wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:27 am

Global warming blamed for unusual cold spell

Nishika Patel

Thursday, February 14, 2008

"As Hong Kong shivers through its second-longest cold spell since 1885, scientists point to global warming to explain the abnormal cold weather phenomenon worldwide'

"We are seeing extremely unusual weather across the world," said polar researcher Rebecca Lee Lok-sze. "This is due to human activities and our style of living. Carbon dioxide emissions are heavy, which is changing the weather rapidly. We could see colder winters and hotter summers in the future in Hong Kong."

Greenpeace echoed the view, saying mainland scientists had also concluded that the extreme cold weather in China was triggered by climate change. "This does not only cause an increase in global warming but also causes extreme weather patterns," said campaigner Edward Chan.

Hong Kong yesterday recorded its second- longest cold spell - 21 days. The longest cold period - when temperatures fall below 12 degrees Celsius - lasted 27 days in 1968. This record is expected to remain intact as the thermometer is forecast to register a low of 13 degrees by Sunday.'

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_d...t_id=61512&sid=17581089&con_type=1

There it is folks. It is official from the alarmist scientist's. Warming means colder temps, or is it warmer temps cause heavy rains, or is it warming means more "extreme". Weather has become climate, and climate has become weather. No matter what the weather/climate does, it's the fault of man-made global warming.

I love the official view from the Greenpeace scientists, oops I mean campaigner Edward Chan who makes it official that warming means anything extreme including extreme cold. As soon as the word Greenpeace appears in any news release, anything that comes after it should never be taken seriously.

This news article provides further confirmation that the issue of climate change, as communicated by much of the media, is about political advocacy and is not about a scientific investigation.

And looking up Dr Lee's Qualafications has revealed that she has transformed herself from a professional designer, photographer, painter and writer to a polar scientist and in recent years, she has devoted her energies to the global environmental movement.

http://www.eoc.org.hk/eoc/otherproje...s/careerchallenge2003/bio/rlee.htm

Notice the key word "Movement" like Marxism, Leninism, socialism, communism and Global warmingism.
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
cfalk
Posts: 10221
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2000 6:38 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:53 am

I have you one even better - Global Warming has become so strong and so pervasive that even imaginary creatures are becoming extinct:

Quote:
Veteran Loch Ness Monster Hunter Gives Up
Feb 13 2008 By Bob Dow

LEGENDARY Nessie hunter Robert Rines is giving up his search for the monster after 37 years.

The 85-year-old American will make one last trip in a bid to find the elusive beast.

...

Despite having hundreds of sonar contacts over the years, the trail has since gone cold and Rines believes that Nessie may be dead, a victim of global warming.


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...er-hunter-gives-up-86908-20317853/

Come to think of it, has anyone seen any unicorns lately?

[Edited 2008-02-17 17:55:04]
The only thing you should feel when shooting a terrorist: Recoil.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:20 am

We get it. Some of you think that Global Warming is a cult/church/sect/delusion/conspiracy/fallacy/hypocrisy. Now, could you please get over yourselves before people start hitting "Suggest Deletion" for "discussed to death"? I've avoided these threads like the plague since I seem to always see the same from the same in them, but enough is enough. How hard would it be to include a little thought?

[Edited 2008-02-17 18:21:50]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
NeilYYZ
Posts: 2443
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 12:55 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:30 am



Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):

There's a ton of threads discussing the other side of the coin too. No need to get all bent out of shape.

Quoting Cfalk (Reply 1):

Come to think of it, has anyone seen any unicorns lately?

You're right, they used to be all over the place when I was about 5 and I haven't seen any since then. Probably also attributable to global warming.
It may be too early to drink scotch... But it is NEVER too early to think about it...
 
beefstew25
Posts: 581
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 11:40 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:42 am

So my new light bulbs have mercury in them. That is great for the environment, right?
MLB: Where you are always number one for takeoff.....
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:57 am

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
We get it. Some of you think that Global Warming is a cult/church/sect/delusion/conspiracy/fallacy/hypocrisy

No no, MANY of us believe that because it IS. Every part of this movement is crap......the ultimate hypocrite Al Gore, the continuous "be afraid right now" scare tactics, morons shouting that science has come to a consensus about it when it hasn't even come close to any consensus............all of this nonsense revolves around cult, delusion, fallacy, etc.

There's no question the earth is currently warming slightly, but there is no more concrete evidence it's due to humans rather than being a natural course of the Earth, the Sun & the Solar system, or both. Earth has been entering warming and cooling periods for as long as it has existed - and that's much longer than Chevy Tahoes and the evil Americans that drive them have been around.

Hell, we humans in 2008 still can't even accurately predict the weather worth a damn, and the Global Warming movement is trying to establish our overall effect on the Earth's temperatures to some magically near-accurate point. Wow.  



Aloges, you seem quite offended/annoyed that many hold the views above, why is that?

Also, are you aware that several credited scientists have come out and said they're flat out afraid to offer any opposing view on Al Gore's cult for the sake of their career and credibility? That should never have to happen.......not in this day and age.




