Kay
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Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:40 am

Subject: Haider's Corinthian blocks mosques
News Paper: APA
Issue Date: 15/Feb/2008

Content:
Klagenfurt, Austria - In new legislation this week, rightist governor Joerg Haider's province of Corinthian has effectively blocked the possible building of mosques and minarets. The law went through with the votes of Haider's governing Alliance for the Future of Austria (BZ), backed by the conservative People's Party (VP). Haider declared that Corinthian was "pointing the way for Europe". It was "time for a signal", the governor said. He accused the Social Democrats (SP), who were strictly against, of doing nothing to stop "the advance of Islam". Rather than explicitly banning mosques - which would have been unconstitutional - the law restricted "objects of special dimensions". The SP (Brazil)">VP claimed it was not a ban, but a new procedure "for special building projects". Local mayors and other authorities were obliged to call in a "special commission" which would have the power to decide on "objects contradicting the customary local building tradition". Critics pointed out that it might also cast doubt on the prestigious Tibet Center an Huettenberg, close to the home of the late friend of the Dalai Lama, Heinrich Harrer. The Dalai Lama has already personally visited the site. SP head in Corinthian, Gaby Schaunig, said the law was in any case about something that did not exist. There had never so far been an application to build a mosque in the province. Criticism came from Omar Al-Rawi of the Islamic Community in Austria. The building ban was against freedom of religion, the principle of equality for all citizens, and the European Convention of Human Rights. An estimated 15,000 Muslims live in Corinthian, and more than 300,000 in the whole of Austria.


These are translated news articles that are posted daily at my work's intranet. Loads of similar articles on the internet in english and german, but no APA (the news source) internet link per se for this particular one.


My take on this is that Haider's statements and opinions are extreme. Extremism in any direction isn't good. I posted this not for its worth (which isn't much, we get news like this from him day in and day out, in some he claims he wants to leave the EU), but just to stir some discussion.  Smile


Kay
 
INNflight
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:40 pm



Quoting Kay (Thread starter):
My take on this is that Haider's statements and opinions are extreme.

True, but to be honest (while I am not a supporter, or have ever voted for his party) try to get approval for building a church in a Turkish / Iranian / whatever... town.

Freedom of religion? Bull****!
Jet Visuals
 
Kay
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:02 pm



Quoting INNflight (Reply 1):
True, but to be honest (while I am not a supporter, or have ever voted for his party) try to get approval for building a church in a Turkish / Iranian / whatever... town.

Well, what can I say, I agree with you!

Kay
 
RacingGreen07
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:38 pm

Its weird, because I know a muslim whos second name is Haider..

What are the chances...?

Regards!
A dream worth having is a dream worth pursuing- August Horch- Founder of Audi AG
 
Scorpio
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:50 pm



Quoting INNflight (Reply 1):
try to get approval for building a church in a Turkish / Iranian / whatever... town.

Besides the fact that there are more than a few churches in Turkey, which has freedom of religion, it's a comparison that simply doesn't make sense. Because another country doesn't allow something, doesn't mean we shouldn't either. Especially when you start apparently taking countries like Iran as an example.

Quoting INNflight (Reply 1):
Freedom of religion? Bull****!

Extremely slippery and dangerous slope there...
 
ltbewr
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:56 pm

Both sides need to realize they need to compromise. Governments cannot try to restrict religion unnessarly. Religious organizations need to realize they are part of a larger community and must consider how their facilities for worship should fit into the community and not overwhelm it.
Here in the USA, we have Constitutional separation of Faith and State as well as protections of freedom of faith practices. There are also Federal laws that supersede local and state laws that try to restrict facilities of faith organizations, primarily to protect faiths that may be unpopular in a community. There have been abuse of the Federal protections (traffic, housing, already too much tax-exempt properties in the community, building appearance) and may go too far to protect the faith organizations from reasonable regulations.
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:01 pm



Quoting INNflight (Reply 1):
to get approval for building a church in a Turkish

there are many churches in Turkey, and even the Pope of the Greek Orthodox church still has his HQ in Istanbul. So that people in a place with a sizeable Christian presence GET the required approval. And it is the same in countries like Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. And it at least WAS so in Iraq until 2003 .
 
Stretch 8
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:20 pm

Aha, now I know where the "fine Corinthian leather" in the 1977 Chrysler Cordoba came from!
Maggs swings, it's a drive deep to left! The Tigers are going to the World Series!!!
 
