mham001
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Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:42 am

Global Cooling comes back in a big way

Dr. Kenneth Tapping is worried about the sun. Solar activity comes in regular cycles, but the latest one is refusing to start. Sunspots have all but vanished, and activity is suspiciously quiet. The last time this happened was 400 years ago -- and it signaled a solar event known as a "Maunder Minimum," along with the start of what we now call the "Little Ice Age."

Tapping, a solar researcher and project director for Canada's National Research Council, says it may be happening again.

.......Observational data seems to support the claims -- or doesn't contradict it, at least. According to data from Britain's Met Office, the earth has cooled very slightly since 1998. The Met Office says global warming "will pick up again shortly." Others aren't so sure.


http://www.dailytech.com/Solar+Activ...t+Another+Ice+Age/article10630.htm
 
RJdxer
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:27 am

Better put on your abestos suit, the globe around your computer is about to warm considerably.  flamed 
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:13 am

so..............? what happened to global warming then?

Does this therefore prove that climate change is a result of sun cycles and not greenhouse gasses as previously thought? or is it time to fly more in order to stop the ice age?
 
AirTranTUS
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:05 am

Damn. Is science proving theories wrong again? Better change the science to make it fit.
I love ASO!
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:04 am

Out here in Mumbai its the coolest in 47 years.Quite weird around this time though to have such low temperatures.

regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
trekster
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:20 am

This time last year half the uk was covered in snow. Past 2 days here in London we have had warmish weather, very strange.
Where does the time go???
 
Klaus
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:24 am

By all means - stick to handpicked data points and totally avoid the conclusions scientists are drawing! Voluntary confusion is much move convenient for justifying complacency than actual analysis!  crazy 
 
LH526
Crew
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:07 pm

Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice ....

C'mon Guys!!!!!
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
B747forever
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:12 pm



Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
This time last year half the uk was covered in snow. Past 2 days here in London we have had warmish weather, very strange.

Agree, same here in Sweden.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
baroque
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:39 pm



Quoting B747forever (Reply 8):
Quoting Trekster (Reply 5):
This time last year half the uk was covered in snow. Past 2 days here in London we have had warmish weather, very strange.

Agree, same here in Sweden.

I think that the guy who designs the weather has decided to use early 2008 to demonstrate the difference between weather and climate. Good luck to him/her. Others have failed.
 
David L
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:35 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 9):
I think that the guy who designs the weather has decided to use early 2008 to demonstrate the difference between weather and climate.

Is this weather or climate...

Quoting Mham001 (Thread starter):
According to data from Britain's Met Office, the earth has cooled very slightly since 1998

?
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:45 pm

Hmmm, I need to go to Wal-Mart to buy new clothes. So does anyone know if it is getting hot before it gets cold? Or will it get cold before it gets hot?

I just want to know what to buy?

Quoting LH526 (Reply 7):
Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice .... Hot .... Ice ....

C'mon Guys!!!!!

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:51 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 6):
By all means - stick to handpicked data points and totally avoid the conclusions scientists are drawing!

instead shall we look at one report which says greenhouse gases are increasing, another which says global temperatures are increasing - then draw conclusions that the two must be linked?
 
Klaus
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:11 pm



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 12):
instead shall we look at one report which says greenhouse gases are increasing, another which says global temperatures are increasing - then draw conclusions that the two must be linked?

No. By themselves, two pieces of research are not enough to draw wide-ranging conclusions.

However when thousands of research results point consistently into the same direction with none or very few dissenting, that is an entirely different matter. And that is why the global community has decided to draw the consequences.
 
RobertNL070
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:16 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
to draw the consequences

 confused  Your otherwise excellent English has deserted you here.
Youth is a gift of nature. Age is a work of art.
 
Klaus
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:31 pm



Quoting RobertNL070 (Reply 14):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
to draw the consequences

Your otherwise excellent English has deserted you here.

Thank you... but where is the problem?

To clarify: The global community has decided to draw the necessary consequences from the current state of research.
 
