lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:51 am

This IS NOT a gun control debate!!


I'm looking for advice on a good weapon to carry for a concealed weapons permit. More than likely it will spend more time in my vehicle or house than on my person. So far the Glock 26 seems OK, it's cheap for me because I get military discount, and the size it right. I'm not aware of any other manufacturer that gives decent discounts to military, only LEO's. The other pistol I was looking at was H&K USP compact .40 So anyone have an decent suggestions?
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:56 am

Throwing stars

Ain't I a stinker?
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 1:58 am



Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
The other pistol I was looking at was H&K USP compact .40

I am a big fan of H&K myself but if this thing is just going to be in the car and used for dropping a dirtbag at the window the Glock will be just fine.. The H&K is just far too much money if you aren't going to take it out and play with it occasionally.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Springbok747
Posts: 4007
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:00 am

How about a Kahr? The 9mm looks and feels awesome and the 3.6" barrel is ideal for concealed carry.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1_9mm_cw.html

I have one..and love it. But I can't carry it on person as that is banned in this country...hence this is for range use only.
אני תומך בישראל
 
MD11Engineer
Posts: 13916
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:25 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:10 am

Tommy gun in a violin case, 1920s Chicago style?  Silly

Jan
Je Suis Charlie et je suis Ahmet aussi
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:12 am

Hmm....how about a Desert Eagle?  scratchchin   wink 

I too am curious. I will be turning 21 soon and will be looking to buy a handgun and obtain my Concealed Carry Permit.
I kind of want to buy an M9 since that is what I'll be issued and have to use when I deploy on active duty so I want to be proficient on it, though I doubt it's easy to carry "concealed" when on your person.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:16 am



Quoting Confuscius (Reply 1):
Throwing stars

Nice!!

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 2):
The H&K is just far too much money

Yeah, I was thinking they were spendy, but didn't have a price list handy.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 5):
Hmm....how about a Desert Eagle?

Well, they do make the Baby Eagle, but it's still a little too big. But, if I had the money laying around I'd for sure have me a DE .50 !! Not much use for it, but fun as hell to play with
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:08 am

Have you looked at a Springfield Armory XD?

I am a big fan of the XD. They are about the same price as a Glock, have an additional safety, accessories are easy to come by and I think they feel better in my hand. Also, in my opinion the factory trigger pull is a little nicer.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:25 am

OK...if you like Glocks (for price and reliability concerns more than anything else) then the GL32 in .357sig is an excellent choice. You can get it with the hogue wrap for the grip and meprolights or some other tritium sights. It's compact enough for easy concealment, and big enough to deal with the recoil. The .357sig round has excellent ballistics (as close as you can get to the .357 magnum round that the DoJ study said was the number-one one-shot-stopper) and you can fit 12 or 13 rounds. You can also use .40S&W mags and if you ever want to you can use the .40 bbl in it to change calibers (not that I think that's worthwhile).

If you want a larger caliber but still compact enough to conceal easily then get an Officers Model (or Defender) .45 ...... Colt of course makes a great one, and Kimber or Springfield make excellent products. My current favorite shooter is the Kimber TLE/RL ..... but they do offer a .45 in a compact model. They will only carry 6 or 7 rounds, but carry the extra mag and practice. Remember that if you miss with all the bullets you can always throw the 1911 at them and do almost as much damage.

Alot will depend on how large you are and how much you will practice. To be good with a Grock you need to spend more time.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:34 am

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
then the GL32 in .357sig is an excellent choice.

I have to disagree.. The ammo is too expensive to really practice with. It is a caliber that needs to just go away much like 10mm and .45GAP

I say stick with the mainstays of automatics.. 9mm Luger, .40S&W or .45ACP. This way your ammunition can be bought anywhere on the way to the range and it is cheap enough you can buy a bunch of it.

Personally, I am a fan of .45 If the first shot blows their head clean off the recoil isn't really an issue.