Kay
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:28 pm

Although I definitely agree with all the above posts, the context also plays a role and hasn't been mentioned. For example, you have countries that have a recent history of immigration that shaped them, and others not. Austria for example, passed through that process almost 1,000 years ago, and has been for a very long time a land constituted by almost the same few ethnic groups. This is changing now, as the immigrants are taking an fastly increasing share, compared to 10, 20 and 30 years ago, and this is where the muslim percentage comes from.
Now I am FOR immigration and in a certain context I agree that it is healthy and has a vitalizing effect on the economy and culture of a country, and I also agree that some countries need to open up and lighten up, but still you can't directly compare the culture of such countries to that of the US, at least without taking that point into account.
Although the percentages are probably similar, there has been a recent increase that has panicked the extreme right.
Let me clarify though, that I have no respect to a nation that doesn't nurture and respect its immigrants. Gladly Austria has made alot of efforts in that direction.

Kay
 
Boeing744
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 5:55 pm

Quoting INNflight (Reply 1):
True, but to be honest (while I am not a supporter, or have ever voted for his party) try to get approval for building a church in a Turkish / Iranian / whatever... town.

As it's been said already in this thread, why should Austria follow the lead of such countries? Here in Canada we have every sort of religious building you can think of, and nobody seems to have a problem with it.

In the short time I lived in Austria, it seemed to me that almost everyone considered Haider, Strache and the like, a bit of a joke. I only ever encountered one person who thought Strache had "the right idea", although I was never in Kaernten myself. It seemed to me that the FPOe and BZOe were getting a lot of protest votes from people tired of the same old stuff from OeVP and SPOe coalitions.

Any idea on how the people of Kaernten have reacted to this? There's no doubt that some of the mayors and other lower officials are going to try to block this "special commision".

Edited because German accents never work on this form anymore...

[Edited 2008-02-15 09:56:47]
 
Superfly
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:02 pm



Quoting Stretch 8 (Reply 7):
Aha, now I know where the "fine Corinthian leather" in the 1977 Chrysler Cordoba came from!

I was thinking the same. I was sad to find out that it was not from Corinth, Greece when I was there last year.

I see nothing wrong with Joerg Haider's actions.
Bring back the Concorde
 
Boeing744
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:11 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
I see nothing wrong with Joerg Haider's actions.

And why would that be? How in any way is restricting freedom of religion OK?

The only thing I see positive about what he's doing is the actual veil of "protecting customary local building tradition". That's fine, there are some beautiful buildings which would just look strange with a mosque next to them. But that is no reason to restrict the building of mosques altogether... they should just either fit in with the traditional architecture, or be somewhere else (suburbs, etc).
 
Scorpio
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:12 pm



Quoting Superfly (Reply 10):
I see nothing wrong with Joerg Haider's actions.

You don't have a problem with people infringing on one of the basics of any free country, i.e. the freedom of religion?
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:50 pm



Quoting Stretch 8 (Reply 7):
the "fine Corinthian leather"

whenever Mr Haider has prophet status in his native CARINTHIA he never did speak to the Corinthians ! While I doubt that the leather came really from Corinth .
-
 
Kay
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 6:51 pm



Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 9):
Here in Canada we have every sort of religious building you can think of, and nobody seems to have a problem with it.

Boeing744, Canada and Austria can't be directly compared on that particular point for the reason in my above:

"Although I definitely agree with all the above posts, the context also plays a role and hasn't been mentioned. For example, you have countries that have a recent history of immigration that shaped them, and others not. Austria for example, passed through that process almost 1,000 years ago, and has been for a very long time a land constituted by almost the same few ethnic groups. This is changing now, as the immigrants are taking an fastly increasing share, compared to 10, 20 and 30 years ago, and this is where the muslim percentage comes from."

Kay
 
Boeing744
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:50 pm



Quoting Kay (Reply 14):
Boeing744, Canada and Austria can't be directly compared on that particular point for the reason in my above:

"Although I definitely agree with all the above posts, the context also plays a role and hasn't been mentioned. For example, you have countries that have a recent history of immigration that shaped them, and others not. Austria for example, passed through that process almost 1,000 years ago, and has been for a very long time a land constituted by almost the same few ethnic groups. This is changing now, as the immigrants are taking an fastly increasing share, compared to 10, 20 and 30 years ago, and this is where the muslim percentage comes from."