David L
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:39 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
The global community has decided to draw the necessary consequences from the current state of research

I suspect you mean "conclusions", not "consequences". To me, "drawing the consequences" implies getting what you deserve. Yes, it's nit-picking - we know what you meant.  Smile
 
Rara
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:46 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):

Thank you... but where is the problem?

Appearantly, the German "Konsequenzen ziehen", meaning "to act accordingly", can't be translated word by word into "to draw consequences". The latter seems to translate more to "Konsequenzen auf sich ziehen".

Interesting, I wouldn't have noticed it otherwise.
Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
 
baroque
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:50 pm



Quoting David L (Reply 16):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 15):
The global community has decided to draw the necessary consequences from the current state of research

I suspect you mean "conclusions", not "consequences". To me, "drawing the consequences" implies getting what you deserve. Yes, it's nit-picking - we know what you meant.

Interestingly while it is indeed a nit pick and your explanation David is 100% correct, there is another nit pick in the opposite sense. If GW is indeed being affected by [CO2], if we do not attempt to reduce the increase in [CO2] then we will suffer consequences rather than conclusions.  Big grin
 
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nighthawk
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:53 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
However when thousands of research results point consistently into the same direction with none or very few dissenting, that is an entirely different matter. And that is why the global community has decided to draw the consequences.

theres no denying that global temperatures are increasing - theres no denying that greenhouse gasses are increasing. There is plenty of research to back this up. However there is NO proof that the two are linked. Its mearly speculation

Also bear in mind that the media likes to jump on "newsworthy" results - thousands of research papers could be written showing there will be no major changes in climate, and one single paper showing a drastic swing in global temperatures. Guess which one gets published and grabs everyones attention?
 
AverageUser
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:09 pm

Quoting Mham001 (Thread starter):
Dr. Kenneth Tapping is worried about the sun

I naturally searched what Dr. Kenneth Tapping might have said, where and in which context. Someone asked him directly, and it appears another someone has put words into his mouth:


The stuff on the web came from a casual chat with someone who managed to misunderstand what I said and then put the result on the web, which is probably a big caution for me regarding the future.

It is true that the beginning of the next solar cycle is late, but not so late that we are getting worried, merely curious.

It is the opinion of scientists, including me, that global warming is a major issue, and that it might be too late to do anything about it already. If there is a cooling due to the solar activity cycle laying off for a bit, then the a period of solar cooling could be a much-needed respite giving us more time to attack the problem of greenhouse gases, with the caveat that if we do not, things will be far worse when things turn on again after a few decades. However, once again it is early days and we cannot at the moment conclude there is another minimum started.

(...)

Please feel free to quote what I said. I think it is a real shame that we sometimes see the downside of the freedom of the web, and that an investment journal would quote reports like that without going to their source.



http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008...dont_trust_anything_you_read_i.php

Quoting Mham001 (Thread starter):
activity is suspiciously quiet

We have the first solar cycle 24 sunspot spotted in Dec 2007, so everyone can now relax and take it easy.

http://sidc.oma.be/news/101/welcome.html

The prediction for the coming years:


Dec. 21, 2006: Evidence is mounting: the next solar cycle is going to be a big one.

Solar cycle 24, due to peak in 2010 or 2011 "looks like its going to be one of the most intense cycles since record-keeping began almost 400 years ago," says solar physicist David Hathaway of the Marshall Space Flight Center. He and colleague Robert Wilson presented this conclusion last week at the American Geophysical Union meeting in San Francisco.






http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/21dec_cycle24.htm

[Edited 2008-02-10 08:36:31]
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:41 pm

If there was to be a complete lack of sunspots for many years then it is likely that the global temperatures would slip by a few degrees on average. This has happened before during an event called the 'Maunder Minimum' when only a handful of spots were recorded for decades. Normally though they operate on an 11 year cycle, so around about now we will be experiencing the minimum period so in five or six we should be back to the maximum again.
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
AverageUser
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:17 pm



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 21):
If there was to be a complete lack of sunspots for many years then it is likely that the global temperatures would slip by a few degrees on average.