->NWA742

[Edited 2008-02-17 21:05:52]
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 5:46 am

Too cold = Global Warming!
Too hot = Global Warming!
Floods = Global Warming!
Drought = Global Warming!
Too much ____ = Global Warming!
Too little ____ = Global Warming!

Did I miss one?

Or is Global Warming! the first unification theory that science has?
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:27 am



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 5):
Aloges, you seem quite offended/annoyed that many hold the views above, why is that?

You could not be more wrong. What does annoy me is the way it is targeted here in this forum as nothing but a "few" environmentalists' pipe dream. That may be because all the arguments people are thinking of have been exchanged, i.e. the topic has actually been discussed to death, but it may also be due to the same tired left vs. right bickering that has soured political discussion in this forum for me and many others. It seems that today, nothing is more important than smearing and ridiculing your enemy as opposed to discussing with and responding to your opponent. I for one don't want to be an enemy in any discussion.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 5):
There's no question the earth is currently warming slightly, but there is no more concrete evidence it's due to humans rather than being a natural course of the Earth, the Sun & the Solar system, or both.

Fine by me, if that is your conviction. I will never agree with it, but will (have to, anyway) accept the fact.

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 5):
Chevy Tahoes and the evil Americans that drive them

No, no, no. < /Thatcher voice > "Everyone hates us for being free Americans" is just so utterly ridiculous, especially in this case. But would you even listen if I pointed out what e.g. those burning Chinese coal pits are doing to the environment?

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 5):
on Al Gore's cult

See, that's another thing... the campaign to smear and defame anyone agreeing with parts of Al Gore's film seems much more like a cult. Someone mentions his name, out come people chanting "I am free to do anything I like, I am free, I am free, I am free!" while the amount of people who actually suggest e.g. outlawing SUVs can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
Superfly
Posts: 37735
Joined: Thu May 11, 2000 8:01 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 12:09 pm

Global warming is real however it is a waste of time losing sleep over it. The tree-huggers need to realize that $hit happens and the atmosphere is constantly changing. Always have, always will. Let mother nature take her course. Mother nature is moody and is always changing. After all, mother nature is a female.  Wink

Those fools that are sterilizing themselves and freaking out over plastic grocery bags are only going to end up getting grey hair prematurely. Be grateful for the life you have and enjoy the short time you are here on this planet.
Bring back the Concorde
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:27 pm



Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
We get it. Some of you think that Global Warming is a cult/church/sect/delusion/conspiracy/fallacy/hypocrisy. Now, could you please get over yourselves before people start hitting "Suggest Deletion" for "discussed to death"? I've avoided these threads like the plague since I seem to always see the same from the same in them, but enough is enough. How hard would it be to include a little thought?

The problem is that the news media keeps putting out stories like the one I posted. It has Zero science involved and the people quoted are an interior designer and a PR person. It is a political story not a scientific one. As long as political entities keep pushing the "science" you will continue to have threads like this.
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:35 pm

How not to measure temperature, part 52: Another UFA sighted in Arizona

"My post How not to measure temperature, part 51 was also cross posted over at Climate Audit, and has created quite a stir when Atmoz, who is at the University of Arizona, tried to demonstrate that the temperature spike shown in the GISS data at Lampasas, TX, was not due to the relocation next to a building and asphalt parking lot, but rather some problem with GISS algorithm to do homogeneity adjustment to the data."

As is typical when an MMTS sensor gets installed by NOAA/NWS to replace the traditional Stevenson Screen, it got closer to human habitation, and in this case, a LOT closer. Too close I’d say:

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...52-another-ufa-sighted-in-arizona/






More bad Temps by Hansen and GISS
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
Flighty
Posts: 7857
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:04 pm



Quoting NWA742 (Reply 5):
....all of this nonsense revolves around cult, delusion, fallacy, etc.

If so then I recommend you never fly in airplanes. After all, airplanes are designed with atmospheric science and physics in mind.

If those scientists don't know what they are talking about (indeed, if the entire science community is corrupt / imcompetent) then how can you trust them with your life? How do you know an aircraft will really work? Do you suppose it was self-evident always? Do you suppose human civilization got where it is today (designing the microchip) by only digesting what is obvious to the naked eye?

How much scientific deductive thinking are you willing to give up in your own life? Those who hate science should not make use of it... otherwise THEY are hypocrites.

Besides, practically speaking... what do scientists have to gain by being biased? Are their IQs low, are they uncreative, or are they dishonest? Which is it?

Do you suppose scientists are publicity hounds? Seriously? I think they are awkward, shy, quiet people who don't have much greed. Science is not the way to make money OR become a hero...

I think scientists are heroes. Without them, we would all be subsistence farmers... advances in chemistry alone are astounding as to our daily quality of life. Science is truth, and is debated scientifically. If you have a scientific argument, by all means pose it to the orthodoxy. Or start your own alternative scientific literature.

To dismiss science is to dismiss reality itself. It's a contradiction because we cannot dismiss reality. So science is real. It just depends on who your favorite scientists are. Apparently some of us think all of today's physicists / climatologists are full of shit.

I am a skeptic as far as it will go. For example I am skeptical of the FDA drug approval process. I believe drug companies distort science (intentionally) with misleading methodology. They "game the system" in order to make money. A statistician can see that.