Also, I hear incredibly mixed reviews on Kimbers.. Some people positively love them.. Other people have horror stories about how inconsistent their quality is. Springfield is pretty universally liked in the 1911 world.

[Edited 2008-01-31 19:36:15]
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
L-188
Posts: 29881
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 1999 11:27 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:41 am



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 9):
I say stick with the mainstays of automatics.. 9mm Luger, .40S&W or .45ACP. This way your ammunition can be bought anywhere on the way to the range and it is cheap enough you can buy a bunch of it.

Agree completely,

The one mistake most people make is that they don't practice enough.

The problem with that list though is that most of those are only available on large frame weapons, which you really don't want as a concealed weapon.

I have a Polish P-64 in 9mm Makarov. I haven't felt the need to conceal carry it, but that would be my first pick over my 1911 and M9.

Second choice would probably be to pick out a Walter P22. That right I said P22, and in 22LR. It is a small caliber weapon, but don't underestimate it's potential. The nice thing is that the scaled up P99 by both Walter and S&W exists if you feel the need to go up to centerfire shells.
OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:56 am

Opinions will vary, so first off let me say that you ought to get what you can shoot most accurately with, and what you are going to be most comfortable carrying if you are going to carry.

Get something you enjoy shooting and will be able to practice with......alot. Carrying is a responsibility and if you plan on doing it do the smart and responsible thing and practice......alot. Learn the laws too.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 9):
I have to disagree.. The ammo is too expensive to really practice with. It is a caliber that needs to just go away much like 10mm and .45GAP

I understand your concern here, but the supply and availability of the 357sig ammo is incredible. Having it become the choice of several federal agencies, as well as police agencies around the country, has helped it become readily available. 10mm is a bit more difficult to find, and .45GAP is even harder.

I find ammo for practice to be no more expensive than the .45 I use (since I never use Wolf or any of the eastern European brands for practice) and I shoot alot of both. I'm not knocking the .45...it's my favorite....but the .357sig is a great round.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 9):
I hear incredibly mixed reviews on Kimbers..

Perhaps in the past, but over the last several years they've been at the top of the marketplace. There's always some poster on some forum who will bitch about anything, and we have to remember that we hear mostly about the bitches rather than the attaboys. I simply see guys at the range, and reports from the guys who bought them at the gunstores and they almost all have had nothing but glowing reviews for their Kimbers.

Springfield is a good pistol....is it better than the Kimber? Hard to tell. They're both sought after. I still like the Colt Gold Cups...it's just that they're not the only game in town anymore when you want a precision, match-quality .45.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
User avatar
falstaff
Posts: 5577
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 6:17 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:07 am

I usually carry a CZ70 (32 auto) in my boot. It is a nice small pistol. It doesn't cost much to buy and it is reliable.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 10):
but that would be my first pick over my 1911

I love the 1911, but it so big it is hard to conceal.

Quoting Lobster (Reply 6):
Well, they do make the Baby Eagle, but it's still a little too big. But, if I had the money laying around I'd for sure have me a DE .50 !! Not much use for it, but fun as hell to play with

The DE is a neat gun, but I don't like it. My cousin has one and I have shot it on several occasions. The thing is so big that is impossible to conceal and it is so powerful it is hard to control.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:44 am



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 7):
Have you looked at a Springfield Armory XD?

I just did. Thanks. I'm going next week to look to see what they have or can order. Unfortunately I don't have any gun shops around here.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 11):
Get something you enjoy shooting and will be able to practice with......alot. Carrying is a responsibility and if you plan on doing it do the smart and responsible thing and practice......alot. Learn the laws too.

 checkmark   checkmark 

I'm used to carrying and old POS M9 thats probably older than I am.

The conceal thing will be new too me which will take a little getting used too, but I guess the course you have too take in MN is a decent one. I know one of the instructors and when the weather warms up, he'll be doing another class.