Your scale is set badly wrong. "A change of a few degrees on average" is just a sort of disaster a fully-developed global warming would result in. There has been a minimum in the early 1800s that lasted for decades and did not result in such a dip.






Solar output during the Maunder Minimum was reduced approximately 0.25%, which is equivalent to a global temperature reduction of about ½°C; however, the actual temperature decline during the Little Ice Age was ½ to 1½°C (Nesje and Dahl 2000). This suggests that other factors, namely volcanism, were also at work to create cooler climatic conditions.

http://academic.emporia.edu/aberjame/ice/lec20/lec20.htm
 
AA777
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:23 pm

Well if this is true, maybe our emission of greenhouse gasses and heating of the atmosphere will be counteracted by less solar activity.... lol.

-AA777
 
AverageUser
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 5:33 pm



Quoting AA777 (Reply 23):
Well if this is true, maybe our emission of greenhouse gasses and heating of the atmosphere will be counteracted by less solar activity.... lol

Or amplified by more, which can't be excluded.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:27 pm

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 22):
Your scale is set badly wrong. "A change of a few degrees on average"

Not so much my scale as my wording - by that I mean one to two degrees, I should have phrased it better.  

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 22):
There has been a minimum in the early 1800s that lasted for decades and did not result in such a dip.

The Maunder Minimum to which I was referring took place from the mid 1600s to early 1700s, this was more severe and lasted much longer than the Dalton Minimum of the early 1800s to which you are referring there. I'm afraid I don't recall which journal I read this in, it was during some side research for a design project last Autumn, but it roughly mirrored your temperature decrease figures for the period in Europe, but suggested that changes to the North Atlantic Oscillation and Arctic Oscillation were more likely to have had a potential affect on the greater regional cooling at the time in some parts of the continent.

The exact relationship between a lack of sunspot activity, volcanic activity and, the little ice age is very much open to debate though. Yes you have several significant volcanic eruptions before this period of cooling and during it, but my uncertainties about the link are perhaps best documented by an eruption as it came to an 'end' (I say 'end' because the cool period has many different definitions as to it's duration) when Krakatua blew itself to bits in 1883. This eruption lowered the average global temperature by around 1 degree as a result of particles released into the atmosphere, but within five years they had returned to normal - so on that evidence how can volcanic activity can be attributed to any more than short 'pockets' of cooling around the major eruptions?


Dan  

[Edited 2008-02-10 11:02:56]
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
Klaus
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:58 pm



Quoting David L (Reply 16):
I suspect you mean "conclusions", not "consequences". To me, "drawing the consequences" implies getting what you deserve. Yes, it's nit-picking - we know what you meant.

No offense taken... I've read the phrase so frequently over the years - with never a correction in sight - that I've never questioned it. That's definitely the value of corrections - exterminating mistakes before they start breeding...

In german there is a clear distinction between drawing conclusions and (in german) drawing consequences - the former is merely the intellectual acknowledgment, the latter includes taking action as a result of those conclusions. How would you express that same conceptual difference?
 
AverageUser
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:03 pm



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 25):
Quoting AverageUser (Reply 22):
Your scale is set badly wrong. "A change of a few degrees on average"

Not so much my scale as my wording - by that I mean one to two degrees, I should have phrased it better.

No, it was your scale that was/is wrong not your wording. There's just no way our worldwide temperature can go up or down worth whole degrees in a matter of a few (sunspotless) years.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 25):
Krakatua blew itself to bits in 1883. This eruption lowered the average global temperature by around 1 degree as a result of particles into the atmosphere

The source I found says:

..Eruption large enough to produce wide-spread ash may be large enough to have climatic effects for 2 - 3 yrs
Examples:
Krakatau 1883, 0.5oC cooling

Few eruptions in 1930-40's or 1950-60's warm periods

El Chichon (1982, 7x104 m tons H2SO4) no cooling, coincided with El Niño
(Mass and Portman, 1989, Science 245:127)
Mt. Pinatubo (1991-92) 3 x 1011 g SO2 0.5 oC cooling


http://www.geo.arizona.edu/palynology/geos462/23climaros.html
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:32 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 27):
No, it was your scale that was/is wrong not your wording. There's just no way our worldwide temperature can go up or down worth whole degrees in a matter of a few (sunspotless) years.