If I saw the same motivation with climate / physics scientists I would be the first to say so. But there's just no motive, no evidence and it's crazy to say that. One thing I will NOT get pulled into is debating the science with scientists. Scientists can be dishonest in rare cases. But broad truths come from them and nowhere else. To sit back and deduce that the world's scientists are "wrong" about something is extremely arrogant. I do not know how the atmosphere works. Full stop. But we have 1,000s of PhD genius experts who do know. So I trust them.

Just like I trust brain surgeons how to do brain surgery. It's probably very debatable. But when it comes to brain surgery, I shut up and let the experts do their thing. Our whole world is based on this, and we ALL accept it. We are in a science-led world and its creations are beyond our comprehension. We just have to deal with that.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:13 pm

The sheer number of repetitions does not increase the validity of false claims.
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:57 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
The sheer number of repetitions does not increase the validity of false claims.

You are right for once. Just because the Enviros, The mainsteram media and the IPCC keep saying it does not mean that it is true.
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:19 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
Do you suppose scientists are publicity hounds?

How, then, do they get research funds?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
Science is not the way to make money OR become a hero...

Aren't there plenty of famous scientists?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
To dismiss science is to dismiss reality itself.

Plenty of scientific theories have been dismissed thru time immemorial. To believe that science right now is finally correct is fallacy in itself. Science has been proven wrong as many times as it has been proven right.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
It's a contradiction because we cannot dismiss reality.

Reality is in the eye of the beholder. What is real to me might not be real to you.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
To sit back and deduce that the world's scientists are "wrong" about something is extremely arrogant

To assume that they are always right is just as arrogant.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
Scientists can be dishonest in rare cases

And science can KILL in many instances. The whole stupidity over nuclear weapons is a good example, where the best minds were brought together, they built and tested the damn thing, and then (after the genie was out of the bottle) decide that it may not have been the best thing to do. And we are still dealing with the after effect of their stupidity. Scientists are people just like you and me, and they CAN make mistakes.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
If I saw the same motivation with climate / physics scientists I would be the first to say so. But there's just no motive,

Research grants are a motive.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
The sheer number of repetitions does not increase the validity of false claims.

Funny, it applies to those who believe in man-made global warming as well...
 
NWA742
Posts: 4505
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2002 11:35 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:45 pm



Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
You could not be more wrong. What does annoy me is the way it is targeted here in this forum as nothing but a "few" environmentalists' pipe dream.

And who has targeted it that way?

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
That may be because all the arguments people are thinking of have been exchanged, i.e. the topic has actually been discussed to death, but it may also be due to the same tired left vs. right bickering that has soured political discussion in this forum for me and many others. It seems that today, nothing is more important than smearing and ridiculing your enemy as opposed to discussing with and responding to your opponent. I for one don't want to be an enemy in any discussion.

Yeah well, that's what the political world has become today, and I agree that it's unfortunate.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
No, no, no. < /Thatcher voice > "Everyone hates us for being free Americans" is just so utterly ridiculous, especially in this case.

Actually, it's not. One of global warming's most trusted "activists" Al Gore loves to blame this country any American but himself more than anybody else.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 7):
See, that's another thing... the campaign to smear and defame anyone agreeing with parts of Al Gore's film seems much more like a cult.

I wouldn't call it a campaign to smear people who may agree with parts of what he says - hell I certainly agree with him that we should be taking more care of our environment. However those who blindly buy in to everything he says and start calling themselves "activists" for doing so - these people are idiots.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
If so then I recommend you never fly in airplanes. After all, airplanes are designed with atmospheric science and physics in mind.

 rotfl 

Perhaps the most idiotic "reasoning" I've ever seen written on this board!

You think I have it out for all science, scientists, and all principals of physics just because I don't believe in humans being the primary cause of global warming?

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Hell did you not even see me defending certain scientists in my above post?

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
If those scientists don't know what they are talking about (indeed, if the entire science community is corrupt / imcompetent)

Never claimed nor implied that. Words into my mouth. The entire basis of your response needs a huge  redflag 

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
Besides, practically speaking... what do scientists have to gain by being biased? Are their IQs low, are they uncreative, or are they dishonest? Which is it?

How about none of the above? Listen, I don't doubt that the majority of the scientists who believe we cause global warming are being honest and non-biased in their claims. I just don't like it when people claim that there has been a concensus drawn in the scientific community over global warming, because there hasn't, and I also don't like it when some scientists say they are threatened by bringing any views apposing Gore's movement into the picture.

You are certainly speaking in the manner that there has been a concensus drawn in the scientific community over global warming, and you're wrong. You somehow make the giant leap of logic that me not buying into Gore's movement is somehow an attack on all science and even physics...........what absolute crap.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
I think scientists are heroes. Without them, we would all be subsistence farmers... advances in chemistry alone are astounding as to our daily quality of life.

Yes.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
To dismiss science is to dismiss reality itself.

