bmacleod
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Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:33 pm

Obama has to be very concerned over Michigan and Florida - both are rich in delgates, both lost their delegates when their primaries were re-scheduled and both went heavily for Hillary Clinton.

If Hillary manages to get those delegates seated (150-200) it could be the end of Obama's campaign - or would it?

[Edited 2008-02-08 10:37:04]
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D L X
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:41 pm

Hillary won in a state where she was the only one on the ballot, but lost to "none of the above."
Hillary won in a state where she campaigned even though signing a pledge that she wouldn't campaign there.

Sounds to me like Hillary can't keep her promises.

I don't think Obama is terribly concerned - those delegates will not be seated. A re-vote is more likely than seating the delegates from those non-primaries.
 
Pope
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:49 pm

I think you'll see absolute outrage if this happens. The DNC told candidates not to campaign in these states. Changing the rules after the fact is just not right. Plus the DNC loses all authority to regulate the process going forward. Every state in the country is going to shoot for an early primary next time around because there's no penalty for ignoring DNC instructions.
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daedaeg
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:01 pm

There is going to be mayhem if those delegates are seated. You'll have people like Ted Kennedy having a hissy fit. There will definitely be a walk out and protest by the Congressional Black Caucus. Overall it would be a bad idea for the dems. All the candidates agreed to the rules. Can't change the rules towards the end of the game.

[Edited 2008-02-08 11:31:42]
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dl021
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:15 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
Hillary won in a state where she campaigned even though signing a pledge that she wouldn't campaign there.

Does this surprise anyone?

Quoting Pope (Reply 2):
I think you'll see absolute outrage if this happens. The DNC told candidates not to campaign in these states. Changing the rules after the fact is just not right. Plus the DNC loses all authority to regulate the process going forward. Every state in the country is going to shoot for an early primary next time around because there's no penalty for ignoring DNC instructions.

I would saythat the Clintons would do anything they thought necessary to win on the assumption that they could fix it all after they win. It's arrogant and wrong, and bad for their party, but there you have it.

Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 3):
Can't change the rules towards the end of the game.

Tell that the New Jersey Democrats. Or the Clinton Democra
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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:57 pm



Quoting D L X (Reply 1):
Hillary won in a state where she was the only one on the ballot, but lost to "none of the above

Please do your research, yes she was the only one on the ballot, but she didn't loose to "none of the above"

According to CNN: the Michigan Primary was as follows:

Clinton 328,151 55%
Uncommitted (Obama and Edwards) 237,762 40%

And if anyone thinks Obama didn't go under the radar to Florida to raise money at private events, your kidding yourselfs.

And Clinton did go to Florida, but it had absolutly no outcome in the election sice she went after the polls were closed.
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Mir
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:58 pm

Last I recall, when the DNC tried to push an establishment candidate over a newcomer at a convention, there were riots.

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aloha73g
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:35 am

I don't think the rules will be changed after the fact. The Obama people would (and should) go nuts if they do. If he had been campaigned in those states the results could have been quite different.

I thought that the Republicans "punishment" of stripping half the delegates was more....democratic.....but the rules were set and to change them in the situation the Democrats are in now would stink of smoke filled rooms and king making.

Now, if Hillary ends up with enough delegates to secure the nomination WITHOUT Michigan & Florida, I could see the party seating the delegates to keep the peace. If Obama is ahead or it is too close to call.....they'd be foolish to do it!

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srbmod
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:45 am



Quoting D L X (Reply 1):

Sounds to me like Hillary can't keep her promises.

A politician not keeping their promises?  faint 

Quoting Daedaeg (Reply 3):
You'll have people like Ted Kennedy having a hissy fit.

Just give him a bottle and a coed and that'll placate him........  duck 
 
NIKV69
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 12:52 am



Quoting Bmacleod (Thread starter):
If Hillary manages to get those delegates seated (150-200) it could be the end of Obama's campaign - or would it?

I have a feeling those delegates will count in the end. It may be effect the race for the Dem nom. May not. I still think Hillary will barely have enough but stranger things have happened.
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D L X
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 2:14 am



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 5):
And if anyone thinks Obama didn't go under the radar to Florida to raise money at private events, your kidding yourselfs.

