DLPMMM
Topic Author
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:25 pm

Once again, it looks like the Democrat Party has found a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

In a year that the Democrat Party should have been able to win the White House with ease, they have instead managed to pick a sure loser.

I am basing this on analysis of every election since WWII.

If we look at the candidates run by the Democrat Party since WWII, they fall into 2 distinct categories.

Successful canditdates:

Truman
Kennedy
Johnson
Carter
Clinton

Unsuccessful Candidates:

Stevenson
Humphrey
McGovern
Mondale
Dukakis
Gore
Kerry

Do you notice the pattern?

The successful candidates were all from the (relatively) conservative wing of the Democrat Party.

The unsuccessful candidates were all from the liberal wing of the Democrat Party (perhaps with the exception of Gore, but with his "green" stance it is arguable, and he was certainly painted as a liberal in the election. It was also the closest of margins, and as such supports the hypothesis).

For those too young to remember, Kennedy was a fiscal conservative and military hawk, enacting tax cuts and actively persuing the Vietnam campagne. He would almost be a moderate Republican by todays standards.

Now it looks like the Democrat Party will nominate the US Senator with the most liberal voting record during the last term.

If history is any sort of an indicator, McCain will win walking away.
 
ANCFlyer
Posts: 21391
Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:36 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
they have instead managed to pick a sure loser.

Primaries aren't over yet . . . .

Besides, I don't think Sen Obama is a loser. I despise his ideals about the military- they are simply backward - but on the whole, he's a far better candidate than the Scheister Lawyer . . .

Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
McCain will win walking away.

We can only hope.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:39 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
Johnson

Was the most liberal on social issues that I have ever seen, and also was a military hawk from Texas, guess that's a requirement guess that's a requirement if one is from the Lone Star state. You're probably too young to remember the mushroom cloud ad he used against Goldwater.
Kennedy was also a liberal on social issues and he used his brother Robert as the enforcer.

Al Gore, was a fiscal conservative, pro-military, and in the center on social issues. What he lacked was the ability to speak in a manner that made people enthusiastic about his campaign.

Now this might be the same problem that Senator McCain will face this year if the opposing candidate is Obama. McCain is a dull speaker, while so far Obama is very charismatic. (please note I'm not talking issues here)

Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
f history is any sort of an indicator, McCain will win walking away.

If recent history is any sort of an indicator, if the election was held today, no one would win walking away.
 
DLPMMM
Topic Author
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:40 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Besides, I don't think Sen Obama is a loser. I despise his ideals about the military- they are simply backward - but on the whole, he's a far better candidate than the Scheister Lawyer . .

I meant loser not as a personal affront.

I meant it as he is sure to lose in the general election because of his liberal views.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:46 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 3):
I meant loser not as a personal affront.

I meant it as he is sure to lose in the general election because of his liberal views.

I knew what you mean..but if you look at history, could be the United States, Great Britain, France, Germany, voters every so often just get tired of the same government philosophy and just vote for change for the sake of change. Carter and the huge increase in Democrats elected to Congress in 1976 (although Watergate had something to do with it) and the 1994 election which saw the Republicans take control of Congress are prime examples.
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 795
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:50 pm

I think you are wrong.

That is all.

okthxbye

[Edited 2008-02-14 08:55:41]
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:51 pm

Nice try Rush. Is the oxycontin wearing out?

But seriously, it's to early but the trends are going the Democrats way.


Enthusiasm scale tips to Dems

•Fewer Americans are calling themselves Republicans. In Gallup polls this year, 52% described themselves as Democrats or independents who "lean" Democratic, compared with 39% on the Republican side. That 13-point advantage is one of the widest for either party since Gallup began taking the measure in 1991.

•Among those who are Republicans, morale is low. Eight in 10 Democrats said in a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll last weekend that they're more enthusiastic about voting this year than in previous elections, the highest percentage in either party since the question first was asked in 2000. Nearly half of Republicans said they were less enthusiastic than usual — also the highest percentage ever.

•The Democratic Party gets higher marks all around. A majority of respondents described the Democratic Party as able to bring about changes the country needs andanage [sic] the federal government effectively. A majority said the GOP was unable to do either.


http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...008/2008-02-13-enthusiasmgap_N.htm

[Edited 2008-02-14 08:52:48]
Ain't I a stinker?
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:51 pm

I thnk you're dead wrong on this one. Obama is liberal, but this is a year that people want a different direction. I think many people will see McCain as too much of a Bush clone, whether he is or not-and the Democrats will paint him as such-and that Barack Obama has a terifically good chance of winning, as it stands right now.