I've been reading alot about laws and have checked out http://handgunlaw.us/ though not sure how accurate all of it is.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:25 am

Hooo, boy. Books have been written on this issue.

First off, concealability. Honestly it entirely depends on the person what they are able to pack away without others noticing. Right now I'm wearing a full size 1911. Have been wearing it all day. Earlier in a suit and tie, now scrubby jeans & T-shirt. No need to try and work with a micro-compact when you can carry a full sized pistol.

Which is of course, second. Micro-compact pistols. Yeah, they're cute, small and can be hidden anywhere.. and are generally a pain in the ass to keep a grip on. That of course is generally a bad thing in case you ever actually need to keep a grip on it.. such as, having to use the gun. If you have to twist your hand into contortions to hold a firearm, think about how well that will work out for you under stress and full of adrenaline.

Third consideration, micro-bullets. Namely the .22 .25 and .32. I call them nose guns. Because if you ever have to use them your best bet is to jam them up some guys nose before pulling the trigger. These are definately not the caliber to chose if you want to do your shooting from more than spit swapping range... but, they sure as heck beat not having anything at all.

Forth, and most important in my opinion.. how does the gun fit you. In size, function and feel. It doesn't do you any good to get the most desired firearm on the planet if your fingers can't reach the trigger or the recoil is uncomfortable. Some of the newer pistols have customizable grip sizes so that you can fit the pistol to your hand. My advice, take a look around at a store that lets you handle the firearm and see which ones fit your hand. If you can rent firearms even better, test fire the ones that fit you best to see which one you are comfortable with. Just because two pistols are in the same caliber doesn't mean they will feel the same when they fire. Pistols with a high bore axis like the Beretta will have more felt muzzle whip than ones with a low bore axis like the CZ-75. Also, things like double coil recoil springs will actually give some of the compacts less felt recoil impulse than full sized frames.

Fifth, get good leather. Well, okay it doesn't have to be leather per se... Nylon and kydex also work. The point is, get a good holster to hold your pistol. It and you deserve it. Sticking a pistol in a pocket or waistband is a recipe brewed by Darwin.

Okay, mumbjumbo out of the way and onto the fun talk..

Recomendations:

CZs. Okay, I know you guys saw that one coming, but I'm serious. The -75s are in my opinon one of the finest combat pistols money can buy in both full size and compact... and they generally are lower priced than most other pistols. The -01 models are the new kids on the block, and only come in 9mm so far, but have lived up to the -75s legacy every inch. Just stay away from the -100 model unless you want to build your finger muscles up.

Glocks. The original combat tupperware. Revolutionary when they came out, the Glock really is the "Meh" of combat firearms. the grip angle really isn't that great and they have case support problems in the high pressure calibers. Glocks do run like machines though.. you really have to try to break them. Bonus: Everyone makes extras for Glocks.

Hi-point. The ugly a sin cheap gun. Yeah, it's fun.. and cheap.. but it's bulky and heavy. Get one to have fun on the range with. Get anything else to carry.

HK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

Ruger. I can't say enough good things about Rugers revolvers.. I can't say enough bad things about Rugers auto loading pistols.

Sigs. Excellent firearms. Sig will appreciate you giving them your bank account numbers too..

S&W. Stay away from the Sigma unless you really just want a Glock knock off... but, the M&P series are outstanding firearms available in 9mm, .40 and .45. the interchangeable grips allow it to be fit to the users hand. I really think the M&P series are better than the Glocks.

Taurus. Here's a little Taurus secret. Their PT-1911 is made on the same assembly line that Springfield 1911s are... and you get an ambi safety. The 24/7 is also good.

Quoting Lobster (Reply 13):
Unfortunately I don't have any gun shops around here.

I bet you do and you just don't know it.

Go here and do a search for your zip code:

http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp

That's the list of every licensed firearms dealer. Some of them are private guys, but a lot of them have stores.

Good luck.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:37 am



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
HK. Because you suck. And we hate you.

