew minutes later four cops appeared and took the men with them, the crew went to the crew room to write a report, while I stayed with the plane to do my night stop check.

I understand that on our flights to and from Morocco, female cabin crew often have problems with men from this region refusing to obey orders or instructions given to them by women. On the other hand, flights with hetero or, at least, not queenish gay male cabin crew (we have a few who are working out and look as if they could hold their own in a fist fight), usually do not have this problem.
BTW the female No.1 in question, even though she is in her mid-twenties, has many years of experience and is a cabin crew trainer.

Jan
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lobster
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:18 am

I'd comment on my real opinion, but I'm not opening up THAT can of worms.


Either way, it's a disgusting attitude and shameful. Surprised the deadheading pilot didn't step it up alittle.
 
Springbok747
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:31 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
BTW the female No.1 in question, even though she is in her mid-twenties

Do you have her phone number? What about her flight number? I wanted to track her flight.

Signed,
FLAIRPORT




Seriously though, what a bunch of f*cking losers. With attitude like that they should stay put in their region and not travel anywhere.
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allstarflyer
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:48 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
While we were waiting for the police the guys gave their version of the story (which, knowing the F/A in question quite well, didn't believe, especially since the deadheading pilot confirmed the F/A's version), in a way that us guys should understand that no real man takes orders from a woman.

At first, I thought this would be about some guys who can't wear the pants in their families.

Quoting Springbok747 (Reply 2):
Seriously though, what a bunch of f*cking losers. With attitude like that they should stay put in their region and not travel anywhere.

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MD11Engineer
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:13 am



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 3):
At first, I thought this would be about some guys who can't wear the pants in their families.

Just to make it clear:
I'm not speaking of men being henpecked or p*ssy whipped, but about men having to obey common sense, safety related orders by a woman having an official position of authority.

Jan
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stratosphere
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:25 am

I think these people who have these problems (and we know where they are from) need to stay the hell home. If you cannot abide by society in another land and cannot respect females in responsible positions you need to stay the hell away and crawl back in the hole you crawled out of. The rest of us don't want you in our society. It still amazes me how backwards ass the middle east is. It is funny I am sure the Saudi's were not happy with our female servicemen during Desert Storm but they had to bite their tongue.
 
greasespot
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:50 am

Why do you single out the middle east....I have that problem with western guys when I am working....There is sometihng fragile about the male ego that does not like being told what to do.....and gets more fractured when it is a woman....but hey I Always WIN....They may not like it but they will do as I say.

Gs
Sometimes all you can do is look them in the eye and ask " how much did your mom drink when she was pregnant with you?"
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:13 am



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 6):
Why do you single out the middle east....I have that problem with western guys when I am working....There is sometihng fragile about the male ego that does not like being told what to do.....and gets more fractured when it is a woman....but hey I Always WIN....They may not like it but they will do as I say.

Gs

Because I'm hearing this complaint from the cabin crew ever since we started with our Morrocco flights, before there were certain destinations in Eastern Europe, which were quite unpopular because of the attitude of mainly the male passengers (in this case often drunk and agressive), but not as many complaints as I hear from our cabin crew flying the Northern Africa routes, this agressive disobedience. It is clearly a cultural issue, especially the way they expected the captain, the cops and myself to show some male solidarity against the women (Wrong. Our solidarity went with our colleagues).
There exist problems with passengers from southern Italy as well, not doing as they are being told, but this is more of a cheerfull "rules are made to be broken" attitude from both male and female passengers.
In case of these two idiots, I managed to see the cover of their passports when the police officer told them to show some ID, that's how I knew that they were from Jordan.