Source!!!!!!!

If you're going to make an accusation like that, back your ish up.
 
aace24
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:27 pm



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 5):
And if anyone thinks Obama didn't go under the radar to Florida to raise money at private events, your kidding yourselfs.

Do you have any facts to back that up?

Or are you just stabbing in the dark on that one?
 
JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 3:55 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ron-le...idential-hopefuls-squ_b_84713.html

Quote:
On the Democratic side, fourth quarter reports from Florida showed Clinton with statewide donations of $1.3 million compared to Obama's take in the Sunshine State - $ 692,000. The Clinton total comes mainly from three South Florida counties -population centers from Miami to West Palm Beach.

4th Quarter of 07, long after they knew delegates wouldn't count. They might not have campaigned there, but they both still raised a ton of money. Which in a way is indirect campaigning. Everyone does it. They are not going to pass up a way to get money.
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Yellowstone
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:05 pm



Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 7):
Now, if Hillary ends up with enough delegates to secure the nomination WITHOUT Michigan & Florida, I could see the party seating the delegates to keep the peace.

I was talking with someone who shared much the same opinion. He figured that the DNC assumed that, as has almost always happened in the past, a clear front-runner would have emerged by the convention. If that were the case, then the Florida and Michigan delegates wouldn't matter one way or the other. Once one candidate had become the presumptive nominee and the others had conceded, all the candidates would call on the DNC to reseat the FL and MI delegations, the DNC would agree to do so, and everyone would go home happy.
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wingnut767
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:39 pm



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 12):
They might not have campaigned there

But you said

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 5):
And if anyone thinks Obama didn't go under the radar to Florida to raise money at private events, your kidding yourselfs.

and had been asked to

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 11):
Do you have any facts to back that up?

Since you did not you called it

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 12):
Which in a way is indirect campaigning.

which means that you are

Quoting AAce24 (Reply 11):
just stabbing in the dark on that one?

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JetBlueGuy2006
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:46 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 14):

What poeple wanted me to back up:

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 5):
And if anyone thinks Obama didn't go under the radar to Florida to raise money at private events, your kidding yourselfs.

and to that reponse:

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 12):

It proves they raised money in Flordia. Thats all the whole point was. Poeple attack Clinton and people attack Obama, my point was to me it seems like Obama gets a free pass on so many issues, such as raising money in Florida.

Just take a minute and take a deep breath, relax. I was not stabbing in the dark with the point I was originally trying to make. People asked me to prove both candidates raised money in Florida after the seating of delegates was in question and that is wjat I did.
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wingnut767
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RE: Michigan/Florida Delegates Count, Over For Obama?

Sat Feb 09, 2008 5:47 pm



Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 5):
And Clinton did go to Florida, but it had absolutly no outcome in the election sice she went after the polls were closed

And maybe you should do some research


She appeared here on Sunday before the tuesday election. That is not after the polls has closed. That is two days before they opened in case you could not read a calendar.


Hillary's Florida Flip

"The Clinton campaign claims that the senator from New York is abiding by the no-campaigning pledge because Sunday's two Florida events were technically closed to the public. But the stops were treated as major news events in a state where many Democrats have expressed anger over the absence of the party's presidential candidates during a period when Florida is overrun by Republican contenders.

The truth of the Clinton strategy was writ large in a memo from top strategist Howard Wolfson, who announced on the day of the campaign's dismal showing in South Carolina that, "Regardless of today's outcome, the race quickly shifts to Florida, where hundreds of thousands of Democrats will turn out to vote on Tuesday. Despite efforts by the Obama campaign to ignore Floridians, their voices will be heard loud and clear across the country, as the last state to vote before Super Tuesday on February 5."

"Efforts by the Obama campaign to ignore Floridians"?

Obama's just abiding by the pledge. Admittedly, it's a foolish pledge. None of the campaigns should have taken it, and they all should have agreed to drop it. But in the absence of such an agreement, Obama is not ignoring Floridians. He is remaining true to his word.

Of course, Obama is surging, while Clinton is desperate."

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=276341
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