I'm not disagreeing with that - you're absolutely right. That doesn't mean however that Mosques should be banned, nor should it mean that immigrants and native Austrians can't get along. Austria should lead by example in central Europe, not follow the policies of countries such as Iran where "if they don't have churches we won't have mosques".
 
scrubbsywg
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:52 pm

i remember writing a journal entry for my grade 12 english class on some of the things Haider was doing. this was back in the year 2000. We dont hear much about this guy in Canada, and i thought he had gone to the wayside and was voted out. I can't believe this guy still says things like this.
 
pelican
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:12 pm



Quoting Scorpio (Reply 4):
Besides the fact that there are more than a few churches in Turkey, which has freedom of religion,



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
there are many churches in Turkey, and even the Pope of the Greek Orthodox church still has his HQ in Istanbul. So that people in a place with a sizeable Christian presence GET the required approval.

Dream on!
http://www.economist.com/world/europ...displaystory.cfm?story_id=10337900
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,451140,00.html
http://www.gfbv.de/pressemit.php?id=908

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 4):
Because another country doesn't allow something, doesn't mean we shouldn't either.

Here you certainly have a point.

pelican
 
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OA260
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:32 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
there are many churches in Turkey, and even the Pope of the Greek Orthodox church still has his HQ in Istanbul

Oh yes and you forgot to mention they are heavily restricted and have to beg for EVERYTHING !!!!!

Quoting Pelican (Reply 17):
Dream on!
http://www.economist.com/world/europ...displaystory.cfm?story_id=10337900
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,451140,00.html
http://www.gfbv.de/pressemit.php?id=908

Im glad you posted this before me !!!! Some people live in Disneyland.....

If they want tolerance in Christian nations then they must also be tolerant to Christian's in their nations !!!

Like the Irish woman who's Son was killed in Saudi Arabia and she was told she was not allowed to place religious beads in his hands which is a Catholic practice when a loved one dies. She was also told she could not wear her cross when she went to see his dead body !!!
 
pelican
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:47 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
If they want tolerance in Christian nations then they must also be tolerant to Christian's in their nations !!!

Here I disagree. We don't have religious freedom for "them". We have it for us and if "they" are here, our rules - which incorporate religious freedom - apply for "them", too - no matter what "they" are doing in their home countries. If we think religious tolerance is a universal concept, we can't abandon it because they are doing it. They are wrong, so acting like they do would mean we are wrong, too. But if we think they are wrong we can't keep silent about it.
And if they are here they have to respect our rules like religious freedom, too.
Nonetheless we have to be vigilant whether somebody misuses religious freedom and whether it could stir public unrest.

pelican

edit: spelling

[Edited 2008-02-15 15:05:28]
 
Asturias
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:02 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 6):
there are many churches in Turkey, and even the Pope of the Greek Orthodox church still has his HQ in Istanbul. So that people in a place with a sizeable Christian presence GET the required approval.

There are churches in Turkey, they are not many. The Patriarch of the Greek Orthodox is still there despite this western city being taken over by Asian muslims.

The Christians in Turkey get the required Turkish approval, i.e. none at all.

Asturias
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Scorpio
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:45 pm



Quoting Pelican (Reply 17):
Dream on!
http://www.economist.com/world/europ...displaystory.cfm?story_id=10337900
http://www.spiegel.de/international/0,1518,451140,00.html
http://www.gfbv.de/pressemit.php?id=908

How does any of that contradict what I said? There ARE Christian churches in Turkey, and Turkey HAS freedom of religion.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
If they want tolerance in Christian nations then they must also be tolerant to Christian's in their nations !!!

Absolutely no logic in that. None whatsoever. It's just another example of what I said earlier: just because another country does or doesn't do something, doesn't mean we should follow them.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
Like the Irish woman who's Son was killed in Saudi Arabia and she was told she was not allowed to place religious beads in his hands which is a Catholic practice when a loved one dies. She was also told she could not wear her cross when she went to see his dead body !!!

Saudi Arabia does not have freedom of religion. Are you now suggesting that, because they don't have freedom of religion there, we should also ban it here?
 
Superfly
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 6:13 am



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 13):
While I doubt that the leather came really from Corinth .

You are right. I verified that when I was in Corinth, Greece last year. The locals just about laughed me out of town when I asked the question.  Smile
Bring back the Concorde
 
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LTU932
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:23 am



Quoting Kay (Thread starter):
My take on this is that Haider's statements and opinions are extreme. Extremism in any direction isn't good.

Haider is a Nazi (and not because his parents were involved in the NSDAP), so always expect extreme statements from him when it comes to all things not Austrian. The guy is a right extremist, a racist, and a populist. Just read the article, you can notice what kind of a racist tone there is. He wants to "stop the advance of Islam", and the wording he used somehow reminds me of how Hitler preached his ideology of death and destruction. Don't you Austrians have something like the Verfassungsschutz in Germany, to continuously monitor whatever those racist populists of both FPÖ and BZÖ, particularly that bastard Haider, are doing?