Jan
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jetjack74
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:04 am

Back in early January, I was traveling on KLM from AMS-ABH-BAH, and from ABH-BAH, embarked a man with 3 women. One of the women was using a mobile phone and didn't switch it off. One of the male F/A's saw this woman on the cell phone and asked her to turn it off. She ignored him, not even looking at him, and continued talking. He asked her 5 more times, as well as 2 others, then asking the man this woman was travelling with. He didn't do nything either. The male crewmember went to get the purser a,d she came back and got her to turn it off. They were much nicer than I would've been. If she didn't turn it off after the 2nd time, I would've chucked her and the others travelling with her off the aircraft, even if she turned the phone off. I won't tolerate someone, not for a second, who ignores me when I have to enforce the regs. I have a serious patience problem with passengers who won't comply with crew instructions. They walk to their final destination for all I care.
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wilco737
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 9:49 am

Thank god that I am 6'3" and 200lbs. Big grin I'd love to have this argument with this guy! He wouldnt stand a chance Big grin

No, seriously! Its sad to see how bad people actually can behave! Maybe its part of their religion not to take any orders from women, but they are not in their country anymore, they are on an airplane and they HAVE to follow the orders given by the crew, no matter if F/A or FO or CP! The crew is in charge!!
Thanks for your quick help you offered there and notifying the captain!  thumbsup 
And I hope this guy will be in Guantanamo now Big grin


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Fiatstilojtd
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:33 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 9):

No, seriously! Its sad to see how bad people actually can behave!

Hi Phil,

you should see/hear how some of the former yugoslavian, jordan etc. guys react when they hear that the PILOT is female.  Yeah sure I was once on an Aer Lingus flight where the Captain was female, but she said that the male F/O will be PF, the serbian guy in front of me said something like "Puuuhh thank god, a male is flying" in "relief"....wonder what he would have done on my last flight with EI on the 31st of December - all female crew  bigthumbsup 
 
wilco737
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:36 am



Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 10):
you should see/hear how some of the former yugoslavian, jordan etc. guys react when they hear that the PILOT is female. Yeah sure I was once on an Aer Lingus flight where the Captain was female, but she said that the male F/O will be PF, the serbian guy in front of me said something like "Puuuhh thank god, a male is flying" in "relief"....

Yeah, I had some kind of the same experience once.... Unbelievable...

Quoting Fiatstilojtd (Reply 10):
all female crew bigthumbsup

I had that once as well: I was the FO and all of the other crew were female!!! And we had a nice 4 day trip alltogether  cloudnine   rotfl 

Oh and btw: I didnt take any orders from the Captain Big grin Big grin

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Fiatstilojtd
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:40 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 11):

Oh and btw: I didnt take any orders from the Captain Big grin Big grin

You are no Saftschubse after all.  Wink
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:11 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 9):
Thank god that I am 6'3" and 200lbs. Big grin I'd love to have this argument with this guy! He wouldnt stand a chance Big grin

Phil,

You met me a few years ago in CGN. I'm not a short @rse either at 6", and I think my working attire, which includes steel toed boots helped as well.  box   fight 

Jan
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wilco737
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:13 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 13):
Phil,

You met me a few years ago in CGN. I'm not a short @rse either at 6", and I think my working attire, which includes steel toed boots helped as well. box fight

Jan

Yupp, I remember you. And I am sure with your rechargable mag light you would've kicked his ass Big grin Big grin

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Fiatstilojtd
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:15 am



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 14):
Yupp, I remember you. And I am sure with your rechargable mag light you would've kicked his ass Big grin Big grin

Or have it "correct" between the fingers, broke the nose within seconds  Wink  Wink
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:30 am

Seriously, as soon as the two passengers realised that they were now facing two men, instead of two women in high heels (impractical, but the airline requires the female F/As to wear them during boarding and disembarking), they lost their will for a confrontation fast.

One thing they also didn't realise is that our station is a small place and the aviation people are a rather tight group in here, where we often meet off duty as well, no matter if we are working in the air or on ground (some of my colleagues have cabin crew girlfriends). If a passenger attacks one of our F/A's it becomes a personal matter fast.

Jan
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miamiair
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:30 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
Just to make it clear:

Your post was crystal clear. Good call and good back-up. How many others would have taken a seat and been spectators instead of active participants?