People keep saying that.. and then in the next breath ask if I will let them shoot my USP .45 again.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:50 am

Have you read the story behind "HK: Because you suck. And we hate you"?

It's really quite funny.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...-because-you-suck-and-we-hate-you/
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:18 am





Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
he Glock really is the "Meh" of combat firearms



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
Sigs. Excellent firearms

The best cost the most.  yes 

My carry is a P229. I qualifed on a P226 for my conceal carry in Texas.




Disclaimer: Sig Sauer pays me.

A lot of amateur opinions on this board about carry weapons. A short list of Anet members to consider chatting with would be:


  • Queso
  • MiamiAir
  • MDorBust
  • ANCflyer


Hope my  twocents  helped.
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:03 am



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 16):
Have you read the story behind "HK: Because you suck. And we hate you"?

Yeah, I have seen it a couple times. I chalk a lot of what it draws from upto the same disease that infects people regarding BMWs. They have likely never driven one but they cum in their pants at the thought of it. However, people who have actually driven them know they are just another car with all the same trade offs as other cars. Some of these people even drive BMWs- others paid less, got as much or more car and don't pay $150 for an oil change every 8,000 miles.

The people who whack off over H&K need to realize its just another 1911 knock off with some minor improvements. Just like Colt needs to realize they are still trying to get almost $1000 for a hundred year old design with not that many improvements. Then again most automatics out there are 1911 knock offs.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
boeingfever777
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:35 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:09 am

Would have to say SIG which I currently carry:


Sig P245

I also have a SW MP 9mm which I have taught my wife to shoot on and she enjoys it. I would also recommend Kimber.

Hell if all else fails...



Get a grizzly bear gun.
Faire du ciel le plus bel endroit de la terre.
 
User avatar
fxramper
Posts: 5837
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2005 12:03 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:12 am



Quoting BoeingFever777 (Reply 19):
Get a grizzly bear gun

ANCflyer's wilderness carry.

 rotfl 

A lot of federal agents are trading in their Glocks for FN. I would consider carrying one.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:20 am

I use a Para Warthog 45 for my carry weapon. It is small, it fits in all my cars clove boxes including my motorcycle, powerful and reasonably accurate. It is the gun on the lower right. The only bad thing about it is that it is not exactly cheep, but then if your life is on the line, you don't want to screw around with a cheep weapon.


http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee154/airfoilsguy/PictureorVideo038.jpg
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:30 am



Quoting FXramper (Reply 20):
A lot of federal agents are trading in their Glocks for FN

I think more people should consider this. I ran 100 rounds through an FN 5-7 and was in love after about the third round. The best comparison for recoil is a BB gun. Also, it gives you 22 chances to hit something instead of 12-16. I shot very well with this gun as would just about anyone who could get past the incredible amount of noise it makes.

My only gripe was I did have some feed issues with the one I fired.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:41 am

What is an FN? I goggled it and came up with this thing. It looks like a lot of fun but concealment might be a problem and I am sure law enforcement would frown on me if I mounted that on the side of my Mustang.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/56/Paris_Air_Show_2007-06-24_n24.jpg/800px-Paris_Air_Show_2007-06-24_n24.jpg
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 8:48 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seveN

It's Wiki but its good enough.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:47 am



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 22):

I think more people should consider this.

WOW, I think I found my new gun to purchase. It looks expensive though. How much do they usually run. The ammo looks unique as well. Is ammo hard to find? Is it even legal to carry? I think I remember some kind of law that said you cold only have a clip that holds 16 or less bullets.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:51 am



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 25):
How much do they usually run.

About $1000

The ammo is slightly more than .45 though its hard to come by (wal-mart doesnt stock it)
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 9:54 am



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 26):


Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 25):
How much do they usually run.