What science am I dismissing? Seems to me you're dismissing all the science offering opposing evidence to Gore's movement that you seem to believe in dearly.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
I am a skeptic as far as it will go

Obviously you're highly skeptic over Gore's movement.  Yeah sure

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
If I saw the same motivation with climate / physics scientists I would be the first to say so. But there's just no motive, no evidence and it's crazy to say that.

Wrong. There are motives for dishonest scientists to join Gore's movement, because it happesn to be very popular today. Think about benefits with regards to publicity, career, and money.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
Scientists can be dishonest in rare cases. But broad truths come from them and nowhere else.

Scientists are humans and humans tend to be dishonest individuals more so than honest, I hate to break it to you. Broad truths don't just come from science, either. I'd say they can come from philospophy, religion, morality, and spirituality as well. They do for many people, including me.


Again, you somehow think that me not buying into Gore's movement is somehow an attack on all science and even physics...........you couldn't be further from the truth. It's really because I respect science and the truth more than global warming alarmists, because I feel not enough evidence has been established in EITHER direction to firmly take a side in this issue.




-NWA742
Some people are like slinkies - not good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when pushed down the stairs
 
Klaus
Posts: 20648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:29 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 14):
Quoting Klaus (Reply 12):
The sheer number of repetitions does not increase the validity of false claims.

Funny, it applies to those who believe in man-made global warming as well...

Sure. "Belief" is just not required due to the presence of verifiable evidence.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:53 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 16):
"Belief" is just not required due to the presence of verifiable evidence.

Verifiable evidence can change according to the newest theories. There have been plenty of theories, proven during their time by 'verifiable evidence', that have been proven incorrect after additional evidence came to light.

And climate does NOT have the best record of correct prediction, witness the predictions of the last two hurricane seasons. You are essentially asking me to believe in a science that cannot verify what the weather will do two weeks from now but that they are correct in assumptions about what it will do ten years from now.

Again, if you had lived in the past, both recent and long past, you would have defended many consensus theories that are no longer applicable.

Hell, even last night I was watching a program about T-Rex last night. In my short 36 years, I have seen T-Rex assumptions (with verifiable evidence) change THREE times. Lately, dinosaur theories are changing AGAIN to believing that dinosaurs may NOT have disappeared after all, but that birds are direct descendants of dinosaurs. And yet, seeing how science is ALWAYS in a state of flux, you are asking me to believe that this time they are correct.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:02 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 17):
Verifiable evidence can change according to the newest theories.

Wrong. It's the theories which have to adapt if the evidence requires it.

Thus far the theory of a significant human influence on global climate change has not just not been debunked by verifiable evidence, it has actually been vindicated the more the more evidence is accumulated. It has grown from a crazy and laughed-about outsider hypothesis to the mainstream theory in the climatology field of natural science which is now the basis for worldwide policy changes.

It takes a high level of consistency with accumulating evidence for a theory to get that far.
 
Flighty
Posts: 7857
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:32 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 17):
Hell, even last night I was watching a program about T-Rex last night. In my short 36 years, I have seen T-Rex assumptions (with verifiable evidence) change THREE times. Lately, dinosaur theories are changing AGAIN to believing that dinosaurs may NOT have disappeared after all, but that birds are direct descendants of dinosaurs. And yet, seeing how science is ALWAYS in a state of flux, you are asking me to believe that this time they are correct.

This is all fair game. And I will feed you another example you may already know. Geologists did not believe in "plate tectonics" until the 1960s, if not later. That's the most basic thing about geology, and the scientists did not get it! In fact they were hostile to it for the longest time!

I think scientists can get on the wrong track. But at least, when science IS wrong, it has good self-correction mechanisms. The best way to solve problems like this is to become a scientist. Skeptics are very valuable.

I am willing to entertain the idea that climate change from Co2 and coal plants is an unproven theory. But that seems random. So many phenomena are even more poorly understood. Fact is, you can model planet Earth, covered by an atmosphere like ours. You can cut down forests in that model, and add Co2. At the atomic level, you can simulate what happens.

That's what they are doing. The Earth is complicated but not THAT complicated. They are NOT predicting cloud patterns and hurricanes (very hard tasks). Instead, they are modeling 1 ball in space covered with air, against 1 Sun.

As they change the surface of the ball, its atmosphere composition etc, its temperature will change according to basic physics. Pretty simple right.

They know the forest coverage over time. They know our human Co2 emissions. Established laws of physics can explain what happens (if anything). The computer spits out an answer.

With those results, we get into debating "does sunlight against a co2 molecule induce heat-trapping" which we know to be a molecular fact, it does. Look at Venus for a nice example.

Just surmising HOW they do this work, but I really have no idea.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:56 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 18):
Wrong. It's the theories which have to adapt if the evidence requires it.

Easy to have a global warming theory, when history and prior evidence shows that global warming and cooling have been a normal part of earth history for millenia. Global warming and cooling would have occurred whether we'd be responsible for it or not. My only issue is whether it is human caused. And my biggest question is whether the solution proposed is worse than the disease.

Humans have HAD to adapt to climate change since our arrival here. The Sahara is quite recent by earth history. The Pueblo indians were affected by a prolonged drought. The last Ice Age occurred a mere 10,000 years ago.