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 11):
Oh and btw: I didnt take any orders from the Captain

That's what the crash axe is for... Big grin
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jush
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:31 am

If they fly to different countries they have to respect the values and the cultures of the country they are flying to. If they cannot obey that. Please don't come and don't do business here. Disgusting what an attitude these 2 presented.
We try to adapt as well if we come to other countries, esp. China which has some strange habits from a European view. Nonetheless, we accept and adapt. So are they. But why can't our friends on the plane do that?

Regds
jush
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wilco737
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:35 am



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 17):
That's what the crash axe is for... Big grin

I never thought about this one, but good idea Big grin Big grin

But now on the MD11F I cannot reach it without getting up, HUGE cockpit Big grin

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MD11Engineer
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:39 am



Quoting Jush (Reply 18):
If they fly to different countries they have to respect the values and the cultures of the country they are flying to. If they cannot obey that. Please don't come and don't do business here. Disgusting what an attitude these 2 presented.

I think that both are actually living in Germany. At least one of them spoke fluent German (the other one didn't say much).

Jan
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qr332
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:00 pm

These two men's behavior is disgusting, but it isn't a widespread issue in Jordan. Jordan has several female ministers in the government, female MPs, and female police officers are quite common as well. These two men are just bigots, and men like them exist everywhere in the world.

Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 5):
It still amazes me how backwards ass the middle east is. It is funny I am sure the Saudi's were not happy with our female servicemen during Desert Storm but they had to bite their tongue.

How the hell are two bigots representative of an entire region? Just because they have a backwards ass mentality doesn't mean everyone in the Middle East does. Domestic violence occurs quite commonly in the US, for example - does that mean every American man is out there to beat his wife/girlfriend/lover?

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 9):
Maybe its part of their religion not to take any orders from women, but they are not in their country anymore, they are on an airplane and they HAVE to follow the orders given by the crew, no matter if F/A or FO or CP! The crew is in charge!!

What does this have to do with religion? What is up with people taking the actions of one or two individuals and then quickly assuming that they are acting this way JUST because they are Arab or Muslim? These attitudes are truly disgusting, and are almost as close minded as the attitudes the two men displayed to the F/A.
"The greatest threat to knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:21 pm

QR332,

Those guys seemed to be streetwise, but not very educated, probably from a more traditional family. Years ago, when I was a university student, I once took a job to install electrical wiring and lamps in the shop of a Lebanese second hand furniture dealer in Berlin. The job took me several days (and he cheated me when he paid me, but this is another story). That guy was running his rather big shop with several guys from his home country, I assume illegals with no option to work anywhere else the way he treated them.
One interesting thing I noticed, how spoiled his son was. The way his teenage son was talking to his mother would have earned me a slap from my mother and an @rsewhopping from my father, if I had tried it at home. The teenage daughters on the other hand had to work hard and take care of the younger children. They carried much more responsibility at their age than German counterparts.

When I was living in this district (Neukoelln of Berlin, a working class distric with a high number of lowly educated immigrants), I often noticed boys, mostly from Turkish and Arab families, who were thoroughly spoiled, especially the first sons. They ordered their mothers and sisters around like little kings. Bad performance in school was tolerated, studying was something for sissies. When they turned 20, they suddenly realised that without a high school degree they would be nothing, a hard drop from being the spoiled prince of the family to unemployed labourer on welfare.
These young men would often react in exactly the manner the two guys on the plane showed, overly sensitive about everything the perceived as a slight of their "honour" and very agressive.

Jan
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EvilForce
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:54 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
On the other hand, flights with hetero or, at least, not queenish gay male cabin crew (we have a few who are working out and look as if they could hold their own in a fist fight), usually do not have this problem.

Thanks for the clarification on the sexual orientation of the flight crews that don't have issues.  Yeah sure It was so key to your story. Not.