We must not tolerate racists of ANY kind, especially not if they go by the name of Jörg Haider and the FPÖ/BZÖ. I'm surprised he's still around in Kärnten.
 
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OA260
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:20 am



Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
HAS freedom of religion.

Really ??? I suggest you educate yourself on the situation on the ground Sir !!!!
 
pelican
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:34 am



Quoting Scorpio (Reply 21):
How does any of that contradict what I said? There ARE Christian churches in Turkey, and Turkey HAS freedom of religion.

If you call that freedom of religion I don't know. A state which confiscates property from Christian churches, a state which refuses building permissions for Churches, where Churches do not have legal status and enjoy only limited propriety rights is clearly discriminating against non Muslim faith. Especially because all those rules do not apply for the majority Muslim faith. It's far from being Saudi Arabia but it's also not up to what we in Europe call freedom of religion.

pelican
 
L410Turbolet
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:41 am



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 23):
The guy is a right extremist, a racist, and a populist.

As far as his extremisim... he's probably no worse than the left-wing extremes of the likes of maoist Barosso and the rest of the EU establishment from the "junge Revolutionäre, alte Hofraten" generation. Why being a left-wing extremist is far more socially acceptable in Germany than being the same in right-wing version is a different issue and I suspect we all know the answer.

Quoting LTU932 (Reply 23):
He wants to "stop the advance of Islam"

And that is wrong exactly why???
 
Kay
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:07 am



Quoting ScrubbsYWG (Reply 16):
I can't believe this guy still says things like this.



Quoting LTU932 (Reply 23):
We must not tolerate racists of ANY kind, especially not if they go by the name of Jörg Haider and the FPÖ/BZÖ. I'm surprised he's still around in Kärnten.

I always believed the explanation for Haider still being around is his qualities in terms of populism, perseverence and rather remarkable intelligence. He actually has quite a potential. These are the factors that balance the fact that his views belong to another age. It's the two together that cause him to 1) still be around but 2) be a player only on the Kärnten political scene and not the Austrian one, and spending all his time fighting petty things like Corinthian street signs having to be only in German instead of German-Slovenian, and throwing provocative comments all week against Bruxelles. He reached his highest potential when he became part of the government in 2000, which was exceptional considering his views, the conditions were different after the 90's, but his career today is pointing in one direction, and that's to a smaller and smaller role.

Kay
 
Doona
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:12 am



Quoting INNflight (Reply 1):
True, but to be honest (while I am not a supporter, or have ever voted for his party) try to get approval for building a church in a Turkish / Iranian / whatever... town.

You don't think there are churches in Turkey? Hold on, where does the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church hang out again?

And AFAIK, there are enough churches for the 0.5% or so of the Iranian population that is Christian.

Anywho, how does the Austrian Government permit a local leader to infringe on the rights of the country's citizens? And especially when freedom of religion seems to be a pretty important (as far as human rights go, that is).

Quoting OA260 (Reply 24):
I suggest you educate yourself on the situation on the ground Sir !!!!

Once again, the seat of the Orthodox church is in Turkey, so there has to at least some tolerance of Christians...  sarcastic 

Cheers
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ME AVN FAN
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 11:51 am



Quoting Pelican (Reply 17):
Istanbul. So that people in a place with a sizeable Christian presence GET the required approval.

Dream on!

I did NOT say that there were no problems existing. There are. But this does not change the fact that religion is free in the countries I mentioned, and that churches CAN be built. You can find sectarian problems anywhere, but declare them to be the rule is not acceptable.
-

Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
there are many churches in Turkey, and even the Pope of the Greek Orthodox church still has his HQ in Istanbul

Oh yes and you forgot to mention they are heavily restricted and have to beg for EVERYTHING !!!!!

also Protestants in Catholic areas in Europe are "restricted" and have to beg for everything . That majorities tend to use their position is undeniable.
-
 
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OA260
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:45 pm



Quoting Doona (Reply 28):
Once again, the seat of the Orthodox church is in Turkey, so there has to at least some tolerance of Christians...

Means NOTHING !!! Go and read up on it and come back to me with your findings . Just because somewhere has a seat for something doesnt mean they dont have to fight to keep it !!! Big difference......

Heres something to help you along your way !!!::::::

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2006/78844.htm

The government did not recognize the ecumenical status of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch, acknowledging him only as the head of the country's dwindling Greek Orthodox community. As a result the government has long maintained that only citizens of the country could become patriarch, serve as members of the Greek Orthodox Holy Synod, and participate in patriarchal elections. Members of the Greek Orthodox community asserted that these restrictions threatened the survival of the patriarchate in Istanbul, because, with fewer than 2,500 Greek Orthodox persons remaining in the country, the community was becoming too small to maintain the institution.