And frankly, global warming is NOTHING compared to other disasters that befall the earth in a regular basis. Eathquakes can create big tsunamis. The Cumbre Vieja could have a landslide anytime. Or we could have another meteor hit the earth, with an interesting article attached.

http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0706977104v1
 
slider
Posts: 6817
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:21 pm



Quoting Cfalk (Reply 1):
Come to think of it, has anyone seen any unicorns lately?

HAHA!!

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
We get it. Some of you think that Global Warming is a cult/church/sect/delusion/conspiracy/fallacy/hypocrisy.

All of the above. The real conservationist and rational discussion jumped the shark a few years ago.

Quoting Aloges (Reply 2):
How hard would it be to include a little thought?

Ask the enviro-cultists that. That knife cuts both ways, admittedly.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
It's a contradiction because we cannot dismiss reality.

Democrats do it all the time! haha.... sorry couldn't resist that one. Politicians in general ignore reality.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 14):
And science can KILL in many instances.

Kinda like the hysteria over DDT. NOT using it has killed more people than not.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:34 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):

All I care about in the end is for BOTH sides to realize that science changes constantly, and the attitude that STOPS progress is the belief that 'now we have it right'. DO NOT STIFLE DEBATE, regardless of your opinions.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 19):
The Earth is complicated but not THAT complicated.

Yes, it is complicated and remains so. When you do a search for what science has NOT been able to answer, you'd find some very basic questions in that list. Did you know, for example, that science still does not have an answer for how felines purr?

And reminds me of the same T-Rex show last night, as they were making comparisons with Jurassic Park. In the years since the movie came out, scientists have found that there are other (not understood steps) to get the Jurassic Park concept to happen.
 
Klaus
Posts: 20648
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:09 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
Easy to have a global warming theory, when history and prior evidence shows that global warming and cooling have been a normal part of earth history for millenia. Global warming and cooling would have occurred whether we'd be responsible for it or not.

For the current rapidly accelerating change which is what we're dealing with now, scientists have found entirely (or even predominantly) natural causes to be increasingly unlikely.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
My only issue is whether it is human caused.

That is exactly what the theory in question is all about, not about the undisputed reality of natural cycles.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
And my biggest question is whether the solution proposed is worse than the disease.

That's not even a good joke.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
Humans have HAD to adapt to climate change since our arrival here.

And they've had several very close calls.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
The Pueblo indians were affected by a prolonged drought.

And there are indications that at least some of them starved and/or abandoned their homes after damaging or destroying the ecosystems around them. This kind of thing has happened several times in different regions of the world.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
And frankly, global warming is NOTHING compared to other disasters that befall the earth in a regular basis. Eathquakes can create big tsunamis. The Cumbre Vieja could have a landslide anytime. Or we could have another meteor hit the earth, with an interesting article attached.

Total fatalism is the least convincing approach to any possible problem I know.
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:35 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 21):
The real conservationist and rational discussion jumped the shark a few years ago.

How so? You could only get that impression if all you follow was prime time mass media coverage.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 18, 2008 11:39 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
And my biggest question is whether the solution proposed is worse than the disease.

That's not even a good joke.

Really, DDT and kudzu come to mind. Lobotomies as well. There have been plenty of cases where the cure was worse than the disease.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):
Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 20):
The Pueblo indians were affected by a prolonged drought.

And there are indications that at least some of them starved and/or abandoned their homes after damaging or destroying the ecosystems around them. This kind of thing has happened several times in different regions of the world.

CO2, which is required by plants to grow, does not constitute destroying the ecosystem. And we forget the example of Easter Island. There are far worse things that humans have done to the environment that adding CO2 to it.

Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):

Total fatalism is the least convincing approach to any possible problem I know.

Fatalism? Why? It is simply reality. I have not used any examples that are not from the recent or very recent past. From the article above, it seems that the last Ice Age could have been caused by a bolide exploding above ground a mere 10,000 years ago. Will it happen again? You bet. Could it be tomorrow? Ditto there as well. And do global warming proponents not use fatalism in their arguments as well?
 
santosdumont
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:22 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:30 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 22):
DO NOT STIFLE DEBATE, regardless of your opinions.

Unfortunately, the political skullduggery from the White House aimed at bona fide scientific research on the global warming issue -- coupled with "findings" that oil companies can purchase and research "foundations" that these same companies can just as easily manufacture are designed to do just that.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
slider
Posts: 6817
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:29 pm



Quoting Aloges (Reply 24):

How so? You could only get that impression if all you follow was prime time mass media coverage.

Or Anet...

Aloges, unfortunately, the mass media HAS framed the debate and thus it has become rather polarized. The rational thought has been drowned out.

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 25):
Really, DDT and kudzu come to mind. Lobotomies as well. There have been plenty of cases where the cure was worse than the disease.

Don't believe the hype. DDT is fine. THe hysteria over it was a scam. Meanwhile, how many have died due to unchecked malaria because of its prohibition?
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:38 pm



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 26):
Unfortunately, the political skullduggery from the White House

Speaking of political skullduggery.