This "view" of yours perfectly illustrates the fragile male ego from the west. I'm surprised you didn't add a " *cough* not that there's anything wrong with that" comment.  Yeah sure Can't you see this is just as backwards assed a view as the one you are mocking? These guys attitudes that many decry was not that uncommon in the west just a few years ago. Their attitude they showed this female is about the same attitude your father, or surely grandfather would have displayed in their workplace. "Girl Fridays", "Coffee Girls", and other ridiculous behavior men engaged in at the office place in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

Quoting Stratosphere (Reply 5):
I think these people who have these problems (and we know where they are from) need to stay the hell home. If you cannot abide by society in another land and cannot respect females in responsible positions you need to stay the hell away and crawl back in the hole you crawled out of. The rest of us don't want you in our society. It still amazes me how backwards ass the middle east is. It is funny I am sure the Saudi's were not happy with our female servicemen during Desert Storm but they had to bite their tongue.

By the same token then, all western people visiting the middle east should also not imbibe alcohol. They also shouldn't eat or even drink water during the fasting religious observations as the local populace does. There are plenty of "ugly Americans" that show their ass the world round. What makes these two clowns from the middle east any different? Would you want to be pre-judged based on others experiences with "ugly Americans"?

These two passengers were simply showing their ignorance. Just as a few of you are on this thread.
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MD11Engineer
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:13 pm



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 23):
Thanks for the clarification on the sexual orientation of the flight crews that don't have issues. Yeah sure It was so key to your story. Not.

This "view" of yours perfectly illustrates the fragile male ego from the west. I'm surprised you didn't add a " *cough* not that there's anything wrong with that" comment. Yeah sure Can't you see this is just as backwards assed a view as the one you are mocking? These guys attitudes that many decry was not that uncommon in the west just a few years ago. Their attitude they showed this female is about the same attitude your father, or surely grandfather would have displayed in their workplace. "Girl Fridays", "Coffee Girls", and other ridiculous behavior men engaged in at the office place in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

Bullshit  redflag 
Listen, Mr. Political Correctness, you are clearly not working in the aviation industry. There are so many gay men working in our industry that you can't help knowing many of them personally. There exists a type of gay (and I know several of them personally), with very exagerated, effeminate behaviour, acting the ridiculous gay stereotype, which also has been critizsed by gay members of this forum many times. These guys will have a very hard time handling a situation with open aggression.
On the other hand I also know most of our gay F/A's (and at least one pilot) who don't make their sexual orientation a badge they wear for everybody to see and those guys COMMAND respect. Those who know them closer know that they are gay, but they are not ridiculous with it, it is just a part of their personality. Nobody will ever make fun of them.
It is like the difference between a real woman and a bimbo (or a real man and a super macho braggard).

Jan
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EvilForce
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:18 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 24):
Bullshit   
Listen, Mr. Political Correctness, you are clearly not working in the aviation industry. There are so many gay men working in our industry that you can't help knowing many of them personally. There exists a type of gay (and I know several of them personally), with very exagerated, effeminate behaviour, acting the ridiculous gay stereotype, which also has been critizsed by gay members of this forum many times. These guys will have a very hard time handling a situation with open aggression.
On the other hand I also know most of our gay F/A's (and at least one pilot) who don't make their sexual orientation a badge they wear for everybody to see and those guys COMMAND respect. Those who know them closer know that they are gay, but they are not ridiculous with it, it is just a part of their personality. Nobody will ever make fun of them.
It is like the difference between a real woman and a bimbo (or a real man and a super macho braggard).

Hate filled bigotry my dear backwards assed boy.
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
MD11Engineer
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:38 pm

Quoting EvilForce (Reply 25):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 24):
Bullshit
Listen, Mr. Political Correctness, you are clearly not working in the aviation industry. There are so many gay men working in our industry that you can't help knowing many of them personally. There exists a type of gay (and I know several of them personally), with very exagerated, effeminate behaviour, acting the ridiculous gay stereotype, which also has been critizsed by gay members of this forum many times. These guys will have a very hard time handling a situation with open aggression.
On the other hand I also know most of our gay F/A's (and at least one pilot) who don't make their sexual orientation a badge they wear for everybody to see and those guys COMMAND respect. Those who know them closer know that they are gay, but they are not ridiculous with it, it is just a part of their personality. Nobody will ever make fun of them.
It is like the difference between a real woman and a bimbo (or a real man and a super macho braggard).