Sorry to be pedantic here, but in my original sentence I said 'many' not 'few' and, it was in reference to another long term event occurring like the Maunder Minimum, during which a lack of sunspots have been cited (depending on which sources you believe) as a reason why global temperatures fell. I am not trying to suggest that within the 11 year minimum/maximum cycle temperatures can drastically change by several degrees.

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 27):
..Eruption large enough to produce wide-spread ash may be large enough to have climatic effects for 2 - 3 yrs
Examples:
Krakatau 1883, 0.5oC cooling

Different sources give different figures - they vary greatly, some even suggesting that a decrease of 2 degrees or more was experienced after said eruption, which in my view is incorrect. Still though, your source states that the climatic affects of Krakatua were only felt for 2-3 years after the event, so that bears even less weight on your suggestion that volcanic eruptions can be the most significant cause of the little ice age - if I'm remembering correctly there were no more than ten major eruptions during the entire questionable period, most smaller than the aforementioned.


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
AverageUser
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:41 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 26):
I've read the phrase so frequently over the years .. that I've never questioned it.

That's the very reason why such phrases are called "false friends", you tend to use them without noticing. Every learner will fall for them some time.
 
bagpiper
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:55 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 13):
No. By themselves, two pieces of research are not enough to draw wide-ranging conclusions.

However when thousands of research results point consistently into the same direction with none or very few dissenting, that is an entirely different matter. And that is why the global community has decided to draw the consequences.

So um... could you show where those *thousands* of research points for global warming are?

Thanks!
 
Klaus
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:00 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 29):
That's the very reason why such phrases are called "false friends", you tend to use them without noticing. Every learner will fall for them some time.

Indeed... and it's why corrections generally do more good than harm.

Expressions which are almost the same in different languages are the most dangerous ones. And apparently I just missed one of those.  cool 
 
Klaus
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:29 pm



Quoting Bagpiper (Reply 30):
So um... could you show where those *thousands* of research points for global warming are?

Simply check the climatology research of the past decades. There are numerous peer-reviewed publications dedicated to the field.
 
AverageUser
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:21 pm



Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 28):
Sorry to be pedantic here, but in my original sentence I said 'many' not 'few' and,

I'm sorry but you've just met your match in pedantry: your exact words were, to quote you from your post:

"If there was to be a complete lack of sunspots for many years then it is likely that the global temperatures would slip by a few degrees on average"

The problem with your sentence is the imprecision. "A few" in English is at least two degrees which is way too much given the historical evidence on sunspots we have. We can talk about a decade error.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 28):
Krakatua

It's traditionally written "Krakatau".
 
mham001
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:29 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 33):
"If there was to be a complete lack of sunspots for many years then it is likely that the global temperatures would slip by a few degrees on average"

The problem with your sentence is the imprecision. "A few" in English is at least two degrees which is way too much given the historical evidence on sunspots we have. We can talk about a decade error.

Speaking of pedantic, a few refers to 3 or more. 2 is often called a couple. Also, he does not say if he is referring to Celsius or Fahrenheit which might produce a couple if not a few different interpretations.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:46 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 33):
I'm sorry but you've just met your match in pedantry: your exact words were, to quote you from your post:

I no longer seem to understand what you are getting at?

I already explained to you what I meant by the first comment you highlighted and, that I should have phrased it differently to represent what I actually meant:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 25):
Quoting AverageUser (Reply 22):
Your scale is set badly wrong. "A change of a few degrees on average"

Not so much my scale as my wording - by that I mean one to two degrees, I should have phrased it better.

Then you say that I have suggested temperatures will change 'in a matter of a few sunbspotless years':

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 27):
No, it was your scale that was/is wrong not your wording. There's just no way our worldwide temperature can go up or down worth whole degrees in a matter of a few (sunspotless) years.

I know that as well as you do I am sure, because I didn't say that they could go up or down in a 'few sunspotless years':

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 21):
If there was to be a complete lack of sunspots for many years then it is likely that the global temperatures would slip by a few degrees on average.