Having a unpopluar President in your party is seen as far worse as an unpopular Congress. The focus, fair or not, is usually on the Chief Executive, not the legislature. I am not saying Obama will win, but he has a very good chance to win.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
DLPMMM
Topic Author
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 4:58 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
Was the most liberal on social issues that I have ever seen, and also was a military hawk from Texas, guess that's a requirement guess that's a requirement if one is from the Lone Star state. You're probably too young to remember the mushroom cloud ad he used against Goldwater.

Johnson was definately more conservative overall than most of his northeastern democrat colleges. The mushroom Cloud ad against Goldwater was simply to paint barry as an out-of-the-mainstream arch conservative.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
Al Gore, was a fiscal conservative, pro-military, and in the center on social issues. What he lacked was the ability to speak in a manner that made people enthusiastic about his campaign.

I already addressed the Al Gore circumstances here:

Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
(perhaps with the exception of Gore, but with his "green" stance it is arguable, and he was certainly painted as a liberal in the election. It was also the closest of margins, and as such supports the hypothesis).



Quoting AirCop (Reply 4):
I knew what you mean

My statement here was directed at ANCFlyer.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 4):
..but if you look at history, could be the United States, Great Britain, France, Germany, voters every so often just get tired of the same government philosophy and just vote for change for the sake of change. Carter and the huge increase in Democrats elected to Congress in 1976 (although Watergate had something to do with it) and the 1994 election which saw the Republicans take control of Congress are prime examples.

You can make individual excuses for each individual election, but the overall pattern looks very solid.

Carter was from the conservative wing of the Democrat Party.

I don't know why you are bringing up off-year congressional elections into the thread, is it is completely off topic.
 
DLPMMM
Topic Author
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:06 pm



Quoting Roadrunner165 (Reply 5):
I think you are wrong.

That is all.

okthxbye

Thank you for your riveting analysis.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 6):
Nice try Rush. Is the oxycontin wearing out?

But seriously, it's to early but the trends are going the Democrats way.

I don't know why you have to resort to name calling. Very immature of you.

Those same articles you cited could easily have been published 4 years ago, and we saw how that turned out.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
I thnk you're dead wrong on this one. Obama is liberal, but this is a year that people want a different direction. I think many people will see McCain as too much of a Bush clone, whether he is or not-and the Democrats will paint him as such-and that Barack Obama has a terifically good chance of winning, as it stands right now.

Having a unpopluar President in your party is seen as far worse as an unpopular Congress. The focus, fair or not, is usually on the Chief Executive, not the legislature. I am not saying Obama will win, but he has a very good chance to win.

Fair enough.

Are you saying that my hypothesis is wrong WRT all the elections since WWII, or that this election will be different for the reasons you stated?
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:11 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

We can only hope.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:11 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
Having a unpopluar President in your party is seen as far worse as an unpopular Congress.

Not having really good candidates running helps also. Frankly, the GOP candidates are just not 'inspiring' enough. They seem to be a tad dull, especially as compared to Obama.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
I am not saying Obama will win, but he has a very good chance to win.

I think he does. Out of presidential candidates, even going back to the little history I know, he compares to very few prior candidates and would be completely out of the typical US president. This may be good for the country in the long-term. And if he doesn't do well, it is only four years.
 
rfields5421
Posts: 5708
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:45 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:13 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
McCain will win walking away.

I seriously doubt anyone is going to win by a big margin.

McCain will have a victory is Hillary is the Democrat.

It will be very close if Obama is the candidate.
 
PPVRA
Posts: 7878
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 7:48 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:17 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
Kennedy was a fiscal conservative

Fiscal responsibility isn't left or right, it's good sense.
"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:33 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
For those too young to remember, Kennedy was a fiscal conservative and military hawk,

Per your profile that you be you..This year will be 45 years since Kennedy was killed.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 8):
I don't know why you are bringing up off-year congressional elections into the thread, is it is completely off topic.

I don't agree, Carter was elected because people wanted a change from the Nixon years, not because he was an excellent candidate, by the way 1976 was a presidental election year.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 8):
Johnson was definately more conservative overall than most of his northeastern democrat colleges.

I wouldn't go that far, remember he got the Tonkin Bay Resolution passed in the House by 414-0 and the Senate 88-2, and he had to twist alot arms to get his civil rights acts passed.