Hate filled bigotry my dear backwards assed boy.

So you know me better than I know myself? You know whom I'm working and partying with? You know who my friends are?
This is the problem with the modern left. The "I'm holier (read politically correct) than you" attitude you guys spout.
Instead of looking at the reality you guys live in a politically correct cloud cuckoo land, keeping busy fitting the reality to the kumbaya theory.
Sorry, not all people are willing to discuss differences with you. They'd rather hit you over the head if you don't agree with them. There exist people, for whom the only thing which matters is if you can give them a beating or they you.
And, from experience, we have a higher number of certain incidents on certain flights to certain destinations, involving people from certain cultures, than we have with others.
Also, statistically, young male immigrants in Germany have been more involved in violent crime than other parts of the population.
And we have people of different sexual orientations behaving differently. We are not all behaving equally.
There exist gay people, who behave like the popular ridiculous stereotype displayed on TV. This has been widely critzised by the gay community on A.net (refering to certain threads about gay parades). I know several gays of this type personally.
Don't tell me that a man who behaves extremely soft and indecisive can sort out a problem with openly agressive passengers.
There are some situations, which require a tough stance and I can't imagine a certain male F/A (I can't post his name here), who used to work for our airline to handle it successfully. He was very service oriented and was first class in customer service, but he would get even less respect from the agressive passengers than the women and physically he wouldn't be a challenge either (being rather short).
On the other hand I know several gay male F/A's in our station, who regularly work out, are physically extremely fit and certainly would be able to handle such a situation (especially don't mess with the pilot, he looks like a retired American football player, though he is a funny guy to have a beer or two with).

The fact is that on these flights they need to have male cabin crew on board, who can act macho, or else they will not be obeyed by certain passengers.

Jan

[Edited 2008-01-31 06:42:55]

[Edited 2008-01-31 06:47:35]
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EvilForce
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:12 pm



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 26):
And we have people of different sexual orientations behaving differently. We are not all behaving equally.

I must congratulate you on the wonderfully accepting point of view you have and your thread thus far.

May I ask if we can expect a "Why Do Jews Act So ..... Well..... Jewish" thread soon?

Or a "Why Do Asians Eat Dog" thread?

Maybe even a "Why Do You Hate Bimbos" thread?

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 24):
It is like the difference between a real woman and a bimbo



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
There exist problems with passengers from southern Italy



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
started with our Morrocco flights



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Eastern Europe, which were quite unpopular because of the attitude of mainly the male passengers



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
as I hear from our cabin crew flying the Northern Africa routes



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
I'm not speaking of men being henpecked or p*ssy whipped



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
On the other hand, flights with hetero or, at least, not queenish gay male cabin crew (we have a few who are working out and look as if they could hold their own in a fist fight), usually do not have this problem.



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
two guys, both in their 20s, both from Jordan,



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
my rechargable Mag Lite in my hand, seriously thinking that I would have to wack the guy



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
often have problems with men from this region



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
when the Hungarian No.1 told them to sit down.



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
that's how I knew that they were from Jordan.

Yes, you are quite the enlightened one aren't you?
I bought a Venus Fly Trap today and was going to name it "Republican" but the fly trap is beneficial to the environment.
 
OHLHD
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:12 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 9):

This can't happen to you anymore that passenger gets mad at you but I would be be careful because the day were you open the cockpit door and you look eye to eye with a horse might come.  duck  Big grin Big grin



However, all fun aside, I say that this behaviour is disgusting but I have seen it with Arabs, Europeans, Americans, Muslims, Jews, white people, black people etc etc so I one can´t say that one particular group is known for doing it always. Finnish people can get mad too and behave like a§§holes.