Note it says many and in the context of my argument I was relating it to a similar event to the Maunder Minimum, not few and, I even clarified it here:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 28):
Sorry to be pedantic here, but in my original sentence I said 'many' not 'few' and, it was in reference to another long term event occurring like the Maunder Minimum, during which a lack of sunspots have been cited (depending on which sources you believe) as a reason why global temperatures fell. I am not trying to suggest that within the 11 year minimum/maximum cycle temperatures can drastically change by several degrees.

So, before you continue to berate me for my 'imprecision', please took at the context and read what I have (already) written first?


Dan Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:51 pm



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 34):
Also, he does not say if he is referring to Celsius or Fahrenheit which might produce a couple if not a few different interpretations.

Sorry, it is Celsius, I should have added that - in the UK just saying the temperature is 'xyz' degrees is associated with your meaning degrees Celsius, as that is the main scale used for measuring temperature and the one we see on our weather forecasts etc... so it is used the most.


Dan  Smile
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
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foppishbum
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:00 pm

Sounds like The Day After Tomorrow  Yeah sure
Taiwanese-American :D
 
Banco
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:10 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 33):
It's traditionally written "Krakatau".

If you are going to be pedantic, then in English it's traditionally written "Krakatoa" actually.  Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:39 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 38):
If you are going to be pedantic, then in English it's traditionally written "Krakatoa" actually.

I'm not going to say a thing - I was wrong on both accounts - but I freely admit that my spelling is poor  silly 
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
dc9northwest
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:44 pm



Quoting Banco (Reply 38):
in English it's traditionally written "Krakatoa" actually.

Yes. In Bahasa, it is Krakatau though  Wink
 
Banco
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:58 pm



Quoting Dc9northwest (Reply 40):
Yes. In Bahasa, it is Krakatau though

And if that was the language he was writing in on here....  Wink
She's as nervous as a very small nun at a penguin shoot.
 
baroque
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:59 am



Quoting Banco (Reply 38):
If you are going to be pedantic, then in English it's traditionally written "Krakatoa" actually.



Quoting Dc9northwest (Reply 40):
Yes. In Bahasa, it is Krakatau though

Well IF we are going to get really picky, in Bahasa Inggris, it is written Krakatoa and pronounced "owe ah"

However in Bahasa Indonesia, it is Krakatau, and pronounced "ow" as in "ow that hurts".

So while the nits are being picked, Bahasa means language, not Indonesian. And if Krakatau were to explode again, it would be Anak Krakatau, the child of Krakatoa that blows up.
 
AverageUser
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:28 pm



Quoting Mham001 (Reply 34):
Speaking of pedantic, a few refers to 3 or more

Not everyone agrees here, even on this relatively simple issue. I did not catch the specific "3" mentioned in any of my printed disctionaries.

a few(a): more than one but indefinitely small in number; "a few roses"; "a couple of roses" wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 35):
Note it says many and in the context of my argument I was relating it to a similar event to the Maunder Minimum, not few and, I even clarified it here:

Yes, but even during in your specified context of the Maunder minimum we did not reach a one degree deviation.
 
RJdxer
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:46 pm



Quoting Baroque (Reply 42):
So while the nits are being picked, Bahasa means language, not Indonesian. And if Krakatau were to explode again, it would be Anak Krakatau, the child of Krakatoa that blows up.

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl  Would that be "son" of Krakatoa?

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 43):
in any of my printed disctionaries.

Then perhaps you should check in one of your printed "dictionaries"
one-being a single unit or thing
couple-an indefinite small number
few-not many persons or things
source:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary.htm

Not much snow in Finland? Come on over to the midwest. Several areas are about to set all time records for snowfall this winter season. International Falls is somewhere around 10-20 below zero F this morning.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:33 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 44):
Not much snow in Finland? Come on over to the midwest. Several areas are about to set all time records for snowfall this winter season. International Falls is somewhere around 10-20 below zero F this morning.