Check this out; Tell me in 45 years has anything change, notes written by Rep. Morris Udall of the 88th Congress.
http://www.library.arizona.edu/exhib...ts/udall/congrept/88th/640207.html
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:36 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 9):
e you saying that my hypothesis is wrong WRT all the elections since WWII, or that this election will be different for the reasons you stated?

On this election. This whole election cycle has been different-no true, clear front-runner from either party; no sitting VP running; a once popular president who is now very unpopular. It's a recipe for something we haven't seen before.

I think one thing that is working in Obama's favor is that the American people are tired of being scared by this president and his party over terrorism. It doesn't mean they're not concerned about it, but they're a bit weary of the last 7 years, since the events of 9/11. They want a new, fresh direction, and that's something neither Mr. McCain nor Mrs. Clinton seems to offer the voters.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:44 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 9):
I don't know why you have to resort to name calling. Very immature of you.

I thought you were Rush when you wrote "Democrat Party". My apologies to you Sean and I hope your grieving over Rudy's defeat is over.

Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 9):
Those same articles you cited could easily have been published 4 years ago, and we saw how that turned out.

Four years ago there was support for the war, Katrina was just a person's name and various scandals hadn't come to light.

The Republicans did the right thing politically when they chose a centrist. He's got the best chance to win.
Ain't I a stinker?
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 5:48 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
They want a new, fresh direction, and that's something neither Mr. McCain nor Mrs. Clinton seems to offer the voters.

That, I think, is the only reason Obama has a good chance of winning. McCain does NOT represent change, he's been in politics for too long. My belief is that the Democratic party is very happy that McCain is the GOP front-runner. While he appears to be a good candidate, he certainly has big skeletons in his closet. Anyone remember the 'Keating-5'?

Plus google 'McCain Temper'. There are plenty of stories out there about his 'volcanic' temper. One example:

"In fact, McCain reportedly has a long history of outbursts and confrontations with his Senate colleagues."

If he loses his temper just once in any debate, he'll be done for.

McCain, IMHO, has very little chance of winning unless he runs against Hillary.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
They want a new, fresh direction

That can only be represented by Obama.
 
DLPMMM
Topic Author
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:18 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
On this election. This whole election cycle has been different-no true, clear front-runner from either party; no sitting VP running; a once popular president who is now very unpopular. It's a recipe for something we haven't seen before.

So you are saying that my hypothesis holds true for past elections, but you think this election will be different for the reasons you stated.

Quoting Confuscius (Reply 16):
I thought you were Rush when you wrote "Democrat Party". My apologies to you Sean and I hope your grieving over Rudy's defeat is over.

More name calling to exemplify your lack of maturity and cogent thought process. I don't know why some people cannot have an intelligent conversation about politics without resorting to snide remarks about other posters.

Quoting AirCop (Reply 14):
I don't agree, Carter was elected because people wanted a change from the Nixon years, not because he was an excellent candidate, by the way 1976 was a presidential election year.

Are you saying that Carter was not a relative conservative Democrat?

And the off-year elections comment was in response to your 1994 congressional elections remark. The 1994 congressional elections were off topic as they had nothing to do with Democrats who were elected or defeated in Presidential campaigns.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 17):
That, I think, is the only reason Obama has a good chance of winning.



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
I think one thing that is working in Obama's favor



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 11):
I think he does.

We can all think this election will go this way and that way, but if history is a barometer or unless my hypothesis is wrong, then the Democrat Party has chosen the wrong candidate in Obama.
 
dc10s2hnl
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:21 pm

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:21 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
This whole election cycle has been different-no true, clear front-runner from either party; no sitting VP running; a once popular president who is now very unpopular. It's a recipe for something we haven't seen before.

That's precisely why we can't be accurate with making predictions based on previous election results. Anyone that claims to know exactly what-the-hell is going to happen is just wishing out loud. Hillary is not yet completely dead (Florida and Michigan shenanigans anyone?), Obama hasn't got it completely wrapped up. Maybe even Huckabee will end up getting his "divine intervention" he talks about!  duck 
All I know is the Dems better get their crap settled soon -- the longer they duke it out, the less resources they have against McCain!
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:27 pm



Quoting Dc10s2hnl (Reply 19):
All I know is the Dems better get their crap settled soon -- the longer they duke it out, the less resources they have against McCain!