About $1000

The ammo is slightly more than .45 though its hard to come by (wal-mart doesnt stock it)

Can you fire it at a pistol range or do you have to go to a rifle range?
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:12 am



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 27):
Can you fire it at a pistol range or do you have to go to a rifle range?

The one I fired was at a pistol range but if it is an indoor range I would suggest asking if their backstop is up to the task.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 11:35 am

It has been said by others, but it bears repeating: Get something you are comfortable with. Become familiar with it. Shoot often. Take a defensive pistol course; think of it as initial training and then get recurrent training. Remember your mind is the weapon, the firearm is a tool; use your head.

Now my two cents on pistols:

CZ's: Haven't carried one, can't offer an opinion. They shoot nice and are reliable.

Ruger: Pistols: Don't care for them, too clunky. Revolvers: GP100 is an excellent wheel gun.

1911's: A classic that has been cloned by many, perfected by few. Kimber, Para Ordinance, Springfield, Sig, S&W and Colt make excellent pistols in different sizes. The .45 ACP is a great round, but you limit yourself in firepower (exception is the Para Ordinance with high caps).

I carried this for a while:

It is an Officer's sized .45. Accurate, concealable, the recoil was manageable.

Glocks:
Some hate them, I love them. I have seven of them. One of them is my carry gun.

Glock 29:
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/miamiair/Glock29.jpg
I like the 10mm. I load my ammo so I don't have a problem with it. Several people shot it at the last BHM meet, they can tell you if they liked it or not. I like having 13 rounds of a hot cartridge (another 12 in a mag pouch or vest pocket)

Springfield XD: That is what my wife carries, and she's pretty good with it. She has the XD9 Sub Compact.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c325/miamiair/XD9Compact.jpg
I can't say anything bad about these pistols. Hers shoots about 1K rounds/month and has never had a malfunction.

H&K's: Expensive. I never had a problem with my USP in .40.

Sigs: Ask Cheesy, he's the Sig Spokesman. I have shot them, they are fine guns, but not my cup of tea.

Taurus: Inexpensive, good guns. Wouldn't worry about it if I had to carry one.

Beretta 92/M-9: It is satisfactory, but would be at the bottom of my list.

Browning Hi-Power: Another classic, that with the proper refinements is an excellent, combat proven firearm.

Calibers: 9mm and up. That makes it economical to train with. I don't think the .380 has the power as well as the .32. Their upside is that they are small and very concealable, thus making them "effective" in that capacity. They are not guns you want to get into a gun fight with. By that I mean swapping magazines and such.

It is too early and I know I am leaving something out, but here goes. Got to go get my Cuban coffee.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:15 pm

I'm really late to this thread, but I'll throw in my two cents. I'll try to group these quotes by subject.

Quoting Lobster (Thread starter):
So far the Glock 26 seems OK



Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
OK...if you like Glocks (for price and reliability concerns more than anything else) then the GL32 in .357sig is an excellent choice.



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
Glocks. The original combat tupperware. Revolutionary when they came out, the Glock really is the "Meh" of combat firearms. the grip angle really isn't that great and they have case support problems in the high pressure calibers. Glocks do run like machines though.. you really have to try to break them. Bonus: Everyone makes extras for Glocks.

Lobster, how much time to you have so far with a Glock? DL021 and MDorBust have made excellent points about them and I agree with MD's summary of Glocks very closely. If price is your main concern, you can get a good bang for the buck with a Glock, but there might be a better choice if you look around a bit.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 5):
I kind of want to buy an M9 since that is what I'll be issued and have to use when I deploy on active duty so I want to be proficient on it, though I doubt it's easy to carry "concealed" when on your person.

I have carried a PT-100 concealed inside the waistband and it's frame is a little bigger than the M9. It's a little tougher to make it comfortable, but it's hard to argue with a full-size gun if you can manage it and can conceal it. Remember, nobody wishes they had a smaller gun after they've been through a gunfight.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 5):
Hmm....how about a Desert Eagle?