Come on AverageUser, There are plenty of Scandanavians in the upper Midwest. You will feel right at home on the lakes up there.  Wink
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agill
Posts: 942
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RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:35 pm

All this pedantic stuff, is it to prove that you all are annoying people or what is the point?  duck 
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:59 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 44):
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary.htm

ok, thank you: here's from it:

"few", adjective, sense 2: at least some but indeterminately small in number —used with a

again, turning to "some" from the same source we have:

adjective, sense 2a being one, a part, or an unspecified number of something (as a class or group) named or implied b: being of an unspecified amount or number
sense 4. being at least one —used to indicate that a logical proposition is asserted only of a subclass or certain members of the class denoted by the term which it modifies

In all, we see "a few" is a vague small (whole) number, not a definite "3 or more" as some say.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 44):
Would that be "son" of Krakatoa

Online dictionaries say "anak" is "a child" as suggested above. Moreover, we know from Wikipedia: "A majority of Indonesian words that refer to people generally have a form that does not distinguish between the sexes. "
However, certain English and international naming conventions may have become established, even if they are not correct in the strict sense.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 44):
Not much snow in Finland?

Unfortunately not, we had some snowfall last week, in fact a small blizzard. Its melting away though, it's 3.6 degrees C (above freezing) and I can see several patches of ground in our back yard.

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 44):
Come on over to the midwest. Several areas are about to set all time records for snowfall this winter season.

No doubt fuelled by all that "unseasonally warm and humid" air that pushed its way northwards by the recent huge weather system. I think there was a thread alive just recently on this ... with some disturbing graphics on the recent sea ice development in and around the Arctic as well.

[Edited 2008-02-11 08:11:40]
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:44 pm



Quoting RJdxer (Reply 44):
Would that be "son" of Krakatoa?



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 47):
Online dictionaries say "anak" is "a child" as suggested above. Moreover, we know from Wikipedia: "A majority of Indonesian words that refer to people generally have a form that does not distinguish between the sexes. "
However, certain English and international naming conventions may have become established, even if they are not correct in the strict sense.

Correct AverageUser, anak is child and non specific for gender. Laki laki is a boy, and perempuan a girl. I am not sure about Finnish but I think you too do not have as many gender specific terms as English. In Indonesian toes are "foot fingers", I know that holds in Hungarian too, how about Finnish?

Moving from language to the Gunung Api (fire mountain) itself, it appears that while the effect of the dust lasted only a couple of years, the effect on the ocean may have lasted rather longer.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v439/n7077/full/439675a.html
"Volcanoes and climate: Krakatoa's signature persists in the ocean

P. J. Gleckler1, T. M. L. Wigley2, B. D. Santer1, J. M. Gregory3,4, K. AchutaRao1 & K. E. Taylor1
Top of page
Abstract

This huge eruption slowed sea-level rise and ocean warming well into the following century.
Top of page
Abstract

We have analysed a suite of 12 state-of-the-art climate models and show that ocean warming and sea-level rise in the twentieth century were substantially reduced by the colossal eruption in 1883 of the volcano Krakatoa in the Sunda strait, Indonesia. Volcanically induced cooling of the ocean surface penetrated into deeper layers, where it persisted for decades after the event. This remarkable effect on oceanic thermal structure is longer lasting than has previously been suspected1 and is sufficient to offset a large fraction of ocean warming and sea-level rise caused by anthropogenic influences."

See also
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7064/abs/nature04237.html

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RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Scientists Predicting Another Ice Age

Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:26 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 47):
Online dictionaries say "anak" is "a child" as suggested above.



Quoting Baroque (Reply 48):
Correct AverageUser, anak is child and non specific for gender.

 scratchchin  Some people have no sense of humor. As in Son of Kong, or Son of Frankenstien......

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 47):
In all, we see "a few" is a vague small (whole) number, not a definite "3 or more" as some say.

I see you left one and couple out of the mix. I don't know how it is in England or Australia, but here, if you say a "couple" you mean two. If you say "a few" the perception will be that there was more than one or two. If you say "many", the perception will be that there were more than a few, and a lot more than one or two.
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