History was shown in the general election the candidate that can effectively deliver the message of hope for the future, doesn't lose, some examples, FDR, Reagan, Clinton..so if becomes Obama vs. McCain, its McCain who might not have the resources.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:30 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 18):
but if history is a barometer or unless my hypothesis is wrong, then the Democrat Party has chosen the wrong candidate in Obama

Applicable IMHO if McCain was a better candidate. I still believe that McCain will be easily savaged by the Democratic party once the candidates are known.
 
DLPMMM
Topic Author
Posts: 2137
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2005 12:34 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 6:55 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 20):
History was shown in the general election the candidate that can effectively deliver the message of hope for the future, doesn't lose, some examples, FDR, Reagan, Clinton..so if becomes Obama vs. McCain, its McCain who might not have the resources.

Gore was undoubtedly a better speaker than GW Bush and lost. Dewey was a much better orator than Truman. Stevenson was more charasmatic than Ike (in fact, a patch of moss was more charasmatic than Ike).
 
NIKV69
Posts: 10908
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:28 pm



Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Primaries aren't over yet . . . .

No but the DNC convention is going to be awesome.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
Besides, I don't think Sen Obama is a loser. I despise his ideals about the military- they are simply backward - but on the whole, he's a far better candidate than the Scheister Lawyer . .

Personally Hillary is not as trustworthy but their ideals are kind of similiar. If you ingore their rhetoric they are anti capitilism and want governement to start controlling everything. Not to mention going very weak on our fight in the middle east.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 1):
We can only hope

I think we will see McCain win a hard fought election by about the same margin as GW won in 04'.

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 7):
I thnk you're dead wrong on this one. Obama is liberal, but this is a year that people want a different direction. I think many people will see McCain as too much of a Bush clone, whether he is or not-and the Democrats will paint him as such-and that Barack Obama has a terifically good chance of winning, as it stands right now.

But how can he be a Bush clone? All I hear is how far from the right he is and how he is not a conservative. Look, Obama using this "we need a new direction" is simply rhetoric and is just codepink yelling to get out of Iraq. Just because McCain isn't going to cut and run doesn't make him another GW. That is propaganda. The two biggest issues are the war and the economy. The currrent situation the economy is in is not the governments fault. It is OUR fault. GW didn't drive up our credit cards and not pay, GW didn't sell houses to people who had no chance of paying for them and Obama's ideas of giving the lower middle and lower class free education and free health care at the expense everyone with jacking up taxes is the worst idea I have ever heard. He is merley trying to get the knee jerk reaction that Kerry tried in 04'

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
They want a new, fresh direction, and that's something neither Mr. McCain nor Mrs. Clinton seems to offer the voters.

What exactly is that direction because I still haven't heard anything from him about that. All he has done is pander to the anti war left and said he is going to give them free everything without exactly saying where the money is going to come from. Oh wait he did last night, he is going to go after the big busines CEOs that in his opinion "make too much". This guy is downright scary. If his direction is paying the taxes Canada does, more government and less military it sure is a direction I don't want.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 17):
That, I think, is the only reason Obama has a good chance of winning. McCain does NOT represent change, he's been in politics for too long. My belief is that the Democratic party is very happy that McCain is the GOP front-runner. While he appears to be a good candidate, he certainly has big skeletons in his closet. Anyone remember the 'Keating-5'?

Plus google 'McCain Temper'. There are plenty of stories out there about his 'volcanic' temper. One example:

"In fact, McCain reportedly has a long history of outbursts and confrontations with his Senate colleagues."

If he loses his temper just once in any debate, he'll be done for.

I guess Bobby Knight should not be remembered as one of the best basketball coaches then? Maybe he should have been done after he threw the chair then? Give me a break, I could care less if a person loses his temper, your telling me Obama has never lost his temper in his life? I want a leader who is going to get the job done. I think if you go watch C-span or scrutinized every senator or congressman and every bill you will see people losing their tempers more often than you would think. This is just a ploy to discredit McCain now because he is the GOP Presidential candidate.
Hey that guy with the private jet can bail us out! Why? HE CAN AFFORD IT!
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:54 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
I guess Bobby Knight should not be remembered as one of the best basketball coaches then?

Diplomacy is not a requirement to being a good coach.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
I want a leader who is going to get the job done.

Screaming at others may not be conducive to getting the job done. Then again, a government that does nothing is usually better than a government that tries to do anything.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
I think if you go watch C-span or scrutinized every senator or congressman and every bill you will see people losing their tempers more often than you would think.