Green crusades lot of talk
By Stephen Dinan, Washington Times February 19, 2008

Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama have called for strict mandatory limits to control greenhouse gases but they aren’t leading by example — each has failed to pay for offsets to cover all of his campaign’s carbon emissions.

Campaign finance records for 2007 show that neither of the two leading presidential candidates has spent money to independently cover his campaign’s "carbon footprint"

"They clearly should be not only buying these ration coupons, or indulgences, but they should be massively reducing their footprint," said Christopher Horner, author of the "Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming." "The fact that they’re out front on [global warming] is where their troubles start."

http://junkscience.com/blog_js/2008/02/19/green-crusades-lot-of-talk/


More hypocrisy by the Politicians that try to use the natural fluctuations of our planets climate to tax us but then do not follow there own advice to us.
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
andessmf
Posts: 5689
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:53 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 19, 2008 5:33 pm



Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 26):
Unfortunately, the political skullduggery from the White House...

So, you think only one side has done so??
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:10 pm



Quoting Klaus (Reply 23):
For the current rapidly accelerating change which is what we're dealing with now, scientists have found entirely (or even predominantly) natural causes to be increasingly unlikely.

Which scientists? Which studies have shown that natural cause is unlikely?


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2169/2243752283_a9e522058f_b.jpg

From the RSS monthly anomalies.


Where is the rapid accelerating increase? Looks like pretty steady ups and downs except for the El Nino year. Well within narural cycles.The only accelerating increase is on the models of the alarmist. Well
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
santosdumont
Posts: 1157
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 7:22 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:23 pm



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 29):
Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 26):
Unfortunately, the political skullduggery from the White House...

So, you think only one side has done so??

You shouldn't assume that.
"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
 
aloges
Posts: 14842
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:17 pm



Quoting Slider (Reply 27):
The rational thought has been drowned out.

Which is exactly why I posted reply 2. I would much appreciate discussion beyond the level that makes national/worldwide headlines these days, but alas, that is rare. Oh well, such is life... not a bowl of cherries.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
slider
Posts: 6817
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:42 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:54 pm



Quoting Aloges (Reply 32):
Oh well, such is life... not a bowl of cherries.

yeah, cherries are endangered because of rising temperatures! Crops are being made extinct!

LMAO!!

Good points though, seriously.  Smile
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:39 pm

Another Global Temp Index Dives in January 08, This Time HadCRUT

The global surface temperature anomaly data from the UK Hadley Climate Research Unit has just been released, and it shows a significant drop in the global temperature anomaly in January 2008, to just 0.034C, just slightly above zero. This caps a full year of temperature drop from HadCRUT’s January 2007 value of 0.632C.

The ∆T for the past 12 months is minus 0.595°C which is in line with other respected global temperature metrics that I have reported on in the past two weeks. RSS, UAH, and GISS global temperature sets all show sharp drops in the last year.”

http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...-dives-in-jan08-this-time-hadcrut/




http://icecap.us/images/uploads/HADCRUT.jpg


Notice the steady drop over the last four to six years. The trend will be pointing down very soon. Why is the Main Stream media not covering this?
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:02 am



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 34):
Why is the Main Stream media not covering this?

One significant factor might be that the sources are considered unreliable, and having a tendency. Your graph as such has not been produced by the UK unit you mentioned, and the site that hosts it, ICECAP.US, also hosts a number of well-know global warming deniers and sceptics. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Icecap
 
JoshSixtySeven
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 5:52 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:19 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
To dismiss science is to dismiss reality itself

In some parts of the world, the creation story is called "science", go figure  Wink
Speed has never killed anyone, it's suddenly becoming stationary that gets you...
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:37 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 35):
One significant factor might be that the sources are considered unreliable, and having a tendency. Your graph as such has not been produced by the UK unit you mentioned, and the site that hosts it, ICECAP.US, also hosts a number of well-know global warming deniers and sceptics. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...cecap

Once again with the typical alarmist response. If you do not like the fugures attack the source.  Embarrassment
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:17 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 35):
One significant factor might be that the sources are considered unreliable, and having a tendency

http://icecap.us/images/uploads/CRU_AND_MSU_vs_CO2.jpg


Little or no warming in the last ten years and a cooling trend the last few.Even if all the temperature increase over the last century is attributable to human activities, the rise has been relatively modest one of a little over one degree Fahrenheit ,an increase well within natural variations over the last few thousand years. And even then can you tell us what portion of that is man made and then that it is Co2 that is causing it???

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that you can rule out Land Use? UHI effect? Dubious record keeping, The closing of numerous cold weather stations at the end of the cold war? A combination of all of the above? Can you show us the studies that eliminates all of that and points a smoking gun at Co2. Or will you use that there is a consensus among scientist???  Yeah sure

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 35):
ICECAP.US, also hosts a number of well-know global warming deniers and sceptics. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...cecap

Deniers and skeptics. How about Scientist and Climatologist? If they agree with the Man is at fault side of the story they are scientist and if they do not then they are

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 35):
well-know global warming deniers and sceptics

Apparently Alarmist also think that if the fossil fuel companies pay you have an agenda. So if Greenpeace, Sierra Club or governments pay there is no agenda and only truth and enlightenment?  Wow!