Quoting Falstaff (Reply 12):
The DE is a neat gun, but I don't like it. My cousin has one and I have shot it on several occasions. The thing is so big that is impossible to conceal and it is so powerful it is hard to control.

Just to prove to some doubters it could be done, I have carried my DE concealed in a shoulder holster. Strangely enough, I was carrying it as a backup gun because it would not be my first choice in a forseeable real-life engagement. And you have to think about what it's going to look like to the responding officers after you've legally used it to defend yourself. Think about how the prosecuting attorney will sound... "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this is the gun the defendant was carrying on the fateful day he gunned-down the alleged rapist. And this is the gun that our local police officers carry (he's showing them a Glock 26)." Then he passes your DE around to the jury for them to hold it. Yeah... you're no longer the good guy. Stick with a gun that is still effective and manageable for defense.

Oh yeah, and for those who think it's not controllable, again to prove a point, the last time I shot my qualification for my Texas Concealed Handgun License, I used my Desert Eagle. My score? 250/250. The DE can be as good as a 1911 in the right hands.


Here we go with the caliber wars...

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
The .357sig round has excellent ballistics (as close as you can get to the .357 magnum round that the DoJ study said was the number-one one-shot-stopper) and you can fit 12 or 13 rounds.

Agreed, and confirmed by Evan Marshall and Edwin Sanow's studies and tests.

Quoting DL021 (Reply 8):
You can also use .40S&W mags and if you ever want to you can use the .40 bbl in it to change calibers (not that I think that's worthwhile).

That's how I do it. I'll shoot 90% of my practice with the .40 S&W barrel because it's much cheaper, and shoot 10% with the .357Sig barrel, and I carry it with that barrel.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 9):
I have to disagree.. The ammo is too expensive to really practice with. It is a caliber that needs to just go away much like 10mm and .45GAP

See above. .357Sig is here to stay. Get a .40 barrel and practice with that.

Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 9):
Personally, I am a fan of .45 If the first shot blows their head clean off the recoil isn't really an issue.

Silly, and that's a myth. .45 is not measureably more effective on the street than .40S&W or .357Sig and recoil is just not that big of a deal. I watch petite women shoot .45's in competition and they kick a lot of the guy's asses with 9mm's. And I train women that shoot their husband's .45's and say "What's the big deal?"


What do I carry? Depends on my mood and where I am going and how I'm dressed but most days you'll find me carrying a SigSauer SP2022 in .357Sig.

 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:08 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 30):
Silly, and that's a myth. .45 is not measureably more effective on the street than .40S&W or .357Sig and recoil is just not that big of a deal.

Personally, I think the recoil from full power .40 S&W rounds is more harsh than that from the .45 ACP in most frames.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:12 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 31):
Personally, I think the recoil from full power .40 S&W rounds is more harsh than that from the .45 ACP in most frames.

Even 9mm seems more harsh to some, but it's usually perceived recoil due to the sound of the higher pressure cartridge rather than the push from the weapon itself.
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:34 pm

You know, I could do that math to finally figure out if a 165gr .40 S&W has more energy than a 230gr .45 ACP.. but, meh.. that's math.
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:52 pm

One more thing about Glock...carrying it is very easy, and it's comfortable. It's impervious to pretty much anything you try to do to it. It doesn't shoot Wolf or S&B ammo, or really anything made outside the west, very well. Use decent ammo, and practice. Have I mentioned that?

There are dozens of high quality weapons out there, and again...opinions will vary. Compare how they feel in your hand at the store. Dryfire them (it's ok...you won't hurt the weapon unless it's an old 1911 and then probably not) and see what feels best. Go to enough places that you've tried it all from HK to Sig to Walther to Colt to Smith to....are you getting this? Try them all in your hand and find the one that feels best. That's the one that'll probably be easiest for you to shoot well with. Then take the top three you selected and find out about reliability and performance. Select the ammo after that. Then practice......that keeps coming up.