We all lose our tempers, but not all have a reputation as a 'hot-head'. Clinton was very well known and video exists of him losing his temper. But no one ever gave him grief about it. If McCain already has that reputation, from members of his own party, it bodes ill for his future.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:24 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 7:59 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
Al Gore, was a fiscal conservative, pro-military, and in the center on social issues. What he lacked was the ability to speak in a manner that made people enthusiastic about his campaign

 rotfl  What you meant was "Al Gore never mastered the ability to speak in public without coming across as a pompous, arrogant know it all," right?
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3185
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:08 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:01 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 17):
Plus google 'McCain Temper'. There are plenty of stories out there about his 'volcanic' temper. One example:

"In fact, McCain reportedly has a long history of outbursts and confrontations with his Senate colleagues."

If he loses his temper just once in any debate, he'll be done for.

Or it'll be the best thing that's happened to him.

Shows he's not the guy to pander, to pussy-foot around.


Hope is great, but it doesn't guarantee decisiveness.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:09 pm



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 26):
Hope is great, but it doesn't guarantee decisiveness.

Decisiveness is only a good thing if you know how to make the right decisions.

Otherwise even GWB might actually have been a great president.
 
Pope
Posts: 3995
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 5:57 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:16 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
Al Gore, was a fiscal conservative, pro-military, and in the center on social issues.

And he invented the internet! He also has a Grammy and an Oscar.  Wink
Hypocrisy. It's the new black for liberals.
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:19 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 15):
They want a new, fresh direction, and that's something neither Mr. McCain nor Mrs. Clinton seems to offer the voters.

Which begs the question.....

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
What exactly is that direction because I still haven't heard anything from him about that.

Perhaps when he is forced to actually come up with some hard answers to some difficult questions the public will realize that he is a very good orator, but not much else. If the democratic party really wants to go down in flames, all they have to do is nominate Sen. Clinton.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Joni
Posts: 2613
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 11:05 pm

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:33 pm

It would be "interesting" in the wrong way, IMO, if the Democrats lost this election as it would signal that democracy in the US would no longer work. It's not normal for a party to sh*t the country and nonetheless win the next election!
 
KFLLCFII
Posts: 3185
Joined: Sat Sep 11, 2004 7:08 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:45 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 27):
Decisiveness is only a good thing if you know how to make the right decisions.

Indeed. But what good is hope without decisiveness? (Or worse, with pandering or pussy-footing?)

Quoting Joni (Reply 30):
It would be "interesting" in the wrong way, IMO, if the Democrats lost this election as it would signal that democracy in the US would no longer work.

Why, because the people would have decided who they wanted their elected leader to be?

(Cue the "But the people didn't decide the 2000 election!!" crowd.)  duck 
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
Confuscius
Posts: 3568
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:29 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 8:45 pm

Quoting RJdxer (Reply 29):
It's not normal for a party to sh*t the country and nonetheless win the next election!

Welcome to Mexico. That's what happened to Mexico for a long time up until the 90s.

From a party standpoint, the Democrats will retain control of the Congress. They'll most likely pick up additional seats on both chambers.

[Edited 2008-02-14 12:55:31]
Ain't I a stinker?
 
Klaus
Posts: 20649
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:09 pm



Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 31):
Indeed. But what good is hope without decisiveness? (Or worse, with pandering or pussy-footing?)

The slogans on their own are not worth a lot (if anything).

I found the one-on-one grilling of the various candidates on Meet the Press much more interesting. And Obama was definitely the candidate who presented the most intelligent and the least standardized arguments of those I watched. Much less timidly dependent on pre-vetted populist nonsense and apparently much more interested in actual solutions, even possibly difficult or unpopular ones.

The blatant pandering to clearly noticeable focus groups was what put me off the most with the other guys (and girl). And at least from my point of view the USA could use a lot less of that.

Obama made the impression of somebody who first thinks about a solution and only then looks for a way to sell it to the public, not the other way around as we've seen so often.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:23 pm



Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):
Once again, it looks like the Democrat Party has found a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

If the American people are paying attention, they might notice how infantile the Dems in Congress are acting, and must start to wonder how they will act if they get control of the White House as well.

I've seen plenty of political posturing and BS in my day, but generally speaking, once the cameras go away, Republicans and Democrats usually get down to business and talk about the issues that matter.