Okay this one is right from the Alarmist website . Untouched by skeptic hands. See the decline. Hard to miss

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:38 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 38):
So if Greenpeace, Sierra Club or governments pay there is no agenda and only truth and enlightenment

I for one am not in the habit of quoting those sites since their contents could be compromised.

I hope your "government" does not include any (or all of the) government agencies?

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 38):
Okay this one is right from the Alarmist website

Ok, I figured this one out, this UK academic institution is an Alarmist institution. May I continue referencing to it all the same?


Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 38):
See the decline. Hard to miss

Depends on the smoothing used. From the same site: (includes data up to Dec 2007)

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/climon/data/themi/n1.gif

http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/climon/data/themi/g17.gif

From the last graph we can quite clearly see the tendency of the averaged global temperature to oscillate at a reasonably regular interval (the "reds" and the "blues" are not randomly organized), and that the present trend fits that larger picture quite well. The latest "dip" was a small one due to that one strikingly anomalous year 1998. I know of no other explanation here than the regular storing/releasing of heat by the various oceanic oscillations.

Perhaps we'll remember this discussion when the yearly interval trend is firmly upwards globally again?
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:28 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 39):
Perhaps we'll remember this discussion when the yearly interval trend is firmly upwards globally again?

But that still does not answer

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 38):
the rise has been relatively modest one of a little over one degree Fahrenheit ,an increase well within natural variations over the last few thousand years. And even then can you tell us what portion of that is man made and then that it is Co2 that is causing it???

Can you prove without a shadow of a doubt that you can rule out Land Use? UHI effect? Dubious record keeping, The closing of numerous cold weather stations at the end of the cold war? A combination of all of the above? Can you show us the studies that eliminates all of that and points a smoking gun at Co2. Or will you use that there is a consensus among scientist???

And I have never met or heard of a scientist called "consensus"

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 39):
From the last graph we can quite clearly see the tendency of the averaged global temperature to oscillate at a reasonably regular interval

And the last graph continues to show that no year since 1998 has passed it in temps and the last five have flattened and then went down. ANd also why does the Northern graph I pulled of the site show a definate down trend and the one you did show temps still rising in januuary when we had the coldest jan in a long time? Meanwhile the whole time the Co2 rise has been steadily going up. Maybe it actually is the Sun?
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 7:39 pm



Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 40):
ANd also why does the Northern graph I pulled of the site show a definate down trend and the one you did show temps still rising in januuary when we had the coldest jan in a long time

One of the remaining great mysteries of our times that I for one can't crack. But that I know it was predicted a relatively long time ago that global warming would affect first high Northern latitudes in winter. Locations that were predicted to become "hot" have done just so in recent years and in the correct times. If you do not live in those parts, chances are you'd be initially less affected.
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:09 pm



Quoting AverageUser (Reply 39):
Ok, I figured this one out, this UK academic institution is an Alarmist institution. May I continue referencing to it all the same?

Well lets look at the hadley Center review for 2006.


1. Is the Hadley Centre world leading?
The Hadley Centre is currently regarded as a world leading climate modelling centre.
No other single body has a comparable breadth of climate change science, data analysis
and modelling, or has made the same contribution to global climate science and
current knowledge.
The UK Government’s role in international climate change policy has been strongly
supported by Hadley’s world leading status and Hadley’s stakeholders value this
international standing.

Okay as for Climate modeling we know that a model is only as good as the Data put in to it. And since there has been no rise in overall temps in the last five years I wonder if the models predicted that or did they point to the Sky like an Atlas V rocket? And since moisture is the number one greenhouse gas and there is no way to tell how much moisture is in the air and how much rain is falling on the planet at any one time I guess they have to Guess what that is?

2. Are Hadley’s customers and stakeholders satisfied?
Hadley delivers high levels of customer satisfaction. The materials they provide are
generally considered to be of a high standard and fit for purpose.

This one I really love. Are the customers happy and satisfied? Who is paying the bill to keep this people happily employed and does their results tilt towards what the "client wants" and if not does the funding dry up??


3. Is the Hadley Centre providing value for money?
This review has concluded that the Hadley Centre is providing value for money. We
have qualitatively assessed alternative options for delivery and conclude that there is no
other credible means of meeting the requirement as cost-effectively. We have
identified some opportunities for efficiency gains for consideration by Hadley,
although it has proved difficult to assess these formally.

Once again the all important funding. If there is no man made GW disaster does a big chunk of funding dry up??

Quoting AverageUser (Reply 39):
Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 38):
Okay this one is right from the Alarmist website

Ok, I figured this one out, this UK academic institution is an Alarmist institution. May I continue referencing to it all the same?

Okay, Agreed that I overstepped that one. But it is the same as NASA or NOAA in that it is only as good as the people leading it and the agenda they put forth. NASA and NOAA have people on both sides and to me they are being paid to do the work of the taxpayers and not what certain individuals pick up as there personal or political crusade. They still have an aganda and that is funding. Whether the money comes fron XOM, Greenpeace or Big Government a grant usually has something attached to it.