As for the gay debate that is somehow going on: Just as MD11Engineer tells us there is certain group that tent to explode into hysteria everytime a champagne bottle is opened. However all gay F/A´s that I have met and i have met a lot of them have always been nice, friendly, helpful and on a high professional level.

As for the religious debate:

6 years ago while I was starting my aviation career I ran around the airport with a female Ramper and we ended up at an Arab airline and when she brought the captain the load-sheet he refused it with the words: I do not accept a load-sheet from a woman. Woman should cook and wash but not doing load-sheet.

The guy was from Great Britain........  Smile
 
columba
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Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:47 pm

I had a similar situation when I was doing my lawyer traineeship at the District Attorney Office in Berlin.
I was at court as a prosectutor and the judge was a very young woman. The defendant was a young man charged for assault who did not accept that the judge was a woman and totally ignored he. He only looked at me and when the judge was asking him questions he said everything at my direction.
The judge did not know what to do and the hearing was stopped. Since this was my last hearing as a prosecutor I did not know what happened afterwards.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:08 pm



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 9):
Thank god that I am 6'3" and 200lbs. I'd love to have this argument with this guy! He wouldnt stand a chance

Same here (except 240 here), WILCO737.  box 

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 26):
Don't tell me that a man who behaves extremely soft and indecisive can sort out a problem with openly agressive passengers.

I'll tell you. They sure as hell can. Judge not.

Men who don't take orders from women come in all shapes, sizes and backgrounds. It is not something unique to a particular area of the world. That behavior knows no boundries.

One thing, too, is that regardless of gender (or sexuality - because for some reason that was brought into it  Yeah sure ) crew have each on which to fall back. Call for other crew members to help out and assist.

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 28):
6 years ago while I was starting my aviation career I ran around the airport with a female Ramper and we ended up at an Arab airline and when she brought the captain the load-sheet he refused it with the words: I do not accept a load-sheet from a woman. Woman should cook and wash but not doing load-sheet.

If I were that female, I'd have told the captain "if you don't get the load-sheet from me, then you're not getting the load-sheet from anyone". What a f***tard.

I have zero tolerance for ignorance. Ignorance might have worked back in the day, but not now.
You can't cure stupid
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:16 pm



Quoting Greasespot (Reply 6):
..but hey I Always WIN Pepper spray always wins....They may not like it but they will do as I say.

Fixed that for you Greasepot.

Stay safe out there.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:26 pm



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 28):
6 years ago while I was starting my aviation career I ran around the airport with a female Ramper and we ended up at an Arab airline and when she brought the captain the load-sheet he refused it with the words: I do not accept a load-sheet from a woman. Woman should cook and wash but not doing load-sheet.

Assholes like that should have their lives made difficult. Have her supervisor (preferably another woman) give the CS the load sheet.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
OHLHD
Posts: 2903
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:30 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 32):



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 30):

She reacted fantastic. She looked at him and said: Then do it yourself. The topping was that the F/O did the loadsheet and they missed their slot and had a 3 hours delay. She eventually waived him good-bye but never never had a bad word or made any kind of gesture. She was super professional!  Smile
 
EWRCabincrew
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Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:32 pm



Quoting OHLHD (Reply 33):
She reacted fantastic. She looked at him and said: Then do it yourself. The topping was that the F/O did the loadsheet and they missed their slot and had a 3 hours delay. She eventually waived him good-bye but never never had a bad word or made any kind of gesture. She was super professional!

Excellent to hear. Bravo for her. I bet that there was a lot of silence in the cockpit on the flight back.
You can't cure stupid
 
MD11Engineer
Topic Author
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:09 am



Quoting EvilForce (Reply 27):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 26):
And we have people of different sexual orientations behaving differently. We are not all behaving equally.

I must congratulate you on the wonderfully accepting point of view you have and your thread thus far.

May I ask if we can expect a "Why Do Jews Act So ..... Well..... Jewish" thread soon?

Or a "Why Do Asians Eat Dog" thread?

Maybe even a "Why Do You Hate Bimbos" thread?

Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 24):
It is like the difference between a real woman and a bimbo



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
There exist problems with passengers from southern Italy



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
started with our Morrocco flights



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
Eastern Europe, which were quite unpopular because of the attitude of mainly the male passengers



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
as I hear from our cabin crew flying the Northern Africa routes



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4):
I'm not speaking of men being henpecked or p*ssy whipped



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
On the other hand, flights with hetero or, at least, not queenish gay male cabin crew (we have a few who are working out and look as if they could hold their own in a fist fight), usually do not have this problem.



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
two guys, both in their 20s, both from Jordan,



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
my rechargable Mag Lite in my hand, seriously thinking that I would have to wack the guy



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
often have problems with men from this region



Quoting MD11Engineer (Thread starter):
when the Hungarian No.1 told them to sit down.



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 7):
that's how I knew that they were from Jordan.

Yes, you are quite the enlightened one aren't you?

Oh, yes, maybe I should have offered then two guys tea and discussed their wrecked childhood? :I

I'm quite shure that you are not gay yourself, but belong to the group of professionally offended people.
Or you are just a troll, in this case go and F*ck yourself.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
MD11Engineer
Topic Author
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:42 am



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 30):
Quoting OHLHD (Reply 28):
6 years ago while I was starting my aviation career I ran around the airport with a female Ramper and we ended up at an Arab airline and when she brought the captain the load-sheet he refused it with the words: I do not accept a load-sheet from a woman. Woman should cook and wash but not doing load-sheet.

If I were that female, I'd have told the captain "if you don't get the load-sheet from me, then you're not getting the load-sheet from anyone". What a f***tard.

We had an incident with one of my younger colleagues sent to a freighter aircraft of a wellknown Middle eastern airline to check out a problem and this colleague was rejected by the crew as being "too young". They insisted on his supervisor to come and accepted him because he looked older (grey hair). The technician originally sent to the aiircraft was well capable of handling the problem though.
Our female OPS staff also report problems with this particular airline when preparing and handing over the load sheets, problems their male counterparts never have.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 30):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 26):
Don't tell me that a man who behaves extremely soft and indecisive can sort out a problem with openly agressive passengers.

I'll tell you. They sure as hell can. Judge not.

Ok, but I still have a problem imagining this particular male F/A I described earlier handle a situation with open aggression.

Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 30):
One thing, too, is that regardless of gender (or sexuality - because for some reason that was brought into it Yeah sure ) crew have each on which to fall back. Call for other crew members to help out and assist.

While the No.1 was going in like a terrier (the situation must have triggered her temper), the No.2, a rather young woman, looked a bit helpless. The other two cabin crew were in the aft galley and were blocked by the now standing passengers from interfering.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
MD11Engineer
Topic Author
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RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:01 am

One more thing, which came to my mind:
We are a low cost carrier. This could mean that e.g. we get a higher number of uneducated country bumbkins and labourers on our flights than the more expensive legacy airlines flying to the same destinations.
This means people, who'se vaslues come from remote, traditional villages.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4306
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:05 am



Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 36):
While the No.1 was going in like a terrier (the situation must have triggered her temper), the No.2, a rather young woman, looked a bit helpless. The other two cabin crew were in the aft galley and were blocked by the now standing passengers from interfering.

There are the pilots, an interphone, the p.a., other customers, leaving the situation. Common sense, too.
You can't cure stupid
 
MD11Engineer
Topic Author
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Men Not Taking Orders From Women

Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:09 am



Quoting EWRCabincrew (Reply 38):
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 36):
While the No.1 was going in like a terrier (the situation must have triggered her temper), the No.2, a rather young woman, looked a bit helpless. The other two cabin crew were in the aft galley and were blocked by the now standing passengers from interfering.

There are the pilots, an interphone, the p.a., other customers, leaving the situation. Common sense, too.

The pilots didn't know anything about the trouble in the cabin until I told them, the other passengers were standing back, not wanting to get involved.

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi

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