In 2 days, the FISA law expires, and the Dems are screwing around on meaningless drivel. Excuse me, I'll revise and correct. Nancy Pelosi is instructing her Democratic collegues to screw around on meaningless drivel.

Remember this was an issue Bush spoke about during the SOTU address last month, and apparently nothing has been done.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080214/...on_go_pr_wh/terrorist_surveillance

Quote:
From the White House, Bush argued that the House has plenty of time to pass a bill before the current Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act expires at midnight Saturday. The president plans to leave on a five-nation trip to Africa on Friday afternoon, but said he'd delay his departure and stay in Washington "if it will help them complete their work on this critical bill."

On Capitol Hill, angry House Republicans stormed out of the House chamber to boycott a vote to hold two presidential confidants in contempt for failing to cooperate with an inquiry into whether federal prosecutors were ousted for political reasons.

The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:57 pm

Obama is basically a shinier, more attractive version of former far-left Democrat presidential candidate Walter Mondale. I'll give Mondale some credit though, he was vastly more experienced than Obama is when he ran for office. Obama is the most liberal candidate of the Senate by voting record, beating out Teddy Kennedy and Diane Feinstein. He has the cult of personality going, but his leftist ideas are not only costly, but poorly thought out.

I'm not a fan of McCain by any stretch of the imagination, but Republicans should be licking their chops right now. Whether Falcon84 likes it or not, this could be a bloodbath.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:05 pm



Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
I think we will see McCain win a hard fought election by about the same margin as GW won in 04'.

My prediction is that the electoral map will look pretty similar to how it did in 2004, with the deciding state being Ohio. So who is the next President could rest on how the economy on Ohio looks and what the people of Ohio are looking for. Just my opinion, but Ohio was the only true swing state which could have gone the other way and completely chaged the election. Nevada, New Mexico, New Hampshire, and Iowa while also close swing states, did not individually have the electoral power to swing the election the other way.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 23):
I guess Bobby Knight should not be remembered as one of the best basketball coaches then?

While I'm not saying I disagree with you overall, there is a difference between yelling at those under you and yelling at fellow colleagues.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:08 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 34):
In 2 days, the FISA law expires,

Who cares, all Bush wants out of this bill, is protection for the Telecoms. Bush keeps saying that America will come under harm due to Congress failure to pass the bill, if he is so for the welfare of the American people he could have signed a bill months ago, but apparently he is more concern about protection of the telecoms.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:42 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 37):
Who cares, all Bush wants out of this bill, is protection for the Telecoms. Bush keeps saying that America will come under harm due to Congress failure to pass the bill, if he is so for the welfare of the American people he could have signed a bill months ago, but apparently he is more concern about protection of the telecoms.

And allow the telecoms to become the sacrificial goats to the altar of our litigious society? Just imagine of some Ninth Circuit court rules that AT&T, due to a class action lawsuit brought by an enterprising young lawyer on behalf of OBL and various thugs, owes the defendants $10 billion. That's what they are trying to avoid, but apparently you don't mind. If you want to screw up our country so much why don't you just join AQ in Iraq and be done with it? And take the lawyer too.

The telecoms have a very valid need for protection, and the only reason the Dems are putting up a fight is to show their more left-leaning supporters that they will always go for the big evil corporation's jugular (never mind the jobs and taxes the big evil corporation generates.)
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
User avatar
jetjack74
Posts: 6606
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Thu Feb 14, 2008 11:21 pm

Since WA state doesn't make us define our party, I voted for Barack Obama in the WA state primary because Mitt Romney is out and McCain is going to win the Republican nomination any way. I think Obama is definately beatable. I think when it comes down to election time, and people have to choose between someone who has been in gov't since 1982 or someone who been in federal gov't less than his 1st term, I think they'll go with McCain. Obama is so popular becuase he does come across as likeable guy to anyone, and that's his allure. He's totally feeding upon it. But when and if he gets the nomination and this comes down to a 1 on 1(of what I hope will be a 1 on 1), then people will begin to see his lack of experience and his liberal agenda. People just have to look at Hillary's website to see what Obama has planned for his administration. It's almost the same thing. He's not going to say much else about his plan until he secures the nomination, but will rely on momentum from the previous states to carry him into the next states primary.
Made from jets!
 
allstarflyer
Posts: 3264
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 7:32 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:06 am



Quoting DLPMMM (Reply 22):
Gore was undoubtedly a better speaker than GW Bush and lost. Dewey was a much better orator than Truman. Stevenson was more charasmatic than Ike (in fact, a patch of moss was more charasmatic than Ike).