I know that all scientists are not money grubbing Dr Evils for the most part but money is what makes the scientific world go round and round. As the line from the Right stuff goes, " No bucks, No Buck Rogers"


And also the Met office gets its data from the Hadley Center. Why does it have a page that only shows pro man made warming news. If it is a governmnet site should not be unbiased and not have an agenda and show both sides of the story?

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/myths/index.html

Why does it have a whole section that trys to debunk skeptics?

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/corporate/pressoffice/myths/index.html

Should not a government funded site not have a neutral agenda and show both sides of the story? Political agendas at there best.
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:19 pm

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/research/hadleycentre/models/modeldata/HadCM2_IS92a_ts_SAT_ann_20002100.gif



Okay here is the Actual Hadley projection for the next 100 years. While not quite and Atlas V rocket it is quite the Climb rate. Now look at the rate for the 2005 to 2010 area and compare it to the other graph I had posted from their site. One is going up (the Model) and one The actual temps) from the Hadley Center is flatlined and actually going down at the end. It looks like the model cannot even predict the first 10 years let alone 100 years.

The

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 42):
Hadley%u2019s customers and stakeholders

Should be asking for their money back
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4holer
Posts: 2733
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 1:47 am

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:13 pm

Ironically, here's an article I just happened to come across the same day I waded thru this thread.

A noted "skeptic" and his point of view.
http://timespublications.com/feb08-feature2.asp

Nothing earth shattering, but just a plea for open, non-McCarthyistic debate.
Ghosts appear and fade away.....................
 
User avatar
n229nw
Posts: 2028
Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 4:19 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:32 pm



Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):

Quoting NWA742 (Reply 5):
....all of this nonsense revolves around cult, delusion, fallacy, etc.

If so then I recommend you never fly in airplanes...

great post!

Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 14):
Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
Do you suppose scientists are publicity hounds?

How, then, do they get research funds?

All academics and scientists need to be funded. But their conclusions are free in general when the funding comes from universities and scientific foundations. Their results should be reproducible, allow predictions, and fit other criteria for good science (which they do for the most part).

The real meddling and agendas have come from politicians (NOT scientists) around the Bush administration and oil lobbyists--who have changed wordings, pressured "their" scientists to find what they wanted them to find, etc., even threatened to fire people. I know of no such coersions among mainstream scientists who do believe that global warming is a human consequence, only among the skeptics. (By the way, this meddling by the Bush administration is not just about global warming. This administration is the first ever to have interfered in various scientific endeavors in order to pressure scientists in several areas because of religious or economic interests. It is a horrifically dangerous precedent.)

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 37):
Once again with the typical alarmist response. If you do not like the fugures attack the source.

Of course, the deniers never attack sources and messengers like Al Gore... (Gore may by a hypocrite, and he personally isn't a scientist. But that doesn't in any way invalidate most of his claims gotten FROM scientists.)

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 38):
Apparently Alarmist also think that if the fossil fuel companies pay you have an agenda. So if Greenpeace, Sierra Club or governments pay there is no agenda and only truth and enlightenment?

Those organizations do have agendas. But Greenpeace and the Sierra club don't fund scientists really, they campaign based on the findings of others. And governments tend to have agendas (conscious or unconscious) AGAINST finding global warming is bad, since it will force spending and difficult economic decisions... So this is basically an irrelevant point. Strike 1...
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:48 am

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 42):
If it is a governmnet site should not be unbiased and not have an agenda and show both sides of the story?

The "other side" have their handful of scientists with opposing views, and a healthy number of followers who mainly hail from the U.S., and a lot of virtual blogosphere space where e.g. to visualize data and results provided by other ("alarmist", "government") institutions. Will that not be quite enough, and in accordance with the principles of free speech? What more do you want?

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 43):
Okay here is the Actual Hadley projection for the next 100 years. While not quite and Atlas V rocket it is quite the Climb rate

Speaking of rates, there are valleys and peaks in the UK prediction, just like there are valleys and peaks in the recorded temperature history by the same institution. If you question global warming on the account of a downward rate now, would you be happy to be questioned back hard when the rate will reverse?

[Edited 2008-02-26 02:00:39]
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:11 am



Quoting 4holer (Reply 44):
A noted "skeptic" and his point of view.
http://timespublications.com/feb08-feature2.asp

Nothing earth shattering, but just a plea for open, non-McCarthyistic debate.


[Professor Robert C.] Balling has acknowledged that he had received $408,000 in research funding from the fossil fuel industry over the last decade (of which his University takes 50% for overhead). Contributors include ExxonMobil, the British Coal Corporation, Cyprus Minerals and OPEC.


http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Robert_C._Balling
 
Elite
Posts: 2296
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:31 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:17 am



Quoting AndesSMF (Reply 22):
Yes, it is complicated and remains so.

Agreed. We THINK we know a lot about the world and that our technology is very advanced, but in reality our knowledge is minuscule.
 
AverageUser
Posts: 1824
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 6:21 pm

RE: Global Warming Alarmist Strike Again

Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:45 am



Quoting Elite (Reply 48):
our knowledge is minuscule.

I would not say it is minuscule, but a great part of it is directed to doing things the wrong and harmful way.

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