The law restricts religious services to designated places of worship. Municipal codes mandate that only the government can designate a place of worship; if a religious group has no legal standing in the country, it may not be eligible for a designated site. Non-Muslim religious services, particularly for groups that did not own property recognized by the GDF, often took place on diplomatic property or in private apartments. Police occasionally prohibited Christians from holding services in private apartments, and prosecutors sometimes opened cases against Christians for holding unauthorized gatherings.
 
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LTU932
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:33 pm



Quoting L410Turbolet (Reply 26):
And that is wrong exactly why???

If he had said "stop the advance of islamic fundamentalism", I wouldn't have had a problem. But the way Haider expresses his thought makes it appear as if he hates all kinds of muslims, regardless of whether they're moderate and integrated or not. It's as if Haider wants to erradicate all Muslims from Austria, just like Hitler tried to erradicate all Jews from Germany.
 
Boeing744
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:51 pm

People are getting quite beside the point in this thread. YES, many muslim countries do NOT allow freedom of religion! But how, in any way, does that make this right?! Why should the muslims who left these extremist countries for a better life be punished by the same sort of crap (except reversed) that they experience back home? It's the policies of the respective countries, not these immigrants themselves.

Think about it, if a muslim chooses to immigrate to a predominantly christian nation, do you really think he or she would be the type to support a one-religion system back in their home country?
 
Scorpio
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 5:56 pm



Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 32):
People are getting quite beside the point in this thread. YES, many muslim countries do NOT allow freedom of religion! But how, in any way, does that make this right?! Why should the muslims who left these extremist countries for a better life be punished by the same sort of crap (except reversed) that they experience back home? It's the policies of the respective countries, not these immigrants themselves.

Very well said, and that really is the crux of this whole discussion: people appear to be advocating copying the policies of the very countries they despise, with things like 'we can't build churches there, so they can't build mosques here.'
 
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OA260
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:05 pm



Quoting Scorpio (Reply 33):
with things like 'we can't build churches there, so they can't build mosques here.'

Maybe the Christian populations in these countries where they are restricted and suffer should have an input in what they think should be done. If Muslim populations in European countries were to lobby for greater tolerence by their governments in their homelands towards other religions then we might start to see some changes. At present there is no incentive for these people to do it. Maybe restricting the further expansions as seen below might help them reconsider.


http://www.worldbulletin.net/news_detail.php?id=17502

Mosque battle unfolds in Oxford
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:21 am



Quoting OA260 (Reply 34):
If Muslim populations in European countries were to lobby for greater tolerence by their governments in their homelands towards other religions then we might start to see some changes.

-
While you possibly overestimate the chance of Muslims in Europe to influence the governments of their countries of origin, not least as they hardly are in influential position, you at the other hand underestimate the modernising influence they actually have onto society there. During the holiday-season many bring over economic, technical and social ideas from Europe. Such things however are slow processes. Haider like things however give traditionalists in Muslim countries a nice argument as they now can respond with "and YOU have problems with people like Mr Haider".
-
You may compare it with Greece. I recently learnt about realities there from a mixed Swiss-Greek couple. About things like Greece allowing either civil marriage or accepting a Protestant marriage. About the influence of the clergy in society and politics and economy. And more. The wife however stressed the importance of the modernising influence of modern minded Greeks living in Western Europe, but pleading for patience.
 
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OA260
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:13 pm



Quoting ME AVN FAN (Reply 35):
You may compare it with Greece. I recently learnt about realities there from a mixed Swiss-Greek couple. About things like Greece allowing either civil marriage or accepting a Protestant marriage. About the influence of the clergy in society and politics and economy. And more. The wife however stressed the importance of the modernising influence of modern minded Greeks living in Western Europe, but pleading for patience.

There is not a problem in Greece with freedom of religion. I attend the Catholic church on many occasion's in Greece and just last Christmas attended the annual Christmas concert there in the local school . They have more facilities than most Greek Orthodox churches. They have an excellent Catholic school with top of the range amenities. My parents are two different religions and I have never felt discriminated against .
 
ME AVN FAN
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RE: Haider's Corinthian Blocks Mosques

Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:59 pm



Quoting OA260 (Reply 36):
There is not a problem in Greece with freedom of religion.

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well, the stories differ. Just as elsewhere. Much depends on locality etc. Most of religious intolerance in this world is NOT the gross one which makes it into the media, but the one on the small fire, without violence.

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