And Nixon had a lot going for him until he stepped in front of a camera while running against Kennedy. Being polished and looking sharp can go a good way in swaying votes - if you look good, people think you care. Nixon looked like a scrub and Gore wasn't poster-boy material compared to Dubya. Obama's a clean-looking guy which is propelled further by his attitude. If Obama can keep soaring like this, the Dems have a good shot. McCain is more of the same, for the most part, from the GOP side. Currently, I feel like whoever wins the Dem nomination will win the White House - a lot of conservative voters simply think McCain stinks. A lot of them will either not vote or will vote for a 3rd party candidate - which should be happening across the board, in my opinion - that way we'd have a lot fewer voters voting for the Dem or GOP candidate just because they hate the other one and more voters just voting for a candidate they actually like.
Living the American Dream
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:53 am



Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 40):
And Nixon had a lot going for him until he stepped in front of a camera while running against Kennedy

Those who saw (first ever televised debate) them gave Kennedy the edge. Those who heard them on the radio gave Nixon the win.

Quoting Allstarflyer (Reply 40):
Obama's a clean-looking guy which is propelled further by his attitude. If Obama can keep soaring like this, the Dems have a good shot.

Let's not forget how important, regardless of politics, it is for a president to be able to communicate well. GWB still gets slammed for being a poor communicator. Many ex-presidents are still remembered due to their oratory skills. Lincoln, FDR, Reagan have speeches which are STILL remembered today. Clinton is remembered for the same ability. A great speech can go down in history, as 'I have a dream' by MLK did. In this ability, Obama is by far the best of all of them.
 
NAV20
Posts: 8453
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2003 3:25 pm

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:05 am



Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):

Truman
Kennedy
Johnson
Carter
Clinton

DLPMMM, fair to say that two out of your five examples, Truman and Johnson, were effectively running for re-election after quite long, competent spells as the actual President. Made a big difference.

That leaves three guys who all, in their different ways, excelled 'on the stump.' Kennedy and Clinton are givens, but one shouldn't ignore Carter's highly-effective promotion of himself as an 'ordinary homespun guy' (which he certainly wasn't) - "Mah name's Jimmy Carter, Ah'm runnin' for President."

My own view (mostly instinctive, I must admit) is that, ever since Lincoln or maybe before, Americans have always expected a fair measure of inspiring oratory and rhetoric from their candidates, besides mere 'policies and programmes.' 'Communication' in the true, oldest form - the spoken word. That's hardly less important in this age of 24-hour TV coverage.

Kennedy, Clinton, and Carter all excelled in that area in their different ways. Obama may not be in the same class (so far) but he comes over as a far better communicator than Hillary. Indeed, my own feeling is that Hillary is the least skilled performer I've ever seen at this level - at best she comes over to me like a student who has just had a cram course in public speaking, at her worst she looks like a cardboard cutout.

To me it seems, therefore, that Obama has quite a good chance in the actual election campaign; whereas Hillary has virtually no chance, because she lacks the 'basic equipment.'
"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
 
RJdxer
Posts: 3523
Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:14 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:21 am



Quoting Klaus (Reply 33):
And Obama was definitely the candidate who presented the most intelligent and the least standardized arguments of those I watched.

I sure would like to know which program you watched. I heard a whole lot of pie in the sky without anything substantial to back it up. We're going to get national health care for those that can't afford private insurance, but how is he going to pay for it? No answer there. Just one example among many complex problems. Perhaps it's why his stump speeches contain so many references to "hope".

Quoting Klaus (Reply 33):
Obama made the impression of somebody who first thinks about a solution and only then looks for a way to sell it to the public, not the other way around as we've seen so often.

Please, he is an A+ orator, nothing else. Governor Carter was the same in 1976. By 1981 people realized just what a good orator will get you.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 34):
If the American people are paying attention, they might notice how infantile the Dems in Congress are acting, and must start to wonder how they will act if they get control of the White House as well.

The willing press have done a good job at hiding what a failure this Congress has been. Compared to Tip O'Neil and Senator Mitchell, Speaker Pelosi and Senator Reid are rank amateurs at running Congress.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 41):
Those who saw (first ever televised debate) them gave Kennedy the edge. Those who heard them on the radio gave Nixon the win.