Quoting Lobster (Reply 13):

I'm used to carrying and old POS M9 thats probably older than I am.

Bite me...I remember swapping my M1911 for a brand new M9 and not being happy about it.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 33):
You know, I could do that math to finally figure out if a 165gr .40 S&W has more energy than a 230gr .45 ACP.. but, meh.. that's math.

Speaking as an English and History major I'll say that math is not as important....unless you're building a bridge or using explosives....or doing something that requires math. Then history teaches you that not using your math can sting.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:57 pm



Quoting CaptOveur (Reply 24):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Five-seveN

It's Wiki but its good enough.

You jerk.  Wink

I actually got excited with your link and was going to buy one. I like light guns with power and this is definitely cool. All of the sources that I saw say you can only buy the Five SevenN if you are police though. Is that true you tease?
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:06 pm



Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 35):
All of the sources that I saw say you can only buy the Five SevenN if you are police though.

No. That's marketing hype just like ammo that is marked "Law Enforcement Use Only".

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Ca...ique-Nationale/Other-Semi-auto.htm
 
SBBRTech
Posts: 403
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:32 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:09 pm

Man, that's a lot of guns. Some look quite sleek, almost like toys.
I always wondered: are you allowed to test (one little shot, maybe) weapons in the store before buying ?
How does the US law deal with the calibers - can you buy whatever caliber you wish or are there limits for how big a gun one can get?
"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:15 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 36):
No. That's marketing hype just like ammo that is marked "Law Enforcement Use Only".

http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Ca...o.htm

Oooh. Thank you Queso. Do you have to be a dealer to buy this though?

Are these available to the public in gun stores as well? My tax return now has a purpose.  Smile
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
MDorBust
Posts: 4914
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 10:10 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:17 pm



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 37):
I always wondered: are you allowed to test (one little shot, maybe) weapons in the store before buying ?

Some stores that have attached ranges will rent out firearms. It usually won't be the specific firearm you are going to buy, but a store owned one of the same model.

Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 37):
How does the US law deal with the calibers - can you buy whatever caliber you wish or are there limits for how big a gun one can get?

Some places have outlawed the .50 BMG. There is also a prohibition on some firearms that have been declared to be "destructive devices"
"I KICKED BURNING TERRORIST SO HARD IN BALLS THAT I TORE A TENDON" - Alex McIlveen
 
lobster
Posts: 653
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:03 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:20 pm



Quoting Queso (Reply 30):
Lobster, how much time to you have so far with a Glock?

I've shot a few full size, but nothing compact. My pistol experience is basically the Beretta 9mm

Quoting DL021 (Reply 34):
Bite me...I remember swapping my M1911 for a brand new M9 and not being happy about it.

LOL. At least we finally got M-4's. But thats a whole new thread on why the Army needs a new carbine.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 14):
I bet you do and you just don't know it.

Go here and do a search for your zip code:

Yup, there were a few home dealers, but still closest shot is about 40 miles away. Found a few people who also teach Utah carry classes around here though.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:21 pm



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 37):
I always wondered: are you allowed to test (one little shot, maybe) weapons in the store before buying ?

There is a range I go to in Columbus that also sells guns. They have guns you can rent for like 5 to 10 bucks. They have anything from derringers, Desert Eagles all the way up to fully automatic AR-15s. That is the place I bought my AR-15 from.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
Queso
Posts: 3109
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:28 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:31 pm



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 37):
I always wondered: are you allowed to test (one little shot, maybe) weapons in the store before buying ?

You can at some places, or you might find a range that rents the gun you're interested in for a day to make sure you like it. It might even be worth a day's drive to try it, like Airfoilsguy said...

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 41):
There is a range I go to in Columbus that also sells guns. They have guns you can rent for like 5 to 10 bucks.



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 37):
How does the US law deal with the calibers - can you buy whatever caliber you wish or are there limits for how big a gun one can get?

No restrictions in most places until you get into something like the cannon calibers.

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 38):
Oooh. Thank you Queso. Do you have to be a dealer to buy this though?

Sure, several of them. You do too, just go to one of your local gun shops and ask them if they can receive a gun for you from another FFL. Most of them charge $25-$50 to do it, but if you do lots of business with them they will waive that. If you just tell them you saw it on GA or GunBroker a lot of times they can just buy it directly from there and charge you the receipt fee as a markup. Or they might have their own source for it, just ask around. Most of them are more than eager to have you as a customer!

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 38):
Are these available to the public in gun stores as well?

Yep. But you'll have to look around a bit for that FN, there aren't as many of them around as there are Glocks, Rugers, S&W's, etc.
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:36 pm



Quoting Miamiair (Reply 29):

I carried this for a while:

The more I look at that, the more I think that it looks just like my Para Warthog. Are they made by the same company?
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
SBBRTech
Posts: 403
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2007 2:32 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:37 pm



Quoting MDorBust (Reply 39):
There is also a prohibition on some firearms that have been declared to be "destructive devices"

I see. But have any handgun been classified in that category?
I ask it 'cos there's the Desert Eagle, which from what I've seen and heard it's quite a canon (down here it's almost an urban legend). Would you say the D.E. is really more effective than the other "smaller" guns shown here?
"I'm beginning to get the hang of this flying business" - C3PO
 
dl021
Posts: 10836
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 12:04 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:38 pm



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 37):
How does the US law deal with the calibers - can you buy whatever caliber you wish or are there limits for how big a gun one can get?

You can buy pretty much what you like as long as it's not fully automatic.

Quoting MDorBust (Reply 39):
Some places have outlawed the .50 BMG. There is also a prohibition on some firearms that have been declared to be "destructive devices"

I believe that calibers over .50 (unless it's black powder) are considered destructive devices.....

Quoting Fumanchewd (Reply 38):
Are these available to the public in gun stores as well?

I'll sell you one if you like,,,new in the box......we can make arrangements through your local gun dealer for transfer purposes. I happen to have one I don't really have a use for....I bought it on impulse and now it sits collecting dust in the safe. Three mags, all accessories...nice piece.
Is my Pan Am ticket to the moon still good?
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:47 pm



Quoting SBBRTech (Reply 44):
D.E. is really more effective than the other "smaller" guns shown here?

The 500 makes the D.E. feel like a ladies gun. I shot 20 rounds out of one and my hand hurt for the rest of the day. You can actually feel the concussion in the next booth over.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
BCAInfoSys
Posts: 2617
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 11:09 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:48 pm



Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 46):
The 500 makes the D.E. feel like a ladies gun. I shot 20 rounds out of one and my hand hurt for the rest of the day. You can actually feel the concussion in the next booth over.

You're not kidding! Last time I was in SLC there was a Russian guy that was 4 or 5 stalls over shooting a bigass .500. I'm telling you, the concussion wave from that thing really hits you. Not to mention the noise. Holy shit...
Militant Agnostic - I don't know and you don't either.
 
miamiair
Posts: 4249
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:42 pm

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:52 pm



Quoting BCAInfoSys (Reply 47):
I'm telling you, the concussion wave from that thing really hits you. Not to mention the noise. Holy shit...

I like my AR SBR with a 7" barrel. Took it to the indoor range to sight it in. Big mistake. Where are all those flash bulbs coming from??? Big pressure wave and a helacious flash.
Molon Labe - Proud member of SMASH
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Good Concealed Carry Weapon

Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:54 pm



Quoting DL021 (Reply 45):
I'll sell you one if you like,,,new in the box......we can make arrangements through your local gun dealer for transfer purposes. I happen to have one I don't really have a use for....I bought it on impulse and now it sits collecting dust in the safe. Three mags, all accessories...nice piece.

Ok. I'll im you in the next month and we can see where it goes.
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Mani87 and 9 guests