Yep, the Kennedy clan snowballed old Tricky Dick. Told him no make up would be used and then lathered up JFK to hide his pale complexion.
Warm winds blowing, heating blue skies, and a road that goes forever. I'm going to Texas!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:01 am



Quoting JCS17 (Reply 35):
I'm not a fan of McCain by any stretch of the imagination, but Republicans should be licking their chops right now. Whether Falcon84 likes it or not, this could be a bloodbath.

Talk about someone living in an delusion, you take the cake, JCS. It won't be a bloodbath if McCain wins. It'll be very close. If Obama stays on his roll, he could win convincingly. I think the GOP has put themselves in a precarious position, with a pro-war nominee, at a time when the country is very weary of the conflict in Iraq, and also a nominee who has many of the same views and policy stances as the current, very unpopular President.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
CaptOveur
Posts: 6064
Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 3:13 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:01 am

And so the political pissing contest threads begin.

My election prediction:

Someone will win, I give Obama better odds than Hillary as coming out the Candidate. Between McCain and Obama.. It will be close. I am expecting low voter turnout. I am usually pretty excited about an election but given the choices this time around I am even feeling a pretty bad case of apathy and I am sure I am not alone.

If by some miracle Hillary comes out as the candidate she will do something to sour the parts of the country that don't already hate her. This will just leave her with the "well, she isn't Bush or McCain" votes.
Things were better when it was two guys in a dorm room.
 
Elite
Posts: 2296
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 8:08 am

Millions are dead set against Hilary Clinton already, and if she gets a nomination people might vote McCain not because they like him but because they don't want to see Clinton in office.

Quoting DLPMMM (Thread starter):

If history is any sort of an indicator, McCain will win walking away.

Let's hope this happens.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:19 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 38):

And allow the telecoms to become the sacrificial goats to the altar of our litigious society? Just imagine of some Ninth Circuit court rules that AT&T, due to a class action lawsuit brought by an enterprising young lawyer on behalf of OBL and various thugs, owes the defendants $10 billion. That's what they are trying to avoid, but apparently you don't mind. If you want to screw up our country so much why don't you just join AQ in Iraq and be done with it? And take the lawyer too.

Try looking up the 4th amendment of the United States Constitution. Interesting that you picked on the 9th District, when its been courts in the 3rd and 4th district that has been handling most of these "terror" related cases..Besides the biggest awards given by juries still come out the south.
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:55 pm



Quoting AirCop (Reply 51):
Try looking up the 4th amendment of the United States Constitution.

Would you give the same opinion of our evesdropping attempts on the Germans or Japanese in WWII? The listening posts were on US soil, as they are now. How about the NSA listening in on Soviet communications during the Cold War?

Look, the stated purpose of this operation is to listen in on foreign calls. I think the burden is on you to give evidence that it has been abused against US citizens or residents. Otherwise, why would you care? The Constitution was not meant to give rights to people in, say, Pakistan. That is the Pakistani Constitution's job.
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
jcs17
Posts: 7376
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2001 11:13 am

RE: Dems Will Manage To Lose Pres. Election Again.

Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:45 pm



Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 44):

Talk about someone living in an delusion, you take the cake, JCS. It won't be a bloodbath if McCain wins. It'll be very close. If Obama stays on his roll, he could win convincingly. I think the GOP has put themselves in a precarious position, with a pro-war nominee, at a time when the country is very weary of the conflict in Iraq, and also a nominee who has many of the same views and policy stances as the current, very unpopular President.

The surge has worked, whether you (or Miss Pelosi) choose to believe it or not. America is winning in Iraq, and has been doing so for the past year. What does Obama advocate? An immediate pullout. Whether you choose to believe so or not, Americans don't want to be defeated a la the Fall of Saigon. As unpopular as the war may be, total defeat is even more unpopular. Look, Barack has a shoddy, far left voting record, and very little experience. At the very least, Mondale had experience. But, I guess Obama makes up for that in the cult of personality that he's developed.

The only people who will vote for Obama are the Democrat party loyalists, like yourself, and uneducated dopes who wouldn't know the difference between the Senate and a wet sock ("It's a feeling, man..."). Uneducated dopes seen here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=PzFOOcEQtP0 . I use the words "uneducated dopes" in the nicest way possible because some of my friends are voting for Obama, but really it isn't because of any substance... they don't pay attention to politics and could care less about what he stands for.
America's chickens are coming home to rooooost!

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Scorpio, TheF15Ace, trident3 and 30 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos